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Factor 5 absolves itself over Lair being a big pile of wank photo

To say that Lair has not received the warmest of welcomes by reviewers is to perhaps put things a tad mildly. A long time in development and the usual make-or-break hype has not done enough to stop people panning Factor 5's big PS3 expedition. Well, people who aren't obsessive Sony fans, of course. Unlike said fans, Factor 5 can at least admit when something sucks, but it seems the developer won't admit its own hand in that suckage.

"That is exactly the kick of creating a first-year game: exploring the not-yet-finished hardware and growing the technology while the hardware is coming together," claimed director Julian Eggebrecht when talking to MTV's GameFile. "I think both Rogue Leader and Lair gave a good stab at poking into the depths of the systems for such early titles, and from that you have a second-generation growth opportunity that surpasses most developers that jump onto the bandwagon later."

Shrugging and practically saying "at least we tried" seems to be the order of the day for Lair, but Eggebrecht was keen to make sure that Factor 5 was as blameless as possible for Lair's less than stellar reviews. In a move that would be hilarious if it wasn't rather pitiful, Eggebrecht claimed that the controls were far too 'casual' for those big, mean hardcore game reviewers who apparently hated Lair because they despise anything with motion control.

"The Sixaxis motion control itself feels a lot more organic and free-form than the rigid controls of other flight games and does much better for casual players, as we saw in focus tests. It does seem to alienate some reviewers who are at the top of the hard-core crowd and seem to have a passionate hate for all things motion." I'm not even commenting on that. Such stupidity speaks for itself. 

[Thanks, TheGoldenDonut] 


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68 comments | showing # 1 to 50

B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:35
B-Radicate
Wow. "Sorry, guys, but it's not OUR fault our game sucks. The hardcore crowd CLEARLY relies too heavily on quality in their titles."

Casual gamers apparently equals stoopid fanboys.

What asses. They can't even make this up to me if their next game is a Rogue Squadron title.
TorpedoTed's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:36
TorpedoTed
That will teach em to leave nintendo and bash em as they went!!
hahahaha
A shit game for the least selling console, its all they deserve!
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:37
B-Radicate
The only thing that could make this any better would be if they also touted the ability of the Blu-Rays as being superior to everything known to man all in the same steaming pile of PR bullshit.

Ok, now I'm done with this.
JACK of No Trades's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:40
JACK of No Trades
My feelings would be hurt.
AngelsDontBurn's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:41
AngelsDontBurn
It's absolutely appalling. The controls for this game are so hideous! I have no idea why they would even try to release the game with controls like that! I mean, it hardly makes any sense at all.
blehman's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:42
blehman
"The Sixaxis motion control itself feels a lot more organic and free-form than the rigid controls of other flight games and does much better for casual players, as we saw in focus tests. It does seem to alienate some reviewers who are at the top of the hard-core crowd and seem to have a passionate hate for all things motion."


Hand, face(slap). Face, hand(slap).
Snaileb 's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:44
Snaileb
Big pile of wank indeed.

Well, the fact that the motion controls suck, is probably a big deal with the reviewers, but I dont think reviewers hate everything motion controlled.
BlackDove's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:45
BlackDove
Way to go defending your shitty game. Blame others. That'll solve the problem.
hollywooda's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:45
hollywooda
The PS3 is gonna end up with more Turkeys than Bernard Matthews!....
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:46
Joe Burling
I haven't played it but the reviews for it are consistently horrible. Heavenly Sword is following in similar footsteps (but not as bad). This was supposed to be that time when games came out that made us want to buy a PS3. Guess we are going to have to wait a little bit longer...
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:47
brainderailment
They tried and failed, lets only hope that the can learn from their mistakes and actually make a good game later.
bloodylip's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:53
bloodylip
Rogue Leader was a pretty good first-gen game for Gamecube. Rebel Strike was a horrible POS, and I've yet to receive an apology from Eggebrecht for it.
DrXym's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:54
DrXym
Julian we hear you, the sixaxis controls are wonderful. Faultless. So now when's the patch coming that gives the user the choice to use them or more conventional controls?
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:56
Tubatic
Sad, because Rogue Leader was good. It controlled right (in its own non simulations way) and did all the right things. Its fantastically lamentful that Factor 5, after having decent success with the Rogue Squadron series, has gone to great lengths to practically disavow and down play any good work they did.

I don't have a source, but Factor 5 was one of the first to lambast (bamlast?) the Wii for being the mage to Xbox's and PS3's warriors in regards to graphical and processing STR. And now, seeing that everyone isn't bedazzled by shiny dragons, they're coping out and saying "Well, its first year, what do you expect?" Come on. Its just a matter of where they put their resources, imo. And they opted for gloss over gameplay.

I say again: I called it.

