It should be no secret to the more observant amongst you that the current debacle surrounding Manhunt 2 has hit a nerve with myself and Jim. It's not that we feel particularly protective of the game itself, or of Rockstar as a developer. What we have a serious issue with is the principle at stake here. Like many of you, we adamantly feel that such an action against any piece of media is an action against civil liberty and freedom of choice, and with your help, we want to try use our position as games journalists to do something about it. I've included a synopsis of the situation below for clarification, but if you already feel clued up enough on all the issues present here, feel free to hit the jump.
Despite supposedly having a "games ratings system in the UK that is effective", a piece of entertainment designed purely for the adult market, and never pretending to be anything but, has been effectively banned, thus deeming the adult British gaming public unfit to handle it. The BBFC has stated that releasing the game "would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors" and that even if released only to adults, the title would be "unacceptable to the public". The game's "bleakness and callousness of tone" was cited as part of the reason.
While of course I'd love to be able to tell you how accurate that appraisal is, obviously I can't, as I'm not being trusted as an adult to engage my critical faculties and make up my own mind about what I like and don't like. Apparently the BBFC already knows what would be "unacceptable" to me. And all of this from an organisation which regularly passes bleak and callous movies with few or no cuts, and accepted in one of its own reports that violent games do not have a negative effect on the player. So what's the problem?
Well every new medium and cultural movement has teething troubles, that's something that we've seen countless times. From Elvis, to hippies, to home video, to games, the new has always been treated with suspicion and judged more harshly that pre-existing media until it becomes naturalized within the culture of the time, and it seems that that's exactly what what's happening here. While vacuous "torture porn" like the Saw series and Hostel is consistently released with no problems, despite offering merely tenous narratives to justify its content, gaming gets hammered by a hysterical and sensationalized press and is forced to suffer all manner of ridiculous accusations and slurs. Of course violent games should be rated accordingly, and those ratings should be enforced, but a ban is an infringement on liberty which other media are unlikely to have suffered. And if this course of action becomes a precedent, as a society we're on a very slippery slope indeed. But are we just going to sit around and complain to ourselves? No we are not.
So to this end, we've decided that we want to act, and we want you guys to help us. A large part of the problem as we see it is that the pro-gaming side of the argument rarely ever gets voiced adequately within the mainstream press and media. Of course, educated gaming publications rail against situations like this all the time, but being specialised gaming publications, we're unfortuantely, by and large, preaching to the converted. Despite a brilliant sense of cameraderie within the gaming community, we are rarely seen as a unified voice during periods such as this, and therin lies our problem in getting these issues explored fully and openly.
So we want to find a way of pulling everyone together in order to make our perspective known. Currently the idea is very much in the early planning stages, but we've already been happily stunned by the level of support you've given us. Ideally what we want to create is some sort of organised campaign in order make our concerns known once and for all, which all being well, we hope to culminate in some manner of large scale event in order to bring everyone together under a shared goal. Exactly what this will be, we are as yet undecided, but we know we want it to be big, fun and attention-grabbing, but with a serious message at its core. After much discussion with the community, we've decided to call the enterprise "Gamers For Gaming". We feel this sums up the idea behindthe campaign perfectly, evoking the simple enjoyment of gaming we all want, without any unnecessary complications.
There's an incredible amount of good in games and the gaming community. They're not only fun, but at their best can be stimulating, thought provoking, and dare I say it, amazing pieces of interactive art. They bring people together, incite debate on all manner of topics, bring about friendships, and forge communities. I feel I'm right in stating that everyone involved in this site, from community to staff, has felt the many positive effects of gaming at various points in their lives, but has also been unfortunately aware of the negativity to which the medium can be unfairly subjected.
Well we think it's gone on for too long. Of course new forms of entertainment and art are initially questioned. We can understand that. But gaming has been around long enough for that attitude to be unnecessary now. Millions upon millions of men, women and children play together globally these days, and its about time we moved beyond outdated and overly cautious perceptions of a medium which has brought so much good into the world. It's about time gaming was truly seen on an equal footing with the rest of the entertainment industry. Things have come on leaps and bounds over the last few years, and gaming really is in the best position it's ever been in as a mass-media phenomenon, with many of us believing that the teething-troubles were over until recently. Apparently that's not quite the case though, as while bans of boundary-pushing material are happening, there's still work to be done in making our pastime a fully matured and legitimized entertainment medium.
