[Subenu]

Hello everyone,
since I participated on many discussions considering Literary canon, I asked myself if there is a canon for videogames. But first, what is a canon? Well, let's see what the literary canon is:

(quote by Count_Zero)
Literary Canon refers to books and other pieces of literature that are widely studied and respected due to their cultural significance, due to their quality, or due to their general importance with regards to fiction writing in general.

And, yes, there is an official Video Game Canon by the library of congress. Thanks to wikipedia I can provide a full list:

* Spacewar!
* Star Raiders
* Zork
* Tetris
* SimCity
* Super Mario Bros. 3
* Civilization I/II
* Doom
* Warcraft series
* Sensible World of Soccer

As you can see, there are only 10 entries there... Maybe we should try to expand this canon. You can propose games for any platform.
Please give reasons (important for culture, genre, games as a whole etc.) why you want the game to be inlcuded. I will then expand the list.
You might ask yourself what kind of games we are looking for, and I guess Count_Zero gives a pretty good definition:

"So, for the purposes of this thread, what we'd probably be looking for are games that are the "greatest works of artistic merit", and I'd add "greatest works of technical merit" whether with regards to the story being told, how well the game controls (and any gameplay innovations related to that) or any technical innovations related to the back end of the game."
__________________________________________________ __________________________
New Additions:

Jump 'n Runs

[Confirmed]
Super Mario Bros (NES) : This was the first platformer to have scrolling. (Count_Zero) (alternate reason would be required)

Super Mario 64: The concept of a 3d platformer was relatively alien at the time yet this worked so well first time out. (garrfunkel)
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First Person Shooter

[Confirmed]
Half Life Series: Since the very beginning the people at Valve have been pushing the boundaries of interactive narrative with the Half Life series. On top of that the controls are perfect and the graphics have always been cutting edge. (DaedHead8)

Castle Wolfenstein 3D: it opened the eyes of the gaming community as to the possibilities of the FPS-genre... there were a few games before it, but it was wolf3d.exe that convinced everybody that this was a great new style of gaming. (mistic)

Deus Ex: Most of its gameplay elements are drawn from other genres and not groundbreaking in themselves, but the degree of freedom and player control were unprecedented. (...) Also probably the only game where the "moral choice" mechanic felt like a true choice and not a tacked-on gameplay decision. (Shinryu)

[Questionable]
Bioshock: The game that proved you don't need multiplayer to sell millions in the internet era. A beautiful combination of innovative gameplay and masterful story telling, this game deserves to be a part of the video game canon. (DaedHead8)

[Suggested]
System Shock 2 - Need more opinions on this!

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Action/Adventure

[Confirmed]
Metroid: Extremely good combination of action gameplay, both in terms of platforming and shooting, in an action framework (massive world to explore). (Count_Zero)

The Legend of Zelda: Similar reason, a fairly simple - at first glance - quest game, with a massive world (for the NES) to explore, but with fairly simple and accessible gameplay. (Count_Zero)

Metal Gear series: All of them really but most importantly the first Metal Gear game and Metal Gear Solid. Both of which were responsible for creating and popularising stealth gameplay. (dmgi)

Ocarina of Time: One of the few retro series to jump into 3d so well and adapt so quickly. (garrfunkel)

Tomb Raider: this was the break through game in the mid-90s. I can't think of any other video game character that was on the cover of non-videogame magazines. (Ali D)

Silent Hill: revitalized the horror genre by going in an entirely different direction from what the mainstream was at the time (i.e. Resident Evil) and putting you in the shoes of an "average Joe" character with no particular combat/survival skills. (Shinryu)

Cave Story (Dōkutsu Monogatari): For the simple fact, it has not only one of the best stories, and some of the best gameplay and music of any Indie title, but of any game period. For the work of a one man dev team to be placed up upon the same high pedestal as those done by entire full studios is a remarkable feat, and a true shining opus for Indie developers and fans to look to. (Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)

[Questionable]
Shadow of the Colossus: One of the most moving stories in a game ever. Massively expansive landscape and every fight is a boss fight. (garrfunkel and DaedHead8)

GTA 3: The staple of sandbox games and the point of comparison ever since (How many times have you heard the words GTA-Clone in the past few years?). Sure other games had done it before, but nothing like what GTA had to offer. (dmgi)


