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@ AClockWorkMelon
I agree.
P.S.
I literally just put my install disc back into my computer for Age of Conan. So I go online to start back up my account and see this article (Dtoid is my homepage)... is this fate that I should never play this game again, or keep the MMO alive, even if I must stand alone?
I agree.
P.S.
I literally just put my install disc back into my computer for Age of Conan. So I go online to start back up my account and see this article (Dtoid is my homepage)... is this fate that I should never play this game again, or keep the MMO alive, even if I must stand alone?
Yeah I agree, that kinda sux that no one can really make it big with WoW hovering over them. I can see why its hard to stray from WoW though. Blizzard has fixed all the problems other MMOs have had. The main thing is that you always feel like you accomplished something in WoW. Even if you only sit down for 30 min.
Conan needs to go the way of the Chinese manufacturers and make it cheaper. If Conan undercut the competition by charging only $9.95 they would have been able to capture more MMO fans.
As an ex-mmo'er, I think that if any company wants to make a dent in the industry, they have to provide a few things :
1) Active & Plentiful Participants : If you play game with dwindling players or perceived dwindling players, it's tough to stay on a ship that you think is sinking. Especially when your closest gaming buds have left already. An active server population is the most important aspect to a game's life.
2) Niche : It has to appeal to what you like. If I'm not into cyberpunk, No matter how good it may be, I might not ever want to play Shadowrun the MMORPG.
3) Investiture : people have a lot invested in their current game. Time, subscription money, friends. This makes people hesitant to switch. If there were meaningful incentives to switch for serious gamers with a lot of time invested in their old games, you might see a little more action.
1) Active & Plentiful Participants : If you play game with dwindling players or perceived dwindling players, it's tough to stay on a ship that you think is sinking. Especially when your closest gaming buds have left already. An active server population is the most important aspect to a game's life.
2) Niche : It has to appeal to what you like. If I'm not into cyberpunk, No matter how good it may be, I might not ever want to play Shadowrun the MMORPG.
3) Investiture : people have a lot invested in their current game. Time, subscription money, friends. This makes people hesitant to switch. If there were meaningful incentives to switch for serious gamers with a lot of time invested in their old games, you might see a little more action.
How does one break WoW's stranglehold? Licensed IPs! DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, and to a lesser extent, Stargate all have a chance at holding strong ground against WoW because they'll bring in fans of the franchise that may not have been MMO fans before.
As a fan of all games and having tried multiple MMOs (including wow war conan eq2 lotro ffxi) One of the major things that wow does to keep it's hold sounds stupid but is try, IT RUNS. I remember playing in beta and the first few months of conan everyone was discussing how extreme their machine had to be to get a decent frame rate. World of Warcraft will run smoothly on any $500 computer from walmart now. The system requirements say it will run on a Radeon 7200....we're talking like 9 year old graphics cards supporting this game. While it might not look as amazing as my Geforce 9800 gtx runs the game, at least everyone can run it smoothly. The pacing is also fantastic, as wolflive stated even if you only play for 30 min, you accomplished something. But really what WOW has more then every other mmo I've ever seen is, an almost load free world. you actually feel like it's a living breathing planet. There's loading going between the continents, and loading between original zones and expansion zones, and before you go into an instance (which is understandable because that part of the world is only you and your party) Blizzard knows how to make games and make them last, While C&C comes out with it's "Deacade of" box priced at like $30, Blizzard is still makeing $20 off of starcraft and it's single expansion pack.
I don't think switching over is the problem. People always remember the first time they logged into a foreign world and how it's always awe-inspiring. People WANT to experience new things. The problem is the MMOs being released have too many shortcomings and publishers look at the huge pie WoW has made for itself and think any medicore product will net them a sizable slice. Age of Conan was terrible after level 20 and was just an all around awful game. Warhammer Online has struggled to find an identity since its release and is still marred by class and population imbalances, harsh level grind, fortress instabilities, a faulty contribution system, lack of item aesthetics, and a host of other problems.
