The ridiculous controversy about a game that we know nothing about continues apace, as families of U.S war dead have contributed to the whining mass of biased over-raction. Despite the fact that these people have never seen the game or any of its content, they too have decided that Konami is "trivializing" and "making fun" of those who died in the Iraq War. Apparently if your son dies in Iraq, you gain psychic powers like this.
"We question how anyone can trivialize a war that continues to kill and maim members of the military and Iraqi civilians to this day," exaggerates Gold Star Families Speak Out. "The war is not a game and neither was the Battle of Fallujah. For Konami and [developer] Atomic Games to minimize the reality of an ongoing war and at the same time profit off the deaths of people close to us by making it 'entertaining' is despicable."
The sister of someone who died in Iraq added her own reactionary two cents. She too has gained mystical powers to see into the future and predict this game's content: "When our loved one's 'health meter' dropped to '0', they didn't get to 'retry' the mission. When they took a bullet, they didn't just get to pick up a health pack and keep 'playing' ... they suffered, they cried, they died. We - their parents, siblings, spouses, children and friends - absolutely find it disgusting and repulsive that those so far detached (and clinging to denial of reality) find it so easy to poke fun at such a thing."
Health meters confirmed for Six Days! If these people are upset now, I can't wait until they find out about the minigame where you piss on the grave of Princess Diana while Adolf Hitler rapes Iraq babies for the masturbating audience of George Bush and The Devil.
Again, for perspective ... this game was announced just two frigging days ago.
Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize.
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Contest:
8:30 PM on 04.09.2009
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NAHHHH,you're just being funny, you.
'Bullet taking'(innovative new concept I'm sure) and Health packs are confirmed too!
just call it sandbattle or something
& HOW exactly are they making fun of people. It looks to be a very serious game.
For those that make comparisons to all the Viet Nam and WWII shooter, understand that this circumstance is a bit different than video games about previous wars in that the loss of loved one is probably still very strong and I don't think we can fault anyone for overreacting when thoughts of a loss loved one come to surface. Posters are entitled to their opinion but I don't think you are doing service to anyone by just calling these people stupid when they are dealing with such a serious sacrifice.
In the end I think that Konami is more than entitled to express themselves on this subject but they would be naive to not approach it with the utmost in sincerity. This includes recognizing that their are many families that are dealing with stinging loss of loved ones due to this war.
Dyeah
I know, I know I'm traitor to games blah blah. If it makes you feel any better the movies about the current Iraq war rubbed me the wrong way to. Any media outside documentaries imho are not quite kosher. When it comes down to it, for me, videgames and movies are for entertainment and I don't feel comfortable being "entertained" by something still killing people today.
I also agree that these people are within their rights to be slamming a title like this. And though as misinformed as they might be, to simplify the woman's comments into health bars and medi-packs is only sidestepping her point. We can't hope to expect a currently commercial game to not 'trivialize' war. That is the nature of the medium. Just as how hollywood trivializes war as well.
Even if this were an ultra-realistic tac-shooter, 'Six Days' would still (as it should) be a sensitive topic. But that doesn't mean this game shouldn't be made. It's now up to Konami how they want to handle this scenario, (which is, of course, not to simply hide behind the 'it's just a game' clause).
But it's up to the gaming community to recognize, that these families also deserve at least a modicum of respect for their loss.
Even if they got the game completely wrong, wouldn't their intentions still be in the right?
And Jim, you are totally right about them needing to see the game before they judge it.
"Originally I thought this was really disrespectful towards my son who died in Fallujah, until I saw the achievements list."
I bet that will totally happen.
And what's this about trivializing the horros of the Iraq War that soldiers had to face? World War 2 soldiers faced fucking Nazis who were fucking armed to the teeth. They faced against tanks, planes, artillery, and fucking submarines. Compared to WW2 soldiers, soldiers in Iraqi are security guards.
Chronic....whoo boy.
You go over there for awhile and then tell me about your "security" duty.
