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i think the problem is to many companies are trying to make that next big block buster that will generate the sales they feel they deserve. when instead they should be working on smaller projects that they can afford and will generate money anyway.
not everyone likes the over the top production values that rival movies. just make better games. not bigger games.
not everyone likes the over the top production values that rival movies. just make better games. not bigger games.
A few less (few fewer?) Triple A games each year won't be any sweat off my back. Especially since it'll mean a lot more smaller games with the opportunity to take more interesting risks and gameplay choices.
“What do we watch more of these days?”
We watch more utter shite, I really don’t want gaming to go the way of television or film.
We watch more utter shite, I really don’t want gaming to go the way of television or film.
Hes a dummy, plain and simple
when you sensationalize, generalize you can make anything seem like the end of the world..........
I will say it over and over, if a team like gust which is no more than 10 devs can make 5 ps3 games this gen, then things arent so broken
when you sensationalize, generalize you can make anything seem like the end of the world..........
I will say it over and over, if a team like gust which is no more than 10 devs can make 5 ps3 games this gen, then things arent so broken
And the publishers/console makers would only have themselves to blame. They wanted the mainstream market so badly, and when they finally busted through that glass ceiling maybe they should have thought about the fickleness of that market as opposed to betting the house on them.
Oh, and let's apply a little Occams Razor here. Games are expensive because publishers are spending more money on them. Maybe if publishers weren't so obsessed with turning every game into a blockbuster, they wouldn't feel the need to spend obscene amounts of money making them.
All I'm saying is I hope that basket is strong enough to hold all those eggs.
Oh, and let's apply a little Occams Razor here. Games are expensive because publishers are spending more money on them. Maybe if publishers weren't so obsessed with turning every game into a blockbuster, they wouldn't feel the need to spend obscene amounts of money making them.
All I'm saying is I hope that basket is strong enough to hold all those eggs.
mad props for spaced. Hell of a show. Better than anything my home country (germany) has ever produced. Rewatch!
Beware what you wish for.....if the traditional gaming business goes away....so do most of the hardcore games in a flood of crappy iOS and tablet games meant to appeal to 4 yr olds and Soccer Moms.
Granted I love indie games and small developers but they are no replacement for the AAA mega titles that are tentpoles for the consoles.
Small developers all eventually evolve into larger developers as they succeed (Look at every big company today...EA, Blizzard, Activision, BUNGIE, UBISOFT....all started out as small developers)
So how is the model broken?
Granted I love indie games and small developers but they are no replacement for the AAA mega titles that are tentpoles for the consoles.
Small developers all eventually evolve into larger developers as they succeed (Look at every big company today...EA, Blizzard, Activision, BUNGIE, UBISOFT....all started out as small developers)
So how is the model broken?
Meh. Too much money sunk into creatively bankrupt, me too efforts like the last Medal of Honor and SWTOR. Oh wait, those are EA games. Hmmmmmm.
Again with the mobile/social schtick. Because yes, with the advent of youtube, movie theaters emptied because people would rather watch the numa numa guy instead of The Avengers. Yes, consoles have lost some of the casual market to iphone games because its a device they already have and the games are only a buck. But these are the same people that bought a wii because of wii bowling, and didn't buy anything else. Mobile games cannot overtake the console market because they are two seperate markets with two different userbases now that phones can play games. Console manufacturers like sony and nintendo already realize its about the software on the hardware, not the hardware itself. These people need to shut their yaps because they obviously have no sense of context and are only doing this for hits or to toot their own horn about moving to the casual/mobile market. Enough is enough. When we get experiences like MGS4, uncharted 3, and battlefield 3 on mobile devices, then we can all be nervous about consoles losing market share.
TV is WAY better than film these days. If small games can go the way of tv, I'm all for it. I would much rather have a bunch of 'Breaking Bad' quality games rather than one big 'Battleship' quality game.
I may be only a QA dummy, but what I've started to find, everyone is really getting fucking sick of working in this insanely ridiculous industry. Industry vets of 5-10 years are trying to GTFO, and work on mobile games or apps.
Why? Your team is smaller, you don't have to give up 6 months of your life for pointless deadlines that get missed anyways because everyone is exhausted and just wants to go home. You're going to be paid more, for less work. The environment is way more relaxed when you aren't cramming 200+ people into two floors of an office building.
