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Gay publication asks if games are getting gayer photo

Following on from the Shadow Complex debate, the question is being raised as to whether or not games are becoming more accepting of homosexuality and gay issues. Gay publication The Advocate asks if games are getting gayer and decides that some steps forward are still needed, despite positive gains being made.

"We still haven’t seen the kind of normalization [of LGBT characters and story lines] that we’ve seen in movies and on TV for some time. We still haven’t had our Brokeback Mountain moment," argues Brenda Brathwaite. "It took them a while, but developers ... eventually got hip to the fact that there are LGBT gamers out there who want to control LGBT characters ... The almighty dollar talks as much in this industry as it does in any other, and we all know the gay market is nothing to sneeze at in that regard ...

"We also have to stop putting things into games that turn off gay players How many games have you played that put you in control of a male character and then asked you to save a princess?"

Maxis game developer Jeb Havens, who happens to be gay himself, adds to the debate: "[Developers are] moving away from the stereotype of the angry, homophobic teen boy ... toward a broader picture of who is buying and playing games... We’re starting to see a willingness to experiment with stories and characters that would appeal to more diverse audiences."

I'd love to see more gay characters in games, provided they're not being gay for the sake of it. Characters that are inconsequentially gay would be brilliant, but I think it will be years before people accept gay elements in videogames without making a big deal out of it. Not even the aforementioned Brokeback Mountain has managed that yet.

Don't show me a gay love story, show me a love story that just so happens to be gay.


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64 comments | showing # 1 to 50

PappaDukes's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:02
PappaDukes
Gaydar?
moggle's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:03
moggle
Yes.

But not in a homosexual sense.
Arugala9's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:04
Arugala9
Magnalon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:07
Magnalon
Honestly, women in video games are objectified, or just viewed as shallow eye candy on a normal basis. African Americans too, just see Barrett, Cole Train, The Sarge, or any other popular character for "IM GON GIT YOU FOO" type blaxplotation.

Gay people will continue to be treated the same way (stereotyped, and exploited).

Hopefully more true to earth representations of gays will be in future game installments; at the very least so the churchie homeschooled kids can be aware that they are human too, and not the devil's spawn (Orson was probably homeschooled).
CapnCrunk's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:08
CapnCrunk
With a lot of characters their sexuality doesn't even come into it. If you think the ship from Galaga is gay, then it's gay.
kireblade's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:08
kireblade
Kojima made leaps and bounds with this in Metal Gear Solid 3, but it usually isn't recognized that much.
Kaspar's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:10
Kaspar
I don't think games need a "Brokeback Mountain", because that would be gay.

I just want to play my games. If a game has a message, it's ok, but I can't picture a game revolving around the message "Gay's A-OK" and really, I don't want to.

I take no interest in this debate and if games start getting this shit shoehorned in for the sake of promoting equality or whatever, then I guess I'll just not be playing them.
kauza's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:12
kauza
In my playthrough of Devil Summoner 2, I've been surprised at how many little gay jokes there are scattered around in random places. None of them really seems to be offensive, and, honestly, it has been sort of refreshing for me to see that, just because you have so many games paranoid to make any references to homosexuality at all.

I posted a while back that I'd love to see a game that does the exact opposite of what Fear Effect did: that is, offer a homosexual relationship that isn't inserted for the sole purpose of saying: holy shit, they're gay!
JulianProxy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:14
JulianProxy
I would like to see gay characters in games, because I think that they are under represented. However, I would agree with Jim: it needs just just happen to be that way. If the game itself makes a big deal of it, the situation isn't real.
madfigs's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:17
madfigs
Army of Two?
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:19
brainderailment
If so, who is the gayest?
Electro Lemon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:19
Electro Lemon
Bioshock Mountain.
Blue Odeyssey's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:22
Blue Odeyssey
Totally off topic great to see a screenshot from enchanted arms, an extremely underated RPG even if it did have ome god awful voice actors.
Cartman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:25
Cartman
@ Blue odeyssey

Once again, we agree.
ace of knaves's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:26
ace of knaves
It's really hard for me to imagine a gay character in a game who's sexuality isn't their defining characteristic. There are plenty of characters who don't exhibit any sexual preference one way or the other, and if someone developing the game said, "Oh yeah, they're gay," we would just have to take their word for it, but I think this medium's quite a ways away from someone like, say, Omar Little on The Wire, a fully rounded, complex character who just so happens to be unequivocally gay.
Stevil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:26
Stevil
I remember when David Cage decided to put a gay character in Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit. While his heart was in the right place, he used the character of Carla's neighbour as a soap box for some ham-fisted commentary on why gay characters aren't represented fairly in media. After all that, the character doesn't even feature in the main plot and is ultimately wasted on that one scene...the very thing Cage was complaining about in the first place.

I'm not even going to start on the offensive sterotype that ends up being the cause of all the trouble in Suda 51's Michigan. I doubt that the character was gay in original translation, but the voice actor and v.o. director should shot on sight for that one.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:28
Elsa
Nicely said Jim!

