Last week we finished our PS2 odd debate brackets with a monstrous battle between Metal Gear Solid 2 and Shadow of the Colossus. Despite a few recent landslide wins, I have to say that I've never seen so many Dtoiders say "This was a really hard choice" in the comments as I have in the last month.
Last week in particular I heard a lot of different people saying the same thing, and I just want to let everyone know your words aren't going unnoticed. So, with a huge demand for a Colossus versus MGS 3 debate, I promise that I'll visit that topic as soon as this odd debate theme is finished for each console. As for last week, here are the results:
- Shadow of the Colossus (86 votes) -- Winner!
- Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (39 votes)
- Favorite Colossi:
- 1st: Phalanx (pictured below)
- 2nd: Avion, the Bird
- 3rd: Gaius, the Knight
This week we move on to two new games and a new console. Both games have different gameplay methods of focus, but both have something in similar. Both were surrounded by plenty of initial criticism for not delivering the desired next step of their series (cough, Mario 128 tech demo, sob, sob, sob, cough, Ganondorf fight tech demo, expletive, expletive, expletive, cough).
So how did the two games end up doing? Which combination of gameplay, setting and story did you enjoy more? Which game do you think is better, and why? Give it some serious thought, get some Gamecube childhood friends to share their opinions as well, and check back next week for the winner.
Bonus Question: Would you like to see another Luigi game any time soon? What about a "Celda" game for the Wii?
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I'm going to go with Wind Waker. I've never played Luigi's Mansion but I would assume Wind Waker would rock a lot more.
Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. No contest.
Re: Bonus Question: Yes, and yes.
Neither are the greatest games for me, but wind waker defiantly takes it for me.
Wind Waker all the way. I loved it and although not very well received at the time, I would love to see another cell shaded Zelda game for the Wii that is as original as Wind Waker. Fanboys really don't know what they want most of the time.
who the hell is Luigi?....
Zelda all the way
Meh, neither are fantastic. Celda over Luigi's Mansion.
Who the hell is Luigi?....
Zelda WW all the way
Wind Waker just for the great graphics.
Which one has a better cover box?
I don't know about you guys, but even after Super Mario Sunshine (an inverse tool mechanic of Luigi's Mansion) and even Super Mario Galaxy and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, I still feel a bit unfulfilled. Like both series could and probably should be going in new and different directions. Sometimes I'm just as fickle and hard to demand as your average gamer customer though :/
In my mind, Luigi's Mansion can't get my vote. It was a lot of fun, but felt more like a large tech demo. As innovative as that haunted mansion was, and as foreshadowing as that vacuum was of the FLUDD device in Sunshine, it just didn't feel completely fulfilling. When I got my Nintendo 64, I got to open it on Xmas and play Ocarina of Time AND Super Mario 64. When I got my Gamecube, I got to clean a dusty house like some sort of cartoon nanny. It's hard to be upset when the game's still a good game, but I was upset nonetheless.
Wind Waker broke my Ganon loving heart and ruined my tech demo sploojing pants. It is not what I wanted at all, but it at least delivered a large and fulfilling experience. Luigi's Mansion was beaten in under a weak, destined to collect its own un-vacuumable dust, but Wind Waker kept me going much longer, and added a lot to the Zelda series.
Could Wind Waker have been better? Definitely, but it still has many more memories than Luigi's Mansion which was essentially one room cloned a hundred times.
VOTE: Wind Waker.
BONUS: I would SOOOOO love to see an Ocarina of Time prequel trilogy, where you play Ganon when he's a kid, and learn why he turned evil. Then game two you play as Zelda (Sheik) during the time that Ganon comes to power and Link is busy being a Sleeping Princess. The journey to become a Sheik would be fun, and explore plenty of backstory. And game three could Tie up all the loose ends, let you play as multiple characters as an optional multiplayer zelda experience, and finally explore the legendary N64 Sky Temple that never made the cut for Ocarina of Time's design.
And Luigi? I say they go back to Paper Mario's gameplay roots, and make a Paper Luigi.
