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I just need them to explain why joker and all my crew, (even those with me at the final battle) were flying away from the battle!
I hope to god Bioware does either:
A: Apologize
B: Troll and give a new ending as DLC.
Not just for the fan's benefit mind you, but so everyone can point to each "pro" reviewer and fanboy who currently defends the ending and call them the true retard they are for pretending it was ok.
A: Apologize
B: Troll and give a new ending as DLC.
Not just for the fan's benefit mind you, but so everyone can point to each "pro" reviewer and fanboy who currently defends the ending and call them the true retard they are for pretending it was ok.
To me Destructoid are the ones coming across as the petty entitled ones now
So someone dosnt like a game you like, so what? Its just a videogame as you say; get over it
So someone dosnt like a game you like, so what? Its just a videogame as you say; get over it
Come on Jim, do an opinion piece. This objective reporting is killing me.
PLEASE BURN EVERYTHING DOWN. please
PLEASE BURN EVERYTHING DOWN. please
Of all the write-ups I've seen like this, this one is actually one of the poorer ones. It makes some excellent points but also spends a lot of time grasping for straws. Skip to the stuff about Casper the astro-ghost if you really want to see how the story falls apart in the end.
I can't wait for this whole thing just to blow over, sick to death of seeing how far some of the fans are going with this.
I'll just leave this here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbghjn7_Byc
Explains why the ending works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbghjn7_Byc
Explains why the ending works.
SPOILER ALERT !!!! I was disappointed, and had more questions at the end. I am a loyal fan of the Mass effect series and look forward to the next mass effect. It just seemed the game was lacking at the end. I agree with many Kats, Shepard should have had more choices in the end of the game, like telling the AI to go to hell, and once he had control of why couldn't he save the relays ???? I also was confused and let down about the Normandys other crew members. The lack of planetary travel and discovery left me feeling the game cut corners. I love Mass Effect, i do look forward to dlc and the New Mass Effect game. I also believe without the consumer dialog feeding Bioware with our views only makes the next game better, and helps with the creation of DLC, and updates to fix glitches.
"Mass Effect fans have too much time, could be used playing more video games"
There, I think I fixed the headline.
@Startyde
What do they have to apologize for? Game ended, people didn't like it and should move on. Thats all there is to it.
If every person or company ever to tell a story apologized every time someone didn't like their ending the internet would have been founded to house the library of apologizes we'd probably have instead of porn, possibly at the request of the library of congress, because they couldn't possibly keep up with the spacial demands that such a high volume of incoming apologizes would place on them.
In short: you can't please everyone, and BioWare can only hope Dragon Age 3 (which is my guess at the next time they can massively disappoint on this level again) won't go the same way.
There, I think I fixed the headline.
@Startyde
What do they have to apologize for? Game ended, people didn't like it and should move on. Thats all there is to it.
If every person or company ever to tell a story apologized every time someone didn't like their ending the internet would have been founded to house the library of apologizes we'd probably have instead of porn, possibly at the request of the library of congress, because they couldn't possibly keep up with the spacial demands that such a high volume of incoming apologizes would place on them.
In short: you can't please everyone, and BioWare can only hope Dragon Age 3 (which is my guess at the next time they can massively disappoint on this level again) won't go the same way.
While there are some good points here and there, I find myself rolling my eyes over how desperate these people are to undermine each and every second of the ending. Some of the logic seen here is more contrived than the flawed logic that Bioware apparently used.
I'm going to blow sausage yogurt across the room when the next DLC comes out and confirms the Indoctrination theory. Not only will the ME3 ending instantly become one of the best in gaming history, Bioware will instantly become one of the most successful trolls in Internet history.
So fucking praying that happens.
So fucking praying that happens.
We going to continue to ignore this: http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Revuhlooshun/never-trust-a-reaper-224005.phtml
The Indoctrination Theory makes a ton of sense. We should discuss this rather than giving a bunch of whiny entitled pricks attention.
The Indoctrination Theory makes a ton of sense. We should discuss this rather than giving a bunch of whiny entitled pricks attention.
i love that they say things like "Did he use space magic to construct these devices in the moments it took Shepard to reach that room?" as if thats less plausible than teleporting yourself over short distances, holographic robots that can interact with physical entities, holographic tools that can "almost instantly" generate a physical blade, robots that network themselves across the universe yet have to physically interact with their weapons and ships, and all the other "reality based" things in the mass effect universe.
@smoger - Yeah, you don't focus on the science that ME doesn't bother to explain (tech, biotics, etc.) and just pay attention to the lore.
