8:30 PM on 09.28.2010 |
Fronz
In last week's debate we moved from the Valkyrie Profile series to the newer Valkyria Chronicles RPG series. Even though almost nobody had a single bad thing to say about the PSP sequel, the response was overwhelming for the first. Here are the results:
- Valkyria Chronicles -- (48 votes)
- Valkyria Chronicles II -- (4 votes)
This week we're discussing a series that spans two decades and several consoles and handheld devices. The Mana series -- known as Seiken Densetsu in Japan -- has had its strong points and weak points depending on who you talk to, so I'm eager to see which games get the most praise this week. As for the massive impending RPG debate tournament, we're almost ready to start the brackets! Just a few more weeks to go!
Which game in the Mana series is the best, and why? What sets your pick apart from the other games in the series? Sell me on the idea! Get me stoked to see it compete in the RPG tournament! Give it some serious thought, share your reasoning with all of us, and then check back next week to see how your game did!
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Contest:
The problem is, I can't figure out which one is the daughter...
Secret of Mana had such a huge place in my childhood. Of all the RPGs I've ever played, I've replayed that one over and over and over and never tired of it. So much sentimental value, it's like whoa.
But Seiken Densetsu 3... I've still played more times than I have Final Fantasy IV. I think I played that for almost a year straight after Corlett and Co. translated it.
I can't vote for either of them because I can't vote for both. =/
And that doesn't even include Legend of Mana, which I also put hundreds of hours into. Never experienced any kind of community gathering quite like being a part of the Yahoo Group that kept one-upping each other with the Blacksmith recipes to forge every week's new Best Weapon. The algorithms were so obscure, but it was so much fun to crack them and continue to discover something even better.
It had humor, plot, deep depth story line, secrets, a new way of traveling the world, all implement in a unparalleled way that I never experienced a JRPG.
I'm still crossing my fingers to, one day, see an official release for 3.
The second game was great. Simply put, it offered a Final Fantasy-sized world to everyone who loved Legend of Zelda, and then it backed it up with an appropriately expanded combat, plot, and characterization.
For me personally, I feel the series peaked with the third, unreleased-in-North America game. Put simply, it took everything that was great about the second game and expanded on everything to such a ludicrous degree that I'm amazed they even attempted a project of that scope. Not to mention the fact that the game had a LOT of replay value with the way you could pick alternate characters for the lead, meaning you could clear the game multiple times and see a completely new story each time.
Legend of Mana was a large step back from the previous two games in terms of story, though it was certainly was pretty to look at and fun to play. This marked the beginning of what became a rather rapid decline in the series instead of the slight dip in quality I'd hoped for.
While Sword of Mana was nice in that it was a remake of a game I liked, I thought overall it was a further step down from Legend of Mana in quality. The game was forced to follow a rather vanilla plot and after the spice of Legend's combat, it felt dated and old by comparison... And when placed alongside Seiken Densetsu 3 or Secret of Mana, the less said the better.
Children of Mana was a fucking dungeon crawl and marked the start of some seriously bizarre choices from Squaresoft. It was repetitive and annoying as hell. It looked like a series game if you squinted at it hard enough, but it was a marked drop from even Sword of Mana.
Dawn of Mana was a combination between SquareEnix fucking around with the Havok physics engine and fucking around with different, very random additions to make the basic idea of futzing about with your weapons more "interesting". This is probably the low-point for the series, in my humble opinion, since it could have been a good game if they hadn't tried to shoehorn in so much crap.
Finally, Heroes of Mana is a damned strategy game. Not what I look for when I pick up a series known for its action-RPG nature. While it had a pretty solid base (if weak AI), I didn't really get into it as much as I'dve liked.
Conclusion: Seiken Densetsu 3. It was a much-improved sequel to Secret of Mana, which would otherwise stand at the top of the pile.
But it's more than that. SD3 boasts a seven day calendar system, each day devoted to one of the elements so that on each element's day, their spells are stronger. And on Mana Holy Day, all spells are enhanced, and inns are all free! And there is a day/night cycle that is even more than a set of palette swaps that gradually change. Some enemies sleep at night. Werewolves go into weaker forms during the day. Some spells are stronger in the daylight.
And the music. My god the music. Hiroki Kikuta already gave chase to Yasunori and Nobuo with Secret of Mana, but SD3 even tops the second installment. Gorgeous piano melodies, somber string arrangements, upbeat and catchy tunes, this soundtrack has it all. Best yet, this is one of those games that uses a plethora of boss themes so that each boss gets a theme from the bunch that best accents the fight. Frantic duels get the faster Black Soup, the epic battle in the sky gets the high flying Hightension Wire, and so forth.
