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Game Debate to the Death! The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time VS Super Mario 64 photo

Last week we had quite the epic "odd debate" matchup, and I can only hope this week's colossal competition will be just as exciting when I tally the votes. The score was dead even at a hundred votes into the comments, and a winner only squeezed through at the very end. Put this debate down in the books as one of the better discussions we've ever had. Here are the results:

  • GoldenEye 007 (66 votes) -- Winner!
  • Super Smash Bros. 64 (57 votes)

If you thought there couldn't be a more hair-pulling debate than last week, then this week's odd debate might just be your breaking point. Both of these games were, and arguably still are, the perfect examples of their respective genres. Both have gameplay that stands the test of time, and easily puts to shame most similar games to this day.

In my opinion, the only thing more amazing than either of these games is that each title came from the same great game designing mind. I'm truly equally biased towards each of these games, as well as equally torn on this debate. This is by far the hardest game debate for me to ever cast a vote in.

Which game do you think is better, and why? Give it some serious thought, get some N64-owning friends to share their opinions as well, and check back next week for the winner, which will face GoldenEye 007 in the Nintendo 64 odd debate finals.

Bonus Question: Which series do you think is better overall? Mario or Zelda? And why?


Continue: More The Legend of Zelda stories





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163 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Oni's Avatar
Oni at 10/28/2008 22:46
Wow. Two great games that helped re-define their respective generas. This is a tough one, Fronz.

Honestly, I'm probably going to go with Ocarina here. It has the superior story, more places to visit and better puzzles to solve.

Ocarina wins in my book, but honestly, it was really close.
DaedHead8's Avatar
DaedHead8 at 10/28/2008 22:47
Unfortunately this week is a bit of a no-brainer for me. I've never been a big fan of Zelda while at one point in my life I considered tattooing an 8 bit Mario sprite onto my back. So my vote goes to Super Mario 64. However I'd like to make a prediction and say Zelda: OoT will win this battle before being crushed by Goldeneye next week.
ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar
ArrestedDeveloper at 10/28/2008 22:47
I have good memories of both but I've got to give the nod to Zelda: Ocarina of Time. It felt epic and the music was awesome.

Also, thank goodness Goldeneye won.
Coltronathon5000's Avatar
Coltronathon5000 at 10/28/2008 22:48
hmm I've never been a fan of Mario games in general, yet I still can appreciate its a great game and basically created the modern platformer template.

eh fuck it - Zelda:OoT all the way
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 10/28/2008 22:50
Zelda: Ocarina of Time is a better game overall, but Super Mario 64 had a bigger impact.

That's still a vote for Ocarina of Time.

Bonus: I like both series a lot for different reasons. I can't choose.
4knuckleshuffle's Avatar
4knuckleshuffle at 10/28/2008 22:51
Ocarina of Time. I had an ulcer when I played Super Mario 64.
SephirothX's Avatar
SephirothX at 10/28/2008 22:53
Ocarina of Time is considered one of the best games ever made. Mario 64 arguably isnt even the best Mario game made.

Hands down - Zelda : OoT
pedrovay2003's Avatar
pedrovay2003 at 10/28/2008 22:55
Oh man, this is just cruel...

I'm gonna have to go with Ocarina, though. It's just too classic to not be considered the best.
ian_esq's Avatar
ian_esq at 10/28/2008 22:55
mario
Arttemis's Avatar
Arttemis at 10/28/2008 22:55
I never liked the Mario games past the NES... I'd say Banjo Kazooie was a far better designed and more enjoyable platformer than SM64.

Ocarina of Time is possibly my favorite adventure game of all time, though.

Zelda: OoT, hands down.

Bonus Answer: Overall, definitely Zelda... originally on NES, Mario.
Pyroph's Avatar
Pyroph at 10/28/2008 22:56
Zelda.
Verol's Avatar
Verol at 10/28/2008 22:57
Ocarina of Time

Although Majora's Mask outclasses it in almost every single way (except number of dungeons, but the story and sidequests make up for it.)


