Final Fantasy XIV won't have experience points

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Home Final Fantasy

8:20 AM on 08.04.2009, Brad Nicholson

37 comments | 15057 views

Final Fantasy XIV won't have experience points photo

#Final Fantasy #PC #PS3

Final Fantasy XIV is shedding MMO progression conventions. According to producer Hiromichi Tanaka and director Nobuaki Komoto, the upcoming offering won’t have experience points or traditional leveling. Characters will progress through the game’s job system -- an injection casual in what will undoubtedly be an MMO for the Final Fantasy faithful.

Tanaka reveals the lack of traditional grinding in a DVD companion piece to the September 2009 issue of Famitsu (via Scrawl FX): “This time, there will be no experience points or level system,” he said. “It will be different altogether.”

Komoto backs him up. He mentions that character growth will have an organic quality and then says progression will be tied to the job system: "people who may never have tried an online game before have the freedom to try many different things and tackle any number of quests and grow naturally from their experiences ... That's our priority: players enjoying the process of character growth."

"We believe the main factor behind Final Fantasy XI's lasting appeal is the job system. However, the system will become something completely different. The focus here will be on weapons. Your weapon will determine how you play. Your weapon will determine how you fight.”

Final Fantasy XI is as grindy, unfriendly, and time-consuming as any MMO on the market. Hours upon hours can be spent in search of eyeballs or magical skullcaps in order receive the pleasure of picking a second job. It’s nice to hear that SquareEnix is tweaking the formula in a big way. Here’s to hoping FFXIV is better for the new stuff.

[via Eurogamer]

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37 comments | showing # 1 to 37

lou

Wait. FFXIII isn't even out yet.

StevePharma

Collect 2500 bananas equals level up!

If they did it like some aspects of Oblivion, were doing something made you progress in that skill (run a lot and your stamina gets better, jump alot to increase your jump skill) could work if handled correctly. But to my understanding most MMORPG fans are stat-whores so I don't know if this would fly with them.

KrazyKraut

mh..thats sad..for me FFXI is the best mmorpg out there and i am a little bit afraid about the news of FFXIV. How should that work? I mean other mmorpgs like Darkfall or Mortal Online have no exp too..there are running on skill but...how they will keep the RPG feeling of Final Fantasy? SE butchs every new RPG they bring out, like The Last Renmant? What a shit (sry)...or FFXIII will have no traditional exp system...and we know the Sphereboard in FFX sucked ass. So....i hope they keep the MMORPG feeling alive...and not a bring out a adventure thing out. I love FFXI for its hardcore content (2 yrs for the best weapon of ya class or 10 hrs to defeat some bosses) and they said on the e3 2009 that they wanna make content for every type of player (hardcore, not-every.day player, mmo beginner), but it seems that they focus more on newbies.

Xzyliac

Interesting. Admittedly I'm not a huge MMO fan mainly because of the grinding aspect.

This all does sound very familiar though. I could've sworn a recent (last 10 years) MMO has done this before. I don't know how successful it was or whether or not I'm even right.

Aurain

It has potential.

But it will be shit.

MMO's are about goals and Aims. The tried and tested method of reaching the last level and then beating the toughest bosses is still around because it works. Making it so that the weapon is the driving force behind your characters skills and abilities will be inherently flawed because it means a couple of things.

1. The best weapons are going to be the absolute best things in the game. There's not going to be room for second fiddle weapons when Weapon A is the best. People are only going to want people with Weapon A, Weapon B or C is going to get sidelined pretty badly.

2. The best weapons are going to come from over camped Bosses or Dungeons. If FF14 runs on Instances like WoW, then you're likely going to struggle for a group because it's going to be 1000 people competing for 1 spot in a party, all going for that 1 weapon.

3. If the Weapon doesn't bind to the person who picks it up, the Weapon itself is only going to create an over-inflated economy where the good gear is too expensive, and the crap gear is cheap, but worthless. People who want an easy fix are going to buy Gil with real life money and then to remain competitive, other people are going to do the same to stay in touching distance.

4. What about Class X going for Class Y's weapon because Class X wants to be a Class Y later on. High Demand / Low Supply means Class Y goes without because Class X is a selfish prick.

Of course, alot of this is speculatory, based on how FF14 will turn out on release, but basing it on how FFXI worked, then I don't think it's unfair to say that these problems may arise.

bushofghosts

This doesn't make any sense to me. A major factor of the FF RPGs has been to level your character up as far as possible - to rely on a weapon for stats and a job for skills seems to be way too limiting for my liking. Wouldn't there be a slippery slope into linear gameplay if you constantly had to search for the next more powerful weapon in order to strengthen? It sounds dangerously stunting for a MMO.