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Adventure

[Confirmed]
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: (DS 2005) The first non-Eroge Visual Novel to gain Western popularity and significance; proving to many that the genre could craft a quality gameplay and narrative experience, and paving the way for other such games, like Professor Layton, Hotel Dusk and the other Ace Attorney titles. (Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)

King's Quest (1984) was the first third person adventure game and paved the way for games like Monkey Island. (Joseffthered )

Shadowgate (1987) came out around the time of LucasArts' Maniac Mansion and was one of the first "point-and-click" adventure games. (Joseffthered)

[Suggested]

Monkey Island Series - Need more opinions on this! Specify which one.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
Casual
[Confirmed]
Wii Sports: Like it or not it is something that completely defines what the Wii is and will always be remembered. (garrfunkel)
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
Puzzle
[Confirmed]
Tetris: It pretty much single-handedly popularized the Game Boy (and more importantly, portable gaming in general). (Clyde and Badstar)

Braid: A masterpiece in every sense of the word. (DaedHead8)

Bubble Bobble: For pioneering the „puzzle platformers“. (BulletMagnet)

Puyo Puyo: Sets the standard for every "ochi" puzzler to come after it. (BulletMagnet)

Puzzle Bobble: It popularized the "shoot stuff upwards" puzzle subgenre. (BulletMagnet)

[Suggested]

Portal – No Reason given yet.

Katamary Damacy - Need more opinions on this!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

RPG
[Confirmed]
Fallout: It was different and innovative for its time, doing brand new things that heavily, heavily influenced the RPG genre. (Angra)

Final Fantasy IX: It presents the basic structure of Final Fantasy (classes, magic rules, linear world spanning quest, high quality cutscenes to move the story) but its also, perhaps, more immediately palletable than the entries on either side of it. (Tubatic)

Final Fantasy VI: It's just an incredibly realised story. (Aurain)

Final Fantasy I: For being the first to popularize RPGs in the gaming niche. (Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)

Final Fantasy VII: Cultural impact, effect on the genre and popularized/familiarized those outside of the niche with RPGs. (Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)

Tactics Ogre: It truly set the bar for grid-based "move/attack" strategy titles. (BulletMagnet)
Pokémon Red/Blue: The standard-setters. (BulletMagnet)

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne: For their unique and evocative settings and themes, as well as their robust challenge. (BulletMagnet)

Dragon Quest V: A great story of the journey of life and love. A great coming of age story too. (TurboKill)

Persona 3:FES: The definitive version of the game that has put SMT on the gaming radar for many websites/critics/gamers in the last couple of years, and introduced many new people to the SMT series as a whole. Not to mention it's moving story and addicting soundtrack. (Aurain)

[Suggested]

Final Fantasy Tactics: Need more opinions on this!

Seiken Densetsu - Need more opinions on this!

Diablo - Need more opinions on this!

Ultima 4 - Need more opinions on this!

Pokémon - Which one? Need more opinions on this!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Fighting Games
[Confirmed]
Street Fighter 2: fighting games came of age here. (Ali D)

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
Possibly the greatest fighting game ever made. It's not a game whose depth comes from five different meters to keep track of, but it's amazing depth comes from it's actual mechanics. (LK404).

[Suggested]
Tekken: Need more opinions on this!

Virtua Fighter: Need more opinions on this!
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Music and Rhytm Games

[Confirmed]
Otocky: This game is widely regarded a precursor to Tetsuya Mizuguchi’s Rez (2002). It was also the first game by Toshio Iwai of Electroplankton fame. (nintendoll)

PaRappa the Rapper: Parappa the Rapper is arguably the first sight-reading game; boasting quirky characters and plot integrated with original music and art. The mainstream success of this game opened up music video games as a viable source of success and income for developers. (nintendoll)

FreQuency: It was the first music game to give you control of all of the musical instruments in the track. It was also one of the first games to implement a progress bar on the right side of the screen that showed you how far through the song you were. (nintendoll)

Dance Dance Revolution: Without DDR, some games like Guitar Hero and Rock band might not exist. At least not as we know them anyways. Also it is a great game that even brings casual players to the arcade... If all the machines aren't crowded. (TurboKill)

Samba De Amigo
DDR is intimidating; Samba De Amigo is welcoming. Shaking maracas is so charming that even people who play on easy are smiling while they play. Instead of weird, high-speed techno music, Samba De Amigo had cheesy, upbeat songs like Ricky Martin's "Cup of Life." (LK404)

[Suggested]
Rock Band – No Reason given yet.

