surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Those are counterpoints? No they're not. She basically is saying, "He's wrong and can go fuck himself" in nicer language.
I agree with what Bonner said. It seams as though games would be rated more fairly. Besides does it bother anyone else that the ratings are made without actually playing the game?
Whether or not she is honest in her defenses, the ESRB should still be open to it's employees ideas of change.
I can understand not having time to play a game from start to finish. Changing AO to something with a less negative connotation would also be favorable.
Okay, you could have just written "You sir, are a noob, FU" instead of the ESBR's response...
I'm SO glad there isn't any of this shit at where i live...
I'm SO glad there isn't any of this shit at where i live...
I've always thought the "not enough time" line is bullshit. If you're current staff can't handle it, hire more people. Game journalists and bloggers review nearly every game that comes out every month. There is no reason the ESRB can't do the same.
Wait, he wants a T-16 and a M-rating? Two separate ratings, one recommending 16+ and the other recommending 17+? I don't get it.
@MaxVest: Yeah, I don’t quite get it, either. As far as I understand, there’s:
E
E10+ (effectively ages 10-13)
T (13-17)
M (17+)
AO
Where is this T-16 rating supposed to fit in? Otherwise, though, all the changes that he calls for make sense to me.
E
E10+ (effectively ages 10-13)
T (13-17)
M (17+)
AO
Where is this T-16 rating supposed to fit in? Otherwise, though, all the changes that he calls for make sense to me.
Am I the only one intrigued by what made this guy's limited tenure at ERSB so 'unique'? Damnit, woman, don't hold out on us!
@Samit Sarkar: I do agree with some of his points, but he tends to paint the ESRB as mysterious and unpredictable. If that's true, we would tend to see game developers often surprised by preliminary ratings, making unanticipated changes in order to conform.
There is an interesting point there: Should the rating process be more transparent to the public? Raters/Testers? Game developers? All, or some subset?
There is an interesting point there: Should the rating process be more transparent to the public? Raters/Testers? Game developers? All, or some subset?
All of these complaints make sense, but I can't see the ESRB, with its current manpower and the glut of games on the market for it to rate, playing through every game it gets. In a perfect world, maybe, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
@pooper(?): Thanks, I didn't have a copy handy and couldn't read the tiny text on 1up's preview image.
@Peronthious:
If the ESRB cannot fully play every game they get then they need to do their job and hire more staff.
I agree with everything Boner (lol) said except for adding a T-16 rating. That sounds pretty pointless to me. What they should do is change the age restrictions on M titles to 16, not 17. If I'm mature enough to drive myself to the store in my own car then I should be mature enough to discern the real world from the virtual world.
If the ESRB cannot fully play every game they get then they need to do their job and hire more staff.
I agree with everything Boner (lol) said except for adding a T-16 rating. That sounds pretty pointless to me. What they should do is change the age restrictions on M titles to 16, not 17. If I'm mature enough to drive myself to the store in my own car then I should be mature enough to discern the real world from the virtual world.
My girlfriends Aunt used to work for Interplay. Her job was to provide the ESRB with the information (videos/pictures/work document) on violent and adult content in their videogames. She had to put together all sorts of info of the most violent scenes in games that they made.
I propose that the ESRB be destroyed and replaced with Destructoid as the main source of video game ratings. E for All, I declare!
Wow this shit sounds EXACTLY like the crap the MPAA pulls..If you haven't seen it PLEASE check out "This film is not yet rated" I'm seeing a lot of behavior that parallels what the MPAA does when it "Screens" films for ratings..At least they actually watch the entire film before they rate it. Jesus.
W. T. F.?
W. T. F.?
The biggest problem with the AO rating is that its called the AO rating. How would the uninformed (ignorant) masses react to a product that is rated as for "Adults Only"? Surely they assume that all 'Adult' content is about sex.
@highrobot, and everyone else who agrees with the idea of playing a game in it's entirety
What about those massive games that take forever to get through? What about MMO's? What about games that are difficult for even the most seasoned, hardcore gamer to beat?
If the ESRB did have to play every game through, in it's entirety, it would mean that some games would be delayed until God knows when. Let's take an MMO for example, let's go with one everyone knows, love it or hate it, WoW.
