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More often than not, modern videogames aren't really about choices. Yeah, we've got branching storylines and local agency, but in pretty much every game there is always a "good" or "best" ending which players will, more often than not, strive for. It's typically possible to get everything you want in a game without ever sacrificing anything significant. We gain XP and we level up, but we're seldom forced to make narrative and gameplay decisions which permanently affect our characters for the rest of the game.

I was thinking about this the other day, which (as most things do) made me think about the concept of revenge. What if I tracked him down and planted child porn on his computer, then called the feds? What if I took a plane to her house and burned it down while she's out? I never would, of course, as I'd probably get caught, I'm not that evil, and my life would be permanently ruined, but one's mind does tend to linger on the subject of retribution.

These malicious, creepy thoughts of vengeance have probably passed through all our minds at some point or another (hopefully, anyway -- otherwise I look like a creepy asshole), and I thought it might be an interesting concept to create a videogame around. 

[Special thanks to our own Topher Cantler, who made the incredible Photoshop seen above] 

Hatred and Pride takes place in a totally realistic setting: modern day Los Angeles, shall we say. The game could be pretty much adapted to any genre, but we see very few games taking place in modern, everyday settings, so let's start with that first. Your character has a dayjob of the player's choosing, an ultimate goal in life, and one archenemy. 

The player must hate the archenemy, so the archenemy must not be immediately evident upon starting the game. Initially a friend, co-worker, or lover who ostensibly serves to help the player along in their ultimate life goal, the archenemy will eventually betray the player, intentionally or not, after a few hours play (at which point the player will hopefully not only care about the archenemy and the other characters, but also understand and be comfortable with the other mechanics of the game). A girlfriend cheats on the player and leaves him; a co-worker steals the player's idea and claims it as his own; a boss treats the player like dog crap and forces him to work unreasonable hours.

After the archenemy has betrayed the player, said archenemy no longer has any effect on the player's quest to achieve his life goal. If the player wants to become a famous artist but his girlfriend cheats on him, her betrayal only affects the player on a base emotional level; simply because he lost his girlfriend does not mean he can no longer paint, and she will never have any effect on the player's quest for this life goal. 

This is where the choice I talked about earlier comes into play. After the archenemy makes him or herself known, the player can handle every subsequent play turn (or mission, or whatever) one of two ways: the player can either devote himself to vengeance, or to the pursuance of his life goal. There is no way to finish the game having fully avenged your archenemy and achieved your life goal: the more you pursue one path, the more limited the other becomes. 

On the one hand, you can harrass your archenemy, destroy their property, blackmail them, ruin them, and (if you're extra vengeful) kill them, but there will always be a comparable negative consequence to each act of vengeance: you can break into the archenemy's professor's office and replace their great essay with a crappy one, but the time you take to do that will result in your missing an important work deadline or neglecting your current girlfriend or boyfriend. Similarly, going for ultimate vengeance and destroying your enemy, then murdering them, will get you sent to prison.

On the other hand, you can devote your life entirely to the pursuit of your own life goal, but you'll be simultaneously forced to watch your archenemy grow in fame, wealth, and happiness: for every jump you make in your own goal, the archenemy will make a similarly-sized jump in his or her own. Again, their ultimate goal does not conflict with yours in any way, but the player will likely find themselves insanely irritated when, after getting a huge promotion, their archenemy opens their own business and becomes a local success. 

Choose between a lust for vengeance and your own personal desire for success. Witness your own malicious capability for hatred and revenge, but suffer as your personal hopes and dreams go flying out the window; stay true to yourself and stay your own course in life, but feel the niggling irritation of having someone you despise feel a similar success and happiness. Or, try to go halfway down each path and damage your archenemy's reputation without totally destroying it, while achieving a so-so career without achieving true excellence.

The game is about choice, and understanding your own capacity for hate. The more I think about it, the more I think it might actually work as a sort of tabletop game not unlike One Can Have Her, but I'd much rather see this idea fleshed out as a true, virtual, assumedly independent videogame. Or as a mechanic in a larger title.








