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Gartner: Red Ring of Death caused by Microsoft's own lousy graphics chip photo

According to Gartner's research VP and Chief Analyst, Bryan Lewis, the Red Ring of Death that's plagued the Xbox 360 since launch is the result of a crappy graphics chip -- one designed by Microsoft itself. 

At the Design Automation Conference in California, Lewis explained that in order to avoid paying a third party ASIC vendor, Microsoft opted to design the GPU itself and then send it off to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing.  

It's kind of like the time your dad wanted to fix his own leaky toilet, only this is a lot less funny and a lot harder to clean up. Lewis says Microsoft's solution was to let an ASIC vendor redesign the chip after all, whom he believes is ATI. 

As of yet, no one from the big M has bothered to poke their head out and deny anything. Do you think Microsoft tried to sweep this one under the rug, or did Bryan Lewis plant it there? 

[Via CVG]


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61 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:08
Volomon
It doesn't really matter what it is, the bottom line has always been known. Microsoft cuts corners and does things cheap. End result failure. They think more of themselves than the decency of putting out a good product for their customers, and thats why I'm not one of them.
Dreamsower's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:10
Dreamsower
"I was wondering why that turkey was there..."

It's not stupid, it's advanced.

I've been looking into getting a new 360 this summer. Not having one I haven't been keeping up with much of the news regarding the RRoDs, are those not a problem with brand new models now?
infinity's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:11
infinity
all i can say is i'm glad i'm not an early adopter (or an adopter at all, for the time being).

also, GIR.
DaedHead8's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:13
DaedHead8
Not surprising at all really.
F Whipple's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:13
F Whipple
I can't wait to hear microsoft's pr spin for this one
linuxguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:15
linuxguy
If microsoft screws the software,microsoft screws the hardware,please someone tell me what are they good at?
aborto thefetus's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:16
aborto thefetus
Dtoid needed more GIR.
Rifter01's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:18
Rifter01
Well, if true, class action may be unfortunately the result.
If untrue, scandal is full of scandal. I wish MS would respond quickly to the allegation(s), and with something besides, (loosely quoted) 'There isn't any one cause of this '.. blah blah. AFAIK, the newer models of 360 don't have this problem. AFAIK tho'. :o/
Hamza CTZ Aziz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:19
Hamza CTZ Aziz
OK, Invader Zim reference has increased your coolness points through da roof.
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:20
king3vbo
OMG TOPHER I LOVE YOU!!!

The only thing that could make Dtoid MOAR BUTTSECKS AWESOME would be Gir
Electro Lemon's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:24
Electro Lemon
Gir!

Also, wasn't this common knowledge?
TheToiletDuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:27
TheToiletDuck
I'm ripping my gpu out of my 360. I'll never get red ring again!
Problem solved.
JTHomeslice's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:30
JTHomeslice
That is one of the best Zim episodes Toph. I love you even more.
niacin's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:31
niacin
another case of idiots thinking "how hard could it be?".
Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:36
Professor Pew
GIR!!!!!
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:45
Syn
Ooooh, thats a burn about a burn! Thats a second degree burn!
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:55
Sharpless
Face and palm.

"Frank, I'm going to start slapping you now, and I may never stop."
brosef's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 19:58
brosef
This article needs moar Captain Obvious.
covah's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:01
covah
Haven't we known this?
bVork's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:07
bVork
Hold on a second. Didn't we know before launch that the GPU was designed by ATI? Here's a nice article detailing the technology: http://techreport.com/articles.x/8342/1

Furthermore, ATI doesn't have fabrication plants of their own. They use TSMC themselves. Googling this up will reveal a wealth of information but just for completeness, here's an article that mentions it in passing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/14/ati_x_first/

I call bullshit.
xe-cute's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:22
xe-cute
^ Ditto
Paustinj's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:28
Paustinj
GIR!!!!!!!!!!!

YAY!
01DragonFly's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:31
01DragonFly
i should better stay away from this tipes of news , i havent experience the Ring of dead , so i hope i never have to lol
Tash's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:32
Tash
It's this kind of garbage that keeps me from getting a 360, even though they've got a ton of games I want to play. I mean, how long have they known about their consoles crapping out?
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 20:44
Qraze
@tash. that's the reason i don't have one. that and i don't like the majority of their games. except fable.
sexycommando's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:06
sexycommando
So how do you know if your 360 has the new non-RRoDing ATi gpu?
SoopaFly TNT's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:14
SoopaFly TNT
Once again Microsoft telling their customers to fuck off. After going through a few myself, I had enough. I am so glad I got rid of that piece of shit.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:16
Qraze
if it redrings on you. other than that, you don't. a new falcon, vallhala motherboard won't mean shit if it is this chip.
xe-cute's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:19
xe-cute
I got E74 error last month and it is the best thing that ever happened to my xbox360.

It got sent off from the UK to germany and took 2 weeks to return home, but when it did it was much quieter and ran alot cooler and whe nI swiytched it off it no longer madew horrible cracking noises.


On the form it said they replaced the MoBo and I could tell that included everything attached to it as the DVD drive was new too.

The birthdate of mine was december 2006 and I bought it July 2007 and it died May 2008. So I was lucky to get it fixed in the `1yr warrantery as with it not being RROD I would not of been entitled to a free fix a few weeks later.


