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Yes piracy is a problem but not making games for a platform or crating shitty DRM isn't the solution also no one is mentioning the used games market
What Epic means to say is that they love all the millions of dollars Microsoft is throwing them to keep games like Gears exclusive.
If Epic hadn't been stupid enough to release UT3 two weeks after COD 4 they would be in a much better position on PC right now.
If you look at the sucessful big PC company's and even the small ones like Stardock they all accept piracy as a fact of the PC. They realise that you cannot make someone buy your game and instead you have to look for a way to make buying your games more attractive than pirating it. Valve, Blizzard and Stardock all provide a better option than pirating games by giving the people that buy the game support and extra content for free. However those devs that dont do this and in effect abandon their games after release suffer from piracy as people see no reason to buy their games. When you buy a Valve game you arnt just buying the disk you are buying lifelong support and service.
Strangely enough, the last Epic game I purchased was UT2004. Something about it rubbed me the wrong way, so I've completely ignored Epic ever since. Maybe it was because of the consolization of their games, I don't know, but I'll likely never buy another Epic game.
Is it due to piracy? In my case, no. I bought nearly every flavor of Unreal they released.
Is it due to piracy? In my case, no. I bought nearly every flavor of Unreal they released.
@brod it was released directly after COD4, Halo, AND Orange Box. I am a big UT fan, but honestly, it didn't stand a chance. That was the perfect storm of FPS launches, and UT3 was no COD4. It is much better after several huge content filled patches and tweaks, and if I recall they ended up selling well over a million copies on PC alone, it was just slow initially due to their timing.
piracy is and end to justify a means, it's so popular in Russia because it takes so long to release games there so they would rather pirate it than wait to pay legit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xHJ_vhAkc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xHJ_vhAkc&feature=related
Typical problem with "major" companies, blaming something else for either their ineptitude or blaming something else, in which there is another factor entirely of why they don't sell.
It's like a child in school blaming an "F" grade they received on their test, on the shoulders of the teach. "Yeah mommy, it's the teachers fault! She didn't teach me, and she doesn't like me!"
It's like a child in school blaming an "F" grade they received on their test, on the shoulders of the teach. "Yeah mommy, it's the teachers fault! She didn't teach me, and she doesn't like me!"
Why does this sound familiar?
Oh wait I know, didn't some other developer say this not too long ago? like.. id? or Ubisoft? Like,exactly that line.Its as if they've got a party line to tow or something.
Oh wait I know, didn't some other developer say this not too long ago? like.. id? or Ubisoft? Like,exactly that line.Its as if they've got a party line to tow or something.
I donno, personally I blame the marketing of PC games. One they can't be traded in any more, because of over zealous anti-piracy measures, games come with more and more DRM. Even though almost any other game on the shelf can be copied/pirated.
In fact I'd have to say it's an over reaction to POTENTIAL piracy (not actual piracy), that has cause the issue and not actually piracy itself.
PC games are often not even in some game stores any more, only recently have I seen them start to go back on the shelves.
Due to lack of availability and accessibility you being to limit potential buyers, and being to force them to purchase through other means, such as console versions which are readily available and can be traded or even at least returned to the store. When you buy a PC game it makes you feel like you just purchased a condom, and any attempt to return it is looked at like it was a used condom.
When you have no readily accessible way to reach the games you want and have to jump through hoops to get what you want, I don't know seems to me that that kind of situation promotes piracy to me. The solution has always been worse than the problem, and has only hindered the PC gaming market.
This is why Steam is successful the games are readily available with a wide selection and even sales. Despite the fact that you can't trade them back in, you still have an overwhelming convenience compared to say Gamestop.
In fact I'd have to say it's an over reaction to POTENTIAL piracy (not actual piracy), that has cause the issue and not actually piracy itself.
PC games are often not even in some game stores any more, only recently have I seen them start to go back on the shelves.
Due to lack of availability and accessibility you being to limit potential buyers, and being to force them to purchase through other means, such as console versions which are readily available and can be traded or even at least returned to the store. When you buy a PC game it makes you feel like you just purchased a condom, and any attempt to return it is looked at like it was a used condom.
When you have no readily accessible way to reach the games you want and have to jump through hoops to get what you want, I don't know seems to me that that kind of situation promotes piracy to me. The solution has always been worse than the problem, and has only hindered the PC gaming market.
This is why Steam is successful the games are readily available with a wide selection and even sales. Despite the fact that you can't trade them back in, you still have an overwhelming convenience compared to say Gamestop.