Me personally, love where I'm working now. And it's because I'm not working on games anymore. If I decided to go back into it, it'll be mobile games. Fuck working on console games. You'll have no life, no matter what your job is on the project. Especially if it's an open world game.
I hope to fucking god every dev bails for mobile and apps. Shit needs changing.
Why? Your team is smaller, you don't have to give up 6 months of your life for pointless deadlines that get missed anyways because everyone is exhausted and just wants to go home. You're going to be paid more, for less work. The environment is way more relaxed when you aren't cramming 200+ people into two floors of an office building.
Me personally, love where I'm working now. And it's because I'm not working on games anymore. If I decided to go back into it, it'll be mobile games. Fuck working on console games. You'll have no life, no matter what your job is on the project. Especially if it's an open world game.
I hope to fucking god every dev bails for mobile and apps. Shit needs changing.
I think he is right what with game design budgets reaching absurd heights with forced online integration & pay DLC on nearly every product.
However "social gaming" can go suck off a rivet gun if it means more farmville-esque garbage.
Just go back to smaller budget higher concept games please. Less big expensive man-shoots and CINEMA ACTION GAME MOVIE SEQUEL.
However "social gaming" can go suck off a rivet gun if it means more farmville-esque garbage.
Just go back to smaller budget higher concept games please. Less big expensive man-shoots and CINEMA ACTION GAME MOVIE SEQUEL.
Traditional Consoles: Generic gritty realistic games about angry bald men shooting and stabbing people in environments that are browner than the contents of a septic tank. All of these are either hyper linear or so open that they look like they where made with random terrain generator. Motion controlled minigame collections. Indy puzzle games/non games that all involve a little character with a big head wondering around some kind of empty ruined civilization either getting stuck on puzzles or just doing nothing. Tower defense games, so many tower defense games. 50% of console games are about zombies.
Mobile Devices/Social Network Websites: Atari 2600 games with generic flash graphics that rely entirely on either a physics engine, some kind of randomization element or grinding & micro-transactions. Click and share games where there is no gameplay, only the presence of grinding & micro transactions. Generic multiplayer only shooters/RPGs that revolve around grinding & paying micro-transactions. Tower defense games, so many tower defense games. 50% of mobile/social games are about zombies.
Mobile Devices/Social Network Websites: Atari 2600 games with generic flash graphics that rely entirely on either a physics engine, some kind of randomization element or grinding & micro-transactions. Click and share games where there is no gameplay, only the presence of grinding & micro transactions. Generic multiplayer only shooters/RPGs that revolve around grinding & paying micro-transactions. Tower defense games, so many tower defense games. 50% of mobile/social games are about zombies.
BEST EPISODE OF SPACED EVER. Tim gets high after playing Resident Evil 2 for hours on end and starts to see everyone as zombies. Also this is the episode that inspired Simon and Edgar to do Shaun of the Dead.
drawsomethign lost over 4 million users last time I checked.... 'fasting growing' game to fastest dying...
I don't really know the answer... I DO know that I don't want every game to be a free to play, pay to win, seasons pass subscription service that requires constant online for everything....
I've owned at least 2 consoles per generation, since the advent of gaming.... I think there are a few things that NEED to happen
1. Price Point. All games are NOT created equal, thusly should not be priced the same
2. Cross Platform - MAKE IT HAPPEN... Many of us are dual consol owners... when a game comes out, it fragments us... I returned Battlefield, because my other friend had it on 360, and I had it on PS3... got boring playing without someone, so I traded it in... I'd be more inclined to buy DLC and continue to support a game if I didn't have to 'pick sides'
3. BRING BACK SPLIT SCREEN CO-OP. Halo 1, Prisoner, Rockets. OR System Link, Blood Gultch, CTF... NUFF SAID. Hell, Goldeneye. double nuff said.
4. Stop nickle and diming. I don't have a pc. but I was desperate to play the witcher. So I happily bought it (great game) for the 360... they added fixes and content... and instead of fucking over there initial support base of fans, they GAVE them the best version of the game FOR FREE... THIS. THIS is how you show you both care about your users, AND belive in your product. I will now buy the Witcher 1 (when i get a PC) and any other game that CD Project Red puts out on a console (or pc if I have) because they deserve it.