Video Cognito

I honestly think this is great news. I beta tested FFXI one summer for the PS2, but only ended up playing retail for the free month. I loved my time with it, but MMORPG grinding is horrible. I'm very interested in seeing how this will turn out. I'm gonna G.Sword everything to death.

Ganjookie

GOOD! Finally somebody will make a AAA MMO Skill based game, instead of XP and levels.

gamadaya

@StevePharma: God I hope it's not like Oblivion. I really hate grinding, and Oblivion was all about grind. You didn't have to grind levels, but if you didn't, you'd end up with a shitty end game character.

akathatoneguy

@gamadaya-

You must be thinking of a different game. In Oblivion, the enemies level up according to when you level up. You could beat the game without doing any side quests or grinding.

Doos

If this game comes out in 2010 I'll be amazed.

Pic0o

Totally on point with the jabs @ FFXI. I put about 180 Days of play into that game adn will always remember my first MMO of time rape.

The question I have about the new Character development is of course, time sink. I want to think SE has modeled this game to fix the huge time and content issues in FFXI, but I do know that some of the crappiest flaws, tend to be part of the JP attraction.

Things I hope SE has learned to nix.
- 24-72 hour Real-Time spawn windows
- REQUIRED parting to XP (it took them years to make it remotely possible to Solo XP in FFXI)
- Instanced XP zones. If you had a job @ or near 75 in FFXI, you are probably familiar with the Win/Fail of XP'ing in ToAU zones. The fail of course, being when you have to fight for XP mobs.
- An end to cryptic Quests. I like to be challenged, but the in-game details on how to do quests and missions was awful. One should not be required to look up every Quest / Mission to know where to go or what to do.

That concludes my rant of FFXI and it's flaws. I am interested to see how this one fairs, but I'm not expecting to get drawn into making an account, certainly not on Day One of release.

Mentok the Mindtaker

old news...

SyntaxError

Does this mean you're gonne need to bonk yourself in the head for more HP again?

bluerei

@ Aurain

Thats awesome you got a hold of FF14 and know how everything will play out before it's even done. And you haven't played much FFXI, because there is no one best weapon in the game, only the best weapons for that job. So no, in FFXIV You'll want to get the best weapon for the job you want to play as. And also, they reported about making the game playable through single player or party. Looks like you'll be able to camp on your own.

"MMO's are about goals and Aims."

Also, it's good to know that you are the authority when it comes to the definition of an MMORPG. Heaven forbid someone comes and changes that in their own game.

highlatency

The decline of Square has been evident for a while now, but this pretty much seals the deal. I'm pretty sure they just replaced all the employees with bags of dog shit, it's cheaper.

Losari

@bluerel: Let a guy have an opinion (even if it is stated as fact)
-----
If a large aspect of character growth is going to rely on weapons, I don't think anyone should know what the best weapon for each job is. Let us combine materials to create our own weapons with limitless possibilities, making for a large number of unique weapons that can all very well be "the best weapon in the game."
Then, whoever has what they believe to be the "best weapon" can keep the formula a secret to gain a competitive advantage.

But heck, I've never even played an MMORPG, so I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Chronic Logic

Darkfall doesn't have levels or grinding for exp, and Secret World will have no levels as well.

AfroWalrus

I've always thought experience points and leveling up was such a strange concept: "SUDDENLY I CAN CAST FIREBALLS!" I'm interested to see how their changes work, even if I never play the game.

-PL-

It's probably going to be something like "WP" or something (weapon points). "No experience points" means that they changed the name of experience points.

Vanilla Gorilla

I <3 Job Systems!

It's like saying "Here, you want something? Go get it!" and then you can. And you don't need to roll an alt if you want to stab something in the ass instead of setting it on fire.

JamnOnTheOne

So Final Fantasy XIV is going to be a MMO version of Dungeon Seige?

-PL-

Darkfall doesn't have levels or grinding for exp... but it has skill levels, and grinding for skillups... which in my opinion is even more tedious and less gratifying. But, I think Square can pull it off, they did a really good job plugging the holes on the sinking ship that is FFXI, making it more accessible to casual players.

TheBigFeel

so... you level up weapons instead of your character. ok. that just means farmers can sell levels more easily, right?

Vanor

@aurain:

There's been a series out for well over 5 years now that's been doing what FF14 is gonna try to do now, and it's done it so well that it's obvious that Squeeniz wants to cash in on the rampant success of Monster Hunter has had.

Monster Hunter eschewed from the typical MMO formula: No level grinding, true skill-based gameplay, weapons and armor backing up your play style, rather than determining your success unlike just about every other MMO. The games are designed so that there really is no "Best Weapon Evar". Everything balances out, and each weapon type has a niche that it fills that the other weapons don't. Everything in the game backs up the player's skill. If the player sucks, then it doesn't matter how good your armor or weapons are, you're gonna fail. You can take a player with crappy gear, and they'll still breeze through because their skill and knowledge truly makes a difference throughout the entire game.