Your welcome, Nintendo, I just gave you four million dollar ideas. Now stop being lazy.
So the decision is easy
Are you fucking kidding me? Easiest one ever.
Zelda
You're killing me smalls...I mean Fronz, this is no debate! I love Luigi, and luigi's mansion was cool for what it was. But damnit, it sucks out loud compared to Windwaker on any point you want to debate about. The story for Luigi's mansion, what story? The gameplay, while refreshing and different, was mostly annoying and awkward against multiple ghosts. The graphics? I won't even go there. But the thing that seals the deal for me? It's the boss fight comparison. A ghost impersonating bowser in what has to be the cheapest, most annoying boss fight in nintendo history, versus and awesome battle against the dark wizard gannondorf underneath the ocean atop Hirule Castle. NO comparison, game over, press start, case closed.
My Vote is for Legend of Zelda Windwaker.
...and sorry if there's any huge Luigi's mansion fans out there, I just like Windwaker alot.
I don't really like either of these. And no I don't dislike Wind Waker for aesthetics, I actually love those, and the music for the game. However I never felt comfortable with the flow of the game and as much as I actually liked sailing, couldn't really get anywhere useful with it. I'm basically saying I got lost and found the game really confusing.
Never even played Luigi's Mansion, but the OneUps cover of it's theme is awesome.
So.... no vote =X.
Who the hell is Luigi?....
Zelda WW all the way
Windwaker!
While Wind Waker had a plethora of flaws (curse you expansive ocean...), I was smitten by the CelShading and characters dispersed through the islands. While it's not the pinnacle of the series, it definitely holds its own.
Luigi's Mansion on the other hand... I actually logged more time playing Zelda II on my GC than this. I just wasn't enjoying myself while playing. You'll always be hidden in your basement beneath Mario house Luigi, sorry.
Vote: Wind Waker
Windwaker for me. Bouns Question anwser: Another Celda title.
The Wind Waker, easily.
Honestly, I wasn't even able to complete the first level of Luigi's Mansion. I decided mindlessly toggling the analog stick while staring at my powerless tv was more beneficial to my entertainment needs.
Update: I added the winners of last week's bonus question.
And I feel like I should mention something else as well. I don't see this Gamecube portion of the odd debate tournament running too terribly smoothly. There's honestly not a lot of games to work with, and pretty much no matter how I sliced it for the four games I picked, it always looked a little ugly.
I'm still considering a few different matchups for next week, I think I'm going to settle on the two artsy titles, but then that opens itself up for a week three slaughter. Or, I could pick Super Smash Bros Melee and any other game next week, and then there will be a big slaughter next week, followed by a kind of cliche Miyamoto incorporate showdown conclusion.
What I guess I'm trying to say is, let's try not to kill each other over the next two weeks of debates, then we can move on to some more really unique games. Oh wait, the next console is Xbox and that means picking four games that aren't Halo.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
AKA, feel free to suggest some Xbox games you'd like to see go head to head.
Sweep?
Wind Waker.
Luigi's Mansion was a fun game, and it reminds me of my favorite ride at Disney World (Peter Pan, of course), so that's cool. And it was interesting how they bucked tradition and said "You want a Mario game at luanch? too bad, here's his brother and a vacuum cleaner instead." But it was by no means a "great" game, just a fun diversion that was interesting and unique in the great scheme of Nintendo games.
I know this isn't the most popular opinion, but Wind Waker is my favorite game in the Zelda series, and one of my favorite games of all time. Whereas Twilight Princess, while a very good game, hits you over the head with references to Ocarina, Wind Waker somehow manages to pull off the feat of being more dependent on the events of that game while at the same time not feeling like a complete retread. Most of the references were more subtle (the tiny quote of the Lost Woods theme in the Forest Haven), while the bigger references were just awesome (the stature of the Hero of Time in the frozen Hyrule Castle, for example). And I absolutely love the way the prologue is presented. I got chills as the Zelda theme began playing when the Hero was mentioned.