I do think it would be really nice to see just a normal gay married couple as side characters in a game... or as you said, a love story where the characters happen to be gay, rather than a gay love story.
-PL-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:35
-PL-
Shadow Hearts: Covenant had that gay costume maker... it was awesome collecting cards of scantily clad men for him.
KrazyKraut's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:38
KrazyKraut
jim are you gay?
DJDuffy 's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:39
DJDuffy
It's funny, in the latest Drunkcast I talked on length about this. I'd really love us to get to a point where we do have Brokeback Mountain-ish games. Saying we need "normalization" isn't really appropriate wording, but she is onto something.

I think you're right Jim, in that we have many years to go till we are on equal terms with the film industry. The gaming world has always been predominately testosterone filled which might hinder progress.
KrazyKraut's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:39
KrazyKraut
i mean it not bad...read my comment on shadow shit debatte (no.395).
Zeta Crossfire's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:42
Zeta Crossfire
Im not homophobic or anything but considering that 95% of gamers are straight shoulden't they just keep doing what there doing? I have friends who are gay so i don't have a problem with it but when i play a game and i see 2 guys in a love scene it does turn me off to the game. If its two girls on the other hand....
DJDuffy 's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:43
DJDuffy
I'd also like to add that to a point, the film and television industry has a long way to go as well. They are far from perfect. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "Don't show me a gay love story, show me a love story that just so happens to be gay."

As mainstream and brilliant as Brokeback Mountain was, it was all about the fact that they were gay that drove the story. That's why I love shows like Torchwood, because it's an excellent sci-fi/drama that just happens to have a main character who is bisexual (Jack Harkness).
box lobster's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 17:54
box lobster
@Zeta Crossfire

"I'm not homophobic but..." usually means someone is going to say something homophobic. Which you did. Congratulations! Your gay friends don't cancel out your prejudice.
laika one's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:10
laika one
my commander shepard was a lesbian :)

Also, Persona 4... Kinda.
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:18
Daxelman
No homo, but 5 dollars was, and still is, 5 dollars.
hpv's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:33
hpv
Confirmed: Brokeback Mountain: Wii Edition.
Sanious's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:42
Sanious
Personally, I dont want a 'Brokeback Mountain moment'. Nothing against the movie or anything, but I just would like to see something you already said, the character(s) just so happen to be gay and it isn't the focus. So it just comes off that it is the norm and nothing extraordinary.

And Zeta, that is the kind of thinking that keeps these things from happening. Sorry to inform you but there are more homosexuals playing xbox live than you'd like to think and that you come off homophobic.
NecroNeko's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:43
NecroNeko
Some of it is an issue of simple business. Companies want to sell as many copies of a game as they can, and most gamers (in America at least) tend to be heterosexual men. So, they make games for that audience. I think that's also why most gay characters in games so far have been women, for example in Mass Effect (sorta) and Fear Effect, since many straight men find girl on girl action hot.
That being said, I really don't care about this issue, given that I'm straight. I don't care about issues that don't concern me. I personally wouldn't want to play a game with a gay romance, not because of prejudice or "homophobia," but simply because I can't relate to it. (Although I did make my hero in Fable II bisexual just for laughs.)
Zeta Crossfire's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 18:48
Zeta Crossfire
I don't care if im homophobic or not. You can get married im ok with that. You can be gay im ok with that. But it still makes me uncomfortable im not prefect. Its kind of like religion with me. You can practice what ever kind you want as long as you don't push it on me. Kind of have same that pathology with this kind of stuff. Im getting better with it but ya,,,
Mushman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:04
Mushman
@Blue Odeyssey

Agreed, I brought the game xheap for my PS3 and really liked it. It's brilliant to play a RPG that doesn't take itself too seriously at all. Oh, and one you can finish in a relatively short amount of time (45 hours is not that long for a RPG) and son't fell short changed. It is DEFINITELY not one of the great RPG's of all time, yet it didn't need to be, it was fun. brisk and a nice change from the norm.

Sorry to go off topic people, seriously.
Jin Champloo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:06
Jin Champloo
@ Zeta Crossfire

You keep attempt to defend yourself yet you contradict yourself with each statement you type out. It really is sad that more people can't be accepting of anything beyond what they personally see as "normal."
rsquad's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:09
rsquad
Fear Effect Retro Helix
Solid Squirrel's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:15
Solid Squirrel
So, what, The Advocate would prefer the Italian plumber rescue a "queen" then?
seaniccus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:33
seaniccus
Yeah, the problem with this is when it's a "Gay Character," sexual identity takes precedent over identity.

It's the same problem with the gay pride parade. One's SEXUAL identity is NOT one's "identity," but it's often viewed or treated as such not only in stereotypes, but often the demands of the community who is promoting acceptance. True acceptance won't be obtained until, as Jim suggests, we see a not a "gay story" but a story that just so happens to have gay characters in it who's sexuality is inconsequential to the story itself. Anything else is unacceptable.
Keriaku's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:34
Keriaku
Being gay myself, I just think that in games where you end up choosing a partner, you should be able to choose to be with a guy. Any time this happens in a game this is the first thing I hope for.

