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From the sounds of the liniarity problems I think they should have done less cutting and more adding.
I still can't wait for this game, but I'm definitly lowering my expectations, I have not liked what I've been hearing so far.
I still can't wait for this game, but I'm definitly lowering my expectations, I have not liked what I've been hearing so far.
It will be interesting to see how much they were able to whittle the game down for completely non-DVD related reasons.
Sounds like they cut the better half of the content, tbh.
Couse whats left is not really doing it. Yay för 95% corridors! FF13 - the birth of the On-rail-RPG.
Couse whats left is not really doing it. Yay för 95% corridors! FF13 - the birth of the On-rail-RPG.
Is it because of the XBox360 version that all of this stuff got cut or just to keep it a reasonable size so it won't have too much loading times?
I can't see them releasing it as DLC, you would pay for a location that you can only visit once, briefly, mid-way through the game?
I dont think we should "blame" the 360 version. It feels more like a design choice.
The game is extremly streamlined, and they probably did the game that they set out to do. The only problem is that it didnt really turn out all that great.
The game is extremly streamlined, and they probably did the game that they set out to do. The only problem is that it didnt really turn out all that great.
I can't help but to be dismissive to the constant complaints of the game being overly linear. Its hard to take the claim seriously when it originated from 2ch. Besides, I can't think of any of my favorite games that weren't linear. Open world freedom sounds nice to everyone who likes to say its the holy grail of gaming, and while they can be fun and different, I have never played one that maintained its narrative throughout. Sure, Oblivion was entertaining, but the plot had absolutely no impact simply because it was more about me seeing what was out there. Also when games try to throw mini-games and side-quests in it tends to become irritating more often than not. I prefer the game to focus on its story instead of cheaply extending gameplay by telling me to go collect pointless items for nobody important (this could be an effect of playing FFXI and WoW for a time).
@krel
I do blame the 360 no japanese dialog and now this also heard from reviews that
s kinda on rails and u cant backtrack im guessing because u would have to change disc on the 360 but its also a FACT that square has been making shitty console games this gen oh well maybe someday ill get valkyrie profile 3 on psp or DS cause thats where they make the good stuff.
I do blame the 360 no japanese dialog and now this also heard from reviews that
s kinda on rails and u cant backtrack im guessing because u would have to change disc on the 360 but its also a FACT that square has been making shitty console games this gen oh well maybe someday ill get valkyrie profile 3 on psp or DS cause thats where they make the good stuff.
Sotanaht: My complints are coming from my own experiences of the game. The linearity is not is only problem thou. The pacing is horrible, and the story is not very intresting (the characters are good thou).
Its a solid 7/10, nothing more nothing less.
BerserkerX: The real problem is not really that you cant go back. Its that there are no real places that you would even WANT to go back to. Its all so linear so there is no reason for backtracking.
There is one big place that you can backtrack to, and its also the only place that you would be getting anything out of going back to.
So, no, I dont really blame the 360 for this.
Also, why would you want japanese dialog? The voice acting has been much worse in japanese games than in their US/EU counterpart for several years now.
Its a solid 7/10, nothing more nothing less.
BerserkerX: The real problem is not really that you cant go back. Its that there are no real places that you would even WANT to go back to. Its all so linear so there is no reason for backtracking.
There is one big place that you can backtrack to, and its also the only place that you would be getting anything out of going back to.
So, no, I dont really blame the 360 for this.
Also, why would you want japanese dialog? The voice acting has been much worse in japanese games than in their US/EU counterpart for several years now.
imagine the artist and ppl who worked on the game....and when their faces in slow motion how the super visiors and project manager said that they have to delete the unused stuff... :( :(
Meh. This is SE, a company made up of Squaresoft which at one time had a strangle hold on the JRPG due to the Chrono series, Mana series, Xenogears series, and Final Fantasy.
They have since either dropped or bastardize the IP's they have owned, chased out the creator of all their glory plus many other talented game designers, composers, etc. I'm not at all surprised by SE's lack of quality overall these days.
As for linearity, its one of those unsaid video game things. Everyone knows that plots are just about always linear in their progression. They have to be. So when it needs to be stated that something IS linear, that means there's something really wrong, as in FFXIII is so linear that you might as well be on your way to OZ, cause the yellow brick road syndrome is back from FFX and it doesn't sound any better.
They have since either dropped or bastardize the IP's they have owned, chased out the creator of all their glory plus many other talented game designers, composers, etc. I'm not at all surprised by SE's lack of quality overall these days.