Mario 64 has a special play in my heart though, the first 3D water level I ever played... and it has me traumatised permantly.
Fronz's Avatar
Fronz at 10/28/2008 22:58
Some might think this is an easy debate, and that's their call. But personally, even though I'll readily admit that Zelda 64 is my favorite game of all-time, and that I'm a Miyamoto-fan-boy, and NOT a Nintendo-fan-boy, this still is an incredibly hard choice for me. Here's why...

Super Mario 64 is like Zelda 64 on drugs. It cuts out any story or dialogue bullshit, and taps into a part of humanity that encapsulates why people -- anybody -- can like games. Miyamoto has a skill of creating pure and unadulterated FUN. To make Zelda 64 might have been incredibly challenging, but in my opinion it's even harder to make a game that's twice as big and nothing BUT fun. Every single step and jump and movement or action in Mario 64 is fun. end of story. Any human being can pick it up, without having any prior Mario knowledge or any prior gaming experience at all... and they'll instantly have fun.

As CHAD-MAZING as Zelda 64 is, there's still plenty of idle walking for minutes on end from one place to the next. Its Epona and efficient musical portal system paved the way for how to get shit done in an adventure game, but it still comes NOWHERE close to the devastating percentage of time that people had fun while playing Mario 64, which is, like, 99.99%

Let me put it this way. Zelda 64 is that cool guy in class who everybody likes, but he just also happens to be a straight-A student. He goes to parties and has a lot of fun and gets laid all the time, BUT, he's always the second person to finish tests. The first person to always finish tests is Mario. He's a fucking freak of nature.

It's truly a gameplay versus story debate. On paper, Mario 64 IS the better game. And in every other debate I try to cast votes purely on what works better on paper. But I can't this time.

Zelda's gameplay was spot-on, and unlike Mario, you cared about character. Hell, you cared about material objects. When the ocarina got thrown into the Hyrule Castle moat, I wanted to reach into the screen and grab it. When the Deku Tree petrified, I felt sad. When I broke pots, I felt bad for making a mess. The world was REAL. And no matter how amazing and solid and successful your gameplay is, I will always vote for the one that is almost as good in every single way, AND has a story that evokes strong emotions in its players.

VOTE: Zelda 64.

BONUS VOTE: Without a doubt the Mario Series. Zelda 64 was sadly the first Zelda game i ever played, and after finishing it I quickly jumped into the older games in its series, only to be disappointed. Zelda 64 is only as fucking amazing as it is for one reason -- for the most part it only perfects what had already been accomplished in the past in its series. In my opinion the Mario series as a whole completely blows Zelda and any other game series out of the water, into the sky, out to space, and to distant stars where Mario can dance around it in the Galaxy forever and ever. Mario ALWAYS wins... except this once :)
ZServ's Avatar
ZServ at 10/28/2008 22:58
Ocarina of Time. It's just so epic and huge for its time, and even today its still pretty epic.
Krylancello's Avatar
Krylancello at 10/28/2008 23:01
Ocarina of Time is the clear winner in my book. While Mario is the mascot of Nintendo, Link is their hero. For me, it's about the story and the adventure. With the Zelda series it is the classic story of good versus evil in the truest sense. The Mario games are great fun, but Zelda is just as fun, but adds a real sense of purpose.

Bonus: Also Zelda.
Fronz's Avatar
Fronz at 10/28/2008 23:02
@ Arttemis -- I've always said Banjo Tooie was highly under appreciated, it successfully expanded on every element that Mario had invented and perfected, but I still wouldn't go so far as to say it was better than Mario 64.
sevendash's Avatar
sevendash at 10/28/2008 23:03
Mario for sure without a doubt. I feel Zelda never really added much to its franchise while Mario has continued to grow throughout its days. Even in just these two titles I feel Super Mario 64 reached more people.
DanlHaas's Avatar
DanlHaas at 10/28/2008 23:04
I hate you for making me choose, Fronz. It's like asking me which child I love more.

