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Well at the same time the United States has the same problem. We let movies tackle any subject they want but as soon as there is sex or the death of innocents in a video game it is considered wrong and that the developer is "sick" or twisted. I am very surprised that Faux news has not picked up on this scene in Modern Warfare 2 yet. But to answer the question you pose, no it is not right that Germany decides what the consumer plays and how they play their game.
IW's scheme to use MW2 as a vessel to transform average gamers into an Alquaeda sleeper cells has been successfully thwarted by the most open minded country in the world. I doubt anyone on this site (who's opinion counts) thinks that the content-restriction and censorship of M rated games is honestly protecting anybody. This move is, however, an extremely predictable one on Germany's part--and yeah, I'll expect Australia to follow suit.
I'm a little disappointed in people's unwillingness to accept Video Games as a legitimate story-telling medium. I have almost no doubt that this decision is based upon woeful ignorance; The Ratings Board in Germany probably assumed that players recieved "points" for killing civilians or something ridiculous, which is why they are forcing their game over policy. They can't or don't want to see that this is more than just a brainless, simple game. This is a narrative that the player is being thrust into, and any reprehensible behavior is more telling of the player than of the developer.
Still it is a shame that the State take the moral decision for you, but yeah, that's better than nothing I guess.
My sister married a German and so regularly visits Germany to see his family, and on her most recent return my family was discussing gun control and ownership. I live in backwoods Georgia, where hunting and fishing is all routine, and she grew up in the exact same background as myself. Point being, she's just as nutso stupid about the topic of violence and guns as the German government seems to be, and I can't understand why. When I brought up the fact that there was a violent attack in Germany the last time she was there, and that the police took the suspect down with, gasp, guns, she turned from intelligent debate to insulting me personally, and that seems to be the typical response. Once the bleeding hearts that think with emotions realize the facts are on your side, suddenly they switch their aim of argument from the simple truth to something sure to pluck the heartstrings of all. Germany, I think, has a long history of violence, and this might be their feeble attempt to make it look like their government's accomplishing something in the fight against random, brutal acts of bloodshed. Protip: it's not working.
I don't think people, particularily Americans, understand how the Australian ratings board works.
It's not like they block anything controversial - GTA games get through without a blink, and they are all about the maiming of civs.
The core issue that the ratings board has are two specific taboos:
- Dismemberment of real people (not zombies/creatures etc)
- Real World Drug Use (Being able to inject heroin for stamina)
Case in Point - LFD2 had dismemberment, Fallout 3 had real world drug use. Dark Sector had dismemberment. Etc.
Everything else is fair game. Modern Warfare 2 got the go ahead months back without any issue at all.
It's not like they block anything controversial - GTA games get through without a blink, and they are all about the maiming of civs.
The core issue that the ratings board has are two specific taboos:
- Dismemberment of real people (not zombies/creatures etc)
- Real World Drug Use (Being able to inject heroin for stamina)
Case in Point - LFD2 had dismemberment, Fallout 3 had real world drug use. Dark Sector had dismemberment. Etc.
Everything else is fair game. Modern Warfare 2 got the go ahead months back without any issue at all.
I don't favor censorship, but this particular case is a lot better than it could have been. I don't think the experience has really been harmed that much.
@ Syvergy
You contradicted yourself sir
Dismemberment of real people (not zombies/creatures etc) L4d 2 has dismemberment of zombies. But I think I get what you mean.
You contradicted yourself sir
Dismemberment of real people (not zombies/creatures etc) L4d 2 has dismemberment of zombies. But I think I get what you mean.
Getting my copy in the mail tomorrow. I've got alot of work to do now though, so im trying not to think about it.
I think they are right to do so, I am 15 and my parents let me play anything I want similarly all friends can play anything they want. There is a conatation with games as being for children, and children do play them. I am not a retarded chav, but many kids playing the game are, and they do need to be censored from this kinda stuff.
@KrazyKraut
HAHA, really dude? Have a sense of humor. Your government is WAY too strict when it comes to gaming laws and regulations.
And you shouldn't be talking with a name like "Kraut" Which is derogatory slang toward a german....Nazi.
HAHA, really dude? Have a sense of humor. Your government is WAY too strict when it comes to gaming laws and regulations.
And you shouldn't be talking with a name like "Kraut" Which is derogatory slang toward a german....Nazi.
@SPNKr
He gave a bad example there, yeah. L4D2 was brought to censors' scrutiny for the fact that you could kill police (riot cops in The Parish) and this is against Aussie rules, apparently.
He gave a bad example there, yeah. L4D2 was brought to censors' scrutiny for the fact that you could kill police (riot cops in The Parish) and this is against Aussie rules, apparently.