World of Warcraft has problems too but it's strength is that there is just SO MUCH to do that you can overlook some faults in one or two aspects of the game to experience the extreme polish of others. It's rewarding to play WoW. You're always getting some new item, some new skill, some new achievement, some new enchantment. There's like a thousand little things to look forward to when playing it.
World of Warcraft has problems too but it's strength is that there is just SO MUCH to do that you can overlook some faults in one or two aspects of the game to experience the extreme polish of others. It's rewarding to play WoW. You're always getting some new item, some new skill, some new achievement, some new enchantment. There's like a thousand little things to look forward to when playing it.
You're right, with Everquest/ParadisePoker/MySpace/yahoo having over 80% dominance in its category, it's impossible for wow/partypoker/facebook/google to make any kind of inroads and we'll...oh shi-
Every extreme market leader is untoppleable, until they aren't.
Every extreme market leader is untoppleable, until they aren't.
As an avid WoW player for a year, I will tell you why other games fail; other companies are not trying after the fact.
What is any game other than WoW like? - amazing until endgame, then the company DOES NOT try anymore. Take Warhammer, Conan, Everquest, Ultima, anything.
WoW? They only add end-game content after the fact. They add countless dungeons post production. This satisfies all the hardcores who keep playing for gear, and all the casuals who want to think they will do that, and aspire to get level 80.
As a game, I enjoyed Warhammer better. You get XP for achievements, and PVP combat. AWESOME! I really dug that game. What happened at the end? Shitty endgame content, no characteristic quality about dungeons, and the lore fell apart after all the quests were said and done. The lore BEGINS at end-game for WoW.
People are still excited for this game and the Lich King ISNT EVEN in the game yet! That's amazing. That's why people still play WoW. Because Blizzard tries, and knows how to keep people playing. Other companies just rush out a game, think it's great, then gloat.
Bring in a licensed IP like Knights of the Old Republic. Slap that fancy battle system in there (they did), and promise awesome end game raids on evil jedi temples, tuskan raider colonies, shit like that. TELL me that any MMO fan won't be there over WoW. Trust me, even the hardcores of WoW are sick of it at this point. There's just no where else to go. A guild/community gets to a point where they don't want to break up the comradeship, but have no where else to go. They keep playing WoW.
What is any game other than WoW like? - amazing until endgame, then the company DOES NOT try anymore. Take Warhammer, Conan, Everquest, Ultima, anything.
WoW? They only add end-game content after the fact. They add countless dungeons post production. This satisfies all the hardcores who keep playing for gear, and all the casuals who want to think they will do that, and aspire to get level 80.
As a game, I enjoyed Warhammer better. You get XP for achievements, and PVP combat. AWESOME! I really dug that game. What happened at the end? Shitty endgame content, no characteristic quality about dungeons, and the lore fell apart after all the quests were said and done. The lore BEGINS at end-game for WoW.
People are still excited for this game and the Lich King ISNT EVEN in the game yet! That's amazing. That's why people still play WoW. Because Blizzard tries, and knows how to keep people playing. Other companies just rush out a game, think it's great, then gloat.
Bring in a licensed IP like Knights of the Old Republic. Slap that fancy battle system in there (they did), and promise awesome end game raids on evil jedi temples, tuskan raider colonies, shit like that. TELL me that any MMO fan won't be there over WoW. Trust me, even the hardcores of WoW are sick of it at this point. There's just no where else to go. A guild/community gets to a point where they don't want to break up the comradeship, but have no where else to go. They keep playing WoW.
This is just my oppinion but i'd say the only way to break through the WoW barrier would be Innovation. I think many people dont want to play a new fantasy MMO when they could just join a highly sucessful and established one such as WoW. I think to get new people you need a new type of MMO possibly able to mix genres into itself to attract customers. I also think the cross platforms would definately help letting people on the PC play with others on the 360 or such that cant afford a decent Computer.