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18 comments | showing # 1 to 18
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Cheeburga's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 12:56
Cheeburga
That's a fantastic idea.
I honestly think that this should be made into a game, if not a smaller Flash game, or something.
This is really, really good.
:]]]
Mr Wilson's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:01
Mr Wilson
For some reason this post reminded me of that bullshit lion move The Ghost and the Darkness...weird
Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:04
Neonie
It sounds like a good concept. But so many players would just kill their archenemy the first chance they got then spend the rst of the game on the run from the cops.
eternalplayer2345's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:08
eternalplayer2345
i like the idea but the good path really doesnt seem all that compelling to me, i mean if you want to be good you are stuck painting pictures. when i read about game changing decision i immediatly thought of a cop, that way if you want to be good you can spend your days busting criminals in chase scenes and what not. but if you choose to exact revenge you already have the know how of a cop to start plotting.
Anthony Burch's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:10
Anthony Burch
Neonie:
Ideally, the missions would be structured so that you couldn't kill the guy right off the bat -- you've gotta work your way up to it, just like you have to work your way up the corporate or social ladder in the other gameplay path.

eternalplayer2345:
That actually sounds kinda interesting.
dadudebob's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:11
dadudebob
sounds like fun
TailsCorra's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:30
TailsCorra
This sounds like an interesting concept. It would be difficult to integrate the mechanic into a larger title for the pay-off for each path would likely only have one conclusive pay-off anyway (trying to destroy your arch enemy is something that would either have to benefit you in some other way other than just the raw delivery of vengeance).

If the game were built solely around this mechanic, I think there should be a lot more risk involved in the path of vengeance, being that failure to perform the needed task could not only result in wasted efforts (and still at the loss of your personal goal), but also the risk of being found out and either costing you a great deal (financially or personally) to repent for your act and still be able to continue, but stopping short of an out-right game over.

The true difficulty however is how to make your arch enemy effect the player. It would be difficult to find a universal way to give the player the emotional drive to feel the neccisary vengance for their foe without the idea of that character's goals being in direct effect against the player's own success (save for the above failure mechanic).

I think finding a good enough writer would be the ultimate challenge to make this work, but there have indeed been some notable efforts made so perhaps making this idea work wouldn't be so far fetched after all. Ironically, I think the best way for this to work is to have this mechanic not forcast at all (but likely mentioned on in many retrospectives to come after).
Excel-2011's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:32
Excel-2011
I don't what to think regarding the premise, but I would sure be interested if I saw that shop as boxart.
Brian Szabelski's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:34
Brian Szabelski
@eternal: Well, True Crime tried a similar tactic, but it's never worked out well. So while it might not be gorund-breakingly original, with the right mechanics, it could finally be done in a way that doesn't suck.
Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:51
Topher Cantler
This is my favorite FGF idea ever. Also, I have a high-res version of that shoop for a change, if anybody wants it for some reason, just email me.
9to5's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 13:59
9to5
'a totally realistic setting: modern day Los Angeles'
lolz, speaking as an Englishman who has visited I can say it's about the most unreal place I've ever been!

And I agree that the shop is great, props to Topher.
Anthony Burch's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 14:01
Anthony Burch
Keep in mind that the knife, the girl's untouched photo, and the paintbrush all came from three TOTALLY separate pictures.
Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 14:23
Topher Cantler
It's true:

Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 14:37
Eschatos
Come on, do you really think I couldn't murder someone and become a living god in the same day? (Yes, that is my lifelong ambition.)
cynicalllama's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 14:46
cynicalllama
This is a most excellent idea. I can see shades of Dexter being thrown in here. i.e. what if your life goal was to be a mass murderer but the ex that scorned you was the one victim you couldn't just take on a whim? It would make you have to wait for the potential payoff while also not being compromised in the process. Man too bad it's far to original to ever stand a chance IRL.
Goei's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 16:35
Goei
Ingenious, I love it!
Bob Muir's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/21/2007 18:12
Bob Muir
Wow. Rev, are you considering going into game design? We need more creativity like this, and I'm getting tired of the same old "save the world/princess/US" storylines.
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