So we want your help and suggestions in making something happen. As I've previously said, the support we've had from you has already been overwhelming, and it's things like this that make you the incredible community you are. We say it a lot, but it's absolutely true. You guys are fantastic. We want your ideas, we want your suggestions, and we want all of you involved. We feel it's time to give something back to the medium that we've all gained so much from, and we know you lot are exactly the sort of people to help in doing that. Like I said, at the moment we're at a very early stage, but from this point on, Jim and I will be contacting as many people as we can in all areas of the industry to see if this thing has got legs, and we're going to give it our every effort to make it happen. Start getting in touch with us as soon as you can. We'd love to hear from every one of you.
And in the meantime, do what you can on your own. It's tricky, but there are things you can do. The BBFC is a non-governmental body, but feel free to contact your MPs with your feelings on this matter. You can find a full list of them here. These things get raised to the government from a negative perspective, so why not ours? ELSPA also exists as a guardian of the British games industry, so make sure they know you're unhappy with their inaction. Arm yourself with the information you need and hit them with well-considered, non-inflammatory expressions of your feelings, and hopefully they might pay attention. And while it's a long-shot, the same might go for the BBFC themselves. It's definitely worth a trip to their site regardless, if only to read up on their regulations, ruling, and their previous reports on gaming, particularly the one I cited above, which can be found here.
Let's get on this now, and let's get some serious momentum happening. Apathy and acceptance of these things is the only way they can continue, but conversely, making a stand and making your voice heard can and does make all the difference. Let's make that difference.
Let the very hard work begin. Thank you ALL for your early support. We promise we will not let you down.
or is that in phase two?
Sorry, you get the idea.
I bet he has a huge wang.
Don't be a dprime.
Hey, you don't know until you try!
As a gamer, can you say that you have no bias opinions on any matters, specifically those relating to video games? Didn't think so. One of the thing so refreshing about DToid is that the journalists actually are people. They have a right to express their opinions, and they do so wonderfully. Everyone in the world forms their own, personal opinions on every issue they have ever been exposed to. Trying to say that someone will never be taken seriously for simply showing that they are a living, breathing human like the rest of us is pretty snide and ridiculous.
@Jim and David
You can't see me, but I'm standing and applauding right now. Er... well, I was before I started typing. Either way, you guys rock my frickin' socks off. I am so proud to be part of this community (only actually registered recently, but been reading for a long time), especially when we have representatives such as you two who truly want to make sure that our entertainment industry does not get the proverbial shaft.
I will continue to support you and the G4G movement in any way that I can. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to our victory, however long-off if may be.
An organized pro-gamer interest group has been a long time coming.
Once again Good work Jim. No room for fanboyism here.. this affects us all as adult gamers. Same to you Sir David. Thanks!
Via Kotaku
Thanks for the support for us so far, guys. I think we can all pull together on this one, regardless of what side of the console war we're on, what conflicts we might have. That's just somethin' special, know what I mean?
I think a community movement which lobbies your local MP's, and becomes visible in the media with articulate arguments will ultimately be successful. Hang in there!!
Oh, and if we can get some bigger names (not that DToid isn't big!) in with us, then I think we have a much better chance of this succeeding. Can you DToid boys pull any strings to get us some connections within the industry to support our cause?
You thought we WEREN'T going to get developers on board? The word is going out, mark my words, and I will personally see to it that we have good news on that front. I will do what's needed to get the right people on board.
Yeah ... even THAT.
Gamers and games are often misunderstood. It is so easy for someone to look in on people who play violent games for pleasure and fear the fabricated repercussions of its connotation. How could they possibly be good in any way?
On the other hand, I look at some of the things that non-gamers do that I may think are bad for society and not understand their actions, either. I don't really have to, though. Art and beauty are in the eye of the beholder. Just because I don't see it as art doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't either.
I don't like torture-porns, but I have a lot of friends that do. I'm not going to make an effort to stop torture-porns just because I don't get the same enjoyment out of them as other people, or because I'm afraid someone may mimic those events. If anything is going to affect our actions, it will be other people, not a vehicle for entertainment, no matter how much I may or may not care for it.