I wrote a blog post a few months ago here that I think suggests a few answers on the questions at the end.
I do feel that there is alot of space for competition and innovation in the MMO space. I think the biggest problem is that developers are failing to realize the tons of opportunities out there for an MMO that is not like WoW and not a giant fantasy world type of MMO with 11.5 million subscribers. Instead, you have companies like Funcom and EA Mythic and Sony (was it Sony who did Vanguard) who keep trying to outdo WoW at its own game without realizing that 1) it's hard to compete content-wise with a game that has a 4+ year lead on you and 2) the audience is smart enough to eventually realize that most of the so-called innovations that these games are promising are little more than the same stuff WoW and others have already done with a different name.
There is so much room open and opportunities for experimentation, expanding the market, etc that it just astounds me that these developers are arrogant and stupid enough to waste so much time and effort trying to complete with WoW. I've played WoW since day 1 and I feel like I and many others are very open and interested in trying something new. I know I personally have picked up and played City of Heroes and Eve Online for a bit, two of the few MMOs out there that are doing their own thing. Why would I ever put my money towards buying another MMO that is essentially the same experience I have had for years?
I do feel that there is alot of space for competition and innovation in the MMO space. I think the biggest problem is that developers are failing to realize the tons of opportunities out there for an MMO that is not like WoW and not a giant fantasy world type of MMO with 11.5 million subscribers. Instead, you have companies like Funcom and EA Mythic and Sony (was it Sony who did Vanguard) who keep trying to outdo WoW at its own game without realizing that 1) it's hard to compete content-wise with a game that has a 4+ year lead on you and 2) the audience is smart enough to eventually realize that most of the so-called innovations that these games are promising are little more than the same stuff WoW and others have already done with a different name.
There is so much room open and opportunities for experimentation, expanding the market, etc that it just astounds me that these developers are arrogant and stupid enough to waste so much time and effort trying to complete with WoW. I've played WoW since day 1 and I feel like I and many others are very open and interested in trying something new. I know I personally have picked up and played City of Heroes and Eve Online for a bit, two of the few MMOs out there that are doing their own thing. Why would I ever put my money towards buying another MMO that is essentially the same experience I have had for years?
I remember reading an interview with the devs that went around the lines of "Yeah, once you hit the level cap there really isn't anything much to do... whoops"
WHOOPS indeed.
WHOOPS indeed.
I went balls to the wall with a bunch of people from WoW when Conan first came out. the main problem w/conan was that they never actually came through with what they promised. For example, the player cities and bases that you was suppose to be what made this MMO stand out never worked even close to what gamers were promised. Conan also never released a single update for my class, ranger, within the first 2 months, while certain other classes were getting the high life of new things. I left WoW because of all the things Conan said would set it apart from WoW. Unfortunately they never came through with it and I ended up back at WoW within 6 weeks of the release of Conan.
As to what an MMO needs to have an upper hand on WoW, I will agree that KOTOR MMO is a very promising title. The main problem isn't as much as WoW as it is Blizzard. They patch and update the shit out of there games to keep customers happy. Along with the fact that it has low CPU requirements, Blizzard makes the player in WoW feel like they must always be raiding due to the amount of content still to be explored once the character reaches the max level. Most other MMO's that I have played don't have as much of an extension of gameplay that exists once the player reaches max level.
As to what an MMO needs to have an upper hand on WoW, I will agree that KOTOR MMO is a very promising title. The main problem isn't as much as WoW as it is Blizzard. They patch and update the shit out of there games to keep customers happy. Along with the fact that it has low CPU requirements, Blizzard makes the player in WoW feel like they must always be raiding due to the amount of content still to be explored once the character reaches the max level. Most other MMO's that I have played don't have as much of an extension of gameplay that exists once the player reaches max level.
I'm not a big mmo fan but I was going to try this game, but then the reports that you get to level 20 and pretty much there is nothing left to do. So I didn't even bother.
But Guildwars (while not 100% mmo) has been very successful. Curious to see how Guildwars 2 does.