As for linearity, its one of those unsaid video game things. Everyone knows that plots are just about always linear in their progression. They have to be. So when it needs to be stated that something IS linear, that means there's something really wrong, as in FFXIII is so linear that you might as well be on your way to OZ, cause the yellow brick road syndrome is back from FFX and it doesn't sound any better.
"As for linearity, its one of those unsaid video game things. Everyone knows that plots are just about always linear in their progression. They have to be. So when it needs to be stated that something IS linear, that means there's something really wrong, as in FFXIII is so linear that you might as well be on your way to OZ, cause the yellow brick road syndrome is back from FFX and it doesn't sound any better."
Exactly! Thanks
Exactly! Thanks
@krel
I loved backtracking leveling up for 3 hours getting items ff7 style and playing card game in ff8 and I want Japanese dialog cause I like anime and hearing the Japanese VO cause the English is so freaking bad on that it be nice to just have it as an option atleast
I loved backtracking leveling up for 3 hours getting items ff7 style and playing card game in ff8 and I want Japanese dialog cause I like anime and hearing the Japanese VO cause the English is so freaking bad on that it be nice to just have it as an option atleast
Everyone needs to be quite until they play the game. I don't know why everyone is acting like they already play
Everyone needs to be quite until they play the game. I don't know why everyone is acting like they already played it
@Ironknight
Well if the things I'm hearing about XIII are true, I may not want to play it. "Linear as a piece of string"? No backtracking? No leveling?
Also, DVD-9.
Well if the things I'm hearing about XIII are true, I may not want to play it. "Linear as a piece of string"? No backtracking? No leveling?
Also, DVD-9.
An amusements park would have provoked ideas of exploration an interaction. Something XIII tried its very best to do without :p.
I speak and read japanese fluently. If that makes me a bad person who shouldnt be trusted, then Im sorry.
Please go ahead and ignore my warnings about this decent, but certainly not wondeful game, Ironknight.
Please go ahead and ignore my warnings about this decent, but certainly not wondeful game, Ironknight.
Heh I heard someone say that linear shit from FFX was back and seeing as to how IMO (so fuck off FF7 gangbangers) 10 was the best story wise leveling wise characterwise I dint mind 13 if it's as linear as 10
tobalito: FF10 is as open as Fallout 3 compared to FF13. I also really liked ff10. But in that game you atleast had some side quests, NPCs to tal to, villages, smaller dungeons etc.
Also, ff10 had great pacing. Humor, bright moments/areas and so on that broke up the linearity, and atleast gave the world an illusion of choice.
FF13 hardly feels like a world that exists at all. Its just long corridors one after another.
I probably sound like im on a crusade to hate on this game, but im not. Im just dissapointed over how it turned out couse I, like most others, had pretty high hopes.
Also, ive hit the 50h played mark now, so the game is by no means bad! Its just not all that it could have been. You spend your first 25-30 hours hoping for the game to change. "Soon, itll get really intresting and fun!" is the thought that runs thru your mind almost to the end.
The game plays very much like a carrot on a stick, with its huge amount of save spots, and cut scenes, and you cant help but feeling alittle cheated.
Also, ff10 had great pacing. Humor, bright moments/areas and so on that broke up the linearity, and atleast gave the world an illusion of choice.
FF13 hardly feels like a world that exists at all. Its just long corridors one after another.
I probably sound like im on a crusade to hate on this game, but im not. Im just dissapointed over how it turned out couse I, like most others, had pretty high hopes.
Also, ive hit the 50h played mark now, so the game is by no means bad! Its just not all that it could have been. You spend your first 25-30 hours hoping for the game to change. "Soon, itll get really intresting and fun!" is the thought that runs thru your mind almost to the end.
The game plays very much like a carrot on a stick, with its huge amount of save spots, and cut scenes, and you cant help but feeling alittle cheated.
Even the yellow brick road was more than [them] staring at the bricks. Things happened along the way. You also don't start a journey to, say, the super market by going in the exact opposite direction. That is why I don't understand why "Linear" is being branded all over the place suddenly. Super Mario Bros., Contra, even Gears of War (Campaign) and Ninja Gaiden were all linear. Those were great games, and they never included free-roaming exploration. I have nothing against someone who has played the game and then said, "Its not the best thing out there", but when the defining argument is that the over-all scope of the game is going from point A to point B, it seems a little ridiculous, as almost every single item in the entertainment business is like that, be it books, movies or games.
Now if the scope of the negative reviews contained, what is to me at least, viable information, such as, like you said krel, poor pacing and sub-par story, then I'd take them seriously.
I'm not a fan-boy or anything, the FF Franchise is not batting perfect for me. It just seems like this is a craze more than anything.