Gamers For Gaming is truly a genius name as it simply suggests that it is the gamers who should be deciding what games they play. It's important to support the ESRB and get the word out to people about it.
In the same respect, it's not right for the government to tap our phone calls and invade our privacy for the sake of public protection. While it may prevent some very unfortunate situations, it also has the opposite effect and creates certain unfortunate situations; ie a reduction in our ability to make our own decisions and enjoy freedom. Our right should end where another mans nose begins, but we shouldn't attack someone just because they may get a little too close to said nose. And what happens when we've adjusted to that? What's the next step the government takes? Should we abandon democracy? Is it better to lead a cookie cutter life than it is to lead a life full of cookies? Do we extinguish other religions because they conflict with our own? Should we? What if your religion is the one that is getting extinguished?
It may be scary to see someone getting enjoyment out of things that you'll never understand, but no one should let ignorance convert into fear. The best way to avoid fear is through education. If the possibilities of gaming really scare you, you should learn more about it. I believe that the person who should make the final decision is the person who knows the most about it.
Let the gamers decide.
Gamers For Gaming. I'm in.
Very well stated.
I guess I can relate what you're saying to music. I'm a musician and currently a university student pursuing a music degree..I really dislike country music.. Country music is about as brainless as my left nut, but there is a population of the people out there who enjoy it and I respect that and I don't insult them because of their choice of music.
On the flip-side..I'm a big jazzer..I love jazz, I love to play it and so do millions of others in the world, but there is a certain population that doesn't understand jazz music, but the don't say DOWN WITH TEH JAZZ!! They respect it.
If people we're all the same this would be a boring ass life. Complete censorship brings in that cookie-cutter mentality..as a society..as a species...we must all not conform to one single like or dislike..we must adapt and further... and I forgot where I was going with this..
But in retrospect, maybe the reason I dislike country is because I don't understand it. Who knows?
I didn't say ANYTHING about bias or journalistic creativity or what was in your responce; I guess you were grouping me in with people whose comments were more relevant to your responce, but I'm not responcible for those. I said that this site is run obnoxiously, in that the conduct is generally very unserious and doesn't attempt to uphold any sort of professional or intellectual standards. Maybe that's okay and these people have their reasons and think it's fun or something. But considering that, I imagine it's going to be difficult to be taken seriously, as any sort of social or intellectual movement includes a moral evaluations on a standard of judgment, meanwhile the general attitude of dtoid seems to be a hedonistic, nihilistic type of disregard for any sort of rationality or principle. This happens to be oddly mixed in with a practical way of exchanging information about video games, which it does well, but I don't think that's going to help much for this sort of thing.
P.S. No I don't think I have bias in my writing, despite your pretentious "didn't think so." Maybe in subject matter I do, but I wouldn't call that bias, and I believe all the evaluations I offer are at least attempts at objective demonstration.
@other guy who said something about me.
Don't be such a whoever you are. Yeah. How about that.
I'm in.
You want in?
1)Get the gaming sites together, including blogs and official sites
2)Lobby your local law makers
3)Get air time on TV and radio to get your voice heard that this goes beyond just wanting to play a agame and it goes against our civil librities
4)Bring the message to Nintendo and Sony that we are ok with AO rated games on their systems
5)Tell retailers that if they don't sell the game then we will order it online from somewhere else
;)
I've been playing games since I can remember, who is to tell me that a game will damage me or make me become violent. I've beat countless hookers in GTA, ran over god knows how many pedestrians, and ate thousands of mushrooms as Mario, yet in real life it upsets me to see two people fight! I could never go hunting as I don't think I could even shoot an animal. The only damage a game will ever do to me is maybe strain my eyes a little and give me carpal tunnel, and if that's the case maybe WoW should be banned, who knows how much damage that game has caused to my hands! If something is too disturbing to play I simply won't play it, end of story.
I'm glad someone is trying to do something about this; I back you guys up %100
You guys have my undying respect for doing this. Long live Jim, Dave, Destructoid!
Not sure if manhunt2 is coming to New Zealand but when a game runs into trouble in UK or Oz our rating board tends to follow suit.
I will help if I can and now plan to find out if said game will make it to my shores.
Gimme a "D" !!! Gimme a "TOID" !!!