But I love Zelda more. For personal reasons more than the virtues of the games themselves; Ocarina was basically the turning point for me. That was when games became more than something I did for fun and then forgot about, that was essentially the game that turned me into a hardcore gamer.
vote: Zelda
MF DOOM's Avatar
MF DOOM at 10/28/2008 23:05
WOW zelda zelda zelda........
FuhkTwatTheClown's Avatar
FuhkTwatTheClown at 10/28/2008 23:10
Super Mario 64. Go read Chad's memory card about it and you'll understand...
F Whipple's Avatar
F Whipple at 10/28/2008 23:11
zelda

bonus: zelda
Arttemis's Avatar
Arttemis at 10/28/2008 23:11
@Fronz - Conversely, I've always thought Mario 64 was totally unenjoyable, while the BK series improved upon each of Mario's facets so well that it made 3D platforming "FUN" for the first time (for me).
madninja's Avatar
madninja at 10/28/2008 23:11
Mario 64 is better of the two but Zelda is a better series.
CarltonBanksyo's Avatar
CarltonBanksyo at 10/28/2008 23:12
Mario 64.

I remember playing this game for the first time in this crappy store while me and my brother were deciding to buy either a playstation or a 64. The moment you picked the controller up and were able to run around in 3 dimensions was the moment I was hooked. I actually beat every single portion of this game, and got every star to see that Yoshi cutscene thing at the end. I think a lot of gamers have forgotten how liberating that first moment with the game really was, though. Just running around and jumping was incredible.

Zelda was great, but I quit at the water temple stage and just watched my brother beat it instead.
Fronz's Avatar
Fronz at 10/28/2008 23:12
You and me both DanlHaas. The first time I stepped foot onto Hyrule (after a highly annoying yet cherished chat with an owl), I was impressed at first, but unaware at how blown away I was about to be. I only took a few steps out into the open before I stopped, my jaw dropped, and I put my controller on the ground for the next 5 minutes doing nothing but stare at the TV screen. The sun... it was moving. I HAD to see what would happen when it set, and sure enough, the environment completely changed, as did my childhood and career choice in life. Games trump novels and movies and music all thrown together.

Zelda 64 made me realize that games are truly the perfect medium to tell a story in, so I said fuck journalism and writing novels, I can try to do that on my own without a degree. I want to make games for a living. About exactly 10 years later, I have a degree in game design, and am a pseudo-journalist for one of the coolest sites on the Internet :) Hopefully the next decade is just as exciting.
PerfectSpade's Avatar
PerfectSpade at 10/28/2008 23:15
Legend of Zelda for me, it was way more epic back in the day.
nebones's Avatar
nebones at 10/28/2008 23:19
Mario
Fronz's Avatar
Fronz at 10/28/2008 23:21
@ CarltonBanksyo -- i completely agree. a lot of times i'll moan about not being born earlier, because i missed out on so much technology and electronics history, and probably could have been inside these industries sooner and accomplishing a lot more. but it's games like mario 64 that make me appreciate being born in 86. i was just old enough to have fallen in love with Mario on NES, and just young enough to be completely blown away by playing Mario 64 for 64 seconds. new gamers nowadays definitely take a lot for granted, mario 64 was one of the most profound "oh fuck" moments i've ever had in gaming. The first time in 3D Hyrule is still my number 1 moment though :)

Obviously I'm very nostalgic tonight!
Brass's Avatar
Brass at 10/28/2008 23:21
That's a toughie. Mario 64 was the quintessential introduction into the third realm of videogames, but Ocarina of Time was the template of perfection that most modern videogames stem from in terms of revolution and forward thinking.

I'm going to go with Zelda: Ocarina of Time for its ability to completely meld and entrance me with it's combination of storytelling, gameplay mechanics, and graphics. It's just a solid package, timeless to me even to this day.

As far as the best series overall, so long as we are speaking of the main Mario series and ignoring spin-offs, our favorite plumber takes the cake (or mushroom). You have to applaud the consistent gameplay innovation that occur every generation with Mario at the center of the medium. Zelda, on the other hand, is rooted in the same style of play and story for the past two decades, though the formula is hardly broken, it is far less enticing as a whole.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar
Samit Sarkar at 10/28/2008 23:22
Super Mario 64 completely reinvented platforming, so yeah, that's my choice. Also, I've never played Ocarina of Time (or any Zelda game, for that matter), so I've got to give my vote to the Italian plumber and his games.
Fronz's Avatar
Fronz at 10/28/2008 23:25
@Samit -- Ok, let's make a deal. Tell me what your all time favorite game is, and I will play it to the very end if you play Zelda 64 to the end. It's THAT good. I have to find ways in which to force my friends to experience it :)