Whoever said anything about COD, MOH, COH, MOW, DOF and all the other WW2 games 'not' trivializing the war? They are all guilty of trivializing war.
The matter differs now simply because... I dare say... "It's too soon". But don't you, for one minute, think that other games don't trivialize WW2.
I think Chronic's point is not that they are Security Guards but compared to WW2 Soldiers they have it pretty easy, and I happen to agree. Nazi's + Japanese far more scary than Religious nut jobs with homemade bombs and ak's.
Maybe if we close our eyes real tight, put our hands over our ears, and scream la la la la the world will disappear and we can retreat into the fake reality we create for ourselves.
Chronic, sorry to say but your post was difficult to read. Respecting the grieving families of one war does not take away from the sacrifices for other wars.
On a separate point, perhaps a more appropriate argument against the "modern console" FPS portrayal of the WWII wartime medium is maybe that it started rather authentic with the first MOH and COD games and then degenerated into the incorporation of Nazi Zombies. We maybe would all be agreeing on the general point that video games should require good writing and not lazy stereotypes; although it is always fun to kill zombies.
But, I seriously doubt it. I imagine it'll be similar to most of the games we've seen already, with guns, bombs, tanks, blood, death, and all sorts of war stuff.
I have a friend I went to High School with over there. He hates being there, but he's doing his duty. That's your duty when you join the military.
Don't take it personally if they make a game about war. Yeah, if he dies, I'll be upset. But I'd be more upset at the people in charge who put him in harms way... Again.. Comes with the territory. It is the Military after all.
"And what's this about trivializing the horros of the Iraq War that soldiers had to face? World War 2 soldiers faced fucking Nazis who were fucking armed to the teeth. They faced against tanks, planes, artillery, and fucking submarines. Compared to WW2 soldiers, soldiers in Iraqi are security guards."
"I think Chronic's point is not that they are Security Guards but compared to WW2 Soldiers they have it pretty easy, and I happen to agree. Nazi's + Japanese far more scary than Religious nut jobs with homemade bombs and ak's."
And the winner of the just truly an awful person award is:
"This game is going to have regenerating health solely to spite that irritating bitch."
Totally. How dare a grieving sister feel that way. She really should have been thinking more about how the game was just announced, and shown more restraint while waiting for more details on the game, rather than being overwhelmed with grief over the death of a sibling who likely died a horrible death halfway around the world.
I don't have a problem with this game, but it seems like anyone who does gets ridiculed for having legitimate concerns. People disagree with you, Jim. It happens.
"Apparently if your son dies in Iraq, you gain psychic powers like this."
Champion for freedom of speech/expression all you want, but seriously, try to show a modicum of respect at the same time. Do I think Konami should be blocked from making this game or something like that? No, of course not. Do I personally think it is in bad taste? Yes, I do. Like everyone else, I have no idea what the game will actually be like, but I seriously doubt that it will have the same atmosphere, effect, or message while playing it that watching a movie like "Platoon" or a WWI/II/Korea/Vietnam documentary has.
""We question how anyone can trivialize a war that continues to kill and maim members of the military and Iraqi civilians to this day," exaggerates Gold Star Families Speak Out."
I also don't see how any part of this statement is an exaggeration. People are still dying and getting maimed, and this is going to be a GAME. If that's not trivializing it, what is? Of course, I am again assuming about the content, but I think it is safe to assume they will include some aspect of having fun, which I just don't think is appropriate at this point. Just my two (or more) cents.
Do NOT tell the dead soldiers' family members about this game, otherwise they might start raging and die from a heart attack.
Man where was the outrage that pile of shit? I remember each episode was supposed to be based on current events in the Iraq War. That game is the poster child for to soon.
Ewww. Health meter? Retry mission? Both of them are soooo 90´s. We now use Control Points and the health regenerates if you stay out of the massacre. :)
Sarcasm off. God stop bitching, this game is isnt out yet.