It's the ring system from SoM, and so much more for the interface. Each character has a unique weapon set and special moves for each. Hawk uses twin blades and strikes fast. Angela sticks with the wizard staff. Lise brandishes a spear. But the best is Kevin. By day he fights monk style with his bare hands and feet. By night, he goes into werewolf form and his attack speed and damage skyrocket. Plus his animation and howl going into wolf form is so satisfying.
But there's more. Each character has two opportunities to change class. They can go on the light or dark path. This means that at the start, your character is neutral. From there, they can go light or dark. After that, they can go light light or light dark if they went light first, or they can go dark dark or dark light if they went dark first. Each class change gives them more than a color swap, it determines what magic, special moves, and stats they get. In Duran's case, his equipment even changes as some of his classes can do a sword/shield combination. Multiply that by the three characters you get to choose and you have replay value that is through the roof.
Wrapping it all up is a superior story to the other titles. Each character has a well defined background, and plot threads unique to them throughout the game. They even manage to get some real tearjerking moments in there - see my blog entry on Kevin's story for a prime example. Not convinced yet? One of your modes of transportation (outside of a flammie) is a GIANT TURTLE WEARING A SCUBA MASK.
Whew.
I'll have to go with SoM because that's the one I actually beat. Plus 3 players. Can't remember if Seiken 3 did that.
Sword of Mana was so booooooring! It was a chore to finish it. Secret of Mana wins for me just because its the original and has a certain charm that the rest of the series didn't really recapture (in my opinion.)
So yeah. Secret of Mana.
Why?
Because its not-so-remade versions (Seiken Densetsu/FF Adventure) have chocobos.
Also, SD3 gets too damn much fanart. I mean, the Dark Lord/Shadow Knight and Julius are p cool, and one of the team members is a robot!
Still, I haven't played Seiken Densetsu 3, which is kinda awesome if you think about it. I've got all the delights of that game to come! Hope it gets an official release somehow on some platform...
I wrote a blog post about why waaaay waaay back when I actually blogged on this site.
I give it another go in short though, hehe =3
The art style is the first thing. Man, that game had some super pretty sprites and backdrop scenery, even if some of it was reused a lot.
The music was also top notch. Featuring composer Yoko Shimomura, the soundtrack featured many of the best work she did while she worked under Square.
Story, man was there tons of it. This was one of the very few games of the time to focus more on the story of the world and characters around you. Hell, in some quests, you literally were just following the characters out of interest without having your character really interact with them at all((and well, cause you needed to complete the quest to get past the area, lol)) The sidequests were plentiful, with many of them featuring characters in their own story arc spanning multiple quests. And the main storyline? Why... how about three main storylines... AND YOU CAN CHOOSE WHICH ONE TO PLAY THROUGH((or all three if you want)).
There's also a long spiel I could go on about the story, and the main theme of love that permeates every single storyline, and the subquest storylines, in which this world where love has become lost and twisted is returned to it's inhabitants as you help them overcome their problems, but that would be too long for a simple post like this one.((sorry about the run-on paragraph here btw >.<;))
And the gameplay... oh that gameplay. It was a little repetative, sure. But it was the first real((that I can remember)) hybrid mixing of side scrolling beat 'em up action with RPG stat building. And all the other features they tossed in to complement that. The co-op system, the ANY ITEM YOU WISH forging system, where you could forge ANY EQUIPMENT YOU WANT from ANY MATERIAL IN THE GAME and temper it with ANY OTHER ITEMS YOU WANTED, The pet raising system, the farming/gardening system what you can grow food to use with your pets or to temper your weapons, the instrument system what you can makes teh magic with, and the Skills/Special Techniques system, where you learn new skills and attack finishers based on what weapon type you use and what skills you like using with that weapon. OH JOY!!!! =D
Yeah, I think Legend of Mana really had a lot going for it. I feel that it really is the best game, and the high point of the whole Seiken Densetsu series. I can't tell you the countless hours over the years that I've sunk into that game, working on getting that one recipe for an overpowered weapon right, or training my pet Mushboom(kawaii <3) to be a more awesome combat partner. It really is a one of a kind gem, that I don't think can ever be replicated, with such a unique world and inhabitants and theme structure, but clearly has influenced some more recent games in their structure((notably, the recent hit Dragon Quest IX from what I am told of that game)). This one is definitely one for the history books.
Also, No Future Mode where EVERY SINGLE ENEMY IN THE GAME is Lv. 99 from the start. That was awesome alright =3
My vote goes to Legend of Mana, I've played that game more times than I'm willing to admit and the fact that you can alter and manipulate so many aspects of the game itself makes it a clear winner for me.
The best, hands down.
But I have to pick Seiken Densetsu 3. The music was just as great, the gameplay added a class and night/day system while keeping it action oriented, and the story was just as memorable and awesome as the previous game. It still confuses me that it was never officially localized or remade.
All Mana games after it are pretty much crap though.
Best. Game. Ever!
Even when you had friends over you could play together!