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GDC 09: Prince of Persia producer takes responsibility photo

Prince of Persia producer Ben Mattes has taken responsibility for the "no death" aspect of last year's game. Defending the franchise reboot against complaints that the game was too easy thanks to Elika being able to save you from any sort of death, Mattes did concede that he might have swung the pendulum a bit too far into "casual" territory.

"I guess I made the mistake of projecting my own attitudes," claimed Mattes. "I believed that, as a consumer base, the gaming industry had evolved to the point where they were punishing themselves for their failures… The idea with the Elika mechanic was [that] if you were a really good player, a single fall -- when she had to pull you up -- would be devastating thing because it ruined your perfect run.

"We can’t continue to punish players for not being super leet haxxors but we have to do enough of that so that the guys on NeoGAF [hardcore message board gamers] won’t sell the game back."

Brilliant. Now who was the genius that decided to try and do nearly everything in the game with one button so that the Prince didn't do what he was supposed to do 50% of the time? Quite frankly he's the one I'd like to punch in the balls for making PoP so much worse than previous games in the series.


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27 comments | showing # 1 to 27

ShadowKirby's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:09
ShadowKirby
Somebody trying something different with game mechanics!
Quick! We must stop him from changing status quo so we can only get games that are all the same and that those "casual" abominations cannot play.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:14
Jim Sterling
ShadowKirby:

Definite good point. However, simply doing something different doesn't matter if you don't do it well. I personally didn't care much about the "no die" stuff, but Ubi's decision to put everything on one button simply failed.
etirflita's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:19
etirflita
The "no dying" was perfectly legitimate except during the boss fights. Aside from those fights it was just a prettied-up checkpoint system that kept you immersed in the game.
etirflita's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:30
etirflita
As for the controls- It feels like Assassin's Creed of Persia. The gameplay was less of a puzzle like the previous trilogy and more simplified in order for the platforming to appear intuitive, but games like Mario have just one button to jump and still impress based on the simplicity and fun of their platforming. I can see why Ubi would have tried to make the gameplay more of a subconscious thing seeing how the most fun of Assassin's Creed was the platforming/exploration.
Slique's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:39
Slique
The 'death' mechanic didn't bother me whatsoever. It was quick, wonderfully smooth and kept the player immersed in the game. Sure, it made things a tad easier, but it also encourged you to explore more without worrying about being forced back to an older checkpoint.

I do agree that it should have been removed for fights though, seeing as they are generally pretty far apart.
NateDawgK2's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:42
NateDawgK2
I agree - the no-die aspect was fine with me
but the controls were more than lacking - and actually the no-die aspect made up for it - because if hit A and the prince did something other than he was supposed to and you feel to your death - no wait - you dont die
I felt the no-die was a make up for sloppy game controls
icarus's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:44
icarus
"Now who was the genius that decided to try and do nearly everything in the game with one button so that the Prince didn't do what he was supposed to do 50% of the time? Quite frankly he's the one I'd like to punch in the balls for making PoP so much worse than previous games in the series."

I know early on I had a similar problem because I expected the controls to be similar to the older PoP games. For example, you used to need to manually shift your position on a pole after you jumped to it, but in the new PoP game you would automatically swing 180 degrees after you jump to a pole (presumably to make the transition from pole to pole more fluid). Once I realized that certain steps had been streamlined, the controls actually made a lot of sense and I thought it was an enjoyable game.

As far as the "no dying" feature, I never had a problem with it, and I never could understand how people thought it made the game any easier than being able to simply reverse time and undo a mistake.
TheToiletDuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 08:59
TheToiletDuck
I felt i wasn't playing the game, i was watching it. One big quicktime event with no consequences.

Like the people above, i dont have a problem with being saved from falling, but i DO have a problem with being saved from everything the Boss does to me.
JamnOnTheOne's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 09:00
JamnOnTheOne
If you want harder, download the DLC. The jumps are harder, timing is harder, the "hit x to survive" button in combat is much faster, and when Elika saves you you lose up to 2-3 minutes of gaming...not 5-10 seconds.

When people complained about the "no death" thing, I always wondered what they would have rathered to have. I "died" over 100 times in completing PoP (no xbox cheevo for me). I think I would have bothered to finish the game had I had to see a "you are dead: continue/quit" screen every time I mis-timed a jump or something.
JerinsFury's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 09:04
JerinsFury
I honestly thought there was nothing wrong the Elika mechanic. She acts exactly like the Sands of Time, but as a woman. The game was still plenty challenging, and the battles are still gorgeous and cinematic.
Satsumomo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 09:04
Satsumomo
It was just replacing the magical teleporting to a safe spot that other games have. Without having to go through a load screen. Elika didn't make the game easier at all, all games today don't have lives/continues so it's the exact same game as the rest.
Kaspar's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 09:46
Kaspar
How the fuck is instant death recovery "too easy"?

They should take responsibility for a boring game and not something that doesn't have anything to do with it being good or bad..
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 10:09
Chronic Logic
CAN IT GET MORE CASUAL?!

