Last week I told you a Resident Evil series debate would be next week -- surprise! I just couldn't let the opportunity to see these two famous Super Mario games pass by without a huge 1 vs 1 "Mario to the death" showdown debate. This one is for all the marbles mushrooms!
With the help of the Dtoid army we chose Super Mario World as the best Mario platformer game in the entire series, and last week we also decided on the best Mario RPG game from the same series, and as it turned out, even the same console. Here are the detailed results:
- Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (21 votes) -- Winner!
- Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (12 votes)
- Paper Mario 64 (7 votes)
- Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (4 votes) -- Tie!
- Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (4 votes) -- Tie!
Here's your choice as the worst Mario RPG game so far, which received over half of all votes cast:
- Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time -- Ouch!
This week you must weigh the pros and cons of each game's different gameplay styles, compare and contrast their impacts on the future of their series, consider how well each has stood the test of time, and also contemplate all the other visual and audio experiences that both games offer. What aspects of its game design and execution will win your vote? Or, what downfalls of the other game lost your vote?
Which game do you like more, and why? Give it some serious thought, share your thought process with all of us, and then get some Super Mario friends to join in on the fun. Hit the jump for new bonus questions and next week's debate topic!
BONUS QUESTIONS:
BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why?
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why?
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why?
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why?
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why?
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why?
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not?
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week.
SUBMIT YOUR OWN QUESTIONS FOR NEXT WEEK:
Each week I will post what next week's debate will be, and allow you to all post your own "bonus questions" in the comments for next week's debate. I'll choose the best of the bunch and then we can get some serious feedback from all different gamer perspectives on not just each game/series, but also a few individual aspects of those games/series. Have something you're dying to know what other games thought of in the game or series? Post your question in the comments and find out what the response is!
NEXT WEEK'S DEBATE:
What's your favorite Resident Evil game?
As usual, there's always an open door policy on suggesting future game debates in the comments. So don't be shy!
Contest:
10:45 PM on 12.01.2009
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BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why?
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why?
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why?
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why?
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why?
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why?
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not?
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week.
:<
BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why?
yoshi and the cape, combined
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why?
my first real rpg - what im on bowsers side what
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why?
vanilla dome - I would just chill there to listen to the music, and not to mention you could either go left or right, and the the level with the star road secret was just amazing
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why?
the epic fight at the beginning
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why?
super mario world, is this even a question
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why?
super mario world, only because I have it on both computers, did I say computers I mean super nintendos
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not?
absolutely not, it would pale in comparison to the original. and Paper Mario 64 was a very worthy successor. wii paper mario is like the disappointing son i never had
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week.
I did not vote, but I would have voted for SMW. One thing that could have improved it was if I didnt piss my pants when I beat the first castle when I was 5
VOTE: RE4. first one in the series I liked, and I liked it very very much. RE5 is pretty good, but I much prefer the characters and setting of the fourth
And instead of focusing just on SMRPG's perspective, let's look at SMW a bit more. What did they add to the series above and beyond what was already there. While the list may not be short, and may not be weak, I don't think it's too long or too powerful of a list compared to the list of SMB3 expanding on SMB1&2. Fun factor definitely has some clout here over SMRPG, but I'd say the replay value is about the same even with multiple exits/paths/collectathons/etc.
To me, taking out my bias against both, it's one of those cases where both has pretty much the same scores across the chart, except for SMRPG beating it out in one or two consideration bullet points.
I can't believe I never noticed it before.
Both soundtracks are on my iPod, which makes me a happy camper. Also, Mario RPG did more to introduce a new audience into RPGs - Mario fans.
Super Mario Rpg creeped me out.
BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why?
Yoshi! He was brand new, and added a whole new dimension to a 2D Platformer we'd all come to love. The fact there were VARIATIONS was even better.
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why?
The timing battle system. The days of when you just choose an attack or spell and let it happen were gone, and you had to be on your toes and pay attention for all the timing and addition jumps, etc. It made RPGs more involved.
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why?
Without a doubt, Star Road! OUTRAGEOUS! TUBULAR! RADICAL!
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why?
Tough call on this one . . . but . . . I'll go with Nimbus Land, since it's in the clouds, it's so mellow, and just so cool!
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why?
Super Mario RPG hands down! If only for the battle music alone!
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why?