Its why the indoctrination idea works.
Its why the indoctrination idea works.
I'm not sold on the Indoctrination theory - I've seen some convincing arguments, but as a whole I think people are just attempting to justify the ending.
My money is on Casey Hudson saying in two weeks "it wasn't indoctrination - deal with it", or Epilogue DLC that has nothing to do with the theory.
My money is on Casey Hudson saying in two weeks "it wasn't indoctrination - deal with it", or Epilogue DLC that has nothing to do with the theory.
To me, these fans are sounding like how George Lucas would be if he couldn't edit Star Wars for the billionth time. Like a giant, whiny old fart.
@N7
Who do you think came up with that theory? The whiny "entitled" pricks did. Not only is it fully supported in the argument this article about, it is the number one demand made by the whiny "entitled" pricks over in the official suggestions thread on BSN. Almost every whiny "entitled" prick who has a problem with the ending is crossing his fingers for the indoctrination theory to be real. So anyone in favor of the indoctrination theory is on the same side as the whiny "entitled" pricks. Go figure.
Who do you think came up with that theory? The whiny "entitled" pricks did. Not only is it fully supported in the argument this article about, it is the number one demand made by the whiny "entitled" pricks over in the official suggestions thread on BSN. Almost every whiny "entitled" prick who has a problem with the ending is crossing his fingers for the indoctrination theory to be real. So anyone in favor of the indoctrination theory is on the same side as the whiny "entitled" pricks. Go figure.
From the official ME facebook:
"We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."
Which I personally interpret as "Please continue the rage and controversy while we finish up the DLC that proves how wrong you are and how awesome we are."
At least that's what I want it to mean. And Chris, stop urinating in my Raisin Bran.
"We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."
Which I personally interpret as "Please continue the rage and controversy while we finish up the DLC that proves how wrong you are and how awesome we are."
At least that's what I want it to mean. And Chris, stop urinating in my Raisin Bran.
@Tristrix
We're all on the same train, man! I've been a fan since 2007 -- I'm eager to see what Bioware makes of all this.
We're all on the same train, man! I've been a fan since 2007 -- I'm eager to see what Bioware makes of all this.
You can be annoyed at some people's demands to rectify the situation, but the fact a work of the medium warrants the level of analysis, criticism, and debate makes me feel better about the direction consumers may drag this portions of this industry kicking and screaming. A place where writing, dialog and plot aren't a total after thought in more titles.
@Chris Carter
Casey Hudson and Mac Walters have already defended the ending in a way that implies that is was in fact the ending they wanted. So far what little evidence we have from them points to it being, as you say, a way for fans to justify the nonsensical ending. However, that doesn't mean that they won't take it and run with it. That's what the suggestion thread is up on BSN for, and the indoctrination theory is mentioned in almost every post.
Casey Hudson and Mac Walters have already defended the ending in a way that implies that is was in fact the ending they wanted. So far what little evidence we have from them points to it being, as you say, a way for fans to justify the nonsensical ending. However, that doesn't mean that they won't take it and run with it. That's what the suggestion thread is up on BSN for, and the indoctrination theory is mentioned in almost every post.
@Chris
The whole indoctrination thing would have been a fine piece of storytelling, genuinely messing with players in an artful way, unique to the medium of video games.
But I'm with you: as convincing as the arguments are, I think people are grasping at straws, and Bioware will just waive their middle finger at them as the roll around in piles of money or release an epilogue slide show for $10.
The whole indoctrination thing would have been a fine piece of storytelling, genuinely messing with players in an artful way, unique to the medium of video games.
But I'm with you: as convincing as the arguments are, I think people are grasping at straws, and Bioware will just waive their middle finger at them as the roll around in piles of money or release an epilogue slide show for $10.
@TheNephilym Stop whining and putting words in my mouth. It's all there for you... pretty plainly actually you just have to look for it. "Would you kindly" watch the ending again... Shep is out of it, confused / muddled... starting to look like a Husk and seeing an ghostly figure of a child he's had "visions" of the entire game while being exposed to reapers... Yep we're making all this up.
Then said Omega Reaper takes the form of a vulnerable memory to convince Shep not to destroy them. Totally stretching it I know, essentially there is no choice. It's be indoctrinated or not.
Then said Omega Reaper takes the form of a vulnerable memory to convince Shep not to destroy them. Totally stretching it I know, essentially there is no choice. It's be indoctrinated or not.
Dunno if I want "Epilogue" or "Ending" DLC because it brings back the issue of why isn't the real ending in the closing chapter of a trilogy?