Yes it can, all the enemy you kill aren't dead, they just teleport to prison.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 10:17
Jim Sterling
My problem with the "no death" shit was the fact that it was only there to cover Ubisoft's tracks. Many of the deaths I suffered were either due to the Prince's rubbish controls or some shitty trial-and-error BS. The Elika stuff was there so that trial-and-error gameplay could be employed without frustrating the player. That's not some bold design choice -- that's simply lazy design.
loki d20's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 10:43
loki d20
I had no issues with the no death concept in the battles since later in the game it usually meant your opponent suddenly popped back up to full health and extended the whole battle. I wasn't too keen on how the combat method myself, where each button performed one type of move. Especially since as you progressed your opponents oftentimes became immune to one attack or another, not including when they went into a stance that required you use one type of attack to break through. Even worse was that as you progressed your ability to perform those long combos dwindled since the mobs ended up recovering after the third or forth attack. This just infuriated me that I pretty much ended up using the exact same short combo throughout a single battle.
wastedyears's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 11:27
wastedyears
The only things I didn't like about it was the 'Sonic the Hedgehog' sections where you had to avoid obstacles while running up the side of the buildings. And the boss battles really sucked.
Usedtabe's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 11:30
Usedtabe
Just got this game from gamefly. Played through a couple of levels, and sent it back. Just like Assassins Creed, I could tell how repetitive and boring it was going to be early on. The whole "no death" mechanic didn't really bother me as some of the jumps seemed unclear. What was really annoying was the jump,jump,jump,button-mash boss fight, jump,jump,jump formula.
smang's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 11:56
smang
wierd, i seem to disagree with everyone here! the game was pretty easy, (1000/1000 points for me proves that) but i still enjoyed it - i found the story and writing to be top nate. i mean notch.
The White Light's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 11:56
The White Light
Hmm, I don't give a shit about the Elika saving system, but I do care that they dumbed down the gameplay to a glorified quick time event.
Shirley Temple's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 12:00
Shirley Temple
Game is utter garbage.
Wintersocks's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 12:02
Wintersocks
It was an overall good game, but felt more like Assassins Creed minus real open world. I really liked he many boss fights, but the combat got rather repetitive. I also would have enjoyed more fast paced parcour sections.

Oh and the excuse of a final boss: terrible, all that build against a laughably easy boss.
loki d20's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 12:51
loki d20
@smang: I don't think anyone dislikes the game overall, especially from the perspective of having a great voice actor like Nolan North (I'm sure I'm not the only one who got your meaning there) and some nice one to two-liners throw in the game. It's that simplicity of the combat and the lack of actual skill since it's really hard to not hit the right button between jumps. They're only talking about gameplay, whereas the rest overall seems to have been enjoyed. I personally loved how they ended the game, best credit scroll I've ever seen.

@Wintersocks: Yeah, I hate boss fights that are just tedious rather than difficult.
Woland's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 13:53
Woland
The not-dying mechanic I have no problem with.

The story, characters and gameplay however are complete and total balls.

Horrible piece of shit, that game.
Charlie X's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 19:04
Charlie X
Yeah, the no-dying was hardly the worst thing here. It was actually nice for a seemless experience without reloading or starting from checkpoints. Like most of the runny/jumpy games I fall to my death. A lot. The removal of 'death' helped that, but there was a lot of room for improvement in the combat more than anything else. The rest was alright.
Ronsauce's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/25/2009 20:58
Ronsauce
The lack of dying wasn't a problem at all as others have pointed out; it's just streamlined checkpoint system. My beef was that the game felt like it SHOULD have encouraged exploration, but there really wasn't any to be found. It felt so mechanical in where you could jump and what you could climb on. I never felt like "If I can just make this jump... Sweet! Let's see what I found!"...but rather, I felt like it was always super obvious where I could engage the quicktime events. And I say quicktime events because that's really all it felt like. The way the Prince snapped to surfaces really made it feel too predetermined. I really tried to finish the game, but it was easily one of the most boring gaming experiences I've had.
Ocified-Xboxer's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/01/2009 17:36
Ocified-Xboxer
I didn't mind the "no death" Elika saves...If I had any major gripes they would be that the combat/combo trees were a little too simple, and that the amount of enemies was far too low. The platforming could have been more in the SoT area instead of one button for all shit....But overall I enjoyed the game. That said I did sell it after I beat it, and have no interest in the DLC since it is overpriced and not nearly long enough playtime-wise (from what I've read). I look forward to the next game though.
Solid Squirrel's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/21/2009 07:05
Solid Squirrel
I know I'm coming in about three months late to this, but that's because I just got the game a few weeks ago, and frankly I think it's a worthy successor to SoT. It is like someone mentioned simply taking the rewind feature out and replacing it with Elika. It's not a "no death" mechanic, it's a clever way to keep the game moving. No reload times, just a jump back to the last safe area you were on before you screwed up. And it only helps slowly but surely to increase the awareness of Elika and the Prince's bond together.

As for the arguments about boss/enemy battles, I don't recall a whole hell of a lot of enemies in SoT either, and yet, everyone loved that game too. Besides, in this one, although you may be saved, every time Elika has to do it the boss recovers part of their life, so ulitimately you ARE punished for your mistake.

Simplistic in its button-pressing? Perhaps. But I think it also allows for plenty of mistakes on the gamer's part just as much as some more complex system. At least this way I'm not overstretching my palm across the controller to pull off a three-button jump/grab/angle leap. The game moves along well thanks to the simpler mechanic, and I still feel more than challenged by it.

I'm very pleased to have it in my collection alongside SoT and my original Mac version way back when.
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