In order for WoW to get a rating, the ESRB would have to plow through every single quest available, kill every type of mob possible, get every single item available, interact with every NPC and item, create every kind of character possible, ect, ect.
THAT is what the "truth in videogames" bill wants the ESRB to do, and when you say you want the ESRB to "play through the game all the way", THAT'S what you're saying the ESRB should do.
If something like that were to go into effect, some games would be delayed indefinitely, just so a group of raters could go over every nook and cranny of the game. Just keep that in mind.
What about those massive games that take forever to get through? What about MMO's? What about games that are difficult for even the most seasoned, hardcore gamer to beat?
If the ESRB did have to play every game through, in it's entirety, it would mean that some games would be delayed until God knows when. Let's take an MMO for example, let's go with one everyone knows, love it or hate it, WoW.
In order for WoW to get a rating, the ESRB would have to plow through every single quest available, kill every type of mob possible, get every single item available, interact with every NPC and item, create every kind of character possible, ect, ect.
THAT is what the "truth in videogames" bill wants the ESRB to do, and when you say you want the ESRB to "play through the game all the way", THAT'S what you're saying the ESRB should do.
If something like that were to go into effect, some games would be delayed indefinitely, just so a group of raters could go over every nook and cranny of the game. Just keep that in mind.
I don't see why having another rating in the system is such a terrible idea, as long as they actually make use of all the ratings (hi2u E10+). Get rid of AO and bump M from 17+ to 18+, keep T at 13+, and put in a 16+ (or even 15). Most current M-rated games would fall into the 16+ category, with some of the more extreme ones being in the 18+ category.
If they did that, I wouldn't mind so much if they actually *enforced* the rules for the 18+ games. Realistically, games like Call of Duty, Halo, or Devil May Cry aren't so terribly heavy on the violence/nudity/language that they deserve to only be sold to people who are 17+, but there are some games like Manhunt 2 that really do push the line for vulgar content and just shouldn't be sold to minors.
If they did that, I wouldn't mind so much if they actually *enforced* the rules for the 18+ games. Realistically, games like Call of Duty, Halo, or Devil May Cry aren't so terribly heavy on the violence/nudity/language that they deserve to only be sold to people who are 17+, but there are some games like Manhunt 2 that really do push the line for vulgar content and just shouldn't be sold to minors.
I think the biggest thing is to indeed get rid of the AO rating. It is in fact more of a ban than a rating, something that should not be tolerated in this democratic nation. Mature should be the highest rating so developers can create their games without worrying about bending to the will of the ESRB (who bends to the will of politicians and soccer moms), and so adults can actually play games with adult content.
I agree with most all of his suggestions. I don't know whether some of his accusations are accurate, but if they are I like his solutions. Although I'm wary about making reviewers play all the way through a game. While it would certainly make ratings more accurate, playing through a 60 hour RPG is much more demanding than watching a 3 hour movie.
Commodus was ambushed in his bathtub and strangled by one of his male lovers. Followed by a damnatio memoriae.
i don't believe in censorship or limiting imagination. and that's what's happening. an AO game is a death wish,but the movie industry gets away with by adding that unrated tag. why can't a couple video games do this too?i can go to target and buy a unrated movie,i should be able to buy an unrated video game. "but the children" excuse, bullshit. video games didn't create crack or guns,humans did. video games didn't create crime,humans did. a video game no matter how bloody or blaw blaw blaw,it don't make no difference, you will raise your children how "you" raise them. a video game don't raise your children, their are games you shouldn't let kids play,but that the parents job, not the esrb.you gonna rate something play it all the way thru.maybe not an mmo but they can hire more people. they can hire me. or you. ahh.my ramblings don't make sense i assume. but to me they're my views. go upchuck yourself #1_in_the_hood_G!!
and jim sterling. another great topic added by you. i love reading your articles. #1_in_the_hood_G!!
I actually think a T-16 wouldn't be a bad idea. That would mean M-rated games would truly deserve M-ratings. For example, Halo 3 and the Orange Box would NOT get M ratings, but they would probably get T-16. Manhunt 2, however, would get an M-rating and deserve it.