Its better to just leave the ending as it is than for Bioware to dig a bigger hole for themselves. I'm not waiting around for another ending. They had their chance to do it right and get it out on retail launch.
@Nephilym - The people who are acting "entitled" are the people demanding the ending be [i]changed[/]i, not the people that think the ending makes sense or believe the indoctrination idea.
Its better to just leave the ending as it is than for Bioware to dig a bigger hole for themselves. I'm not waiting around for another ending. They had their chance to do it right and get it out on retail launch.
@Nephilym - The people who are acting "entitled" are the people demanding the ending be [i]changed[/]i, not the people that think the ending makes sense or believe the indoctrination idea.
This whole ordeal reminds me of looking at the reviews of a david lynch movie on IMDB... "WORST MOVIE EVER" "MAKES NO SENSE" "WTF I FELL ASLEEP? SO BORING"
@N7
Dude... You misread my post. Or maybe I misread yours? I thought you were referring to the people unhappy with the ending as "whiny entitled pricks." And if you were, you shouldn't, because they are the ones that brought the indoctrination theory to light in the first place, and I fully support it. So either way, it looks like I'm on your side, asshole. :P
Dude... You misread my post. Or maybe I misread yours? I thought you were referring to the people unhappy with the ending as "whiny entitled pricks." And if you were, you shouldn't, because they are the ones that brought the indoctrination theory to light in the first place, and I fully support it. So either way, it looks like I'm on your side, asshole. :P
I reckon that BW will just confirm the indoctrination stuff just to make it look like they meant for the ending to be a nonsensical piece of shit all the long.
SEE GUYS, WE'RE NOT RETARDED AFTER ALL!
SEE GUYS, WE'RE NOT RETARDED AFTER ALL!
@Neph
This still sounds like two different groups of people here. As in, you have one group saying "The ending sucks! The Indoctrination Theory would make it ok though." Then you have another group saying "The ending is fine. The Indoctrination theory would be badass."
That doesn't sound like the same thing to me. I mean, if you're trying to convince me that I've got something in common with the people I find distasteful (i.e. those going overboard with rage and/or demanding the ending be changed), fine. I'll accept that. But I'd still counter that there's a right and wrong way to go about things, and they're still very very wrong in that regard.
This still sounds like two different groups of people here. As in, you have one group saying "The ending sucks! The Indoctrination Theory would make it ok though." Then you have another group saying "The ending is fine. The Indoctrination theory would be badass."
That doesn't sound like the same thing to me. I mean, if you're trying to convince me that I've got something in common with the people I find distasteful (i.e. those going overboard with rage and/or demanding the ending be changed), fine. I'll accept that. But I'd still counter that there's a right and wrong way to go about things, and they're still very very wrong in that regard.
@TheNephilym "They" is a broad suggestion, if you got that interpretation from them than you did. I did not. I saw through the ruse midway through the child talking.
When watching the video again he mentions "You want to destroy us" several times. He's a lying reaper making a last ditch effort to control you. What I believe is if you pick the right choice shepard gets off the damn floor and uses the console to activate the weapon. We'll find out in DLC and I think that was always in the cards, maybe at this point it'll actually be free. But yes this whole debacle is straight video game tabloid bullshit. An artist shouldn't compromise his vision because people don't like it, in this case I do believe more closure is needed and on the way. People just need to calm the funk down and wait.
When watching the video again he mentions "You want to destroy us" several times. He's a lying reaper making a last ditch effort to control you. What I believe is if you pick the right choice shepard gets off the damn floor and uses the console to activate the weapon. We'll find out in DLC and I think that was always in the cards, maybe at this point it'll actually be free. But yes this whole debacle is straight video game tabloid bullshit. An artist shouldn't compromise his vision because people don't like it, in this case I do believe more closure is needed and on the way. People just need to calm the funk down and wait.
@SilentProtagonist
Wrong. They are one and the same. Most of the people who want a "new" ending support the Indoctrination theory because they know it's makes too much sense to pass up and would be the best way to seamlessly integrate a more fleshed out ending. Maybe you're not keeping up with this as well as I am, but very few are pushing for a fully edited ending. And if the "entitled" are only the ones who want that, how are they getting any buzz at all? There are so few of them.
Wrong. They are one and the same. Most of the people who want a "new" ending support the Indoctrination theory because they know it's makes too much sense to pass up and would be the best way to seamlessly integrate a more fleshed out ending. Maybe you're not keeping up with this as well as I am, but very few are pushing for a fully edited ending. And if the "entitled" are only the ones who want that, how are they getting any buzz at all? There are so few of them.