Super Mario RPG again, as you can do things like Level 3 Mario game, using only one character, etc. I just enjoyed it more as well.
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not?
If they just smoothed out everything from the SNES game, and not try to over realisticize everything.
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week.
Why the difficulty scale of the game was MASSIVELY upscaled only for the Bundt fight.
BQ1: I LOVE the secondary exits. Finding dem shits added so much replay value to me. A close second place is the special world; I'm the best person I know in person at the game, but damned if it doesn't take me fifty lives to beat Outrageous (that's the one in the woods, right?).
BQ2: It's hard to pick a single gameplay aspect; there's nothing that's brilliant on it's own; it's just a complete package. I would say the actual world that the game takes place in, but that's not really gameplay, per se. I guess maybe the way that each equipable weapon had it's own animation? If that doesn't count, then maybe timed hits; it kept me engaged in the combat more than most other JRPGs.
BQ3: The special world was fucking brilliant (mentally read that sentence in Jim Sterling's voice for full effect). It's seriously the perfect challenge; it's absolutely possible, but at the same time, it's hard as an Eskimo's nipples.
BQ4: Oh, god, how do I pick a favorite? The entirety of the first three acts is unbelievable; I guess if I had to pick, I'd say the Marrymore saga (Booster's Tower through Marrymore). I'm not getting more specific than that.
BQ5. SMRPG, because JUST FUCKING LISTEN TO IT! In SMW's defense, though, it's awesome how they remixed the same song so many ways for the levels.
BQ6. SMW does unless you love SMRPG as hardcore as I do. Even after finding every exit several times, it still feels fresh. I've lost count of the times I've played through SMRPG, and I'm not letting myself play it anymore for a while because I'm afraid I'll get sick of it eventually. There is no such concern with SMW.
BQ7: Absolutely! SMRPG needs all the exposure it can get; almost none of my friends have played it, so it's not like its legacy is going to get tarnished or whatever. If the remake sucks, I'll still love the original, and if the remake is awesome, I would consider getting a Wii for it.
BQ8: I guess I could have gone for a deeper story. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door nailed it; if they could do the game over with a story as good as TTYD, it would be nigh perfect.
I want to play both of them now.
Both absolutely superb games, I'm just a sucker for RPGs more than platformers.
BQ1: The secret exits and extra levels. SMW was the first game I had played that had this option and it was great. I gave me an extra reason to play the game again after I beat it.
BQ2: The timing system. It was great that some of the twitch skills I'd developed from the Mario games were carried over to Super Mario RPG.
BQ3: Special World, I think. I was so excited when I finally made it there. I felt like I was such an expert player!
BQ4: Star Hill. It was interesting listening to everybody's wishes.
BQ5. Both games have great music, but I have to choose SMRPG. SMRPG's has more music and a greater variety of it.
BQ6. I'd say Super Mario World has more replay value. Maybe it's just me, but playing through a RPG is a big time commitment and I don't want to do them too often. I have to play from beginning to end. With a platformer like SMW, I can just play a few levels when I feel like it and then be done.
BQ7: Not really. I can download Super Mario RPG on the Virtual Console already. Why should I pay more just because it's in 3D?
BQ8: The life transfer system. My brother would just pop that thing up and steal all my lives, so I'd have to go and grab a bunch more. I wish I had the option to give him lives rather than giving him the option to take them.
Don't get me wrong. They're both great games, and they both had a substantial impact on their respective genres. Super Mario RPG even invented Timed Hits, the single greatest innovation in the Japanese RPG genre. But... thanks to the setting and characters, it's a really weird, quirky, goofy, innovative Japanese RPG first and a Mario Game somewhere around third or fourth. Super Mario World, on the other hand, is the one game I feel I could point to that represents the Mario franchise as a whole--it gets the nod in my book for that.
BQ1: Hidden exits. That single design choice led to the exploration components of Super Mario World that gave it so much of its depth.
BQ2: Timed Attacks, the single greatest innovation in the history of the Japanese RPG. Future Mario games build on it--they're best implemented in the Mario & Luigi games, allowing evasion as well as improved damage--but making skillful button inputs influence combat adds a tension and viscerality to the combat that I usually find missing in other RPGs.
BQ3: Donut Plains 2-1. Capes EVERYWHERE.