As for playing the whole game, I don't think that would be a good idea. What if a developer put a secret sodomy mini-game in Animal Crossing 2, but it was only accessible by doing a whole bunch of stuff that the average reviewer wouldn't have time to sift through? The whole point of the video is it forces developers to put the most mature content in the game right up front so that reviewers can make a good decision.
*Note, I doubt Animal Crossing 2 would have sodomy, it's an extreme example, but that would still be totally awesome.
As for playing the whole game, I don't think that would be a good idea. What if a developer put a secret sodomy mini-game in Animal Crossing 2, but it was only accessible by doing a whole bunch of stuff that the average reviewer wouldn't have time to sift through? The whole point of the video is it forces developers to put the most mature content in the game right up front so that reviewers can make a good decision.
*Note, I doubt Animal Crossing 2 would have sodomy, it's an extreme example, but that would still be totally awesome.
well they should be honest in telling them what is in the game. but the esrb does need to play them, or its judging books by the cover and back. the movie rating board watches the movies first, they don't just watch the trailer and say pg-13.music is governed the same way albeit a little easier but still...........maybe we don't want them to play the whole game, the ratings are unfair anyway, a halo game is mature, if the movies came out with everything from the game it would be pg-13. there's a double standard, and with the news and soon to be the movie industry attacking video games because of gained or lost profits, its gonna get alot worse.
My copy of Shadowrun (on the Genesis) has a rating label of "MA-15" on the front of the cartridge.
I feel this is a fair rating, and ratings system.
I feel this is a fair rating, and ratings system.
I actually take the time to email & mail the ESRB with some of those points on a monthly basis unlike you inactive lot.
Personally, I'm in the camp of 'complete overhaul'.
Two numbers: A green one for an age that's ... say, -2 standard deviations (~97%) sound to play UNsupervised, and a yellow one for 97% sound to play supervised (Obviously the yellow should be lower than the green). If they're the same, then just put the green one on. If the unsupervised age is majority, then just put the yellow one on. If the game really isn't suitable for minors, I suppose just go with the yellow one set at majority, because to make it a big ol' red flag would lead to the same problems with existing NC-whatever and AO and Z ratings (and whatever the hell they use in other countries).
Of course, if the unsupervised number is much lower than 7 or 8, ever, you're just encouraging proxy parenting, and that discussion's been beaten into the ground.
And then: SAY WHAT IS SO BAD THAT IT DESERVES THE RATING IT GETS. Some of the content labels in place right now cover ridiculously wide ranges. You've all seen the Sexual themes flag: Is it a double-entendre? Is it a full-on sex scene? Is it something in between? Half the time it's something the player wouldn't even recognise as sexual! (There's other badly used tags, but that's probably the most egregious.)
This isn't to say the procedure doesn't need work. There are a lot of M games that are probably T material, and some T games that are probably 10 material, &c.... and there's a few games that are rated too leniently as well. But I doubt this is going to change unless you can get people to not react to snippets and soundbytes and understand things in a broader context - which isn't something that humans are suited to do.
And on top of that, yes there's a middle ground between 'play the thing to the point where there's no remaining test cases anywhere at all (Good luck with ever getting a sandbox game published again) and 'demo reel of the stuff we (want you to) think is the darkest, edgiest, most dangerous content in the game'. I'm going to say 'exposed and implemented assets', maybe with the game's general flowchart. See it how the developers do. If you STILL can't make a sound judgment off that, then the medium itself has a problem.
Two numbers: A green one for an age that's ... say, -2 standard deviations (~97%) sound to play UNsupervised, and a yellow one for 97% sound to play supervised (Obviously the yellow should be lower than the green). If they're the same, then just put the green one on. If the unsupervised age is majority, then just put the yellow one on. If the game really isn't suitable for minors, I suppose just go with the yellow one set at majority, because to make it a big ol' red flag would lead to the same problems with existing NC-whatever and AO and Z ratings (and whatever the hell they use in other countries).
Of course, if the unsupervised number is much lower than 7 or 8, ever, you're just encouraging proxy parenting, and that discussion's been beaten into the ground.
And then: SAY WHAT IS SO BAD THAT IT DESERVES THE RATING IT GETS. Some of the content labels in place right now cover ridiculously wide ranges. You've all seen the Sexual themes flag: Is it a double-entendre? Is it a full-on sex scene? Is it something in between? Half the time it's something the player wouldn't even recognise as sexual! (There's other badly used tags, but that's probably the most egregious.)