Guitar Hero – Proposed again... more opinions please!


__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

RTS
[Confirmed]
Total Annihilation: the first RTS with 3D units, and so great and well balanced that people are still playing it nowadays (was released in 1990), some fans even built a full free version of it (taSpring) (mistic)

[Suggested]
StarCraft - Need more opinions on this!
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Strategy
[Confirmed]
Master of Magic: a 4X game very similar to Civ II, but the battles were tactics-like battles instead of being computed automatically. This game was a shining beacon in the fantasy strategy/4X genres and was an incredibly deep game for its day. (zgerhard)
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MMORPG
[Confirmed]

World of Warcraft - When someone mentions MMO, The first thought is always WoW.
When a new MMO comes out, It tries to copy WoW's style and Gameplay. (Aurain)

[Suggested]

Everquest - Need more opinions on this!
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Simulation
[Confirmed]
Elite: the first successful space simulator. Everything from Wing Commander, to Freespace, to X3, to Eve Online comes from Elite. (Count_Zero)

Grant Tourismo (Series): for popularising the simulation-racing genre. (Mistic)

[Suggested]
Hidden Agenda: Need more opinions on this!

Operation Flashpoint: Need more opinions on this!

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Beat 'em up
[Questionable]
Double Dragon: for jump-starting (if not starting outright) the genre of the side-scrolling beat-em-up/brawler. (Count_Zero)

[Suggested]

Final Fight - Need more opinions on this!

Guardian Heroes - Need more opinions on this!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Shmup
[Confirmed]

Radiant Silvergun: The most "epic" shooter ever released. (BulletMagnet)

DoDonPachi: remains the benchmark for "bullet hell" shooters. (BulletMagnet)

Touhou 6 ~ The Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil: (PC 2002) A fantastic Danmaku/Bullet Hell shooter, and a huge revitalization for the 4 year MIA Touhou series, introducing some of the most important series mechanics, like auto-item collection and counter-bombing, and some of the series most beloved charecters. More importantly though, it was the first of the series to be developed for Windows, allowing the West much easier access to the series, and thus, introducing a large number to the hugely multi-faceted world of Touhou. (Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)

[Suggested]

Gradius-Series - Need more opinions on this! Which one?

R-Type Series - Need more opinions on this! Which one?

Thunder Force - Need more opinions on this!

Twinkle Star Sprites - Need more opinions on this!

Ikaruga - Need more opinions on this!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Racing
[Confirmed]
GRID: for implementing the time-back-feature that racing-gamers have been praying for since the very first racing game where you could crash your car. (mistic)

Motocross Madness (2): for the insane sandbox that they gave us. (mistic)
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Special
[Confirmed]
Passage: It was the first title to put Indie games on the map of quite a lot of people, and tells one of the deepest and most evocative narratives in all of gaming in only ~5 minutes. Most importantly, it helped show that games didn't need to be traditional, or even fun, to be worthy additions to the medium.(Scary Womanizing Pig Mask)
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
* Will be moved to [Confirmed] on the next blog update if not found questionable.
(The descriptions can appear slightly edited)

[Count_Zero]

Metroid: Extremely good combination of action gameplay, both in terms of platforming and shooting, in an action framework (massive world to explore).

The Legend of Zelda: Similar reason, a fairly simple - at first glance - quest game, with a massive world (for the NES) to explore, but with fairly simple and accessible gameplay.

I'd also add Super Mario Bros (NES - the first one) as well: This was the first platformer to have scrolling. No, really, it was the first platformer to have scrolling. They didn't particulary have scrolling platformers on the PC (or they weren't very common) until John Romero wrote Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement - which in turn lead to Commander Keen.

Actually - I don't want to sound rude - but this might fit better on the Retroforce Go! forum - because I suspect this would make for a very good show topic.

Oh, and since Subenu didn't explain - for those who don't already know, Literary Canon refers to books and other pieces of literature that are widely studied and respected due to their cultural significance, due to their quality, or due to their general importance with regards to fiction writing in general.

So, for the purposes of this thread, what we'd probably be looking for (and Subenu can correct me if I'm wrong) are games that are the "greatest works of artistic merit", and I'd add "greatest works of technical merit" whether with regards to the story being told, how well the game controls (and any gameplay innovations related to that) or any technical innovations related to the back end of the game.