I know where she's coming from, but her quote is...ergh, it rings on the same level as "(the internet is) a series of tubes" to me. I know you're in pain because of a loved one, but if you're going to speak out, do your homework. I'm at least somewhat certain many of us here would take this person more seriously if she had. ...or at least, she could've worded it differently...
Anyway. I think this isn't poking fun at the ones who have lost their lives, but it could be seen as a kind of honoring. Yes, that's an asspull for the ages, but stay with me, camera guy. I can easily presume that Konami et al are not going to have us cast in the roles of those who died, but giving some sort of "realistic" credit to everyone working on the game, I can see it giving at least some people a renewed or new respect for our troops fighting this war. War is hell no matter when it took place, and what humans can do to each other for the sake of their goals and beliefs is nightmarish plain and simple.
A game may not be the best way to honor the fallen or survivors, but many of us have no idea how things really are. "This is how bad it was for these men" in a way.
Of course, my entire argument is rendered completely null and void if it's not very realistic at all. *cough* I mean, it IS a game. America's Army at least takes you partially out of the game should you fall in combat, but you still don't feel pain or anything, as far as I know. But as this was only just recently announced, I suppose it's a strange waiting game we're all going to be watching for some reason.
I love video games. I actually agree with Molyneux - I think that the best story every told will one day be told in a video game. As the genre matures, it will come to be respected as legitimate means of conveying a story - perhaps even the BEST way of telling a story.
We're not there yet.
Frankly, the vast majority of games out there today are just silly, fun ways to pass the time (that isn't necessarily a criticism). There are more mature games out there than the general public is aware of, but when I hear of a new game being released, I feel like it is equally likely (perhaps less likely) to be mature as it is to be mindless entertainment.
I was immediately uneasy when I heard about Six Days. Even as someone who has immense respect for the medium - I would love to earn a living working in this medium one day - I was aware that this subject matter would have to be tread VERY carefully. It is possible that the game will tell a great story that will make players more aware of the Iraq War without trivializing it - it is also possible that it will be pure entertainment, with little to say about current events.
I feel that we have to be more sympathetic to those who have lost loved ones in the Iraq War. They are suffering unimaginable loss, and have just been informed that the war that took their loved ones away from them is going to be represented in a medium that (even among people who have great respect for video games, such as myself) is seen as in its infancy, often producing pure, sometimes mindless, entertainment.
The burden of proof is on the game developers at this point, I'm afraid. I think that those who have lost loved ones in the most painful way should not be given the burden of learning the ins and outs of every new medium that might represent what has cost them so much, to understand whether it will treat the event in a mature or juvenile way. You're really going to accuse someone who has recently lost their brother of being ignorant for not understanding how video games (which she probably cares little about, unlike her brother) have developed in the past 10 years?
Konami needs to approach the army and veterans's organizations. Convince them (and me) that they will cover Fallujah in a mature and respectful manner, and are not just trying to cash in on this humanitarian disaster. I'm hopeful that we'll see a game that teaches us more about what our soldiers (and by extension, their families) are going through. I don't want to see a game that gives us corporate profits and a fun shooter at the cost of pain to our already mourning families of lost soldiers.
We wouldn't be so harsh on them if they would just STFU and stop being such attention whores. I've never see so many people so eager to get their name and comment into the media just so they can bitch and moan about their problems, honestly I don't care. Leave our fucking medium alone, if Konami wants to make a game about IRAQ then fucking let them, how is this any concern to them!? How is it harming them in some way? Konami isn't banging down their door with a gun to their head and forcing them to play it. Nothing but attention whores plain and simple. I have the utmost respect for our soldiers but absolutely zero respect for their families and friends who feel it is necessary to plaster the news of their loss all over the media in the vain of garnering attention to themselves so they can some how look important to their family and peers. "WAHHH I LOST MY BROTHER IN THE IRAQ WAR KONAMI IS EVIL THEY ARE TRIVIALIZING HIS DEATH!" "HEY MAH DID YOU SEE ME ON THE NEWS I TOLD THEM STUPID VIDJA GAMES A THING OR TO!"
