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This is getting way out of hand now. Glad I don't live in Germany and sorry to whoever does.
Are they passing laws that quickly? I'm surprised they're allowed to do this. Also, what "laws" are they defending these actions with?
Are they passing laws that quickly? I'm surprised they're allowed to do this. Also, what "laws" are they defending these actions with?
Dude, that's major broken. Let's hope that someone over there is fighting these politics.
"Hey Jimmy, how do we end violence in the world?"
"I don't know Steve, but if anybody took away my video games I'd figure out a way of bring more to it."
"Hey Jimmy, how do we end violence in the world?"
"I don't know Steve, but if anybody took away my video games I'd figure out a way of bring more to it."
It's almost like shooting virtual people in a game is evil, but killing millions of Jews is just a bit of bad judgement.
C'mon Germany, you of all countries should be a little bit less sensitive to a bit of the old ultra-violence!
C'mon Germany, you of all countries should be a little bit less sensitive to a bit of the old ultra-violence!
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Gamers,
Now I'm fucking pissed off;
Screw you Germany.
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Gamers,
Now I'm fucking pissed off;
Screw you Germany.
Have you heard that the world's supposed to end after seven trumpet blasts? Aren't we up to four now? D:
In all seriousness though, how in the hell is banning WoW supposed to lower crime and violence rates? Don't we know that people who play WoW stay at home?
Can't wait to see who else throws their hat into the "videogams r bad lol" arena.
In all seriousness though, how in the hell is banning WoW supposed to lower crime and violence rates? Don't we know that people who play WoW stay at home?
Can't wait to see who else throws their hat into the "videogams r bad lol" arena.
I love how all the supposedly liberally progressive countries continue to have such an explicitly censorious stance when it comes to videogames.
Okay, I heard, that there are rumors about cancelling some LANs, but that is madness! Why ban Counter Strike? The game is harmless! Only one version released in Germany got a USK 18-rating and that version isn't even popular! Also, one correction to the post: They want to ban Warcraft III, not World of Warcraft.
I begin to hate my home country... Is it already to late to move to Austria?
I begin to hate my home country... Is it already to late to move to Austria?
I don't understand how can anyone really think that banning video games can help stop violence? Is anyone objecting to these insane laws in Germany, or are they all afraid that they'll be sent to the camps?
@n1k0l4:
I got a response to you:
All politicians in Germany are either too stupid or aren't important enough to object. For example recently a politician has written an article about the fact that video games aren't bad. A few days later they found child porn on his computer... Yeah.
Also, those who protest are simply ignored. It is sad, but true...
I got a response to you:
All politicians in Germany are either too stupid or aren't important enough to object. For example recently a politician has written an article about the fact that video games aren't bad. A few days later they found child porn on his computer... Yeah.
Also, those who protest are simply ignored. It is sad, but true...
This is ridiculous.
Pretty soon they'll make Gamers wear yellow controller badges on their arms in public so they can know who are the violent people in society.
Pretty soon they'll make Gamers wear yellow controller badges on their arms in public so they can know who are the violent people in society.
Hmm very strange, the last time they had a cunning plan to take over the world I'm pretty sure there were no games were out.
Ironic that they let people drive as fast as they want on parts of the atuobahn but they think sitting on your ass - or standing waggling - playing games is dangerous.
I'm definitely going over for a trip to drive on the autobahn and get pissed at the beer festivals before they get banned too.
Ironic that they let people drive as fast as they want on parts of the atuobahn but they think sitting on your ass - or standing waggling - playing games is dangerous.
I'm definitely going over for a trip to drive on the autobahn and get pissed at the beer festivals before they get banned too.
I seriously need to get some money and then get out of this country. It's getting more and more ridiculous over here every day and with no alternative to vote for at the end of this year there's no end in sight.
It will be interesting to see how this effects drug rates, considering Germany has the third highest crime and the #1 Drug offences in the world. With all that spare time and money, I wonder how many more people are going to turn to something else to do with their time.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes
@Jim
If you're going to report about it I beg you as a German citizen. At least get a viable source.
First of all. It's true that WoW got some attention from our officials because of it's addictive potential, where they basically said that addictive potential should be factored into the age rating and therefore WoW should get an 18 rating. A step that doesn't seem that stupid to me.