BQ4: Marrymore. It has one of the goofiest boss fights in the history of video games, it's detailed to the point where it feels "alive," and there's a bunch of goofy things you can do to dick around ther--from staying in the luxury suite at the hotel, to not paying for the luxury suite at the hotel and working off your debt, to officiating weddings.
BQ5: The Mario World music has stuck with me. The Mario RPG music... hasn't.
BQ6: Super Mario RPG is one of the most replayable RPGs ever made. The pacing is so great, and the variety of activities and scenarios is so wide, it never really gets boring. Super Mario World is a very good platformer, and the hidden exits are great for extending gameplay, but I always feel a bit obsessive when I replay Super Mario World whereas I feel refreshed when I replay Super Mario RPG.
BQ7: No. Wasted energy--I think Super Mario RPG still looks fine as-is, and the energy that would be put into remaking it would be better-spent elsewhere.
BQ8: The "take turns" multiplayer in Super Mario World is really boring and dated, especially in light of the simultaneous co-op in New Super Mario Bros. Wii.
And it was only about as 3D as Donkey Kong Country. :p
BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why? Some of the hidden exits were well hidden. And one level had different forms entirely depending on how quickly you got through each section. That's pretty cool.
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why? If you jump on a goomba to engage combat, the combat begins with a free goomba head jump. Further, the combat was generally more engaged than standard RPG fare for its time and that clearly worked since a lot of RPGs now have more integrated systems. Especially Namco Bandai RPGs... those guys never use menus.
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why? The Special Levels. They were much harder than the rest of the levels but entirely optional, which is a cool way to integrate challenge into a game that even four year olds can enjoy. I died on the second level hundreds of times and for years before I ever beat it and now it's usually the first or second try. And the levels all had cool names like GROOVY and AWESOME... and then when you're done them all you get pumpkin piranha plants and mario-headed koopas, and pudgey shaped bullet bills, and the whole world turned to autumn! None of those things changed gameplay at all but well, neither did paintball mode and you gotta admit, once you got paintball mode you never turned it off. Oh, there are more questions...
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why? The mine-cart ride. The graphics were TERRIBLE... TERRIBLY AWESOME! haha. No but really it looked like shit but we all shat bricks at the time because it was an approximation of 3-D.
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why? Um, don't make me choose. Probably RPG
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why? SEE ABOVE
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not? No, I would hate that. Make it for the PS3 in glorious HD, then we'll talk. I don't own a wii.
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week. I would have added two more levels with secret exits, or four more regular levels. If you are pro, you'll understand why. Alternately, I would have made a proper sequel, not some horseshit baby-crying fiasco which I really liked at the time but never owned so I don't reserve a place for it in my nostalgia oblongata.
"One thing that could have improved it was if I didnt piss my pants when I beat the first castle when I was 5 "
that's the funniest thing anyone's ever said on destructoid, intentional or not.
:(
man, it still bothers me that some of the very minor paper mario gameplay nuances haven't been widely adopted by other rpg series. ugh!
I think I'd have to hand it to Super Mario World though. The game has aged better. Not that SMRPG isn't fun anymore, but its successors added a lot to the formula. At the time it was released, Timed Hits were a great way to spice up a turn-based number-fest. Today, the point and click is disappearing.
Super Mario World is still quite a meaty platformer. The levels aren't any worse compared to recent installments.
BQ1: Finding all the secret levels and alternate exits. They give the player plenty of reason to keep coming back for more.
BQ2: Boss battles. Some of them were genuinely challenging, and encouraged the player to use different characters regularly. All in all, the boss fights were a great blend of strategy and reflexes. You could just go Mario-Bowser-Geno and spam attacks all day long, but that'll take you a while on Smithy.
7. No, no, no. Fans are never happy with remakes, no matter what you do. If you don't change anything, reviewers complain about how dated the formula is. If you make changes, reviewers complain about how the formula is too different.
I'd love to see a Mario and Luigi or Paper Mario style game that uses more elements of SMRPG though. Who wouldn't want interchangable party members and a treasure trove of secrets and cameos?
I vote Super Mario World because of that.
BQ1: Yoshi added a huge level of depth to the game
BQ2: How interactive the battles were. Timed button presses, etc.
BQ3: I always liked the forest area. I don't know why.
BQ4: Honestly, it has been so long, I really can't remember any specific area other than the first area and the sewer, which sucked.
BQ5. SMW - It just has that Mario music feel!