And "yes" to both bonus questions, as long as they keep Luigi as funny as he's been in the various RPG games. I like Fronz's idea, a Paper Luigi would be awesome. How about we see the adventure he kept talking about during Thousand Year Door? And what about a director's cut of Wind Waker, which would include the dungeons that are rumored to have been removed?
And so ends my much-too-long comment.
Wind Waker was my favourite Zelda game ever, it definitely gets my vote.
Wind Waker
no contest
Honestly, I got Luigi's Mansion on launch day, played through it twice, and never touched it again. And I was one of those gamers that played absolutely everything over. Like, even Star Fox Adventures.
Anyway, in retrospect, it was a damn fine game. Great graphics (mind blowing at the time) plus a pretty fun mechanic. It was also really atmospheric and had great music.
That said, Wind Waker has all of that in its left pinky. It might be my favorite Gamecube title. Everything about playing that game is just delightful. The beautiful cel shading, the vast, open expanse of water... the first time you take off in your little boat, with the sun up above and the wind at your back, it's truly exhilarating. Brilliant sound design all around doesn't hurt either.
Must agree with some others, this is a super easy one. I kinda feel bad for Luigi cuz I always liked him better than Mario but come on, seriously... He is setup to fail...
Windwaker is the obvious, must choose choice.
@Fronz: Xbox suggestions: Ninja Gaiden, Jade Empire, Psychonauts, Morrowind, KOTOR, to name a few.
Vote already casted.
Luigi's Mansion. I played the shit out of it, and just really didn't like Wind Waker. Granted, it was and still is my only Zelda, but I just didn't like it as much as Luigi's Mansion.
Guess I'm in a minority here. It could be more due to me having played LM a lot more, but screw it, Luigi all the way.
Oh, and bonus questions: Yes and God Yes. Luigi might be Nintendo's most interesting character right now. If you've been paying attention, they've been putting a little bit of a dark side on him for a while now, and for a central Nintendo character to get any semblance of depth like that is pretty unprecedented. As for the Celda, I'd love it, but I doubt it'll happen. Nintendo seems content to leave the Celda look for handheld and side-adventures like four swords. It works, sure, but I'd like to see Toon Link in the spotlight again. Admittedly there are things I'd rather see happen with the core of that franchise, but more Celda would certainly not be a bad thing.
Wind Waker was the first Zelda game I ever played, and every other Zelda game feels like a backwards step in every way. If it wasn't for the rather clunky Triforce shard search in the end, it'd be my favorite game of all time.
Ocarina of Time is impossible for me to go back to, for WW took the series in all the right directions, and I would kill for a new Celda. To compare it to Luigi's Mansion is foolish, as LM is garbage and lame.
WW...I could go on about that game forever. The music is more memorable than OoT, the graphics stand up today (unlike the headache-inducing OoT), the characters are so much fun, the plot, the charm, the black & white world (which is the best Zelda moment ever IMO), the transformations, the plot twists, everything is great.
Also, it's the first Zelda that tried to explain the arc canon of the Zelda universe, and does it well. Also, lobster PJs. And the tinkly plant freaks. And bird people. and picture taking. and the booger kid.
Actually, the booger kid is why WW wins.
Windwaker
zelda.. total classic.. and nintendo failed by moving away from windwalkers style.
Wind Waker.
In terms of gameplay, other than the tedious Triforce fetch quest and constant sailing, Wind Waker was fantastic. The graphics and art style still look beautiful and the music has some memorable tunes while the characters, enemies and story are among the best in the Zelda series.With that said, Twilight Princess did have better equipment from the claw shot and bow and arrow to the charged sword swing using the Wii controls which really improved those items and made them more enjoyable to use. I deeply hated using the bow and arrow and hook shot in Wind Waker as they felt so archaic and imprecise to use in comparison to the bow and arrow in Twilight Princess Wii version.
I hope Nintendo chooses to useh another new graphical art style for the next Zelda game despite all of the people who complained about the one in Wind Waker. I also
I hope Nintendo gets creative and offers something surprisingly new and refreshing with the next Zelda but still stays true to the game's roots like how Nintendo did with Mario Galaxy.The franchise is still great but the traditional game design formula has indeed grown stale over the years.
