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eSports defenders: The reason why eSports can't be sports photo

Earlier this week, Destructoid promoted an interesting blog from one of our community members, titled "eSports: Really??" To say that Elsa's opinion generated quite a bit of heat is to put it very lightly indeed. A whirlwind of debate struck up, as some argued that gaming can be considered a sport, while others disagreed.

The debate, inherently, proved that playing games cannot be considered a sport. Those who want to represent eSports provided the evidence themselves.

It was by sheer virtue of their reaction that they did it. The level of childish insecurity, denial and accompanying viciousness from some people demonstrated that eSports has a long way to go before it can be deserving of the same level of respect as any athletic endeavor.

Elsa's article prompted one blogger to pen a counter-piece (one of several going up), "Ignore it and it will go away," in which he did anything but ignore it. He called it "baffling troll-bait" (apparently happy to take the bait while doing so) and went so far as to accuse Elsa of having a "damaged mind" for daring to suggest that there's no risk of major injuries in gaming. 

One of the most prominent reactions came from DJ Wheat, who is something of a celebrity within the competitive gaming circuit. His reaction was as childish as it was volatile -- attacking Destructoid as a whole by tweeting, "I wish I had the energy to give a fuck about this DTOID blog ... frankly you can't cure ignorance. Learn to research you fucks."

Of course, he clearly did have the energy to give a fuck, since he followed that tweet with several more, exposing how much he cared in spite of his affected attempts to appear dismissive. It's a common thread among such people -- going to great pains to say they "don't care" what outsiders think of the industry, then launching into long, angry diatribes that betray their real emotional investment. 

These instances aren't isolated; they're just two of the most noteworthy. There are people on forums and social networks across the Internet, raging passionately at the Destructoid article and taking it incredibly seriously. But then you consider the most important fact of all ... Elsa isn't even a Destructoid writer. She's a community member. A reader. That's not to say her opinions are invalid or not worth discussing, but she's not representing anybody but herself. In essence, we have a community of eSports fans and some very prominent spokesmen for the industry, upset and angry over the opinion of a single random gamer on the Internet.

Before we promoted her article, we had a week of excellent EVO coverage by our official staff member, Jesse Cortez, a man who loves competitive gaming and paid it due respect. We promoted one less enthusiastic voice from among our community, and that's what was latched onto -- to the exclusion of all else -- as proof that Destructoid hates professional gamers now. It's pitiful.

eSports fans love to validate themselves with comparisons to real sports, so I've got one for you! The reaction to Elsa's blog from certain industry members is akin to me writing an article stating that football isn't a real sport, and having John Madden email an entire article back to explain why I'm an idiot for thinking it. It wouldn't happen, because Madden is A) Too busy with his real sport to care and B) Knows that football is so obviously a sport that he needs to do nothing but laugh and move on -- if he could even muster that much of a reaction. 

This is where we reach the crucial difference between the world of eSports and the world of sports. Until eSports spokesmen can learn to get over the criticism and fucking deal with it, gaming can never be considered a sport. A man with over 23,000 Twitter followers shouldn't be calling a random community member a "fuck" in public because she stated a contrary opinion. In a "real" sport, whoever did that would be mocked openly and regarded as a very poor example of his industry. In eSports, that level of unwarranted, infantile aggression is apparently applauded. 

It is, how you say, not very sporting of someone to attack one of our readers for her opinion.

It's not the first time this has happened, either, even in recent memory. Just type "Kotaku eSports" into Google for an afternoon's worth of reading fun. That entire site hasn't yet been forgiven for "shitting" on eSports, and as we see such articles as "eSports Community Rallies against Kotaku article," I have to ask: What is the community so afraid of? Why is eSports such a fragile and delicate little buttercup that it needs protecting so viciously? 

I used to be the same way when it came to games and art. I'd get all bent out of shape when the likes of Roger Ebert would declare that games could never be art, but then I realized... what the fuck do I care? I think games are art, so the opinion of one old man who won't be around much longer doesn't really matter. Let him think what he thinks; I'm too busy playing games to care whether or not they're respected by strangers! Sadly, there are still too many people who do get upset by the likes of Ebert, and they undermine the entire idea of games as an artistic medium by virtue of their own lack of confidence.