@Tristix
Yeah, that's about right. Some think it sucked some think it was okay, but the majority think the indocrination theory is a good one. So there is common ground. That's what I'm trying to clarify here. If you support the indocrination theory, then we're practically on the same team - even though some of us are more aggressive about it than others.
Yeah, that's about right. Some think it sucked some think it was okay, but the majority think the indocrination theory is a good one. So there is common ground. That's what I'm trying to clarify here. If you support the indocrination theory, then we're practically on the same team - even though some of us are more aggressive about it than others.
Reading it right now. While I do find there to be occasions of obvious nit-picking, there is some good narrative analysis going on here. I prefer to remain neutral on the ending, since it doesn't take away from any of the wonderful characters and stories that take place during the series. Still though, if EA allowed BioWare to amend people's frustration through DLC, I could be up for that.
@Tristrix Yar, Indoctrination was my original take away and I was happy with the ending. He passes out on the floor with hackett screaming at him to do something... at that point I believe the rest is in his head IE that beam of light he enters is his consciousness. Also note you don't hear hackett at all when up in lala land with Reaper boy... why is that? :o
Being the Nature of Bioware games it's natural we'll get shitty DLC following up an Epilogue. Which i'm hoping for Epilogue DLC to explain it all and give closure to your choices and how they shaped the Universe.
Being the Nature of Bioware games it's natural we'll get shitty DLC following up an Epilogue. Which i'm hoping for Epilogue DLC to explain it all and give closure to your choices and how they shaped the Universe.
@TheNephilym No, we are not one in the same. Stop sheeping us up with idiots filing shit with the FTC. Shit is so immature.
@N7
Indeed, exactly. I think it's going to be very telling when/if the indoctrination theory is confirmed, when we see how various people react. As in, those that say "Yeah! Awesome!" or those that say "Ok fine the ending sucks a bit less now" or those that say "HA! Bioware gave in to our demands! We made this happen!"
I think that's going to be a great way to distinguish what type of gamer, and person, they are.
Indeed, exactly. I think it's going to be very telling when/if the indoctrination theory is confirmed, when we see how various people react. As in, those that say "Yeah! Awesome!" or those that say "Ok fine the ending sucks a bit less now" or those that say "HA! Bioware gave in to our demands! We made this happen!"
I think that's going to be a great way to distinguish what type of gamer, and person, they are.
I like the ending now, but if they confirm the indoctrination theory I'd change my mind.
So chalk that up to a third party.
So chalk that up to a third party.
@N7
That's the problem, dude. That's what YOU'RE doing. You're the one "sheeping" people up with that ONE asshole. I don't think anyone cares to be associated with bullshit like that - not even the ones who demand a better ending. I was pretty upset by the ending, maybe a little too upset at first, but I never felt that I was horribly wronged in some way or thought it would be cool to take legal action. So how is it fair that anytime I discuss how much I think the ending fucking sucked I get lumped into the same category of "whiny entitled pricks" as that guy or anyone else? It's not. So if you have a problem with people "Sheeping" you into a specific group, stop fucking doing it to others.
That's the problem, dude. That's what YOU'RE doing. You're the one "sheeping" people up with that ONE asshole. I don't think anyone cares to be associated with bullshit like that - not even the ones who demand a better ending. I was pretty upset by the ending, maybe a little too upset at first, but I never felt that I was horribly wronged in some way or thought it would be cool to take legal action. So how is it fair that anytime I discuss how much I think the ending fucking sucked I get lumped into the same category of "whiny entitled pricks" as that guy or anyone else? It's not. So if you have a problem with people "Sheeping" you into a specific group, stop fucking doing it to others.
I am so glad I never got into this series. 4 hours of the first game totally turned me off.
Can't say I'm surprised this happened tho.
Can't say I'm surprised this happened tho.
@TheNephilym I'll tell you why, because you replied to me slighting whiny entitled pricks all defensively lumping you in with them. Instead you could of simply said: you know I think the ending sucked but yah this behavior is stupid.
Instead you went off. An you're CAPPING entire words like an asshole. It implies yelling, assholes do that. Please don't.
Instead you went off. An you're CAPPING entire words like an asshole. It implies yelling, assholes do that. Please don't.
And to be honest I didn't read any of this particular stuff. They may have some valid points but at this juncture I'm just tired of all the kerfluffle. It's gone way to far, people need to calm down this should not have gone this far to be lighting up all the news outlets still.