5. VALVE. Admit that they don't always do it 'right' but only care (or at least act like they do) about there customers...
I mean, there's a lot of other issues... I'd say stop wasting money on god awful marketing campaigns, calm down on the press for graphics, and pull back on redundancies in operational budgets... when a car company loses money, they don't fire 1 exec, they fire 50 joe schmoes who make up the same salary... EA fucks up like a boss, they cut bottom line and lower level stiffs just trying to get by... meh.. I'm rambling, but I think there is NO correct answer, just many things both the industry, and US as consumers could do differently...
I don't really know the answer... I DO know that I don't want every game to be a free to play, pay to win, seasons pass subscription service that requires constant online for everything....
I've owned at least 2 consoles per generation, since the advent of gaming.... I think there are a few things that NEED to happen
1. Price Point. All games are NOT created equal, thusly should not be priced the same
2. Cross Platform - MAKE IT HAPPEN... Many of us are dual consol owners... when a game comes out, it fragments us... I returned Battlefield, because my other friend had it on 360, and I had it on PS3... got boring playing without someone, so I traded it in... I'd be more inclined to buy DLC and continue to support a game if I didn't have to 'pick sides'
3. BRING BACK SPLIT SCREEN CO-OP. Halo 1, Prisoner, Rockets. OR System Link, Blood Gultch, CTF... NUFF SAID. Hell, Goldeneye. double nuff said.
4. Stop nickle and diming. I don't have a pc. but I was desperate to play the witcher. So I happily bought it (great game) for the 360... they added fixes and content... and instead of fucking over there initial support base of fans, they GAVE them the best version of the game FOR FREE... THIS. THIS is how you show you both care about your users, AND belive in your product. I will now buy the Witcher 1 (when i get a PC) and any other game that CD Project Red puts out on a console (or pc if I have) because they deserve it.
5. VALVE. Admit that they don't always do it 'right' but only care (or at least act like they do) about there customers...
I mean, there's a lot of other issues... I'd say stop wasting money on god awful marketing campaigns, calm down on the press for graphics, and pull back on redundancies in operational budgets... when a car company loses money, they don't fire 1 exec, they fire 50 joe schmoes who make up the same salary... EA fucks up like a boss, they cut bottom line and lower level stiffs just trying to get by... meh.. I'm rambling, but I think there is NO correct answer, just many things both the industry, and US as consumers could do differently...
@Advancedcaveman
50% are zombie games.....really?
I mean I could interject and object almost anywhere in your entire comment but I think this says enough.
On Topic, while I agree the money pumped into marketing/making games these days is ridiculous. I feel it has less to do with console gaming and more to do with unrealistic goals (battlefield anyone?), bad budget setting, greedy dev/publishers. And lets not forget that like in any market you will have crappy (selling) products.
Publishers and dev's created this situation, they can just as well take us out of it. If they can keep their eyes of dollar signs for more then a few seconds.
50% are zombie games.....really?
I mean I could interject and object almost anywhere in your entire comment but I think this says enough.
On Topic, while I agree the money pumped into marketing/making games these days is ridiculous. I feel it has less to do with console gaming and more to do with unrealistic goals (battlefield anyone?), bad budget setting, greedy dev/publishers. And lets not forget that like in any market you will have crappy (selling) products.
Publishers and dev's created this situation, they can just as well take us out of it. If they can keep their eyes of dollar signs for more then a few seconds.
A great many AAA console game makes more money than most movies. I don't understand how choice automatically means the standard bearer is doomed. If that were the case, netflix would eliminate the need for anyone to own a dvd or bluray player, an idea that is simply untrue.
As long as people born c. 1970-1995 are alive, have money, and willing to buy games, console and pc gaming ain't gonna die anytime soon.
Fot people who play pc, ps3, and xbox games, angry birds and other mobile games are the kind of shit you play while taking a shit. It is what we play when waiting in a line with our gf to watch fucking twilight, all in the name of getting laid. It's what you have your nieces and nephews play so you can watch tv while babysitting them.
Traditional gaming is here to stay.
