[greeneggsnsam]

As usual, Anthony mirrored my feelings on the subject. However, I thought that Kanji in Persona 4 was actually a good character. It's right that his sexuality isn't really explored as much as it could be, but I felt more that it wasn't explored because it didn't need to be- I don't know my friends' sexualities, because I don't care. In some ways it's more realistic. Besides, you can date him. Surely that means he's gay, right?

And hey, he's quite a cool character (alright, he's the token "badass" in the JRPG), and it's funny when the other characters make references to his sexuality.

What does everyone else think about the Rant?

[DougCL]

i liked it, and agreed completely.

[Jesus H Christ]

Yeah, Anthony seemed upset that they never really explicitly told you what Kanji's orientation was, but thinking back on it I think that's a good thing. He clearly had some homosexual tendencies, but later found himself attracted to Naoto even after it was revealed she is a girl. I think the point was to show that his preferences really didn't matter.

Otherwise spot on.

[The Mad March Harris]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Yeah, Anthony seemed upset that they never really explicitly told you what Kanji's orientation was, but thinking back on it I think that's a good thing. He clearly had some homosexual tendencies, but later found himself attracted to Naoto even after it was revealed she is a girl. I think the point was to show that his preferences really didn't matter.

Otherwise spot on.

Thinking about it, that's actually a really stupid decision. Why is his dungeon about him confronting his homosexuality if he's actually straight? Everyone else has to deal with their issues and accept them as part of themselves but Kanji just becomes the butt of the occasional joke while they definitively made him straight (and a gay stereotype at the same time, somehow).

[ReverendAnthony]

Yeah, I didn't like it. I consider sexual ambiguity for his character more interesting/progressive than outright straightness, and even that kinda sucks.

Making him straight is like a way to brush aside all real issues he has to deal with with one gesture. Is he worried about how he feels and how society will treat him? Well, don't worry anymore -- it turns out the dude he wanted was actually a girl! Ta-da! Three cheers for the status quo, he doesn't have any internal conflict anymore!

It's like when the goth chick turns into a "Pretty, Normal Girl" at the end of the Breakfast Club.

[ScottyG]

First off I think it's great that Rev has two whole forum boards for him to inform us about his latest and upcoming videos.

Oh wait...

Anyways, he definitely made great points. I'm not sure the acceptance of homosexuality has come far enough that it can be regularly portrayed as no big deal. Personally though I definitely think lgbt characters are at their best when their sexuality isn't shoved down your throat. I know with Captain Jack you get 10 seconds of the Doctor explaining Jack's sexuality to Rose, and afaik that's it for the both Doctor Who and Torchwood. You see many displays of his sexuality, but it's never again explicitly mentioned nor is it brought up in a "in your face" kind of way. It's just... there.

[Ckarasu]

Originally Posted by The Mad March Harris

Thinking about it, that's actually a really stupid decision. Why is his dungeon about him confronting his homosexuality if he's actually straight? Everyone else has to deal with their issues and accept them as part of themselves but Kanji just becomes the butt of the occasional joke while they definitively made him straight (and a gay stereotype at the same time, somehow).

Uh, I think the dungeon was more about confronting his more "feminine" tendencies (his sewing hobby, for one) and his fear of girls than it was about confronting any homosexual tendencies he might have had. He was more comfortable around men, so his dungeon reflected that. There are also some other reasons behind why his dungeon was that way.

Besides that: Who said he was straight? He could have been bisexual. Though, that is kind of a stretch.

[Jesus H Christ]

Don't forget that it turns out that each character's dungeon isn't a reflection of how they see themselves, but how others see them.

[Kpax]

God, the Breakfast Club sucks so hard. I don't understand why so many people enjoy it. It was so dumb. Why do they call themselves the Breakfast Club at the end? You'd think that they'd explain that, seeing as how it's the name of the fucking movie...

[Preacher747]

I felt that Anthony's rant could have been summed up in the statement "I want more good game characters". I think making the distinction between gay and straight characters is kind of missing the point; if a character is well developed, nuanced and realistic then their sexuality shouldn't matter. How is the typical overly flamboyant gay character from a Japanese game any different than a hyper-mascaline character from a western game? They're both caricatures.

To me, talking specifically about gay characters in games seems kind of pandering to a social hot topic. I know Rev mentioned that gamers are one of the most homophobic communities out there; I don't know how true that is (gamers are more homophobic than high school sport teams, muslim youth groups and a million other organizations?). I feel like most people have their belief systems established through other means than media and games. Games are naturally evolving to have that diversity of characters you have in other media. It's slow but I think any more concerted an effort will simply make people feel like their games are just another form of social re-education, preaching to them when all they want to do is have some fun.

If game characters in general are presented well and stories are written well then games will eventually get their subtle and nuanced gay characters. How can we expect a character from a minority group to get an accurate portrayal in games if characters from the majority aren't portrayed as well? From another perspective, how many years of british television did it take for them to overcome gay stereotypes and have a Jack Harkness character? Was that a result of writers trying to advance social equality and break down stereotypes or was it just the writers trying to create interesting and well developed characters? I'm inclined to think the later, because most stories that try the former tend to get bogged down in their own moral quandaries.

