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If only you could patch it yourself. I'm sure the fans would have it hammered out in like a week, tops.
This should not happen. Patches should be free all around. If I there was a game with a game breaking bug, I would be hesitant to get it. But if there was a patch I wouldn't be as hesitant.
I don't know how it all works, but wouldn't MS be paying Polytron to keep the games as an exclusive? I didn't think it'd be the other way around...
Isn't it usually the other way around? Console companies normally pay publishers for exclusivity right?
You have to pay MS to be exclusive to their platform? WTF up with that.
The patch costs though are nothing new these figures have been stated before.
The patch costs though are nothing new these figures have been stated before.
Does MS charge people $40k for the patch so that they don't do a shitty job the first time around or is it just pure greed? If I knew that I would have to pay $40K if I did a bad job at work it would certainly motivate me not to make too much mistakes. Then again, MS can be pricks most of the time.
As a side note: has anyone seen that indie game doc with Phil Fish in it. He kinda came off not so good and acted like this in another situation with his previous partner. He has bit of a cry-baby attitude. Not a big fan of his since the comments he made about Japanese gaming.
As a side note: has anyone seen that indie game doc with Phil Fish in it. He kinda came off not so good and acted like this in another situation with his previous partner. He has bit of a cry-baby attitude. Not a big fan of his since the comments he made about Japanese gaming.
Gaming industry sure is f'd up. Games were infinitely better when they weren't all only about money. I still find myself unable to enjoy most current games. Money makes people forget about what's truly important. I miss the old days.
@Wootallica
The dude was going through a LOT. Overreacting or not, I feel it was justified.
And his comment about Japanese gaming is more than understandable. He doesn't appreciate games that treat the player like a 3 year old: holding your hand through everything, repeating directions, etc.
Also, I now will probably get to finishing FEZ pretty soon. My lone gripe with it was the constant framerate drops.
The dude was going through a LOT. Overreacting or not, I feel it was justified.
And his comment about Japanese gaming is more than understandable. He doesn't appreciate games that treat the player like a 3 year old: holding your hand through everything, repeating directions, etc.
Also, I now will probably get to finishing FEZ pretty soon. My lone gripe with it was the constant framerate drops.
@Wootallica
Wahh, someone has an opinion.
Anyways, I'm assuming it's to make people get all the bugs out the first time/lower the amount of patches they have to upload all the time. If they make it 40k a patch not many people are going to put em out/will do most stuff right the first time around.
Wahh, someone has an opinion.
Anyways, I'm assuming it's to make people get all the bugs out the first time/lower the amount of patches they have to upload all the time. If they make it 40k a patch not many people are going to put em out/will do most stuff right the first time around.
Developers have to pay a licensing fee to release games on a company's console. It appears that you have to pay AND agree to exclusivity when making deals with the dev- I mean, Microsoft.
Well, other than maybe a couple of games a year, Japanese games have been sucking some fat donkey dick for a while now; his opinion is shared by many.
To be fair, it IS Microsoft's bandwidth being used to download that patch, and bandwidth isn't free. I'm not gonna claim to know the ins and outs of how patching works, that's just what comes to mind. Someone has to pay for the bandwidth used to download it. Why shouldn't that be the person who made the game that had to be patched?
All of this would be free on Steam. Seems like Valve treats their developers almost as well as they treat their customers. Nevermind that patching on PC is free in general anyway (duh).
"He doesn't appreciate games that treat the player like a 3 year old: holding your hand through everything, repeating directions, etc."
Sadly it's not just Japanese games that have gotten this way. This whole console generation has seen a dumbing-down of games in general, especially with the explosion of QTEs.
"He doesn't appreciate games that treat the player like a 3 year old: holding your hand through everything, repeating directions, etc."
Sadly it's not just Japanese games that have gotten this way. This whole console generation has seen a dumbing-down of games in general, especially with the explosion of QTEs.
The patch thing is huge, an MS really need to get a better system for doing patches. There's no excuse for this shit.
But
Phil adds on the blog posting that they "already owe Microsoft a LOT of money for the privilege of being on their platform." Polytron apparently has to pay Microsoft for being an exclusive on Xbox Live Arcade.
I something I find very hard to believe. How did Phil mess up so badly that he has to pay MS a ton of money to be on their platform? Did he get funded by MS, and didn't make enough from the game to pay back that funding? I've followed a lot of other indie devs who publish on XBLA, and I've never heard of any bullshit like this before. Even Team Meat, who came away disappointed with working with MS, still made a huge profit from XBLA. (Though they made a much huger profit on steam)
I feel that Fish would have to have royally fucked up somewhere to somehow be in the position of owing Microsoft money at this point.