Now if the scope of the negative reviews contained, what is to me at least, viable information, such as, like you said krel, poor pacing and sub-par story, then I'd take them seriously.
I'm not a fan-boy or anything, the FF Franchise is not batting perfect for me. It just seems like this is a craze more than anything.
Condemn me for a double post, but I can't go without saying this, as I missed the statement earlier.
@krel
You sir, receive +1 for the English Dubbing comment.
@krel
You sir, receive +1 for the English Dubbing comment.
Ahhh, so that's where all of the exploration went. Seriously though, FF XIII now, or FF XIII + DLC on disc (ala Fallout 3 GOTYE) later? I never really jumped on the DLC bandwagon, and I'm reluctant to start.
First off, I've played and beaten every FF since FF1. I imported FF13, it's a lot better than what you're hearing on the local forums. Sure it's linear is some parts, but that's called progression. There is no need to go back to anywhere else. Then when you get to chapter 11, it is HUGE, and many different places to explore.
This is a story, even more story driven that previous games in the series.
Progression is necessary to tell the story, and backtracking to a bunch of places no longer needed kills that flow. Personally, I love FF12 for it's wide open world, but I am REALLY enjoying this game and plan to buy and play through the English version as well.
This is a story, even more story driven that previous games in the series.
Progression is necessary to tell the story, and backtracking to a bunch of places no longer needed kills that flow. Personally, I love FF12 for it's wide open world, but I am REALLY enjoying this game and plan to buy and play through the English version as well.
BerserkerX: An obvious one? No. But the characters all create strong bonds to each other in an impressive way (probably the best thing about ff13), so there are certainly "relations". Some flirting and friendship.
Oh, come to think of it, there is a character who loves someone else but that person is not in your party, so its very unlike the love stories in ff8 and 10.
Also I should say that the voice acting in ff13 is pretty solid. Especially Hopes voice actor does a great job. But I think that the EU/US version can do better, tbh.
Oh, come to think of it, there is a character who loves someone else but that person is not in your party, so its very unlike the love stories in ff8 and 10.
Also I should say that the voice acting in ff13 is pretty solid. Especially Hopes voice actor does a great job. But I think that the EU/US version can do better, tbh.
um, guys. I don't think they were ever going to make an 80 hour main story rpg.
If you want to blame someone, blame the editor. I doubt this was 360 induced.
Anyway, I'm waiting another 2 years and getting it for 10 bucks used, just like I did with 12. 8 broke me of being a fanboy, and 10 broke me of thinking they could design a game well anymore. 10 was ok, but I wouldn't call it great.
If you want to blame someone, blame the editor. I doubt this was 360 induced.
Anyway, I'm waiting another 2 years and getting it for 10 bucks used, just like I did with 12. 8 broke me of being a fanboy, and 10 broke me of thinking they could design a game well anymore. 10 was ok, but I wouldn't call it great.
Am I the only one that thinks FF12 was wayyyy not enough linear and that it killed the story? There was so much to explore and so many things to do, that when some story elements arose you were like "yeah, whatever, I'll get over this and go look in the sewers for that optionnal summon". It kinda killed the game to me, you know?
Please don't fall into easy traps like BIAS!!1, LINEAR!11!! or IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE !!11!!
Please don't fall into easy traps like BIAS!!1, LINEAR!11!! or IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE !!11!!
I'm getting tired of hearing about "nonlinearity". Linearity is so common that critizing a game for being linear it would seem is becoming increasingly pointless and redundant. Being linear is nothing to be ashamed of. Great games like Uncharted 2, Modern Warfare 2, and Bioshock are all linear. And more often than not, nonlinearity in video games is just a joke.
Very few games are truly nonlinear. Most often the so called "nonlinearity" is incomplete at best and an illusion at worst. Things like side missions, subquests, free roaming, and exploration are really just smoke and mirrors trying to diguise the fact that it's still point A to point B and nothing else. Things like alternate beginnings and alternate endings are just things that happen both before and after points A and B. Maybe they're really good smoke and mirrors, but still smoke and mirrors nevertheless. Choosing the order and methods behind objectives is just more smoke and mirrors. There is no escape from point A to point B. It's still a linear corridor, it's just the corridor tries to disguise this fact by being a larger and more complex linear corridor.
Without branching, alternate plotlines a game will never be truly nonlinear. So it would seemt that almost all games are linear it's just a matter of how honest they are about it and how honest the players are with themselves about it.