(I'll temper this by outing myself as a Star Wars/Rogue Squadron fanboy . . . but I still called it)
hexfix93's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:59
hexfix93
it could be saved! all they have t do is make the analog sticks control the beast, and the r2 and l2 for speed control. this would solve all the issues. i too hate the six axis controls. oh, and give us a radar!

that would make the game GREAT! because that is all i find wrong with it. oh yeah and let us choose what we want to lock on to with a corsair ..

this should of been common sense for those dudes.. i bought it, and fee; stupid for buying, if they patch it with better controls i will keep it.. if not. i'm selling it..
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 08:59
Tubatic
@bloodylip

Heh yeah, the ground stuff in Rebel Strike was pretty garbage. Soon as I saw Lair's ground troops, I knew they hadn't learned nothin :D They survived on the back of that big license, which was the main reason I slogged through that game, and loved it like candy.
hexix's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:00
hexix
The last EGM podcast had an interview with Julian about the poor review score they gave Lair. Julian pretty much went with the "it's for casual gamers, so you can't possibly understand" line. Hilarious to think that Lair was developed for casual gamers.

One thing I will give them though, is that they made it pretty clear that the cost in developing Lair was really a hit they were taking to develop technology that they could use for all future games. So it that line about being ahead of the curve for a 2nd generation game does make a lot of sense.

I haven't tried Lair yet myself, but I just signed up for Gamefly and it's the first on my list. I'm really curious to see if I'll agree with all the reviews or think they're completely wrong.
rabidkeebler's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:02
rabidkeebler
I don't know, but I have some real big questions over the sixaxis motion control. It still feals tacked on, and this game isn't helping that feeling. (ie. since it is tacked on it doesn't work properly, thus any implementation will not end well...)

Blaiming it on the reviewers is well...sad. Does that mean non-hardcore players can handle Lair?
aka Bitter's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:03
aka Bitter
Why couldn't they have just put in an analog control option? Motion control could have still been the default.
Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:06
Neonie
I'm not even going to comment on this. I'm just going to sit back, smile, and watch Sony's demise which brings me quite a lot of joy.
crizz's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:09
crizz
Hey SONY, how about ditching the motion control concept altogether and concentrate on a controller that has all you need to play any game? Eight buttons and two analog sticks. It worked so well for the PS2. Stop jumping on other system's gimmicks! Not every damn game has to have motion control does it?
Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:11
Professor Pew
If their focus tests also showed that turning your dragon was sufficiently handled in Lair, I think they need new focus testers :P

And didn't Gears of War and Vegas do precisely the same but just better? Also running a new engine on new hardware, but then playable.
rabidkeebler's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:19
rabidkeebler
I own a PS3, but I also own a Wii (the quintessential casual game console). So I don't see how the "casual gamer" remark holds much water. Honestly I think that if the controls are as you say they are, the reviews would be more mixed (instead of being all negative except for PLAY)
hollywooda's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:20
hollywooda
@Action Bastard:- Yes to all of the above....
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:21
Tubatic
@action Bastard

If finding my own better opinion of Lair means I'd have to pay too much for a console that will play about 3 games I know I'd be interested in, then yep. I like getting other people's opinions just fine, thanks.

I get you though. I thought Way of the Samurai 1 and 2 were damn awesome, but they got 6's and 5's everywhere. Don't ruin my personal enjoyment, but it calls the rating system of all those sites into question.

Of course, I like samurais like that. meh.
Artadius's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:24
Artadius
@hollywooda, care to change your avatar? Some of us enjoy browsing Destructoid at work safely. While it's not blatant pornography, it's close enough to bring the wrath from those that would if they could.
RestingSound's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:39
RestingSound
Very similar to rogue squadrons terrible ground implementation. And why the fuck does running your dragon through a crowd of soldiers not hurt them unless you pres the attack button.. Its a freaking dragon.
Holzmiento's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:45
Holzmiento
At the end of the day it is still a flying dragon game, and that is a huge problem.
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:47
Mxyzptlk
Hey everyone! Would you like to play a game? It's called "damage control"!
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:49
Joe Burling
Action Bastard, the reviews are pretty consistent.

I know what you are thinking: that people may be underestimating it just because it's a PS3 title. Is it possibly you are overestimating it because it's a PS3 title? There are very few games that I enjoyed which got that many low scores. I'd probably GameFly it after all the hype it's received but there are about 20 other games I want to check out first.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:49
B-Radicate
F' Artadius. That avatar is FANTASTIC!
Nick Chester's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:50
Nick Chester
I started playing this last night. It's really pretty, but so far, kind of -- what's the word -- dull. It doesn't help matters that controlling the dragon is painful.

I'm going to stick with it, though. It could have potential.
Artadius's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:50
Artadius
@Action Bastard
Like you NEVER take a break at work...whether its to smoke, chat with a co-worker about a game or sports or something else during the eight hour work day. Why don't you try being holier than thou somewhere else?
zardoz's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:51
zardoz
Everything about Lair is depressingly old and tired, I own all three consoles but I have to be careful every time I switch the PS3 on, I might slash my wrists, it's just so fucking old, the PS3 is the equivalant of giving a corpse a makeover, and Lair completely fits in to the whole PS3 "old crap in nice wrapping paper" ethos.