If there's some sort of reanoble explanation I'd love to hear it, but for now I'm just going to assume Fish is kind of an idiot, at least when it comes to the actual business, pr, and publishing part of game creation.
But
Phil adds on the blog posting that they "already owe Microsoft a LOT of money for the privilege of being on their platform." Polytron apparently has to pay Microsoft for being an exclusive on Xbox Live Arcade.
I something I find very hard to believe. How did Phil mess up so badly that he has to pay MS a ton of money to be on their platform? Did he get funded by MS, and didn't make enough from the game to pay back that funding? I've followed a lot of other indie devs who publish on XBLA, and I've never heard of any bullshit like this before. Even Team Meat, who came away disappointed with working with MS, still made a huge profit from XBLA. (Though they made a much huger profit on steam)
I feel that Fish would have to have royally fucked up somewhere to somehow be in the position of owing Microsoft money at this point.
If there's some sort of reanoble explanation I'd love to hear it, but for now I'm just going to assume Fish is kind of an idiot, at least when it comes to the actual business, pr, and publishing part of game creation.
@Jinx
Yes. But I've especially felt this in recent Mario and Zelda titles and the like.
The last game I can think of that was non-Japanese and was REALLY dumbed down was Saints Row: The Third. But, at least that had the whole "new engine, built from the ground up" excuse I guess.
Yes. But I've especially felt this in recent Mario and Zelda titles and the like.
The last game I can think of that was non-Japanese and was REALLY dumbed down was Saints Row: The Third. But, at least that had the whole "new engine, built from the ground up" excuse I guess.
@caramel
I have similar reservations on this matter. Fish doesn't seem to be either explaining the situation clear enough or is mad that he got the shaft in this deal. He must have agreed to exclusivity for promotions/incentives/something else. Probably didn't get what he wanted since he missed, most if not all, of his milestones. Most publishers would either back out or switch developers if they did what Phil did.
I have similar reservations on this matter. Fish doesn't seem to be either explaining the situation clear enough or is mad that he got the shaft in this deal. He must have agreed to exclusivity for promotions/incentives/something else. Probably didn't get what he wanted since he missed, most if not all, of his milestones. Most publishers would either back out or switch developers if they did what Phil did.
Why the fuck is patching so much, and why do developers have to pay the price? Publishers want to act like the digital market is the land of milk and honey, where everything is pure profit, maybe they need to take the bad with the good, including whatever insignificant cost giving players an extra couple hundred kilobytes of data would cost. I guess there is the unintended consequence of encouraging developers to not release broken products in the first place, but to me, patches are pretty much the only positive thing about consoles being hooked up to the internet, when developers can't even do that, then there is some seriously messed up shit going on. Microsoft needs developers more than they need Microsoft, honestly this game should just be a steam exclusive.
All of this could have been avoided, Phil, if you'd just made it for PC. If you'd just made it for PC in the first place, you could have put it up on Steam and have it fixed in a flash.
But no, you had to partner up with Microsoft and their shitty, aging platform.
Let this be a lesson to ALL console developers, but especially Microsoft partners...develop for PC or be doomed to irrelevance. Period.
And for those of you saying that "the games industry is screwed", you've got it backwards. The CONSOLE industry is screwed. PC is doing excellent. It's moving forward, progressing with the technology we have available to us. It upgrades, moves, changes with the rest of the world.
Consoles are screwed. And there's no real reason they shouldn't be.
May they rot along with their outdated business models.
But no, you had to partner up with Microsoft and their shitty, aging platform.
Let this be a lesson to ALL console developers, but especially Microsoft partners...develop for PC or be doomed to irrelevance. Period.
And for those of you saying that "the games industry is screwed", you've got it backwards. The CONSOLE industry is screwed. PC is doing excellent. It's moving forward, progressing with the technology we have available to us. It upgrades, moves, changes with the rest of the world.
Consoles are screwed. And there's no real reason they shouldn't be.
May they rot along with their outdated business models.
And if Fez comes to PC, watch it sell more than it did on XBLA? But eh this is what I been saying to some friends, 360 lacks exclusives. Those friends mention XBLA but those good XBLA games end up on PC as well at some point.
Bob: YES
I think the whole "pay to be an exclusive" thing involves getting extra marketing from Microsoft for their game. So they aren't paying for nothing exactly...? Still ridiculous, though.
I think the whole "pay to be an exclusive" thing involves getting extra marketing from Microsoft for their game. So they aren't paying for nothing exactly...? Still ridiculous, though.
keep in mind this is the same person who bragged on twitter multiple times about getting tens of thousands of dollars from igf after winning twice with the same game. it's not like he's poor and can't afford it.
I don't understand this. Games on the indie channel get patches and none of them could ever shell out $40,000.
@BobPalindrome: your pc fanboy is showing.