Iīm one lucky person who has gotten his copy early and I can say it was a very intense scene. I felt horrorfied by what happend on the screen and did so even the second time I played the level, discovering little scenes I had missed on my first playthrough. I made the decision not to shoot the civilians, and I felt very good about that decision. In the level I encountered a situation in which I saw a bleeding man crwaling away from me and eventually dying. In this situation I had think about shooting him to end his pain or letting him bleed to death. Choosing the second option felt like the right thing, but reflex killing a police officer who shot at me, while he was trying to defend the civilians, felt horrible. Later in the level you have to kill a lot of policemen which I found to be annoying, since the element of coice is taken away from you. Killing the first Police officer was an unessecary act of violence from my side, since I could have ducked into cover and waited for one of the terrorists to kill him. He would get killed anyway, but at least I wouldnīt have been th one killing him.
That said Iīm glad I had to choose what to do. I would imagine the scene would have made a much lesser impact on me if I the option to be bad had been taken away from me. After all the good decision I had made had not been a decision but a mechanic of the game.
That said Iīm glad I had to choose what to do. I would imagine the scene would have made a much lesser impact on me if I the option to be bad had been taken away from me. After all the good decision I had made had not been a decision but a mechanic of the game.
we've been killing billions upon billions of humans in video games for years now, what difference does it make now?
Although I would prefer it if gamers had the choice to kill and simply chose not to it's not so bad. Yes it completely takes away the point of playing through the scene in the first place but at least it's not banned.
@ Jon B
Ah i was not aware that was their reasoning I though it had to do with the sheer amount of blood.
@ Syvergy
No it does not... That would be pretty awesome and ridiculous.
Ah i was not aware that was their reasoning I though it had to do with the sheer amount of blood.
@ Syvergy
No it does not... That would be pretty awesome and ridiculous.
Germany will always have an issue with this, I can only assume it has something to do with how the world views them and that they want to show how they have cracked down on anything "evil". Australia is going to unscrew the weird 15 age rating limit thing eventually (well, hopefully), but like Syvergy said they only have issues with Drugs and gratuitous violence.
Also, isn't this scene skippable? Or is it those darn people who know it can be skipped, but jump all over it anyway just to complain for complainings sake that are the problem?
Also, isn't this scene skippable? Or is it those darn people who know it can be skipped, but jump all over it anyway just to complain for complainings sake that are the problem?
Aaaaawwww poor Germans. Having to order abroad for the gazillionth time to get the proper experience. Well just be glad they're "just" censoring the game.
Modern Warfare 2 should've really pushed the envelope and indocrinated your character so much in the terrorist groups beliefs that it made you WANT to shoot the "innocent" people who obviously aren't innocent to the group that's randomly shooting up their airport.
@generic purple turtle
So what, horror movies shouldn't have gore too, because some parents are stupid and show horror movie to their kids?
So what, horror movies shouldn't have gore too, because some parents are stupid and show horror movie to their kids?
Better to have this compromise than a straight ban, though censorship is inherently stupid regardless - what's australia doing about this scene?
@Danielzilla - huh?
@Danielzilla - huh?
"Should our morality be decided for us in all versions of the game?"
Stupid moronic internet statement. Because your morality should determine the German and Australian government's morality? Disagreeing is one thing but whining is another.
Stupid moronic internet statement. Because your morality should determine the German and Australian government's morality? Disagreeing is one thing but whining is another.
I'm playing through the game at the moment and I can honestly say this part is not disturbing in the least. I was expecting to be affected by it, but it's just not very powerful. Being restricted to walking pace means you lose immersion from the game enough that it's not emotionslly engaging, and I found myself shooting civis just as I do in GTA4.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fucking cool sequence and I'm really glad it's in there. It just didn't give me chills like I thought it might.
[The game as a whole is fucking awesome btw! Dual wielded auto pistols ftw!]
Don't get me wrong, it's a fucking cool sequence and I'm really glad it's in there. It just didn't give me chills like I thought it might.
[The game as a whole is fucking awesome btw! Dual wielded auto pistols ftw!]
I still don't see why we want our games to "make statements" and be "cinematic".
Can't we spin stuff like this of into another category, something like Interactive Cinematic Art?
Can't we spin stuff like this of into another category, something like Interactive Cinematic Art?
@Deny Everything
"Because your morality should determine the German and Australian government's morality?"
No they should have the choice to either skip the scene or not shoot anyone. The key word here is choice and no one here is saying that anyone should have to shoot anyone but everyone should have the choice to do so.
"Because your morality should determine the German and Australian government's morality?"
No they should have the choice to either skip the scene or not shoot anyone. The key word here is choice and no one here is saying that anyone should have to shoot anyone but everyone should have the choice to do so.
Autumn: Dual wield auto Pistols = Inacurate waste of time. Canīt kill someone as soon as heīs more then 3 meters away from you.
I'm sure Jack Thompson and Fox News will be all over this about 8 months after it's released...they're timely like that. Tough if it's so easy to take out of the game, one wonders why they didn't put it in a kind of "hardcore" mode so that those with moral ambiguity about it might be spared the soul searching...