I don't really blame SE for trying to do this, seeing as how popular Monster Hunter is in Japan, and I think this is might be a sign that a new paradigm shift in MMO design philosophies is coming about, one that stops falling back on the same tired MMO tropes that have been used since, god, Everquest?

RitualNet

So is this going to be like FFTA? I hope so, I loved that.

Coldbrand

Brad did you really have to put that part in the end without knowing what the fuck you're talking about?

Bigmoose85

@ Coldbrand

yeah it would seem brad is still playing the 2004 game

JLanphear

@Chronic Logic I'm fuckin STOKED about Secret World. I've been waiting for that for yeears.

I'm also excited about this game.

AliasWyvernspur

I guess that means there's no chance of deleveling when you die?...FINALLY.

Korolev

"the upcoming offering won�t have experience points or traditional leveling"

...... but will still contain levelling. It just won't be traditional. You'll probably get "job points" to upgrade "skills", or "money" to "Purchase" abilities. But at the end of the day it's the same formula:

Kill/Do something in game ---> Get some sort of point thingy or an amount of X ---> X used to become more powerful.

They've just changed the names. Oh and you probably won't level up as in Level 1 or Level 1 - oh no, it'll probably be something like "Sage apprentice beginner" then after a while you become "Sage Apprentice Intermediate" and so on and so on.

And I don't care - the formula works well for FF games and MMOs. There's no need to try to disguise it.

Aurain

@Bluerei.
I guess you missed the part where I said it's speculatory.
I played a shit load of FFXI. You seem to have misunderstood everything of what I've typed.

I've played plenty of MMORPG's, Enough to know how Elitist the so called best players/guilds/parties are. If you don't have the best equipment, or equipment that is considered top tier, you're going to struggle.

Get an avatar, and comeback when you can tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. Especially when the opinion is on something that is unreleased and can't be anything other than an opinion.

@Losari
I present my opinion as fact for the simple reason that if you make your opinion sound weak, then it's not worth much. If you use strong language to make it sound factual, it holds more weight, despite whether or not you agree with it.

If you wrote "I think that Peanut Butter is the best sandwich filling, but the others are good too." it's a valid opinion, but it seems weak.
If you write, " Peanut Butter is the best sandwich filling", it gives your opinion more weight. If something is subjective, it's up to you to know it's an opinion.

I'm not going to help someone disagree with my opinion because I obviously think my opinion is right. I respect other people's opinions alot more when they're using strong, decisive language, instead of weak, indecisive language.

If someone does want to disagree with my opinion, feel free, but do it properly.

@Vanor
Monster Hunter isn't an MMORPG. Several entries have had different online elements, don't get me wrong. But MMORPG and RPG with Online Features are worlds apart.

S-E could do something amazing and pull it off, I hope they do, I'm looking forward to trying it, but I don't think it will work.

funran

Im sure that traditional "im a level 6 warrior" will be replaced with "i have the 6th level sword skill for my warrior"

Rosseh

@Aurain - Please tell me you notice the hypocrisy in your post. Especially "If someone does want to disagree with my opinion, feel free, but do it properly." haha, come on. You have to admit that in retrospect that is hilarious.

Frohike

Grind = profits.

The grind will merely move to a different place. They cannot, by definition, offer enough content to remain profitable for years without requiring some form of grinding.

It's nice to hear that they're thinking of other methods, but to me it's just another way to skin the same cat.

And you all saying this approach is inherently flawed need to consider that the design for this game has been in the oven for quite a long time. I think they would have worked out any fundamental flaws in their model by now. They're not exactly new at this.

BahamutZero

what's an injection casual

podunhop94

that is what throw me off of ff11 played for a few years off an on great game for its time but i would like to see some action not an 1890s boxing match little dodging rolling combos blocking that you perform and advance up with some new moves not where im in a fight and i can get up and make a sandwich or the dreaded ambush where you dont stand a chance we all been there no choice but to flee then your legues ahead of your attackers and they still knock the shit out off ya even in a party and maybe some ducking hiding and jumping as your exploring and not having to run all the away around a mounting or valley just to get where you going becuase a monster is to strong for you take on how about if you had enough real skill you could actually kill the damn thing highly unlikely but possible not you have no chance in hell at this level or how the old it agro on me run flee for life and if you had to use your own wit and skill it would put an end to the damn gil bots from lvl'n up i think and if you could actually pvp anywhere at least it would put and end to some of the jerks online that cant really play an action game but love to talk shit the only other options where to either talk back , say nothing ,snitch or go cry in a corner haha- now if they talk shit and they are good well just a jerk then at least you could try to do something about it even if you get beat some games are getting out of this turn based loop i think its for the best for those of us who realy enjoy the game and/or nice to others can be a part of just a thought from a huge fan love the idea hate the fighting

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