STFU AND MOURN IN PRIVATE LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE!
Honestly, this is a war, and all rules/bets are off (as shown by the use of fuel-air explosives in the Fallujah conflict, directly contravening the Geneva convention). If people want to use it as the basis of a game, and you dont like it, dont play it. As soon as we start pandering to this audience, another comes out of the woodwork.
Does the number of people who have died in this war pale in comparison to those from WWII and Vietnam? Of course it does. But telling that to the families of the dead is not going to make them feel any better. Face it, we're still there, and it's not like WWII, where there was a clearly defined enemy in a war that everyone thought we should be in.
If you don't have a family member who was killed over there, you simply can't understand how they feel. They're probably overreacting, but let 'em cry. They at least deserve that much. The game will get made either way.
As long as a piece of interactive art about war aims to be a video game, it will probably trivialize some aspects of war for the sake of fun. As the woman in the article points out, in nearly all war games, when the player character "dies" he can simply continue -- this absolutely trivializes the situation in a way not found in most other works of art that deal with war realistically.
This is not a Jack Thompson or Roger Ebert situation. As far as I can tell, no one is trying to ban anything or say that video games can never be art. This is simply a group of people who have gone through something difficult voicing their generally valid opinions. I happen to think that if more game creators took feelings like these to heart, video games would grow more quickly as an artistic medium.
I think the term "game" is holding things back: it makes outsiders assume that games are just for kids and for fun, and often game designers hold back certain artistic aspects of their games for the sake of making things fun (on the other hand, many movies are not fun to watch, but are still extremely fulfilling).
Also, a bunch of comments here try to counter the arguments of the families by pointing out that no one complains about games that take place in other real wars. First of all, that is not true. Second of all, that does nothing to lessen the validity of the families' opinions. Unless this game really shakes things up, and props to it if it does, the assumptions being made by the families are not out of line.
Video games may be the most versatile storytelling medium there is, but it is still developing. I have high hopes for it.
Go back to GameFAQS message boards. They miss you.
What the hell man. Stop being such a whiny bitch, just because they don't share your opinion doesn't mean it's automatically wrong. We shouldn't just let Konami do as they please without raising any questions - the result would be a horrible mess.
At the end of the day, Konami is looking to make money from a game about a current war, which evokes (quite rightly) strong emotions in many people - I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but they'll need to prove they can handle it with taste.
The issue is games don't get the same kind of freedom. Make a game about Iraq all you want. Just do the cowards route like Call of Duty 4 and name the place "Kalamalekistania" so that nobody gets offended.
It's not a matter of too soon or even trivializing the whole event. It's the perception that video games are still toys. Iraq War toys are available right now... FUCK I digress. Basically whether this game is good or sucks, they've already done one thing right. They've named the area correctly without pussyfooting around the issue, giving you a gentle elbow to the side, and saying "Look, it may LOOK like Iraq but we named this area Irack so it's alright to do this."
I mean what the fuck. We as gamers expect the industry to grow up and tackle tough subject matter but the only politicially related games we can make is "shoe dodging" flash games?
There is still alot of progress for video games to make on the artistic side. Take the idea of restarting or continuing a game. I think there was some discussion of the whole way Prince of Persia approached restarts as too easy. I think the other extreme would be a game that required you to start completely over when you lose or die; a concept that likely will not sell well or be very fun. But this is something that developers should be thinking hard about as part of the message they wish to convey for their product.
In addition, chronic, you are rewriting history if you think that Kumawar did not recieve any protest when it was released. I think America's Army is a more interesting point. Since it is created and endorsed by the Army then it must be ok?
In the end, Kondami is entitled to create their game and gold star families are more than entitled to their opinions. Both sides should probably do their homework. I personally think that Konami should be pulling the all-nighter if they want to try to do this correctly. I also think that posters here that call these families stupid for their comments are, at a minimum, being insensitive and have really lost sight (or never had it) of the bigger picture.