Lair was a boring concept to begin with, it's like it was designed and imagined by a 14 year old boy with no friends, but a rich mummy and daddy who tell him he's the best.

Factor 5 have always been overrated, from their Nintendo days right up to now.
Morrius's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 09:52
Morrius
Oh no, another shitty ps3 game! Just release something worth buying so I can convince myself to buy a ps3!
KilgoreTrout XL's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:00
KilgoreTrout XL
@Buckfitches: holy shit, that animation in your sig is fucked up.

I haven't played any PS3 game, ever, so I can't comment. I do bet that, just like every other PS3 game I've seen on a kiosk, Lair's graphics are slick as hell.
hexfix93's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:08
hexfix93
yeah i was like 9 out of 10 on the first 4 levels, then i got to level 6 and 7. HOLY #@$#... this is where the controls fall apart and the game just becomes a big pile of $%@%@..

trust me. let me know when you get there. when you have to dodge the spot lights in the caverns is where it starts to fall apart big time. oh its burtal.
Bans's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:12
Bans
So the 1st year a system comes out disregard the system till better games come out? Also wasn't the PS3 specifically targeted for hard-core gamers? Nintendo comes around and fucks up the whole program for everyone. lawl. So PS3, high price, lack luster games and empty promises how the next generation of games to come out because it'll be better. Here's a idea for your PS4 (I'm sure they'll try). Develop the console then hand it off to developers for a year, then release it the following year so there is a year buffer of experimentation not these Full-sail project(s) they call video games. They are nothing more than eye-candy that does little more than leave you with chinese food syndrome. I love you sony, please get your act together.. Better yet, just gag them all.

As for factor 5, thanks for pointing out that "Casual gamers are too stupid to realize that the controls suck as compared to hard-core gamers that you know.. actually care about stuff like that?"
robotplague's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:19
robotplague
As Hexix mentioned above...

The last EGM podcast had a fairly lengthy interview with one of the guys from Factor 5 (president I believe). The guy didn't admit any fault, but pretty much said if you don't like the game then you're playing it wrong. Listening to it was actually pretty frustrating and made me even LESS interested in the title.

It's pretty funny to listen to someone passionately talk about how great their game is when their average review score is 61%.
Zanch's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:24
Zanch
@ Action Bastard

Having played the game, I can say with certainty that the reviews are spot on. However, even if the controls were fluid and responsive, which they are clearly not, the targetting system is the bigger issue for me. Not being able to choose what you target is bullshit and it makes the already repetitive tasks and dull goals even more painful. I gave it about 2 hours before I decided to just drink myself into a stupor instead. The hangover I woke up with the next morning was still not as bad as the pain that Lair caused me.
ExceptionOE's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:28
ExceptionOE
Sony defence force, DEPLOY!
masterledz's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:53
masterledz
@ Mxy

I hear that game is really popular among Sony's third-party developers.
DeusPayne's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:55
DeusPayne
Yes, the reviewers are the problem. They clearly don't know what a good game is when it lands in their lap.
JonDarkwood's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:55
JonDarkwood
I guess what they're saying is, casual gamers haven't played enough good games to know that the controls are appparently shit.
JonDarkwood's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:57
JonDarkwood
I can't blame him for trying to defend his people, though. I'd be depressed as hell over how bad this turned out, if I had worked on this game.
JonDarkwood's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 10:57
JonDarkwood
I can't blame him for trying to defend his people, though. I'd be depressed as hell over how bad this turned out, if I had worked on this game.
hexix's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 11:02
hexix
@Action Bastard:
Games are a bit different from movies. If reviews are saying the controls are broken or the framerate is crap, then that's a bit different than not connecting with a story or not liking a particular actor.

Like I said earlier, I still need to play the game and form my own opinion. However, when reviews are dissing Lair for gameplay mechanics and framerate problems, it does get hard to imagine how they could be wrong.

Of course, it does seem strange how well a game like GTA was scored when I think the game is fundamentally broken when it comes to controls and graphics. So I guess it is still possible that Lair really is a great game and people are being too hard on it.
bipolar beers's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 11:08
bipolar beers
had they incorporated an option to use the six axis or to not use it the way warhawk does i think lair would have been recieved a bit more openly.
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 11:17
Joe Burling
Action, but even shitty movies get good reviews by some people. Lair consistently gets bad reviews. I think it's safe to say that it's not a good game, even if you do like it.
Artadius's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/05/2007 11:19
Artadius
@Action Bastard:
I didn't demand he change it, I simply asked if would care to. I don't demand people do things which it is not my place to. I'm willing to bet Destructoid gets a fair amount of readership from folks who browse during free time at work... and probably the same people appreciate the fact that at least the editors do take the time to put NSFW tags on posts when there is that sort of content therein. I don't have a problem with the imagery... its simply a convenience thing. Sorry if I pissed in your cheerios. I won't go off topic any longer on this... but if you'd like to speak more about it...feel free to PM me.
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