In this case however the game in question was Warcraft 3. Stupid as our officials are they labeled Warcraft 3 (of all games) a "Killer-Game".
It should also be noted that usually the city does not have the right to cancel any events. Our constitution grants us the right to gather freely. You only need a permit if your event is going to happen in the open. (e.g. a demo or something similar) They can however forbid you to use their premises for that event. Just like every other landowner could.
Unfortunately the companies managing those LAN-parties continue to be stupid enough to rent halls that are owned by the cities. All they would need to do is to move on to privately held locations and nobody could forbid them to hold their LAN-parties.
The company in this case was especially stupid because those dumbasses didn't even have a signed contract with the city. They just had a vocal agreement so they can't even sue for contract violation.
Oh and while this is tragic and absolutely stupid, this definatley doesn't affect us more than anything else our stupid officials have done lately. German gamers have been fucked up the ass far worse than this and most of us are no longer willing to take it. There have been demos against this stupid policy and they're getting more frequent every month.
If you're going to report about it I beg you as a German citizen. At least get a viable source.
First of all. It's true that WoW got some attention from our officials because of it's addictive potential, where they basically said that addictive potential should be factored into the age rating and therefore WoW should get an 18 rating. A step that doesn't seem that stupid to me.
In this case however the game in question was Warcraft 3. Stupid as our officials are they labeled Warcraft 3 (of all games) a "Killer-Game".
It should also be noted that usually the city does not have the right to cancel any events. Our constitution grants us the right to gather freely. You only need a permit if your event is going to happen in the open. (e.g. a demo or something similar) They can however forbid you to use their premises for that event. Just like every other landowner could.
Unfortunately the companies managing those LAN-parties continue to be stupid enough to rent halls that are owned by the cities. All they would need to do is to move on to privately held locations and nobody could forbid them to hold their LAN-parties.
The company in this case was especially stupid because those dumbasses didn't even have a signed contract with the city. They just had a vocal agreement so they can't even sue for contract violation.
Oh and while this is tragic and absolutely stupid, this definatley doesn't affect us more than anything else our stupid officials have done lately. German gamers have been fucked up the ass far worse than this and most of us are no longer willing to take it. There have been demos against this stupid policy and they're getting more frequent every month.
@IroN1c: Good luck, man. I know games aren't that important to move away for, but I dunno what else Germany is doing right now and game-banning may be just the tip of the iceberg. =\
As far as I know, the games are not officially banned, but there is a lot of pressure going on because of the "Killerspiel" debates. And yes, I did some research...
German citizen here,
This actually isn't the first case a LAN had to be canceled because of Counter-Strike. There was a similar case a few weeks ago.
The statement that CS and WoW are banned from public viewing however, is not correct. We even have TV-Shows dedicated to WoW (which I think is pretty sad nonetheless) and you can see CS regularly.
I'm pretty sure that if the government would actually ban violent video games, it would cause an outrage, since Germany has one of the biggest, if not THE biggest LAN scene worldwide.
Also, this whole Convention-X-Treme thing has already caused protests. The german government really knows how to piss off its citizens.
Can't wait to get the hell out of here.
This actually isn't the first case a LAN had to be canceled because of Counter-Strike. There was a similar case a few weeks ago.
The statement that CS and WoW are banned from public viewing however, is not correct. We even have TV-Shows dedicated to WoW (which I think is pretty sad nonetheless) and you can see CS regularly.
I'm pretty sure that if the government would actually ban violent video games, it would cause an outrage, since Germany has one of the biggest, if not THE biggest LAN scene worldwide.
Also, this whole Convention-X-Treme thing has already caused protests. The german government really knows how to piss off its citizens.
Can't wait to get the hell out of here.
Breaking news! German school arson. The shooter trained for weeks on the violent videogame Lemmings to learn how to herd people into small areas, and on Black and White to learn how best summon a stream of fire down from the sky.
Germany is in danger of banning... Themselves! But serously, were the fuck is the public? They should be protesting the shit out of this thing!
I don't understand how the people can accept this... how could they elect officials that would bring in this form of censorship?? Given their history, how could they sit idly by and watch this happen.