BQ6. SMW - I don't get much replay value out of RPGs. Platformers, on the other hand, offer quite a bit. Especially with all the secrets, hidden exits, etc.
BQ7: I think it could be cool. I would rather see a sequel with Geno and Mallow in it though.
BQ8: I'm not sure there is anything to improve upon SWM. It really might be 2D side scrolling perfection.
What I loved about this game was the addition of the past plattforming Mario games plus new elements and non-related ones (like the Power Rangers parody). Also, the battle system was an incredibly improvement over other RPG games with a more dynamic style, yet simple and fun.
Super Mario World is a great game, it has no problems in general, that's what made me had a hard debate myself for this vote.
BONUS QUESTIONS
BQ1: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario World? Why?
Yoshi. I was really pleased with Super Mario Bros. 3 costumes and its map system. Super Mario World implemented this same scheme highly improved from SMB3, however, the system was the same. Yoshi added an extra element and a different gameplay for Mario. And I loved Yoshi's noises!
BQ2: What was your absolute favorite gameplay aspect of Super Mario RPG? Why?
The battle system. As an RPG fan the battle system in all of them was the same: Turn-based attacks with no interaction. In SMRPG I had to be pending to moments where I had to do some action to make a stronger attack and to defend better. I loved that!
BQ3: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario World? Why?
The Star area upsky was great because all of its stages required to think before act in order to discover the actual exit of it. Haunted houses are also one of the greatest and most confusing stages, I love them.
BQ4: What was your favorite level/area of Super Mario RPG? Why?
Booster tower. The look and the background music were great, and Super Mario 8-bit was a nostalgic surprise.
BQ5. Which game had better music overall? Why?
Super Mario RPG soundtrack was more complex and with a more variety of sounds and rhythms, I liked it better.
BQ6. Which game has more replay value after all these years? Why?
Super Mario RPG has even more secrets and side-quests than "World", with special guests, hidden items and funny events. I think "RPG" has more replay value.
BQ7: Would you like to see Super Mario RPG receive a full remake with updated 3D graphics for the Wii if nothing else in the game was changed? Why or why not?
I wouldn't like a remoake of Super Mario RPG because I'm still waiting for Super Mario RPG 2, an actual sequel.
BQ8: Name one thing you didn't like, or wish was improved, in the game you voted for this week.
I'd have loved the addition of Luigi, because that'd increase funny dialogs and the story could have been a little more complex between the Brothers, Mario&Luigi style.
BQ1: Probably Yoshi. Someone mentioned Yoshi+Cape. That's pretty great.
BQ2: "He knows about timed hits!"
BQ3: Oh man... I don't even know. There were so many great levels. The castles were great, and I enjoyed the Ghost Houses, since they were a new concept in the Mario series at the time.
BQ4: Again, this is tough. The Forest Maze was great for the music, Booster's Tower was pretty crazy, Monstro Town, though you didn't do much there, was fun... Really, I think the characters make most of the areas for me. Also, Nimbus Land.
BQ5: Mario RPG, because this.
BQ6: I think a platformer that you can pick up and play a few levels in inherently has more replay value than an RPG, so I'll go with Mario World here. That being said, Mario RPG is still a fun one to play through and still holds up to this day.
BQ7:It's unnecessary. But I'd probably still buy it.
BQ8: It would have been nice if Luigi had been more than the guy in the instruction manual and a brief cameo in the credits.
BQ2: I just liked the plot, Super Mario RPG did a good job at storytelling for the Mario universe.
BQ3: Chocolate island was my favorite. The levels in that area of SMW were all very inventive, I also liked the mysteriousness of the "SPECIAL" levels and how difficult they could be at times.
BQ5. Super Mario World had better music because it was classic but quite expanded when compared to SMB and SMB3.
BQ6. SMW had way more replay value, it was a game where you could sit down, play a couple levels, get addicted and then play them all. It's a game I can 96* in one sitting very easily now, for some reason it never gets old. The game takes you everywhere.
BQ7: No. Nintendo should stay true to their formula and just keep putting games out that are new for their franchises.
BQ8: I didn't like how in some levels of Super Mario World you can just fly through the entire thing. Nintendo should have put spikes at the top of some levels so that Mario couldn't do that.
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My vote is for Resident Evil 4. It pinned the tail on the donkey as far as survival horror games go.