Also can't wait for the Fallout MMO. I'm all over that stank.
But Guildwars (while not 100% mmo) has been very successful. Curious to see how Guildwars 2 does.
Also can't wait for the Fallout MMO. I'm all over that stank.
Well this sucks. I like MMOs quite a bit as it gives me something I can play with my brother casually and chat about things at the same time. We were going to get LoTRO and try playing something that we actually know the universe of. I hope it doesn't sink too.
Some WoW players are looking for anything new that comes along. The problem is that everyone is failing at very important aspects of the game.
Take WAR, for example. IMO AoC looks a lot better. AoC runs 10x better on my machine than WAR does (both at max settings). To even make WAR compete with WoW (wrt graphics), you need a beefy machine. Blizzard just knows how to make the most of what it has.
WAR has the PvP down pretty well, but how can it compete when all your friends in WoW can't jump in and play because of outdated machines? Why does it run so poorly yet look worse than AoC?
You'd think it would be easy at this point. WoW is already a guide to what draws a lot of players. All someone would have to do is take what WoW does well and implement it then take what WoW does poorly and improve upon it. Wrap it up in a new package (like AoC's world/graphics), and poof - new hit.
Take WAR, for example. IMO AoC looks a lot better. AoC runs 10x better on my machine than WAR does (both at max settings). To even make WAR compete with WoW (wrt graphics), you need a beefy machine. Blizzard just knows how to make the most of what it has.
WAR has the PvP down pretty well, but how can it compete when all your friends in WoW can't jump in and play because of outdated machines? Why does it run so poorly yet look worse than AoC?
You'd think it would be easy at this point. WoW is already a guide to what draws a lot of players. All someone would have to do is take what WoW does well and implement it then take what WoW does poorly and improve upon it. Wrap it up in a new package (like AoC's world/graphics), and poof - new hit.
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Caveat-Emptor/The-MMO-Crash-of-2008
Thought everyone should read this.
Thought everyone should read this.
@ MotoRobo
Everquest III will not compete with WoW whatsoever. Everyone said that about Everquest II when it came out to compete with WoW, and my friends and I tried it for a bit. It sucked. The problem with Everquest is when it's not the only 3d MMO on the market, it lacks personality. I agree that so many people will be sick of WoW and switch when it comes out, but it will never amount to the success of 12 million+ people. The game is so god damn boring!
They really can't get any more casual-drawing than a KOTOR MMO. If they support that game and promise a lot early on, people will flock over so fast it'll make Blizzard's head spin. Give it 3-4 years for WoW to saturate, and you have yourself a winner. Otherwise companies are going to keep doing what they're doing; niche titles; because it's easy.
Everquest III will not compete with WoW whatsoever. Everyone said that about Everquest II when it came out to compete with WoW, and my friends and I tried it for a bit. It sucked. The problem with Everquest is when it's not the only 3d MMO on the market, it lacks personality. I agree that so many people will be sick of WoW and switch when it comes out, but it will never amount to the success of 12 million+ people. The game is so god damn boring!
They really can't get any more casual-drawing than a KOTOR MMO. If they support that game and promise a lot early on, people will flock over so fast it'll make Blizzard's head spin. Give it 3-4 years for WoW to saturate, and you have yourself a winner. Otherwise companies are going to keep doing what they're doing; niche titles; because it's easy.
Wow wasn't prefect when it came out either. I played at launch and the end game wasn't much better around the same time as games such as WAR.
The thing Blizzard did was made it easy for you to get hooked by giving you a trial that allowed to get far enough to say "I want more!!". You found these trails everywhere, in gamestores, mags, the game itself. They knew the 50 bucks you paid for the game wasn't their bread and butter, it would be the monthly payment.
Myself, I quit WoW in the summer due to endgame and the fact the level cap was being raised. As a man who has little time on his hands It takes a while to push toward that gear and evertime I almost get what I want, they have released a new level cap and made those hours worth garbage.