I'm all about like-for-like debate. If you're up against a mean-spirited individual with a significant audience who is claiming that pro gamers are all virgins who deserve to die alone, then by all means, let 'em have it. Crude attacks constructed to deliberately harm reputations definitely deserve a fight. I've argued in the name of childish behavior before when dealing with such people. There's a major difference, however, between using an opponent's childish tactics against them and responding to reasonably written material with an unwarranted, completely overindulgent level of vitriol, especially when this person is not an influential pundit on a big stage, but a gamer blogging in their spare time who simply wanted to share an opinion. There's absolutely nothing to be gained in that instance, so it shouldn't be worth that level of anger and hate. 

Someone who constantly demands respect and validation usually doesn't deserve it, and I know I definitely can't respect eSports while it's full of so many insecure little men who can't take a bit of criticism from someone who isn't even a staffed writer at any gaming outlet. Those who got angry and hateful ought to be ashamed of themselves and feel incredibly stupid. As ambassadors for eSports, they let their entire industry down and demonstrated only that things have a long way to go before they can be considered respectable. 

I appreciate that it's a long road to get competitive gaming recognized in the mainstream. Even among gamers, it's a hard sell. Some people straight-up don't like it. Others enjoy it, but can't seriously feel it's a "sport" of any kind. Insecure demands and entitled expectations of respect are not the way to get the dignity that some feel it deserves. It needs spokesmen, not demagogues or trained attack dogs. It needs celebration, not petty little counter-attacks to articles that really would have gone away by now if nobody had gotten so pathetically upset. 

There is good debate to be had over whether we can call gaming a sport or not -- but it needs to be a real debate. Infantile gibbering and screams of "IGNORANT! YOU'RE SO IGNORANT" isn't a reasonable discussion. We're planning to publish a pro-eSports article from a member of the industry this week, and he's been prepared to actually debate the matter, rather than simply repeat the same "YOU'RE STUPID" rhetoric slung around by others. They could learn from his example and engage in a discussion, rather than a blind, angsty defense. 

By all means, champion eSports to those who seek to harm it, but don't get your panties in a bunch because a person doesn't think "sport" is the right classification. Such a level of venom in an argument over fucking semantics is disgraceful, and until an unrecognized writer can criticize eSports without earning the wrath of some of its biggest supporters, it's no sport in my eyes. It might be one day, but this week, it certainly isn't. 








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Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize. Likes PS2, iPod Touch, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid, Dynasty Warriors 3 Meet the rest of the team



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260 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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killias2's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:04
killias2
"It was by sheer virtue of their reaction that did it. The level of childish insecurity and outright viciousness from some people demonstrated that eSports has a long way to go before it can be deserving of the same level of respect as any athletic endeavor."

I stopped reading after this. What do some dumb forum and blog comments have to do with the presence of or lack thereof of eSports?

Personally, I think we're steadily making progress here. I don't care about the semantics of what you call it, but people are definitely spending more and more time watching other people play vidjagaemz.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:06
Jim Sterling
"I stopped reading after this. What do some dumb forum and blog comments have to do with the presence of or lack thereof of eSports? "

If you'd have not stopped reading, you'd know.
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:07
Daxelman
All true and all, but really, when when riots in the streets happen because Yipes goes and perfects Justin Wong in Marvel vs Capcom 3, then we can start claiming that eSports fans are bad.
EightBitRob's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:08
EightBitRob
Anyone who ever says I dont give a fuck ostensibly gives a fuck
pokota's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:08
pokota
"it's no sport in my eyes"

Not to take sides, but I'm not sure how valid "I don't like the fans so it's not a sport" really is, or why anyone should actually care that you have this opinion.

Also, English soccer fans offend me with their riots, WHERE PEOPLE DIE, so that's not a sport, either.
Janklogs's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:09
Janklogs
FLAWLESS VICTORY
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:10
mistic
wow, that is exactly what I was thinking after reading those comments on Elsa's blog...
flintmech's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:10
flintmech
Well said. Unfortunately the assholes around the Internet bashing Elsa won't read this article.
I Palindrome I's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:10
I Palindrome I
I am a fan of eSports and want them to grow, but I do not endorse the shitstorm that was generated due to Elsa's blog. You do have a point, Jim. Perhaps I shouldn't be so optimistic as I stated in my blog.
Mueti's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:11
Mueti
Semantics, it is. Again.
OneRed's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:11
OneRed
I agree with a lot of this, and honestly, the reason why I completely avoided that CBlog was because I simply don't care to debate it at all. Why? Because I already have my opinions on the subject and honestly, they're as sound in my eyes as any opinion I've ever had.

I have spent the better part of the last 3 months or so watching huge amounts of SC2 and Quake Live, rather than TV. These two games showcase a level of skill and competitiveness not seen at all in the more popular MLG games. Evo showcased another form of competitive gaming that far exceeds what is most popular.