I hope other devs actually learn from ths shit. I believe they should have it harder, I'm tired of devs getting away with glitch ass, broken fuck games.
"but we can patch it later"
No fuck you. When I throw down $10, $15, $20, or $60 on a fucking game I expect it to work, on fucking pc or consoles.
If you release a game that is considered unplayable or broken, you deserve the consequences that come with it. Deal with it, that's life.
I hope other devs actually learn from ths shit. I believe they should have it harder, I'm tired of devs getting away with glitch ass, broken fuck games.
"but we can patch it later"
No fuck you. When I throw down $10, $15, $20, or $60 on a fucking game I expect it to work, on fucking pc or consoles.
If you release a game that is considered unplayable or broken, you deserve the consequences that come with it. Deal with it, that's life.
Honestly, I wonder more and more what the fuck we pay for with Xbox Live. That service rakes in cash hand over fist.
They've got subscription fees. Ad revenue. DLC and games sales. Whatever premium they bleed for apps like Netflix. And supposedly $40K cash re-certification patch penalty?
Games are hard to make and it's nigh impossible to quash all bugs before release. Especially if it's a small team. Regardless, applying a patch can't possibly cost $40K in overhead or PC games wouldn't have been releasing free patches all these years now. I understand Microsoft wants to "maintain quality" but by penalizing a small developer who can't afford to pay for the privilege to patch his games hurts the end user and impacts quality. This is clear in this case because it will never get fixed.
What a shame.
Patching should be subsidized by XBL subs period. We pay for that service to play games on and the games we pay for should work. I really feel bad for the players impacted by this bug because it's something that could have been fixed if it wasn't for Microsoft's backwards anti-consumer patch policy.
They've got subscription fees. Ad revenue. DLC and games sales. Whatever premium they bleed for apps like Netflix. And supposedly $40K cash re-certification patch penalty?
Games are hard to make and it's nigh impossible to quash all bugs before release. Especially if it's a small team. Regardless, applying a patch can't possibly cost $40K in overhead or PC games wouldn't have been releasing free patches all these years now. I understand Microsoft wants to "maintain quality" but by penalizing a small developer who can't afford to pay for the privilege to patch his games hurts the end user and impacts quality. This is clear in this case because it will never get fixed.
What a shame.
Patching should be subsidized by XBL subs period. We pay for that service to play games on and the games we pay for should work. I really feel bad for the players impacted by this bug because it's something that could have been fixed if it wasn't for Microsoft's backwards anti-consumer patch policy.
@BobPalindrome Hahahahahahahah yeah consoles are screwHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA I can't even finish that thought! Nerds are hilarious some times
I feel I should point out that Sony also charges $40,000 to release a patch as well, it's not just MS.
@Ragnar Dragonfyre
I don't think that's a penalty I think 40k is the cost to push a patch through certification regardless. Of course if as in this case a patch made it through with a potentially game breaking bug being overlooked by the certs.... you would think a repatch would be on the house.
I don't think that's a penalty I think 40k is the cost to push a patch through certification regardless. Of course if as in this case a patch made it through with a potentially game breaking bug being overlooked by the certs.... you would think a repatch would be on the house.
@tristy
there is no way they are using forty thousand dollars worth of bandwidth. not even close. i know you try to look at all angles here but trust me, that is just not the case. bandwidth costs money, but it is not the element platinum that some make it out to be.
anyhow, it appears microsoft is up to it's usual bullshit. i can see charging for dlc which will reap actual money, but for patches? that's just cold hearted money grabbing tactics (ie, "business").
there is no way they are using forty thousand dollars worth of bandwidth. not even close. i know you try to look at all angles here but trust me, that is just not the case. bandwidth costs money, but it is not the element platinum that some make it out to be.
anyhow, it appears microsoft is up to it's usual bullshit. i can see charging for dlc which will reap actual money, but for patches? that's just cold hearted money grabbing tactics (ie, "business").
Phil Fish, business man of the year. Have one of the most recognizable indie games, somehow end up owing someone else when it's finally released.
@Complete Global Saturation
Yes yes, Im sure the games of your childhood were made out of sugar and pure love, no one ever thought about money and developers were just happy to work under Nintendo's strict third-party licensing rules.
Yes yes, Im sure the games of your childhood were made out of sugar and pure love, no one ever thought about money and developers were just happy to work under Nintendo's strict third-party licensing rules.
Glad to see the typical "YEA 360 EXCLUSIVE FUCK OTHER PLATFORMS" heel-face-turn "FUCK 360 MICROSOFT SUXXXX" crap is still being pulled by loudmouth indie devs who can't be assed to look into a company's policies.
I can't say I feel particularly bad.
I can't say I feel particularly bad.
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