I'm confused. Warcraft III (managing an army) is viewed as a killer game but World of Warcraft (more personal/you are the character) isn't? Addictive qualities aside, that makes no sense to me.
@Elsa: Not sure how politics work in Germany, but it's possible the currently-elected officials had no mention of gaming until now, and they're still in office. I'm not sure if it's close to or recently has been an election year, but gamers are the minority, and no doubt a good handful of voters believe that games do train people how to kill. I mean, that's more than certainly true here in Americaland for sure.
Then again, these issues matter to us because A) we're gamers and naturally this kind of thing would naturally make us unhappy people and B) this could set a precedent (if it hasn't already; see Australia) and no one wants similar things happening in their country.
@Elsa: Not sure how politics work in Germany, but it's possible the currently-elected officials had no mention of gaming until now, and they're still in office. I'm not sure if it's close to or recently has been an election year, but gamers are the minority, and no doubt a good handful of voters believe that games do train people how to kill. I mean, that's more than certainly true here in Americaland for sure.
Then again, these issues matter to us because A) we're gamers and naturally this kind of thing would naturally make us unhappy people and B) this could set a precedent (if it hasn't already; see Australia) and no one wants similar things happening in their country.
@Elsa
The reason for that is simple. Germany has an aging population. By now 42.5 % of all people in Germany are above the age of 60. Subtract the 19 % of peole below the age of 18 and you have 51 % of the voting public older than 60 . And these people usually all go to vote. If you have so many old coots voting you can expect to have the most conservative and reactionary parties in the ruling position. Or in other words, we are ruled by the stupid old fucks who can't get a hang of the digital "mumbo jumbo". Our justice minister was asked what a "browser" is and of course she didn't know the answer, but you can bet your ass that she was for banning parts of the web.
It's really frustrating and I can understand all the Germans here on Detructoid that say that they want to get the hell out of Germany. I'm actually planning to do this myself as soon as I've finished university. Who knows maybe I'll shake Jim's hand as a newly employed games-developer in a few years. Now I just have to get my hand on one of those bloody greencards.
The reason for that is simple. Germany has an aging population. By now 42.5 % of all people in Germany are above the age of 60. Subtract the 19 % of peole below the age of 18 and you have 51 % of the voting public older than 60 . And these people usually all go to vote. If you have so many old coots voting you can expect to have the most conservative and reactionary parties in the ruling position. Or in other words, we are ruled by the stupid old fucks who can't get a hang of the digital "mumbo jumbo". Our justice minister was asked what a "browser" is and of course she didn't know the answer, but you can bet your ass that she was for banning parts of the web.
It's really frustrating and I can understand all the Germans here on Detructoid that say that they want to get the hell out of Germany. I'm actually planning to do this myself as soon as I've finished university. Who knows maybe I'll shake Jim's hand as a newly employed games-developer in a few years. Now I just have to get my hand on one of those bloody greencards.
Is there a branch of The Pirate party in Germany? They wouldn't ban games.
@Warlock Vaati: Thanks for the insight. I don't know the public opinion about this in Germany, but I don't think people see games as ''murder-simulators'' or whatever. Those damn politicians, what could they be thinking?
As no one is able to talk some sense in to them, they should realize themselfs: Instead of wasting money on banning games and discussing ''killerspiels'' they should use their time and money on fighting crime and drug trade.
Also, what are ''killerspiel''? Is Mario a killerspiel? You get to kill little mushroom-people in it, you know!
@Warlock Vaati: Thanks for the insight. I don't know the public opinion about this in Germany, but I don't think people see games as ''murder-simulators'' or whatever. Those damn politicians, what could they be thinking?
As no one is able to talk some sense in to them, they should realize themselfs: Instead of wasting money on banning games and discussing ''killerspiels'' they should use their time and money on fighting crime and drug trade.
Also, what are ''killerspiel''? Is Mario a killerspiel? You get to kill little mushroom-people in it, you know!
Sorry, no lame joke here about Nazis, or fascists.
This is purely an embarrassing move by politicians who are catering to the knee-jerk whims and moral panic of the frightened masses who are willfully out-of-touch with reality.
There's no point in bothering to build a reasonable, logical, or sound argument with folks who think that way - ultimately it will fall on deaf ears. Scared people will always need a "them" to blame for their own insecurities. It's us against "them" and if you're not with us, you're against us, amiright???