If gaming is to be considered competitive on a world class scale that puts it side by side with other competitive endeavors, then first we must agree what is and is not competitive in gaming itself. That is where I feel the real debate is. Should Halo and Call of Duty be considered the pinnacle of gaming competition, or should more purist games like Starcraft, Quake, and Street Fighter hold that distinction? If you ask me, games like Halo and COD are little league compared to these games.
Heatbox's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:12
Heatbox
So you've written a giant tantrum about people who threw a giant tantrum?
TheNephilym's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:12
TheNephilym
I agree, Jim, that the name calling, belittling comments, and complete disregard for the fact that it was a simple opinion got way out of hand. I felt bad for poor Elsa. I still thought the point the blog made was off and said so. I also think your notion that eSports will never be validated because of a childish fanbase is off. I hear football fans call each other stupid and ignorant all the time. You can't take the game away from the players because the fans don't know how to just sit down and shut up. That said, I think eSports are so dumb. :P
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:13
Elsa
I don't think a lot of people realize that here on Destructoid there is a "topic of the week" that the blogging community can write about... and nobody needs any qualifications to do so, they just have to type out something and post it to their c-blog and hope that conversation results.

It's actually one of the nicer aspects of Dtoid that any of the community bloggers can have a blog promoted to the front page... though I guess sometimes it backfires and our random ramblings get taken out of context as some sort of journalism or professional opinion.

I love gaming, I love competitive gaming... I just personally don't see it as a sport and frankly I think that competitive gaming is far more interesting and fun. As noted, it's like the whole games are art argument... it's mostly semantics anyway and none of it is really a big deal. Personally I just think gaming is gaming... and I love it! It's part art, part game, part sport - it's just it's own thing and should be celebrated as such.
... but of course that's just the opinion of one gamer.

(and I was kinda hoping the whole thing would just die away... but I guess not for a while longer! LOL!)
danblu3's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:14
danblu3
To be fair people put up good opinions and defended it what I saw in my eyes was right. Yes ok about 3 - 4 people said wrong things but in a thread that has over 150+ replies, as usual people pick up the bad one and just nitpick. I enjoyed reading the debates on that post and giving my own input, hell I even signed up just to give my input and now continue commenting. :D I think that the thread was fair. Many people said the right thing, e - sports and sports are two different things. Leave it at that :)
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:16
Jim Sterling
People are definitely right in that sports fans are dicks as well when they want to be. My main point was the high profile eSport defenders getting involved. A football commentator wouldn't join a football riot, for example. Not without becoming a laughing stock.

I altered the use of the word "fan" in the article to reflect that. It's more about the spokesmen and defenders.
Swanny's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:17
Swanny
<3 on for Jim when he's out there making points.
numberThirtyOne's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:18
numberThirtyOne
The fact that you think fans of "real" sports have some kind of standard of maturity or internet etiquette shows that you know just as little about Sports as you do about eSports.
LawofThermalDynamics's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:18
LawofThermalDynamics
The only problem I have with this blog is

opinion of a single random gamer on the Internet.

It should be:

opinion of a single awesome gamer on the Internet.

We love you Elsa!!!
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:18
Chris Carter
The only "sport" related thing I learned from all these shenanigans, is that Elsa is a good sport :D
TheRemedy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:19
TheRemedy
So childish comments are exclusive to the esports community now? Have you never read the comments on one of your own reviews by members of this community?
Allistair Pinsof's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:21
Allistair Pinsof
Pissing off a lot of people < getting 200+ comments retweets all over the internet.

You did good, Elsa!
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:21
Jim Sterling
"So childish comments are exclusive to the esports community now?"

That's EXACTLY what I said, yes. To the very letter.
Tristrix's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:21
Tristrix
Elsa Is Right

I want that on a t-shirt.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:22
Occams electric toothbrush
Someone (my egg shell white mind forgets) brought up a good point about watching a video game tournament and realizing that he wasn't watching it for the sporting aspect, he was watching it cause it was a video game he enjoyed. That made me think. Watching EVO this year I was really into the matches but it was because I liked the games and it had nothing to do with the competition. So I guess that sport aspect just doesn't exist for me.

As for yesterday, its a shame when a chance for discussion and debate turns into the parking lot of an all ages club in Alabama at 2 am.
Taco28's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:22
Taco28
*gasp*Someone got mad at someone else for having a diffrent opinion than them on the internet?Madness I say!