Persona 3&4 come to mind for me. Also, I found it kind of cheap how they made Kanji out to not really be gay and more confused.
Nightrain117's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 19:39
Nightrain117
Seen any Final Fantasy main characters lately?
Sanious's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:09
Sanious
@seaniccus

I think sexual identity takes over because being gay is not the norm, guys can't be seen as just being feminine, people apply being feminine with being gay, which is totally wrong.

Straight identity is applied all over the place now, but it doesn't matter because that is seen as the norm. People have love interests in games all the time, they're all women. I think for some people asking that to be a guy is too much, which I don't think it is.

The only thing I think is if a company were to base it on stereotypes. I think there should be Gay Love stories, but not done in a sense where it is the main story, but only a part of it. The problem with that though is that people will make it out to be the main part of it because it isn't the norm and because of ignorance.

Also, I agree with the whole Kanji thing in Persona 4. I liked how he developed to being a gay person in the game until further along becoming sexually confused. And I think it was still sort of brilliant considering that it played with sexuality confusion, it's not the kind of thing you see in characters in games.
Snidesworth's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:09
Snidesworth
The Longest Journey had a gay couple right at the start. They're your landladies. It's presented well. No big reveal, no big issue, but it's more than just a side comment and is a prominent trait of both characters without being THE most prominent trait of them.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:13
manasteel88
most recent game I can think of is Infinite Undiscovery. Edward reminiscing about Sigmund.
kjohnson1585's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:26
kjohnson1585
Fear Effect, bitches.
TheBigFeel's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:38
TheBigFeel
On xbox live, I've heard lots of people being called gay. Does that count?
adwhammy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:41
adwhammy
Why is everyone being so hard on Zetacrossfire, he only said that seeing two guys "turns me off to the game".

It was ok for the advocate to say that gay people were turned off by being put "in control of a male character and then asked you to save a princess?" so why not for the other way around.

He said that he was "not homophobic but" only to clraify that he isn't a hardline redneck who has a huge problem with gay people.

I must admit that watching brokeback mountain I was abit shocked when Heath and Jake first started doing it, but it was such a good movie i got over it soon enough. But that isn't the norm for me being straight and having mostly straight friends so am I a homophobe for being a little bit uncomfortable with that straight up? I don't think so at all.
Senger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 20:45
Senger
Their is enough flamboyant characters in games already, why do these gaming companies have to put stereotypical characters based on sexuality into a game? Just like other people have said, most characters in a game doesn't have a set sexuality unless it actually says or shows preference of. What the homosexuals who think about this stuff need to realize is that when these guys are making this game the last thing on there mind is probably, " Hmmm, We should make this character gay, and this one straight, or Let's make this character really flamboyant and wear rainbow colored clothes and talk with a lisp and show outward signs of homosexuality."

If the gay rights or whatever community wants more homosexual related activity in games why don't they band together and make a Gay Gaming company of sorts and create to their hearts desire?
Sanious's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 21:47
Sanious
@adwammy

Probably for saying something like this:

'i see 2 guys in a love scene it does turn me off to the game. If its two girls on the other hand....'

It's pretty naive to assume that just because there are gay people in it there is going to be a love scene. And another for one relationship to be ok and not another.

@Senger

Because there shouldn't have to be a gay gaming company. The whole point is to treat it as equals instead of continually catering to one audience which isn't even the whole audience of people who play video games. It's really not asking for much.
WormFOODx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/27/2009 23:03
WormFOODx
You really have to look at the 80/20 rule. When you can show the game companies that 80% of the audience is gay, then you will get games that center on gay. Right now they are in the 20% or less category. Not so sure it will ever be the reverse.
Holiday's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/28/2009 01:00
Holiday
"We also have to stop putting things into games that turn off gay players How many games have you played that put you in control of a male character and then asked you to save a princess?"

Hmm...I think whenever you have a video game with a lot of beefy-macho male characters running around with their phallic guns shooting other beefy-macho males characters...That's pretty gay. So how many video games is that? Or how about all those JRPGs with all those effeminate male characters? Or how about that UFC video game which is basically man on man masochistic porn fetish.
Preacher747's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/28/2009 01:39
Preacher747
To be honest I have yet to play a game with a convincing depiction of a subtle and nuanced straight relationship; it's all been either heavy handed juvenile wish fulfillment or sexless cute suggestion. If games haven't had their 'Gone With the Wind' good luck having their 'Brokeback Mountain'.
Laird's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/28/2009 01:41
Laird
There was a character in Earthbound that was gay. It was Jeff's friend, Tony. It was so subtle, that no one knew about it until Itoi said so.

Last I heard, that character moved to Liberty City to be a singer or something...
CaptainBus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/28/2009 03:16
CaptainBus
So few games characters exhibit a sexual preference that to try and force one on would be contrived.
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