"They" include perceived threats such as the youth, gamers, pornographers, drug users, hedonists, anarchists, communists, terrorists, homosexuals, Muslims, foreigners, the internet, the poor, enemies of the state - anybody who might upset the imaginary status-quo and threaten TEH CHILDRENS.
Social control through fear.
This is purely an embarrassing move by politicians who are catering to the knee-jerk whims and moral panic of the frightened masses who are willfully out-of-touch with reality.
There's no point in bothering to build a reasonable, logical, or sound argument with folks who think that way - ultimately it will fall on deaf ears. Scared people will always need a "them" to blame for their own insecurities. It's us against "them" and if you're not with us, you're against us, amiright???
"They" include perceived threats such as the youth, gamers, pornographers, drug users, hedonists, anarchists, communists, terrorists, homosexuals, Muslims, foreigners, the internet, the poor, enemies of the state - anybody who might upset the imaginary status-quo and threaten TEH CHILDRENS.
Social control through fear.
What's bad is if this ever got worse, what could the German people do? You know, if the government ever decided to start getting really fascist and tunr into an outright tyranny. So glad we have our 2nd Amendment here in the states that lets us, the people, be our government's last check and balance if ever needed. Our founders knew how far government could go, and had some awesome foresight to protect us against it(which hopefully we will NEVER have to use, but it's there in case). Sorry, just thinking out loud.
On topic, I feel sorry for the people affected by this. Government has ZERO BUSINESS in what your entertainment is while in your home, or even at a LAN. Especially when there is ZERO proof that games have hurt anyone, ever.
On topic, I feel sorry for the people affected by this. Government has ZERO BUSINESS in what your entertainment is while in your home, or even at a LAN. Especially when there is ZERO proof that games have hurt anyone, ever.
Take it easy boys.
2009 is a election year and so most politicians are going crazy with suggestions about banning stuff in order to please their voting puplic.
I cant give any examples right now, because im too lazy to search, but american politicians also does many crazy stuff when the elcetion draws near, arent they?
Germany doesnt like violence ^^
But America doesnt like tits
So who wins :D
Also nice text jim.
2009 is a election year and so most politicians are going crazy with suggestions about banning stuff in order to please their voting puplic.
I cant give any examples right now, because im too lazy to search, but american politicians also does many crazy stuff when the elcetion draws near, arent they?
Germany doesnt like violence ^^
But America doesnt like tits
So who wins :D
Also nice text jim.
@Usedtape
There is actually something similar in our constitution. It's Article 20(4)
(freely translated)
"Against everybody who tries to abolish this order [meaning the democratic order] all Germans have the right to resistance, if any other remedy is not possible"
There is actually something similar in our constitution. It's Article 20(4)
(freely translated)
"Against everybody who tries to abolish this order [meaning the democratic order] all Germans have the right to resistance, if any other remedy is not possible"
@MotoRobo: Which is why I mentioned our founding fathers, not the current government. I know of the many, many restrictions placed on gun ownership that are not afforded to the government at all.
Here on Brazil CS also is officially banned , yet you see a CyberCafe with CS around every corner (CS is THE most popular game here) ;still , maybe germans aren't as incompetent as brazilians and the ban may actually happen ...
You need to calm down people!
These where just some isolated incidents in the southern areas, nothing that can be said for the whole country. Some communities and their majors simply don't know what they're doing any more, but we (Germany) will NEVER have laws that forbid playing these games in public. It has been tried, but it simply cannot be enforced.
I'm not happy with most of the things that are happening here right now, but since elections are around the corner, many quick and wrong populist choices are made by the politicians. This will settle down in a couple of weeks.
These where just some isolated incidents in the southern areas, nothing that can be said for the whole country. Some communities and their majors simply don't know what they're doing any more, but we (Germany) will NEVER have laws that forbid playing these games in public. It has been tried, but it simply cannot be enforced.
I'm not happy with most of the things that are happening here right now, but since elections are around the corner, many quick and wrong populist choices are made by the politicians. This will settle down in a couple of weeks.