I'm dead serious. We can podcast are experience if you want. You HAVE to play it. Name the game...
GohanGVO's Avatar
GohanGVO at 10/28/2008 23:27
As someone who failed to play either game until years after both came out, I have to go with 'Ocarina of Time.' The exploration aspect, adventure setting, and expansive feel really knocked my socks off.
AwesomeToph's Avatar
AwesomeToph at 10/28/2008 23:28
I'm voting for Zelda, because Mario wants to raise your taxes, take away your guns, and ship your jobs overseas.

Seriously, though, these are both excellent games and it was a very tough choice. But, there has been better Mario games since then, but I've yet to see a Zelda game match this one. It's made such an impact in gaming -- just say "water temple" around a group of gamers and see what happens.
deanhatescoffee's Avatar
deanhatescoffee at 10/28/2008 23:30
I'm going with Ocarina. The story was definitely superior and, although the Mario levels were definitely imaginative, Ocarina's levels were perhaps equally so and just as challenging. Ocarina's music was better, too.
Palidi's Avatar
Palidi at 10/28/2008 23:31
Zelda: OOT. Introduced Z-targeting, context sensitive buttons and actions, had a better camera overall. Mario 64 does get props for a first smooth transition to 3D, but more game mechanics from from OOT ARE STILL used in games today.

Also, to the bonus, I gotta say Zelda simply because the characters aren't whored out to the extent Mario is. Its a tough call though because each Mario game ACTUALLY MANAGES TO DISTINGUISH ITSELF FROM THE OTHERS.
bottled dark's Avatar
bottled dark at 10/28/2008 23:32
ocarina of time.
it was more than a collection of yellow stars. it was an epic adventure.
Krahsh's Avatar
Krahsh at 10/28/2008 23:37
No choice here for me, Zelda.
Zero_armada's Avatar
Zero_armada at 10/28/2008 23:37
Holy hell...I absolutely loved both games...I'm not sure where I'd be without either of them. I guess...I'd have to say...Super Mario 64, though it pains me to pick between them. It was either get N64 with this game or Sega Saturn with that 3D Sonic game...and I made the right choice.

Also, it was the first Mario game I beat before my brother.
Dexter345's Avatar
Dexter345 at 10/28/2008 23:37
Um. Super Mario 64. It was the game that brought games into 3D and did it right. Ocarina of Time did bring the series into 3D, and did it well, but it never seemed quite as elegant as Super Mario 64.
Dan CiTi's Avatar
Dan CiTi at 10/28/2008 23:38
Both have bad camera and controls, but Zelda still wins by a lot.

How the hell does Goldeneye win? That game blows. At least Smash Bros. is still fun.
Infinite Obscurity's Avatar
Infinite Obscurity at 10/28/2008 23:39
Mario 63 was pretty groundbreaking, but my vote goes to Ocarina of Time. The game had an unparalleled level of depth for its time, and I also found it to be the more enjoyable game.
Merry Ho's Avatar
Merry Ho at 10/28/2008 23:40
Although Super Mario 64 way my first 3-D gaming experience I have to say that OoT is my most cherished and memorable experience, I still remember pretty much the entire story, and sometimes will take a few days to to replay it.