I live in Australia, and you always read stories about any type of bad thing that happens in other countries and think, "shit, must suck to live in THAT country!" But now i do live in THAT country, and sure enough, it sucks. Though i think our MW2 is un-touched. So score one for us!
"Stupid moronic internet statement. Because your morality should determine the German and Australian government's morality? Disagreeing is one thing but whining is another."
You have made yourself sound like an idiot and a prick. Well done.
It's not the government's place to have or enforce morality. Simple as that.
You have made yourself sound like an idiot and a prick. Well done.
It's not the government's place to have or enforce morality. Simple as that.
So, iīm german and let me a few things clear:
The companys,like Activision in this case, decide by themselves how much a game will be censored. If Activision thinks theyīll only get a 18+ rating if they censor the Airport level like they did, itīs their choice only. Even if MW2 would not have been rated, Activison could sell it here, though without a rating, there would be the risk that the game could be banned for minors.
For example: EAīs Dead Space wasnīt censored in any way here and it was rated 18+, it isnīt banned or anything like that.
Neither the government nor the ratings board (the USK) force the publishers to censor their games.
The companys,like Activision in this case, decide by themselves how much a game will be censored. If Activision thinks theyīll only get a 18+ rating if they censor the Airport level like they did, itīs their choice only. Even if MW2 would not have been rated, Activison could sell it here, though without a rating, there would be the risk that the game could be banned for minors.
For example: EAīs Dead Space wasnīt censored in any way here and it was rated 18+, it isnīt banned or anything like that.
Neither the government nor the ratings board (the USK) force the publishers to censor their games.
@CRKFIEND
Only for you,
10 easy steps to become a nazi too!
-dont accept any criticism! They are wrong! Allways!
-wave your Flags all the time!
-tink your nation is the best of the world and care a shit about others!
-dont ever question anything wrong your goverment does ---> everything is fine
-the press/media is always right!!!
-hail your conquering troops in foreign countrys animated by patriotism! They protect you and your loved ones to live free in Naziland!!!
-there is only one true way, that of your contrys!
-ignore killing civilians, thats not your problem to be dealt with!
This is far away! Anyway, who cares, your not the one who pulls the trigger right?!
-be a total ignorant duche
-did i mention to wave your flags all the time?
Spotet any similarities? Hail to you my comrade in arms! Now your a total legitime Nazi! Your welcome!
-ignore
Only for you,
10 easy steps to become a nazi too!
-dont accept any criticism! They are wrong! Allways!
-wave your Flags all the time!
-tink your nation is the best of the world and care a shit about others!
-dont ever question anything wrong your goverment does ---> everything is fine
-the press/media is always right!!!
-hail your conquering troops in foreign countrys animated by patriotism! They protect you and your loved ones to live free in Naziland!!!
-there is only one true way, that of your contrys!
-ignore killing civilians, thats not your problem to be dealt with!
This is far away! Anyway, who cares, your not the one who pulls the trigger right?!
-be a total ignorant duche
-did i mention to wave your flags all the time?
Spotet any similarities? Hail to you my comrade in arms! Now your a total legitime Nazi! Your welcome!
-ignore
"It's not the government's place to have or enforce morality. Simple as that."
Well aid sir. Well said.
Well aid sir. Well said.
@eggdog14 I was suggesting the game would've been even better and gotten even more press if it were literally just a terrorist recruitment tool. I don't know at this point I'm just incoherently rambling because I'm so sick of hearing about this game. I didn't think the first one was fun or interesting and I don't think this one will be either. I'm really impressed with the "bad publicity" that the game has drummed up for itself though. Excellent work, marketing people.
Wow. Why do post about Germany always bring out the cynicism, ignorance, and outright douchism in everyone? Nobody gets this enraged about Aussie news.
Oh wait that's right, somebody said the word "Nazi". Awesome. Thanks guy.
Oh wait that's right, somebody said the word "Nazi". Awesome. Thanks guy.
Foolish decision on IW's part to include a scene like this in a major mainstream game. Inciteful and immature.
It's better than taking out the scene altogether, but damn if I'm sick of hearing about governments censoring games. Is Germany really that different from us that they need their violence watered-down?
The fact of the matter is that censorship is wrong, especially in a country as developed as Germany. As you guys have stated before, it's even worse because they probably haven't even tested the game to see if the player is rewarded for killing innocents, or what this level has to do with the rest of the game. All they see is civilians being killed and they assume that this is somehow training us to kill. I won't argue that games don't desensitize us, because they do, but to assume they make us all into killers like Germany and Australia are so certain they do, is just ridiculous. Fuck that form of thinking and fuck double standards against gaming.
You know what would have been a cooler edit for the level? As soon as you shoot a civilian, your whole terrorist squad gets pwned by GSG-9, then a game over screen lol.
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