Fot people who play pc, ps3, and xbox games, angry birds and other mobile games are the kind of shit you play while taking a shit. It is what we play when waiting in a line with our gf to watch fucking twilight, all in the name of getting laid. It's what you have your nieces and nephews play so you can watch tv while babysitting them.
Traditional gaming is here to stay.
What the hell was the comparison to movies and tv supposed to imply? Are we watching more tv because making movies is a riskier investment for the content creators? Are we watching more movies because tv programmers have not updated their business model with the times? This comparison makes no sense. Someone please explain.
I think it's all a matter of perspective.
From our perspective, the modern console gaming experience will go nowhere. There won't be a crash of apocalyptic proportions, the streets won't run red with blood of Lord Hirai, there will be no Morgan Freeman narrated documentary on what went so devastatingly wrong.
And we're right.
However, from their perspective things would be a fucking disaster. They've spent the last x number of years doing things a certain way and making a lot of money doing so. To change course now probably seems inconceivable to them, the fact that they may even be principally to blame for the problems they pine on about probably lies well beyond their comprehension.
When we see the mobile/alternative scene making a ton of money, we see gamers shooting birds at pigs while shooting dooks at toilets. When they see the same, they see dollar signs that they aren't dancing in, and their own rising costs. To see the alt scene growing without them, or their own business models tightening around their throats regardless if they're completely to blame for it, is to see the fucking horsemen on the horizon.
Thing is, we're right. They've just got their realities all twisted up.
From our perspective, the modern console gaming experience will go nowhere. There won't be a crash of apocalyptic proportions, the streets won't run red with blood of Lord Hirai, there will be no Morgan Freeman narrated documentary on what went so devastatingly wrong.
And we're right.
However, from their perspective things would be a fucking disaster. They've spent the last x number of years doing things a certain way and making a lot of money doing so. To change course now probably seems inconceivable to them, the fact that they may even be principally to blame for the problems they pine on about probably lies well beyond their comprehension.
When we see the mobile/alternative scene making a ton of money, we see gamers shooting birds at pigs while shooting dooks at toilets. When they see the same, they see dollar signs that they aren't dancing in, and their own rising costs. To see the alt scene growing without them, or their own business models tightening around their throats regardless if they're completely to blame for it, is to see the fucking horsemen on the horizon.
Thing is, we're right. They've just got their realities all twisted up.
Now I kinda want console gaming to crash and burn so we get a Morgan Freeman narrated documentary about it. That would rock.
"But look at film versus TV. What do we watch more of these days?"
Assuming he's comparing mobile/social to TV and traditional games to films, well, that doesn't really spell doom for traditional. Unless he's implying films are dead because people watch more TV.
Assuming he's comparing mobile/social to TV and traditional games to films, well, that doesn't really spell doom for traditional. Unless he's implying films are dead because people watch more TV.
@Tristrix: HAHA. I laughed so hard I shit myself. Now excuse me gonna go finish up on the old Sir Harrington while playing Angry Birds Space.
Oh noes! Their shitty business model is under pressure. They will be forced out of their comfort zone.
Social and shitty mobile games will NEVER replace console gaming, hell they can't replace portable gaming in the vein of a DS or a PSP.
Can't say I completely disagree with this. I think a major problem here is that you either come out with a $50-$60 retail product that cost $20+ million to make (before marketing, ie: BF3), or you come out with a $10-$20 digital product and put it on XBLA/PSN. There is no middle ground. I wouldn't be against a $40 action game that didn't sink shit loads of money into fully featured online modes, full motion capture, voice acting, and cutting edge tech. There's a market for that middle ground.
Yes, social and mobile games are big, but it's a separate market. Most people don't sit down to play iOS games. They play them to kill time. It's just the fact of the matter. We can tie the AAA games into mobile/social gaming, but the latter will never put Blizzard out of business any more than Two and a Half Men left Martin Scorsese without a job.
Oh, and all the anti-consumer bullshit isn't helping. Stop trying to fight used games and piracy and start trying to make better games. Just a thought.
Yes, social and mobile games are big, but it's a separate market. Most people don't sit down to play iOS games. They play them to kill time. It's just the fact of the matter. We can tie the AAA games into mobile/social gaming, but the latter will never put Blizzard out of business any more than Two and a Half Men left Martin Scorsese without a job.