And this isn't the first time... when ME2 launched the Bioware forums were a spewing cesspool of filth but we didn't get that covered. Same with Dragon Age 2 but DA2 earned it for the most part... and didn't get covered.
And this isn't the first time... when ME2 launched the Bioware forums were a spewing cesspool of filth but we didn't get that covered. Same with Dragon Age 2 but DA2 earned it for the most part... and didn't get covered.
This document only edifies my viewpoint that the ending, though not perfect, is fine. I find myself unconvinced by this document - it's grasping for straws and selectively ignoring certain possibilities (e.g. it ignores the possibility that the Reapers weren't actually aware of their own design purpose and thus it takes everything the Reapers say as truth, etc.).
The indoctrination theory doesn't make that much more sense than taking the ending literally. I think it would make a better ending, but it doesn't make sense to say Bioware intended it.
First, you've got the stargazer scene, which places people living on the same planet that the Normandy crashed on. Also they reference Shepard which should mean that the reapers did not win and harvest all the intelligent life in the galaxy. Even should the reapers somehow have not found that one planet, that means people with knowledge of Shepard were there somehow, meaning the Normandy scene still happened. Adding the stargazer scene post-credits as some additional indoctrinated delusion makes even less sense. If it means that Shepard fights the indoctrination and then will find a way to defeat the reapers, it means we still have no ending, because we the player don't get to do so.
It also goes against Bioware's philosophy of making choices. There shouldn't be one right choice (destroy the reapers). I remember with DA2, Bioware said that there used to be a way to save your mother from death, but they removed it because they didn't like people thinking that they made the wrong choice. Choices can have different consequences, but there shouldn't be an obvious "right" or "wrong" choice. Of course, that so much of the ending does have a right and wrong choice (renegade trigger with Illusive Man if you don't choose paragon choices), and that there is this ending tied to one choice does mean the philosophy was kinda thrown out the window.
First, you've got the stargazer scene, which places people living on the same planet that the Normandy crashed on. Also they reference Shepard which should mean that the reapers did not win and harvest all the intelligent life in the galaxy. Even should the reapers somehow have not found that one planet, that means people with knowledge of Shepard were there somehow, meaning the Normandy scene still happened. Adding the stargazer scene post-credits as some additional indoctrinated delusion makes even less sense. If it means that Shepard fights the indoctrination and then will find a way to defeat the reapers, it means we still have no ending, because we the player don't get to do so.
It also goes against Bioware's philosophy of making choices. There shouldn't be one right choice (destroy the reapers). I remember with DA2, Bioware said that there used to be a way to save your mother from death, but they removed it because they didn't like people thinking that they made the wrong choice. Choices can have different consequences, but there shouldn't be an obvious "right" or "wrong" choice. Of course, that so much of the ending does have a right and wrong choice (renegade trigger with Illusive Man if you don't choose paragon choices), and that there is this ending tied to one choice does mean the philosophy was kinda thrown out the window.
@N7
Assholes also refer to people as "whiny entitled pricks," which you did, all the while supporting the one thing that they have been asking for the most (even in the article you were responding to). I was simply clarifying to you that the people you are being a dick to are looking forward to the same thing as you are, making it even shittier for you to call them "whiny entitled pricks." It's like a fat kid calling someone a "lard ass" or a gay dude calling someone a "fag." And if you were referring to a specific person, you should have said so instead of using the same generalized statement that everyone else has been using to refer to people like you, Tristix, and I, who support the Indoctrination theory.
Assholes also refer to people as "whiny entitled pricks," which you did, all the while supporting the one thing that they have been asking for the most (even in the article you were responding to). I was simply clarifying to you that the people you are being a dick to are looking forward to the same thing as you are, making it even shittier for you to call them "whiny entitled pricks." It's like a fat kid calling someone a "lard ass" or a gay dude calling someone a "fag." And if you were referring to a specific person, you should have said so instead of using the same generalized statement that everyone else has been using to refer to people like you, Tristix, and I, who support the Indoctrination theory.
@N7
As for that follow-up post I completely agree with you. That's why the majority of the people who would like to see an improved ending have moved to the BSN's suggestion thread, where they can provide constructive feedback to Bioware that may actually be taken seriously. The bitching has died down significantly. It's the gaming sites that continue to perpetuate this stuff.
As for that follow-up post I completely agree with you. That's why the majority of the people who would like to see an improved ending have moved to the BSN's suggestion thread, where they can provide constructive feedback to Bioware that may actually be taken seriously. The bitching has died down significantly. It's the gaming sites that continue to perpetuate this stuff.
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