Also I second what LawofThermalDynamics said
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:22
Epic-Kx
Elsa does SUCK at Halo.....
;D

Jk we love ya Elsa
free touch's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:23
free touch
In this article, Jim shows how pissy he is because someone other than himself trolled people into 200+ repsonses.
ESGS Scots's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:24
ESGS Scots
To be fair to the esports community as a whole, I gather that DJ Wheat has always been somewhat of a biased esports white knight. He's still one of my favorite SC2 casters. I'd be more concerned about the community when Day[9] starts getting bad mannered, as he's the biggest esports defender in the freakin' universe.
Alex Barbatsis's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:25
Alex Barbatsis
#TeamElsa
Attacking someone, actually, whining about someone's opinion is so immature and such a waste of time. She makes clear points of why she thinks esports shouldn't be considered sports. Throwing back "UR DUMMY" is such a waste of time. I was reading the comments on her article and laughing about how tactless they where near the end, containing no counterpoints or validity. I guess that's an opinion as well, but too bad you're not as talented as Elsa in showing us why that's your opinion.
Shinta's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:25
Shinta
This article is brilliant, and I completely agree. It's about time they got called out for their unbelievable hyper-sensitivity.

And for the record, I don't think it's a sport at all. That's not putting it down, that's just because it's not a sport, and the mainstream is never going to call it a sport because you're not even moving around. It takes more than just being competitive, it has to be somewhat physical. Call it competitive gaming and no one will bat an eyelash, because that's what it is. The hyper-sensitivity probably comes from deep-seeded insecurity from the inner realization that it's not a sport, even though they deny it.

Is Jeopardy a sport? Is debate team a sport? They're both competitive, and don't require any physical exertion. Is a short story contest a sport? Of course these aren't sports.

I don't really care if you guys keep calling it a sport even though it isn't. But don't flip out on people for disagreeing with you. Until you can explain to me why Jeopardy is a legitimate sport, then realize the obvious truth that many people disagree about your definition of what a sport is. The only people convince are those that back down from bullies, which is pathetic.
Vallanthaz's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:25
Vallanthaz
lol E-sports
Handy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:26
Handy
I’m pretty much repeating my comment from Elsa’s blog yesterday here but…

There’s enjoying completive gaming and then there’s those that take it way too seriously, and the latter are fucking crazy. The only thing that validates their opinion about games being like sport is that they’re acting like our version of football hooligans.

I see people at events like EVO who really look like they’re a community enjoying things and I hope they’re the majority, but these people who are just dickheads about it, they’ve soured me on competitive gaming, now and before.

They make the most hard-line, pretentious, GAMES ARE ART snob, look pleasant.
shizknight's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:26
shizknight
I don't think you can invalid eSports as a sport simply because it has a rabid fanbase. My main problem is this statement, "Until eSports spokesmen can learn to get over the criticism and fucking deal with it, gaming can never be considered a sport."

Firstly, you give quite the honor to DJ Wheat. You elevate him to the level of a John Madden for eSports. Then you use his vitriol(and others) as your basis for why eSports can't be a sport.

To use an analogy of my own, this would be like saying that the PS3 isn't a real gaming console because of all the rabid fanboys or the game developers with ridiculous claims about how only it can run some game they've written.

If you want to defend the previous article, that's fine and I support that. I just don't think a group of idiots and assholes supporting something invalidates the thing.

If anything, what I've garnered from all this is eSports has a very vocal and very worthless group of human refuse behind it. That's really not all that different from any other sport.
sevink's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:27
sevink
I do not think "esports" are a illegitimate sport, but they are fun and entertaining to watch. I a lot of people are very very insecure about esports because there is still so much persecution and hope that goes along with the esports community. They want legitimacy so bad that it hurts them anytime someone comes out and a negative viewpoint or something that could again hurt their legitimacy.

On the flip side, I hope Dtoid doesn't pussy out and try to use the whole "it was a community blog" bs. If you promote an article to your front page you are endorsing that article whether or not that writer got paid.

Oh well, you somehow got me to look at your shitty site again for the first time in 9 months. Guess that counts for something right?
OneRed's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:27
OneRed
@Jim

This is the part of your argument that makes little sense to me. Charles Barkley gets involved all the time, many high profile sports figures engage in this shit every single day. People love Charles Barkley for it, he roasts anyone he feels like with abandon. He's not alone either, as a sports fan who actively keeps up with sports the world over, high profile sports figures are always defending their interests with little consideration for how offensive they are in doing so. In fact, it is rampant, and one of the things that makes following sports so interesting, especially in countries with more roughneck leagues.