This is going to be a massacre. Luigi's Mansion, just so that it doesn't look as pathetic when we see the scores.
Bonus questions: Why the hell not? I don't like the direction TP took things, and even though WW is one of my least favorite Zelda games, it still has a lot more charm and a much better look than TP. I think they could make it work on the Wii very well, but then again, what's the incentive to do so? It'll probably just be a lazy port if it even happens. As for the Luigi game question, I don't really care. Go ahead I guess.
WW for sure.
I liked the charm and graphics, but hated the triforce part.
It was tedious and just artificially extended the game.
The final boss fight was awesome though.
Wind Waker, hands down. It's a far more immersive experience than Luigi's Mansion ever was. Hell, this week's game debate seems a bit unfair, for Luigi's Mansion, that is.
Oh, and for the bonus questions, if they make one, then sure, and HELL YES. In that order.
Pretty easy, Luigi's Mansion. I just enjoyed it more. I love the look of Wind Waker, but Luigi's Mansion was so cool and such a different style of game that is rarely seen from Nintendo that I can't imagine not wanting a sequel that's a bit more expansive(Bonus Question Answered, BAM!).
...seriously?
Wind Waker, all the way. Probably my favorite Zelda of all time.
I like both of these games, but I'm going with Zelda. In my opinion it's one of the best Zelda games ever made.
xbox games? damn, there's actually a good amount I would suggest. Fable, Knights of the Old Republic 1 OR 2, Splinter Cells if they count, Halo 1+2, and more that I can't think of.
I enjoyed Luigi's Mansion for what it was, the controls were a bit aucward at times but once you got used to them it was a unique and very fun game, however The Wind Waker will always be first in my heart as it was the very first Zelda game I ever played.
It's controls were perfect, the art was gorgeous with unparalleled draw distances, and the music is Koji Kondo's best in my opinion, the Ocean Theme brings out the feel of an epic adventure and the ending theme moves me to tears almost every time...granted that's probably for other reasons not associated with the game itself. Tedium of the Triforce hunt aside I feel, very strongly, that Wind Waker is one of video gamings greatest achievments. For me (And I highly emphasise that this is my opinion only and I realise its probably not shared by many) Wind Waker is a game I would rather play for story, characters, music, mood, and art then any half-life, bioshock, portal, mario, metroid, final fantasy, or almost anything else. Except maybe Okami.
Really?
REALLY?
The two don't even compare! Both games were beautiful, but Wind Waker made the most of its aesthetics.
WW had brilliant music, great characters, and the most epic face-stabbing in Nintendo history.
Wind Waker for me.
Bonus: No, and maybe. I love WW's look, but I like how Nintendo constantly presents the Zelda games in different ways.
@link331 -- I planned on doing Jade Empire, and Ninja Gaiden for sure. Kotor and Oblivion I didn't want to have to use, but I might.
This is the easiest question ever, Zelda
. . . wind waker . . .
Usually I would vote for Wind Waker in an instant, but having just gone back and played Mansion, I have to pause.
Luigi's Mansion is actually a very solid game, not because of it's gameplay, but because of everything else. It sets a wonderful tone, which is made of both a quirky self-conciousness and simple silliness. How many games do you know where the main character sings along with the music? We need games with as much originality as Luigi's Mansion.
I vote for Mansion.
As to the second question, I feel like a new Celda would just be Zelda with a different coat of paint. I think a new Luigi game has more potential to bring something new to the table.
How the fuck could you like Phalanx? That was easily the worst, most insanely easy, and inanely frustrating colossus of the entire game. I'm reasonably sure it's not even possible to lose to it unless you intentionally jump off it about 6 times within the span of a few minutes.
In summary, I vote for Zelda.
Never was a Zelda Fan, vote for Luigi simply had more fun with it
I vote for Zelda.
Bonus: I would be highly interested in a new Luigi game. Zelda would just be an automatic. So, Yes and Yes.
Wind Waker
Wind Waker was the first Zelda game I finished.. IE, wanted, to actually finish (not a huge Zelda fan)
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