[eternalplayer2345]

It did feel kinda ham fisted that kani became attracted too naoto later in that game and that it was betraying the story that had been set up for him. I think the game actually had Kanji as a bisexual leaning toward men alot, the only time he becomes attracted to a girl is one who is extremely masculine (even when he found out naoto's gender he was still attracted instead of just giving up on her). It does seem like the dungeon was just a exagerration of his bisexuality and maybe even the fear of just being seen as a homosexual by his peer. Naoto's dungeon was set up the entire time to make her appear as a transgender person dealing with the issues of being born in the wrong body, this part of the game well hit me in a personally way and I was kinda mad the it turns out she was just upset that people would not take a kid/girl seriously in the work place. So once again the dungeon became an exaggeration of why she acted like a guy and not the true reasons behind her actions. That is why I believe kanji is really just bisexual and extremely confused since it is true that bisexuals are labeled as just homosexual in today's world.

[Avalon]

I have to say that I agreed with everything said in the video, and I was somewhat disappointed by Yosuke's apparent homophobia throughout the game.

However, I'd really like to point out that the Magypsies in Mother 3 are not actually gay. This is because they're not actually supposed to be men. Before you actually meet them, there's a whole build up where Alec is describing them to you and he says that they're "mystical beings" and are "neither man nor woman" so that you get this whole impression that they're not even humanoid. I, myself, thought that Alec had given his own little name to the Mr. Saturns.
And when you finally see the Magypsies, they resemble transvestites, and you think "Oh, right! That was what he meant by 'neither man nor woman'!". Simply put, they're transvestites solely for that initial quirky surprise. The Magypsies are transvestites, first and foremost and if you want to interpret them as actually being "gay", then I'd argue that it's quite impossible seeing as they have no gender.

To back up my point, Mother 2/Earthbound, there is a character called Tony whom Shigesato Itoi actually admitted to being gay, in an interview. In the actual game, there is no real hinting towards Tony's sexaulity other than his clingy-ness towards his best friend, Jeff. He's gay. That's all there is to it. Is Jeff gay? Who knows? He says literally two lines in the entire game, so we'll never know. Tony is not a character you really want to play as, but his sexuality is not his defining characteristic as much as his apparent crush on Jeff, which is fine, you could find him annoying if either character were replaced by a member of the opposite sex. The first time I played it, I just thought he was being a really good and understanding friend.

My point is, calling Itoi out for his portrayal of gay characters (who aren't actually gay) is kind of redundant when he's done a pretty good job previously.

[nekobun]

Another great example of terribly representations of homosexuality are the couple who make clothes for... I forget if it's the doll, Cordelia, or little Annastasia, in Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Not only are they obnoxiously flaming, but you "pay" them for new outfits in homoerotic pornography you find scattered around the game world, as if they care for nothing more than smut.

Granted, it's over the top to the point that even my gay friends who played the game just laughed at them, but it's still evidence of how homosexuality in games is considered little more than comic relief or, in the case of lesbian relationships (Fear Effect, anyone?), titillation.

[Carl Sagan]

Yet another reminder of how socially backwards my planet is.

[mysticwolf11]

Kudos to you Anthony for making a Torchwood reference! I enjoy both Torchwood and Doctor Who, but honestly I feel like I can get into Torchwood a little bit more simply because it's easier for to become emotionally involved with the characters in that show than I can with Doctor Who, even though David Tennant is probably the best doctor the series has ever seen since Tom Baker.

A little thing I want to mention though: Technically, Jack Harkness isn't gay. The character is bisexual. The actor however, John Barrowman, IS gay. Regardless he's an amazing actor and if I ever meet him I'll probably ask him for a hug. ^_^

[Avalon]

[Ckarasu]

Originally Posted by Avalon

In terms of a pure, offensive, stereotypical gay, no one can top this guy.

[Avalon]

I was actually trying to make a point about Vamp being the proverbial "Captain Jack" of video games... he's bisexual, he's seriously fucking cool, sure he's a bit of a sadist, but I still want to play as him AND he's voiced by Phil LaMarr.

His sexuality isn't what characterises him either, the only way to find out is by talking to Plissken/Snake at a specific time in the game and he mentions it in passing. You can go through the whole series without knowing it, and I did until I last replayed MGS2.

[Ckarasu]

Originally Posted by Avalon

I was actually trying to make a point about Vamp being the proverbial "Captain Jack" of video games... he's bisexual, he's seriously fucking cool, sure he's a bit of a sadist, but I still want to play as him AND he's voiced by Phil LaMarr.

His sexuality isn't what characterizes him either, the only way to find out is by talking to Plissken/Snake at a specific time in the game and he mentions it in passing. You can go through the whole series without knowing it, and I did until I last replayed MGS2.

That wasn't necessarily what I was talking about. I quoted it because he reminded me of Makoto (the guy I pictured). Vamp seems pretty flamboyant, and I was merely mentioning that Makoto is more so (and pretty offensive, I think).

[Phantomile]

I hadn't thought of that.
Vamp is actually a really fucking great example of an awesome character who just happens to be gay/bisexual.