This isn't to say the procedure doesn't need work. There are a lot of M games that are probably T material, and some T games that are probably 10 material, &c.... and there's a few games that are rated too leniently as well. But I doubt this is going to change unless you can get people to not react to snippets and soundbytes and understand things in a broader context - which isn't something that humans are suited to do.
And on top of that, yes there's a middle ground between 'play the thing to the point where there's no remaining test cases anywhere at all (Good luck with ever getting a sandbox game published again) and 'demo reel of the stuff we (want you to) think is the darkest, edgiest, most dangerous content in the game'. I'm going to say 'exposed and implemented assets', maybe with the game's general flowchart. See it how the developers do. If you STILL can't make a sound judgment off that, then the medium itself has a problem.
How about they work with the game companies to make the Adults Only rating a legitimate rating and not a kiss of death at retail?
Simple: If there was a legitimate and not-stigmatised place for mature content, games might actually say something.
Now keep in mind that the same people who want to get rid of the mature content also generally want to turn the world around them into their own image. (Their progeny are simply easier targets.)
And they've either been told or driven themselves to believe that the video game is the most potent indoctrinating tool in human history. (As in the whole 'GTA made little Timmy kill his classmates' and too many media-enhanced stories in the same vein.)
Put all this together and suddenly video games are a challenge to their authority. Of course they're going to do what they can to get anything they can tell would be socially or philosophically moving blacklisted. And since companies like money more than ideas, they do it.
This is basically why it's up to massively obfuscated content and PC indie work to say the things that the community has to say right now.
Now keep in mind that the same people who want to get rid of the mature content also generally want to turn the world around them into their own image. (Their progeny are simply easier targets.)
And they've either been told or driven themselves to believe that the video game is the most potent indoctrinating tool in human history. (As in the whole 'GTA made little Timmy kill his classmates' and too many media-enhanced stories in the same vein.)
Put all this together and suddenly video games are a challenge to their authority. Of course they're going to do what they can to get anything they can tell would be socially or philosophically moving blacklisted. And since companies like money more than ideas, they do it.
This is basically why it's up to massively obfuscated content and PC indie work to say the things that the community has to say right now.
@Sam Spectre
Driving age varies, I think Alberta and some of the states (??Alaska) allow driving at 14, I don't think cause these kids can drive they should necessarily buy mature games.
Maybe rather than an AO type rating, it would be more sensible to come at it from a 'this is not for children angle'; NFC16, or NFC18, or content not advisable for children or something to that effect. It carries a different connotation, which doesnt scream satan and tits to the conservative biblethumpers.
Also, stop refusing me my satan and tits game, I can listen to it on my stereo, I can watch it on DVD, I can get it on TV, but you wont let me see it on my console??
Driving age varies, I think Alberta and some of the states (??Alaska) allow driving at 14, I don't think cause these kids can drive they should necessarily buy mature games.
Maybe rather than an AO type rating, it would be more sensible to come at it from a 'this is not for children angle'; NFC16, or NFC18, or content not advisable for children or something to that effect. It carries a different connotation, which doesnt scream satan and tits to the conservative biblethumpers.
Also, stop refusing me my satan and tits game, I can listen to it on my stereo, I can watch it on DVD, I can get it on TV, but you wont let me see it on my console??
I think the only important issue is the first one, removing the AO rating. It leads to preventive self-censorship, something I hate more than "real" censorship itself. I mean, should we really care about ESRB ratings? Aren't most of us older than 18? This should be a war fought by teens, not by adults. Think about it.
The only thing we need is to enable adults to play whatever game they want. Then we can debate (for the sake of argument) whether Half-Life is too shocking for an average teenager. The same teenager that binge-drinks, has unprotected sex and smokes coke, but is oh-so-endangered by videogames.
The only thing we need is to enable adults to play whatever game they want. Then we can debate (for the sake of argument) whether Half-Life is too shocking for an average teenager. The same teenager that binge-drinks, has unprotected sex and smokes coke, but is oh-so-endangered by videogames.
follow