Oh, and all the anti-consumer bullshit isn't helping. Stop trying to fight used games and piracy and start trying to make better games. Just a thought.
Well the entire industry can shift to social and mobile gaming, that's cool. Except I won't be there waiting for them. I love games and have loved them since the mid-80s, but I have never played a FB game (far as I can tell they're little more than ads anyway) plus I hate being on FB to begin with and would never log in if it weren't for family.
Mobile games are only slightly better. I loved Plants vs Zombies, hated Angry Birds, and the only other quality games I've played were ports like FFT. It's too much like the Wii. I don't want to spend hours digging through crap to find one piece of moderately entertaining software. Of the games I've somewhat enjoyed, I wouldn't play any of them again and only PvZ would get a sequel bought from me.
So yeah, gaming can move in that direction and I'm sure there's plenty of money in it. But I don't have the slightest interest in that. I don't need yet more ways to be bugged by friends tweeting their accomplishments or getting game requests so they can unlock crap. Maybe I'm just too old for where gaming is headed.
Mobile games are only slightly better. I loved Plants vs Zombies, hated Angry Birds, and the only other quality games I've played were ports like FFT. It's too much like the Wii. I don't want to spend hours digging through crap to find one piece of moderately entertaining software. Of the games I've somewhat enjoyed, I wouldn't play any of them again and only PvZ would get a sequel bought from me.
So yeah, gaming can move in that direction and I'm sure there's plenty of money in it. But I don't have the slightest interest in that. I don't need yet more ways to be bugged by friends tweeting their accomplishments or getting game requests so they can unlock crap. Maybe I'm just too old for where gaming is headed.
Sorry, but no. Most of the games I play "seriously" on my iPhone are console experiences that happened to be ported to it. Everything else is a fun distraction for momentary waits. However, just in case...*stocks up on CRPGs and JRPGs for the future gaming apocalypse*
@OneRed
Yeah, this was just like the music industry back in early 2000s. They didn't want to adapt and then it finally dawned on them that they had to if they wanted to survive. They are still a horrible industry, and still try to grasp at anything to keep the old business models alive.
So, it doesn't surprise me that you say they don't want to change their models, nor do they want to accept blame for their practices.
I really don't like the appeal of mobile games though. I see nothing wrong with indie titles that have some meat on them, though.
Yeah, this was just like the music industry back in early 2000s. They didn't want to adapt and then it finally dawned on them that they had to if they wanted to survive. They are still a horrible industry, and still try to grasp at anything to keep the old business models alive.
So, it doesn't surprise me that you say they don't want to change their models, nor do they want to accept blame for their practices.
I really don't like the appeal of mobile games though. I see nothing wrong with indie titles that have some meat on them, though.
if they didn't waste these game engines once they have finished them, there wouldn't be so much cost involved.
when you have such work put into a grand game like mass effect 2, these assets are abandoned once the main story is finished. for players who enjoyed this game, additional development can be done to create further content using these assets. I think this is where DLC comes in, but I feel they don't do enough with it. fallout 3 actually is the best example of reusing assets well. I bought all the expansions for fallout 3 and they were totally worth it. they were incredible value for money.
when you have such work put into a grand game like mass effect 2, these assets are abandoned once the main story is finished. for players who enjoyed this game, additional development can be done to create further content using these assets. I think this is where DLC comes in, but I feel they don't do enough with it. fallout 3 actually is the best example of reusing assets well. I bought all the expansions for fallout 3 and they were totally worth it. they were incredible value for money.
@tylerstravis
Seriously? Outside of AMC and the premium networks, TV is basically a trainwreck right now.
@tremault
ME2 was rushed. As was ME3. EA cares so much "further content" that they basically put no effort into the ACTUAL content. "An RPG takes effort? Bah, just kick it out the door in 18 months and we'll slap a ton of overpriced garbage onto it."
Seriously? Outside of AMC and the premium networks, TV is basically a trainwreck right now.
@tremault
ME2 was rushed. As was ME3. EA cares so much "further content" that they basically put no effort into the ACTUAL content. "An RPG takes effort? Bah, just kick it out the door in 18 months and we'll slap a ton of overpriced garbage onto it."
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