[KyleGamgee]

Not just retro stuff. Portal and BioShock, definitely Guitar Hero and Rock Band belong.

[protomark]

What exactly does a game have to be to be canonized? I don't suppose you could make a list of canonized games without having specific criteria of some kind.

[Subenu]

@protomark
I guess what Count Zero wrote gives you a good idea which criteria should be used: "greatest works of artistic merit" and "greatest works of technical merit". I did not want to give very specific criteria, because gamers should build their own criteria. That's why you always have to explain, why you want a game to be added.

@KyleGamgee
I agree, also current gen games can enter the list. You only have to give reasons why you want them on there.

@Count_Zero
Games added.
May I use your definitions in the first post? It seems to clarify a lot I did not mention.
I did not post this in the RetroForceGo! Forum because their specific point are retro games and there would be the danger that newer games would not make the list. If on the other hand Administrators and Moderators do think the Topic is misplaced, please move it.

[Count_Zero]

Originally Posted by Subenu

@Count_Zero
Games added.
May I use your definitions in the first post? It seems to clarify a lot I did not mention.

Feel free.

Originally Posted by Subenu

I did not post this in the RetroForceGo! Forum because their specific point are retro games and there would be the danger that newer games would not make the list. If on the other hand Administrators and Moderators do think the Topic is misplaced, please move it.

Again - the only reason RetroForceGo! popped into my head was I thought it would make for a very interesting podcast topic. And the only reason my mind went specifically to RetroForceGo! as opposed to, say, PodToid is... well... I don't listen to PodToid, so the first thought was putting this discussion on a podcast that I actually listen to. :embarrassed:

[Subenu]

@Count_Zero
I'll definately make sure that this topic will get some attention. If anybody feels so, you can always advertise for it in comments of podcasts etc. (If that is allowed)

[dmgi]

GTA 3: The staple of sandbox games and the point of comparison ever since (How many times have you heard the words GTA-Clone in the past few years?). Sure other games had done it before, but nothing like what GTA had to offer.

[DaedHead8]

All the games I'm about to post I've picked because of their success in story telling. I'll give some specific examples for each.

Shadow of the Colossus: Chosen specifically for its expansive world and incredible monster designs. The story was also emotionally touching.

Braid: A masterpiece in every sense of the word. The fact that the game is one huge anti-nuclear proliferation message is primarily why I suggest it.

Half Life Series: Since the very beginning the people at Valve have been pushing the boundaries of interactive narrative with the Half Life series. On top of that the controls are perfect and the graphics have always been cutting edge.

Bioshock: The game that proved you don't need multiplayer to sell millions in the internet era. A beautiful combination of innovative gameplay and masterful story telling, this game deserves to be a part of the video game canon.

[garrfunkel]

Guitar Hero

Spawned a shit load of rhythm games and greatly increased the genres popularity.

Wii Sports

Like it or not it is something that completely defines what the Wii is and will always be remembered.

Shadow of the Colossus

One of the most moving stories in a game ever. Massively expansive landscape and every fight is a boss fight.

Ace Attorney Series

In these times of mindless First Person Shooters and shiny new RPGs and next gen graphics the Ace Attorney series provides so much entertainment and doesnt feel stale despite the fact that its an adventure game of the most basic sort.

Metal Gear series

All of them really but most importantly the first Metal Gear game and Metal Gear Solid. Both of which were responsible for creating and popularising stealth gameplay.

Final Fantasy Series

No need to explain really.

Silent Hill

Back when survival horror really meant the horror part.

Super Mario 64

The concept of a 3d platformer was relatively alien at the time yet this worked so well first time out.

Ocarina of Time

One of the few retro series to jump into 3d so well and adapt so quickly.

[Subenu]

I just wanted to say that you can always discuss about a game already being on the list. If you feel that there is a game up there that does not belong there, feel free to say so.

@garrfunkel
I have included most games you mentioned, but I have my problems with the Ace Attouney and Final Fantasy series. First of all, I don't really think that including whole series is a very clever idea, since there can always be games in it that are not so important. And then, I don't really see what Ace Attourney did differently from all the other Adventure games that already exist for the PC. In the case of Final Fantasy, this series is so big, we should pick single games...
I also did not include the first Silent Hill, because I think that would need some discussion. I personally would choose Silent Hill 2, but I don't want to be to much of a gatekeeper. so... discuss...

@dmgi
Even though we could have also included the first one, I guess the third one is the best choice to include.