Since it has been fixed I am sure it will not get the RROD now or any other problems as I can just tell by the sound of it and the heat it no longer produces tha tthey have obviously fitted it with the new stuff that is more reliable by far.
CaptainApocalypse's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:20
CaptainApocalypse
They can't make a decent OS, why would they be able to make a decent graphics card? I still can't believe I've only gotten one RRoD.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:22
Qraze
you have the choosen one captain.
-PL-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:28
-PL-
I don't know about you guys, but I've been using windows for 15 years and it's always worked fine for me. I hate when people who don't know how to maintain a computer complain that it's the operating system's fault when they fuck it up.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:40
Qraze
i have no problem with windows or the original xbox but when they killed all production of games for the xbox i was done with them, windows has always been decent for me.
Roryzilla's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:43
Roryzilla
Windows (XP) is typically quite stable, you just have to treat it like a show horse by pampering it like a little bitch. I'm an early adopter of the 360 and only had one RRoD and am doing pretty well with the 360 I received. I've since switched to Mac OSX because of Vista's shenanigans, and I actually don't regret it too much, apart from not having as many applications, and most importantly, games.
joshandrox's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:50
joshandrox
Where there is smoke there is a fire?
DinnertimeNinja's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 21:56
DinnertimeNinja
So does anyone know when/if the new chips are in 360s and in which models?

If they already ARE in newer 360s, has the RRoD rate gone down or even gone away due to their inclusion?

I haven't got a 360 yet but I plan to eventually. The thought of purchasing a potentially broken product has kept me on the fence for some time.

I mean, the PS1 had problems with the disc spinner and the PS2 had problems with misaligning laser eyes but none of these problems presented themselves until years after purchase and they had simple (though annoying) easy fixes that you could use to extend the system lives without resorting to sending it away for repair.


And XP runs pretty damn well for me. I get a lockup or something similar every few weeks or so which is about equal to how often my girfriend's Maxbook pro freezes or crashes or whatever they do.
NihonTiger90's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 22:15
NihonTiger90
Anecdotal evidence: my graphics and video crapped out before I red ringed in April.

Case and point, something's wrong with the damn graphics chip, whether it's the soldering or the chip itself.
Plasma Ray Man's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 22:17
Plasma Ray Man
I've had a 360 for almost 2 years now and the only problems i've had with it is that its super loud. But i have an air conditioner 2 foot from my head so thats not an issue for me. (but now that i've said this the next time i turn it on im gonna get rrod, lol)
GrayFox's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 22:20
GrayFox
If you buy an xbox in the store now it should have the falcon chip. Part of my hopes my old 90nm gets RROD so I can get one of the shiny new ones that doesn't sound like a Harrier.
ace of knaves's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/11/2008 22:43
ace of knaves
It's like we've discovered the source of cancer, but can't do anything about it.

Also, Obey the Taco Man!
Crunshii's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 00:08
Crunshii
zZzZzzZzzzzZZzz......

(dreams of a recall that will never happen...)
bbrigg1's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 01:02
bbrigg1
So, is it safe to buy a 360 now?
ZanyIce's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 02:07
ZanyIce
I just got my 360 back from repairs 2 weeks ago and yesterday I heard some strange noises while playing GTA4, then my 360 froze, I reset it a couple times to get it working and then I got my 2nd RROD. I'm so sick of sending my 360 away every 2 weeks. Seriously fuck Microsoft. I was gonna buy Ninja Gaiden 2 today but looks like there's no point now.
wonky360's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 02:14
wonky360
I want a quiet one ...PLEASE
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 02:53
Emrah
I just cannot believe the shoddy piece of journalism going on here..He "believes" it was ATI? He could have asked me. Well I even looked at the original article at eetimes, it doesn't say "believe" but it is no better:

"To fix the problem, Microsoft went back to an unnamed ASIC vendor based in the United States and redesigned the chip, Lewis added. (Based on a previous report, the ASIC vendor is most likely the former ATI Technologies, now part of AMD.)"

"Unnamed", "most likely".. What??!

It was ATI who designed the chip, and this was known before before Xbox launch:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/
The previous is an article *long after* we knew who was designing the chip. You can find several hundred articles like these..

People who had the slightest techno interest knew ATI was designing Xenos.. And here I read speculations about who it may be, years after launch. Topher, you seriously are not telling us that you didn't know Xbox's GPU was ATI Xenos, years in the making before Xbox's launch..
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 02:57
mistic
I had bought a second 360 ( the one with the HDMI-port and improved heatsinks ( built after july 2007 )) and sold my first-gen 360 to a mate of mine after about a year of non-stop usage and abusing with no real problems, but it RRoD'd a few weeks later so my mate had to send his in :-(
Emrah's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 02:59
Emrah
Also, when I say it was known, it was all *officially* disclosed. There was no space for ambiguity..
Capn Birdseye's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 03:14
Capn Birdseye
Yeah! Down wit teh M1cr0$p00g3!!

... am I cool yet? :)

I have had 2 RRoDs since launch, so yeah, I agree the 360 is a piece of shit hardware wise, but if its the GPU, isn't that ATI's fault?

Oh, and XP and Vista may have their faults, but seriously, look at the alternatives. Open source? Mac? pleeeassee...
Burnt Meatloaf's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 03:27
Burnt Meatloaf
ATI is a fabless vendor. They design chips, but don't manufacture them. Of course this is true. It's true for almost all graphics chips.

Microsoft's real sin here was improper testing. I'm pretty sure the reason why the RROD happened is because Microsoft didn't stress test the machine while there was a DVD in the drive, and thus they didn't consider that the heat generated by the DVD drive would overwhelm the GPU heatsink.

Oh yeah, putting a DVD drive on top of a low-profile heatsink. THAT was a bright thing to do.
that1guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/12/2008 05:49
that1guy
I love my 360. When it works! I had a launch system that RROD last year. Microsoft said it was extending my warranty for 3 years and I was like hell yeah. Well my 360 ended up with one flashing red light last week and the Big M is charging me $100 to fix. The manager told me that the extended warranty only covers the three flashing red lights (RROD). What a croc. Not sure if any one else has had this but just thought I would share the info to warn people if they have their warranty extended. cheers!
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