So, I will hold on to my dream that one day a free MMO will be decent enough to steal my time.
The thing Blizzard did was made it easy for you to get hooked by giving you a trial that allowed to get far enough to say "I want more!!". You found these trails everywhere, in gamestores, mags, the game itself. They knew the 50 bucks you paid for the game wasn't their bread and butter, it would be the monthly payment.
Myself, I quit WoW in the summer due to endgame and the fact the level cap was being raised. As a man who has little time on his hands It takes a while to push toward that gear and evertime I almost get what I want, they have released a new level cap and made those hours worth garbage.
So, I will hold on to my dream that one day a free MMO will be decent enough to steal my time.
WOW's success is based of three principles:
- It's a decent game.
- It's hyped and popular in mainstream media.
- It runs on shitty Pentium III machines.
The last principle being the most important of them all. I've seen people play it at 15fps and not give a damn, as long as they can play it.
- It's a decent game.
- It's hyped and popular in mainstream media.
- It runs on shitty Pentium III machines.
The last principle being the most important of them all. I've seen people play it at 15fps and not give a damn, as long as they can play it.
Actually, I liked AOC... and very much so...
But, on the other hand, I also liked Haze, so go figure...
But, on the other hand, I also liked Haze, so go figure...
I agree with kingsfan626 also, If conan lowerd their price to say...$5 per month I think that more people would be willing to remain subscribers for a longer period of time. I know I would stay subscribed even though I spend most of my time on wow, I can probably get $5 out of playing conan per month
Having played quite a few MMOs, I think the reason why WoW is still so dominant is quite obvious. That reason is because all other fantasy MMOs don't do enough to differentiate themselves from WoW. Sure, they may be prettier. They might even have some minor improvements. But for the most part they play almost identically to WoW, just with different characters and areas to explore. WoW players may take up a new game for a few months. But they soon realize they are playing the same game.
The first MMO to really offer something new and innovative is going to earn people's money. I'm hoping we are going to see that with SW:TOR.
The first MMO to really offer something new and innovative is going to earn people's money. I'm hoping we are going to see that with SW:TOR.
It's a damn shame. Wow is almost (well, it is) stagnating the mmo market, and there's little room for anyone to try anything new, because they'll get crushed because of WoW's accessability and ease. Games like Eve have a good chance because they're more of a niche game, and never really set out to be the biggest mmo ever.
Halo MMO with a /beer command that would call the nearest bar and have them send over a bear. Every frat boy in America would play that.
I'm not looking to quit WoW any time soon, but I'm always willing to try something promising. I played AoC for awhile, but even from the get-go it was really disappointing. The only thing that impressed me was the level of character customization, which made WoW's already shitty options look even worse.
I'm an ex-WoW player, and quit when I realised that it was more work than fun. I felt obligated to play, because of the involvement with friends, guildmates and the general game populace. As a game, I found it very, very mediocre.
I concluded that WoW is popular because it is popular. Imagine WoW without the mulitplayer aspect, with bots filling the roles of other players. You wouldn't bother, because without the social aspect it is nothing.
I'd love to see a game that I would enjoy playing solo, with the involvement of other humans being an added benefit. As most people have observed, the vast majority of MMO's that have been released and flopped have been buggy and incomplete, the only appeal coming from a 'niche' and limited social utility that WoW provided better.
I concluded that WoW is popular because it is popular. Imagine WoW without the mulitplayer aspect, with bots filling the roles of other players. You wouldn't bother, because without the social aspect it is nothing.
I'd love to see a game that I would enjoy playing solo, with the involvement of other humans being an added benefit. As most people have observed, the vast majority of MMO's that have been released and flopped have been buggy and incomplete, the only appeal coming from a 'niche' and limited social utility that WoW provided better.
I have to agree with Flying Egg. I also think that if the SW & ST MMOs (both of which I will play given I'm a fan of both franchises) fail to deliver on those key points developers other then AB should just give up on MMO action - for a monthly fee anyway...
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