@DaedHead8
Took all of them in.

[Serpentish]

After recently finishing bioshock, I have to question, what was so innovative about the gameplay? I liked the story although not exactly completely original, loved the setting (although elements were ripped straight out of fallout). Not sure it's exactly canon.

Also how the hell is guitar hero up there for spawning rythm games yet there's no mention of Dance Dance Revolution? I feel like this list isn't going where it was intended and is just becoming a list of "games that I really really like" as named by random people.

[Subenu]

@Serpentish
You are raising some good points there I guess... I'll give those two games a "questionable" tag. Please continue to discuss, I will watch and see where the tendecies go.
Would you want Dance Dance Revolution to be put up into the canon?

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I think Blizzard needs some representation. Diablo and the randomized dungeon generation was the first time I had seen that feature. The gameplay itself is solid, but the chance to replay the same game but never get the same level layout was a pretty big deal.

StarCraft could be considered the grand daddy of the RTS genre, to this day it is still competitively played across the world. While I'm not an RTS fan, I still recognize and respect the fire that it started.

World of Warcraft is a juggernaut of its own, being the most commercially successful and largest MMO to date. Every studio developing an MMO does so in hopes of getting even a fraction of a piece of WoW's pie.

But WoW would not be what it is without nods to EverQuest. It wasn't called EverCrack without a reason, it essentially built the MMO market and could not be stopped. Even if it is a shadow of what it used to be, over 10 years later EverQuest is still going while many MMOs have since came and gone.

Someone has already said the Final Fantasy series, but more on that topic, never has a franchise existed for so long and continued to continually reinvent and remain commercially successful and culturally relevant, even through years of JRPG stagnation. Though series fanboys still continue to doggedly argue which Final Fantasies were great and which sucked, it still remains that Final Fantasy 4, 6, 7, 12 and Tactics were groundbreaking for the RPG genre, and like wine, every one of them is distinctively different from the others. Technically all of them are great, but as none of them run on exactly the same mechanics as the others, so personal tastes vary.

The Seiken Densetsu series deserves a nod as well. Much like the Final Fantasy series, every Seiken Densetsu title is different from the others, and usually subject to the same debate over quality and fan reception. It is not as famous as its Final Fantasy cousin, but you can't read a Top X Video Games of All Time list without seeing Secret of Mana on there. SoM was so incredibly ahead of its time, but with an interesting reason. The very roots of the game are embedded in some of the most important events in gaming history. It was to be one of the launch titles of the SNES CD addon (check the expansion bay on the bottom of your SNES), which Nintendo paid Sony to develop, but right before launch Nintendo withdrew, and Sony went on to use the hardware developed to release the Sony PlayStation. Squaresoft had to rush and scale the game down to fit on a SNES cartridge, but it explains why the game is so revered.

In SNES terms, it is a complete over achiever, while it has some fairly visible bugs (you can't have more than 3 enemies on screen, sound channels will occasionally cut out when some SFX play) that are a result of the game being so cram packed that it pushed past what the SNES could actually handle. The gameplay itself, an Action RPG, was one of the first non-menu driven RPGs gamers ever played. And it supported 3 player multiplayer, something new to the RPG genre, and still new to the console to begin with as the multitap required came out with Super Bomberman just a little more than 4 months earlier. Secret of Mana truly is an amazing game, and the reason my SNES has always remained a quick video plug in away from playable ever since.

Yeah, I'm somewhat of a fan. Secret of Mana is what made me a gamer.

[Subenu]

@Vanilla Gorilla
I don't think we can put up Starcraft as the Grandfather of RTS... that was Dune 2 some years before that.
When it comes to World of Warcraft, I have my problems really seeing the really new things in it, since most of these elements already existed before.
Which Final Fantasy should get in is very hard to decide, I need more opinions on this...

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Ozzy wasn't the first to play metal, but Black Sabbath changed the face of metal.

[Subenu]

A game does not have to be the first of its genre, that's true, but it can be on the list because of that. It's the influence the game had for its genre and all the other factors that are important.

[DaedHead8]

It's not that important but the "Daed" in my screen name is spelled backwards on purpose.

[Subenu]

@DaedHead8
I'll correct it...

[DaedHead8]

As for the Final Fantasy debate, I think we should include 1, 4, 6, 7, 10, 12 and tactics. Those are the games that were revolutionary for their time and truly represent what the Final Fantasy games are all about.