I saw the idea earlier...
http://img106.imageshack.us/i/ps3controllert.tif/
We will see, but I agree with Echtzeit, it is election time, nobody cares about the truth right now. Why should they? The only people who object are the opposition and they will never vote for them, so it doesn´t matter.
I just think it is sad...
http://img106.imageshack.us/i/ps3controllert.tif/
We will see, but I agree with Echtzeit, it is election time, nobody cares about the truth right now. Why should they? The only people who object are the opposition and they will never vote for them, so it doesn´t matter.
I just think it is sad...
Germany is evidently almost as quick on the uptake as Keith Vaz is. Watch out Bungie, you've only got another four years in the German market before they discover Halo
First: nice picture...yeah...never saw a nazi donald before, but....
Second: Its not nice to connect our generation of Germans with the shit of our ancestors. yes...everytime when I play f.e CoD4 and I pwn those noobs they start asking me if I am a German (KrazyKRAUT) and then they say NAZI..nazi and nazi again wtf...thats not fucking nice. Some ppl still think that Hitler reigns here...so stop that shit. Its not funny anymore to connect the Federal Republic of Germany with a swastika.
Third: Like my other folks already said: Yes, its election time.They do that to get some votes from the anxious parents. And because of the school shooting 1 month ago.
Circumstances (drunken daddies,bullied kiddies,mistreatments,no future and the gun in daddies bedside cabinet) let ppl do such a cruel thing, not games.Maybe games could be a small part of this type of escape ...but "John Rambo" or "The Rock" or 10 minutes "Let the bodies hit the floor" by Drowning Pool could be a catalyzer too.
Here in Germany they rate a Medal of Honor game, which was rated T in the USA, with 18+. Or censor games...omfg censorship like in China or Cuba!!!
And now they ban CS in public LANs and eSport events. To avoid shit like that and because the killer played CS. Like you read on Destructoid already, they even wanna cut the trade of Austrian game websites to Germany, because there is no censorship in Austria for games and Germans order always the uncut version of a game (f.e. Resident Evil 4) from Austria to play it in the German language.(For the same stupids which thing that Hitler(which is a dead bastard) still reigns in Germany, Austria and Germany got the same language)
They better should get a harder controlling system or higher penalties to seller when they sell a 18+ game to a 12 yrs dude, but do not punish the healthy gamers (like me and you) who see in video games no threat!!!
Sry for my bad grammar.
Second: Its not nice to connect our generation of Germans with the shit of our ancestors. yes...everytime when I play f.e CoD4 and I pwn those noobs they start asking me if I am a German (KrazyKRAUT) and then they say NAZI..nazi and nazi again wtf...thats not fucking nice. Some ppl still think that Hitler reigns here...so stop that shit. Its not funny anymore to connect the Federal Republic of Germany with a swastika.
Third: Like my other folks already said: Yes, its election time.They do that to get some votes from the anxious parents. And because of the school shooting 1 month ago.
Circumstances (drunken daddies,bullied kiddies,mistreatments,no future and the gun in daddies bedside cabinet) let ppl do such a cruel thing, not games.Maybe games could be a small part of this type of escape ...but "John Rambo" or "The Rock" or 10 minutes "Let the bodies hit the floor" by Drowning Pool could be a catalyzer too.
Here in Germany they rate a Medal of Honor game, which was rated T in the USA, with 18+. Or censor games...omfg censorship like in China or Cuba!!!
And now they ban CS in public LANs and eSport events. To avoid shit like that and because the killer played CS. Like you read on Destructoid already, they even wanna cut the trade of Austrian game websites to Germany, because there is no censorship in Austria for games and Germans order always the uncut version of a game (f.e. Resident Evil 4) from Austria to play it in the German language.(For the same stupids which thing that Hitler(which is a dead bastard) still reigns in Germany, Austria and Germany got the same language)
They better should get a harder controlling system or higher penalties to seller when they sell a 18+ game to a 12 yrs dude, but do not punish the healthy gamers (like me and you) who see in video games no threat!!!
Sry for my bad grammar.
Well, well. First they take perfectly fine video games away from us, the German gamers, then we raise our voices and show that German citizens care about freedom and democracy, and then blogs from other countries don't do their research and make us all look like we love censorship, just because the parliament is going nuts. Oh and now we're all Nazis, too. How original, where did you come up with that creativ concept, genius?
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