I agree that the supporters of esports are as much to blame for its lack of acceptance on the established competitive world stage (for the most part), but DJ Wheat's statements are no less appalling and out of place than anything that goes on in major athletic sports leagues. I understand where your'e coming from, but I would say that your are grossly overestimating the maturity level of those involved in established athletic sport.
danblu3's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:28
danblu3
I love how people go on the article. Read the last page and then post saying "omg immature" am I the only one who saw decent debates and fair points? Skip the fuck wits!
Mysterious-G's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:28
Mysterious-G
Perhaps some eSportlers think eBashing is a sport, aswell?
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:28
Daxelman
It kinda did happen with the art games debate though. If a bit in reverse.

Though I commend Elsa on getting the righteousness she deserves instead of the BS she's been getting from people like whoever the hell DJ Wheat...

Excuse me, but what? DJ Wheat? That's worse that Deadmau5.
Leandri's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:30
Leandri
Not really sure what to think of you Jim. I've been avoiding most of your posts because I didn't really like the subject-matter in most of your articles, but you've changed my mind. Your article rang true in many respects, so all I can do is tip my hat to you sir.
WastelandTraveler's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:30
WastelandTraveler
"So childish comments are exclusive to the esports community now?"

If you ignore fanatical hockey, football, and baseball fans.. YES! :D (yes i put hockey in bold for a very specific reason) <3 penguins!

Also, if you want to see some serious, well respected and actually damn mature crowd of eSports you need only look here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2MJiOoBdx0?t=4m19s - A gauntlet of honor and respect among both the people who watch, and those who play.
Bakewell's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:32
Bakewell
I think its sad that people trashed Elsa's opinion and took away the lime light from some solid counter points.

I think some people got pissed about how some of Elsa's opinions came across as fact but yhe counterpoints were totally drowned out by the hate.

Elsa is a star and I read all of her blogs but as an opinion piece I thought the esports piece did come across as lacking research and badly worded.
Leandri's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:32
Leandri
PS: Saving that image to my harddrive
Hasney's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:32
Hasney
As a giant F1 fan, I get this "it's not a sport" argument pointed to me a lot, so I can understand people being defensive when the argument is presented as "It's a load of shit, not a sport, dickhead!".

However, if someone argued against me in a thoughtful and elequent way like Elsa did, then I would reply with counter-points like a civilised human being.

It's a small man complex though. For all the attention this most recent Evo got (and I have to say, it's still not for me. Just made me want to play SF4 some more), it's still a small fledgling thing, so everyone that's into video games has to like it or they will be part ofthe problem in their eyes.
Anne IFrank's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:33
Anne IFrank
I read through most of the comments and for every childish one there seemed to be one that was reasonable.
Hasney's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:33
Hasney
Also, eSports are a load of shit, not sports, dickheads!
WastelandTraveler's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:34
WastelandTraveler
doh fast foward to 4:19 in the video ;f stupid youtube linking.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:35
Volomon
It was by sheer virtue of their reaction that did it. The level of childish insecurity and outright viciousness from some people demonstrated that eSports has a long way to go before it can be deserving of the same level of respect as any athletic endeavor.

I stopped there, with "real" sports causing full on riots with damages in the millions, even in so called peaceful loving Canada. I have to assume the rest of the article is direct dribble in the defense of putting the originating article up and has no real premise.
Johnny Luchador's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:36
Johnny Luchador
wtf is an Esport, and why should I care. And Jim, why in the holy hell aren't you defending your mother land, place is all on fire and Godzilla attacked and something something about james bond being busy and sherlock holmes having a drinking problem. Mary Poppins to the Rescue!
pokota's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2011 12:36
pokota
"My main point was the high profile eSport defenders getting involved"

I disagree with that, and there is actually pretty recent precedence as to why. I remember when "extreme sports" were not only not classified as sports, but viewed negatively, and now it's a huge industry. I used to run an indoor skate park, I've met many of the most popular skaters, and many of them were complete assholes. They weren't stars or household names back then, though, they were just guys who were in skating magazines. They smoked pot in the van, tagged any paint-able surface, and started fights with fans.

You simply can't compare the stars of an established sport with those of a budding sport. The people you're talking about don't have managers, or agents, or marketing teams, or lawyers on staff, or public relations people. The rules are a lot different with a fringe sport that is fighting for acceptance than with an established sport with billions of dollars behind it.
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