Final Answer: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
gamadaya's Avatar
gamadaya at 10/28/2008 23:47
Oh wow. Jesus, I bet a lot of us could fill pages with our arguments. I'll say right now, my vote goes to Super Mario 64, but this is almost as close as you can make it. SM64 was the first console game I owned. I played it consistently for years, and even to this day I still play it as regularly as any other game. I can honestly say there is no nostalgic bias involved here. It's just that fucking good. Of course, the same can be said about OoT. I don't play it as much as SM64, but I still play it. This is pretty much unprecedented. Both games are over 10 years old, I have played both in the past 4 months, and I play both of them each year. As for how much ground both games broke when they came out, how much they raised the bar for future games, I can't even describe it. Frankly, they set that fucker so high that only 3 games since have been able to bring me that much fun. Mario 64 was fucking 3D. Nuf said. Zelda 64 was also 3D, but it was about 5 times as big and epic as anything before it. In terms of controls, both were fantastic. They both made the transition from 2D to 3D flawlessly, and they both introduced several incredible control aspects. They both had stunning graphics, and some of the best music in video games. Basically, both were literally everything that I could possibly ask for. But, SM64 takes the win. Don't get me wrong, these 2 games have switched places in my top 10 multiple times, and both have occupied the #1 spot on more than 1 occasion. Ranking these 2 was almost impossible for me. But I think SM64 has finally beat out OoT for good. The thing that put it over the top, the thing that may very well make it my favorite game ever, is the total freedom of the experience. I have never felt so free to do whatever I want in a video game than with SM64. OoT has a more rigid level design, and a more concrete set of rules governing your actions. With SM64, they basically built a level, tested it a few ways, and then said "If you can find another way to get the star, or some awesome bug, or another way to have fun that we didn't think of, go for it." That's it. They created a set of rules governing the controls, put together some levels, and then just let you run fucking wild. I am still finding new things to do in this game. Last year, I made it to the top of the castle where Yoshi is supposed to be with 0 stars. A year before that, I found out about the long jump glitch on the endless staircase. Before that, I found out a fun new game using the mushroom that follows you in Bomb-omb Battlefield. The list goes on back to 1996. And I know that I'm going to keep having fun with this game for years to come. It's the fucking epitome of a damn good game. 50 bucks bought me 12 years of fun.

I'm not sure I'll ever see another game like SM64. The combination of factors that came together to make it the best game ever would probably also make some of the worst games. Levels that are thrown together, loosely defined rules governing how your character interacts with the world, and a shit-ton of bugs doesn't sound like it would make a good game. I guess that this is just the kind of thing only Nintendo can pull off, and even then only maybe once in a generation.
gamadaya's Avatar
gamadaya at 10/28/2008 23:50
Oh yeah, and as for the second question, I literally don't know. I've tried to decide this too, but they're pretty much tied. Is Mario Kart part of the Mario series? If we're counting that, then I think I might give Mario the win there too.
sirinth's Avatar
sirinth at 10/28/2008 23:50
Vote: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Series: Zelda

Why: I love the mario series, however tA very big part of my childhood was spent playing the various Zelda games.
With the exception of Zelda II, the series has never let down. Even after turning the main character into what appears to be a power-puff girl. ;>.>

Mario reinspired me with Galaxy, but I think my opinion has been too diluted by all the random mario games like hoops 3 on 3, baseball, or strikers.
Crumpet Lips's Avatar
Crumpet Lips at 10/28/2008 23:53
Ocarina of Time hands down. One of the best games you will ever play.
gamadaya's Avatar
gamadaya at 10/28/2008 23:57
@Infinite Obscurity:
Dude, if you liked 63, you have to check out 64. It had everything 63 did, but it added a hat to Mario and got rid of the annoying grinding that plagued 63's leveling system.
falinter's Avatar
falinter at 10/28/2008 23:57
These debates are getting as bad as a few of the recent questions asked of Chad on the RFGO.

"Would you rather murder a dolphin in front of its parents or watch your fellow RTFGO castmates get hurt."

Its like that. I don't want to pick. But since your point a gun to my head... tLoZ:OoT
Aberrant Thought's Avatar
Aberrant Thought at 10/29/2008 00:01
Zelda, hands down.
SZ2K's Avatar
SZ2K at 10/29/2008 00:18
Well, Ocarina places in my top 5 games ever and Super Mario 64 doesn't =\ votes gotta go to Ocarina of Time

As a series, its definitely Mario
Why? Ocarina of Time was a great game, but it was the only Zelda game to ever capture my attention like it did. I hate to admit that although I got Twilight Princess at launch along with my Wii, I only played 35 hours of it getting to the temple in the air with all the freaky lookin chickens and by then it felt like it was being carried on way to long. Haven't touched it since.

Mario games on the other hand are always fun, the real ones anyways. Best series ever. It may be unfair that I was practically raised on Super Mario World (along with healthy doses of DBZ), but I'm just a platforming whore =\
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