I would say that one of the rare examples of a true nonlinear game is Escape Velocity Nova (look it up). It actually has alternate storylines in addition to exploration and methodology. Compared to that the so called "nonlinearity" of games like GTA IV is a joke. Chrono Trigger for the SNES also does a surprisingly good job in terms of true nonlinearity. After you've played through the game once and start up a new game plus you are given the option to simply jump into the final boss fight at any time. Then the game will ignore all of the stuff that's supposed to happen after that point and simply end the story at whatever point you make the jump.
The upcoming Heavy Rain also seems to have alot of promise in terms of true nonlinearity. It's gigantic 2000 page script would seem to be proof enough of that.
And of course there are also Japanese Visual Novels but I think that's another story.
And thank you very much Krel for being so wonderfully non-objective. Just because you didn't like the story doesn't mean other people won't. The fact that Final Fantasy XIII is largely and blatantly linear actually makes me look forward to it more. I have absolutely no problem with movie-like games. I like good stories with good characters, and if a game has to be linear to make that happen, or make it happen more effectively, then I say so be it.
Very few games are truly nonlinear. Most often the so called "nonlinearity" is incomplete at best and an illusion at worst. Things like side missions, subquests, free roaming, and exploration are really just smoke and mirrors trying to diguise the fact that it's still point A to point B and nothing else. Things like alternate beginnings and alternate endings are just things that happen both before and after points A and B. Maybe they're really good smoke and mirrors, but still smoke and mirrors nevertheless. Choosing the order and methods behind objectives is just more smoke and mirrors. There is no escape from point A to point B. It's still a linear corridor, it's just the corridor tries to disguise this fact by being a larger and more complex linear corridor.
Without branching, alternate plotlines a game will never be truly nonlinear. So it would seemt that almost all games are linear it's just a matter of how honest they are about it and how honest the players are with themselves about it.
I would say that one of the rare examples of a true nonlinear game is Escape Velocity Nova (look it up). It actually has alternate storylines in addition to exploration and methodology. Compared to that the so called "nonlinearity" of games like GTA IV is a joke. Chrono Trigger for the SNES also does a surprisingly good job in terms of true nonlinearity. After you've played through the game once and start up a new game plus you are given the option to simply jump into the final boss fight at any time. Then the game will ignore all of the stuff that's supposed to happen after that point and simply end the story at whatever point you make the jump.
The upcoming Heavy Rain also seems to have alot of promise in terms of true nonlinearity. It's gigantic 2000 page script would seem to be proof enough of that.
And of course there are also Japanese Visual Novels but I think that's another story.
And thank you very much Krel for being so wonderfully non-objective. Just because you didn't like the story doesn't mean other people won't. The fact that Final Fantasy XIII is largely and blatantly linear actually makes me look forward to it more. I have absolutely no problem with movie-like games. I like good stories with good characters, and if a game has to be linear to make that happen, or make it happen more effectively, then I say so be it.
@Piellar
FFXII had more than enough character development and story. Unlike Yoshinori Kitase and the emo kids he likes to write in the other games, he wasn't there that time and Matsuno and the Invalice team in general just assumed the players are brighter than Kitase does.
They also wanted you to do the digging on some of the finer points of the world and history. It was a chance to deepen the lore of Ivalice and point things toward future events in other Invalice-related games. And if you looked in the right places of the games features, you found it.
It was a big, overwhelming world, but that's what RPGs should have more of, not less of.
FFXII had more than enough character development and story. Unlike Yoshinori Kitase and the emo kids he likes to write in the other games, he wasn't there that time and Matsuno and the Invalice team in general just assumed the players are brighter than Kitase does.
They also wanted you to do the digging on some of the finer points of the world and history. It was a chance to deepen the lore of Ivalice and point things toward future events in other Invalice-related games. And if you looked in the right places of the games features, you found it.
It was a big, overwhelming world, but that's what RPGs should have more of, not less of.
@ Observer
Linearity when looking at the definition is indeed a straight path from one point to the other and the smoke and mirrors of side quest, and alternate endings, etc are not deceptions, but efforts on the designers part to give the player more than just walking down a narrow hallway filled with rinse and repeat game mechanics and predictable story you see coming from the very beginning.
Linearity when looking at the definition is indeed a straight path from one point to the other and the smoke and mirrors of side quest, and alternate endings, etc are not deceptions, but efforts on the designers part to give the player more than just walking down a narrow hallway filled with rinse and repeat game mechanics and predictable story you see coming from the very beginning.
Cut down to keep FFXIII to 3 discs on the 360 mirite?
Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone did mention how much space FFXIII took on the BD-Disc.
Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone did mention how much space FFXIII took on the BD-Disc.
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