Why does this sound familiar?
Oh wait I know, didn't some other developer say this not too long ago? like.. id? or Ubisoft? Like,exactly that line. Its as if they've got a party line to tow or something.
Eh, I guess I can scratch Epic off my "companies that want my money" list, I don't like it when they insult my platform of choice with the allusions they're making.
Oh wait I know, didn't some other developer say this not too long ago? like.. id? or Ubisoft? Like,exactly that line. Its as if they've got a party line to tow or something.
Eh, I guess I can scratch Epic off my "companies that want my money" list, I don't like it when they insult my platform of choice with the allusions they're making.
People steal cars, therefor car theft is the downfall of the car industry. Clearly car companies should instead switch to only making motorcycles. In lieu of completely alienating an entire customer base, there is also the option of making keys that only unlock the car 3 times before you have to buy a new one.
The hardware costs too much, I can't believe that the developers still can't grasp this fact.
Take the new multi-only Shattered Horizon. Looks like a good game, but sadly, DirectX10/11 only, which would mean that I'd have to buy Windows 7 and upgrade my rig AGAIN.
If you spend more on your PC in 3 years that you would have spent had you bought EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE during the last 3 generations, how can you still be surprised that PC games don't bring in as much dosh as console games.
Take the new multi-only Shattered Horizon. Looks like a good game, but sadly, DirectX10/11 only, which would mean that I'd have to buy Windows 7 and upgrade my rig AGAIN.
If you spend more on your PC in 3 years that you would have spent had you bought EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE during the last 3 generations, how can you still be surprised that PC games don't bring in as much dosh as console games.
I think Piracy has damaged the market, yes, but I don't think it's the "death" of the scene. Piracy plagued the PS1, yet that did absolutely brilliantly at the time. Consoles have piracy, yet they're doing well.
The PC suffers from many things. Companies are screwing over PC gamers, whether it's with new forms of DRM (UbiSoft, I'm looking at you) or by not completing a series on the PC (Fable, Gears of War, and some others), or if they do give it to us it's often a very poor port or comes later (Mirror's Edge came later, Saints Row 2 wasn't a great port etc).
What killer franchises do we have? Right now, none. The Sims has been on/off consoles in various forms, Civilization also. All we seem to have are MMOs, and they're not for everyone.
The PC suffers from many things. Companies are screwing over PC gamers, whether it's with new forms of DRM (UbiSoft, I'm looking at you) or by not completing a series on the PC (Fable, Gears of War, and some others), or if they do give it to us it's often a very poor port or comes later (Mirror's Edge came later, Saints Row 2 wasn't a great port etc).
What killer franchises do we have? Right now, none. The Sims has been on/off consoles in various forms, Civilization also. All we seem to have are MMOs, and they're not for everyone.
LOL--piracy killed the DS, too, right Nintendo? :-\
This is such a BS argument. There are LOADS of independent PC developers out there that are doing extremely well thanks to the internet. They can also thank consoles because their PC indie titles a lot of times get picked up for PSN or XBLA releases. All of Epic's mouthpieces need to STFU NOW. I am sick of hearing their greedy assholes fart excuses.
This is such a BS argument. There are LOADS of independent PC developers out there that are doing extremely well thanks to the internet. They can also thank consoles because their PC indie titles a lot of times get picked up for PSN or XBLA releases. All of Epic's mouthpieces need to STFU NOW. I am sick of hearing their greedy assholes fart excuses.
Didnt they sell like 200k UT3 steam copies on free weekend?
Also, no one bought GearsPC because of that Gold bullshit at that time.
Also, no one bought GearsPC because of that Gold bullshit at that time.
@AdmantiumHip & @Corduroy Turtle
Thats a pretty big and untrue claim to be making there. Not all pc gamers are pirates, and piracy is only one of the components of the problem.
As for the topic, I always find it ironic that people quickly default to piracy when talking about the issues with the PC market. Even if the entire pc gaming scene just dropped out and left one day, there would still be a good portion of people pirating console games. It's not that hard, and there are no doubt people who do it. The problem isn't with piracy itself (although i agree it is a big issue), its the way companies chose to handle it. On one side you have companies such as valve who, despite having their games pirated just like anyone else, uses a pro-buy campaign to give benefits to people who support them and buy the game, while on the other side you have companies that view piracy as their biggest threat and treat everyone like garbage just to try and stop a few people.
Thats a pretty big and untrue claim to be making there. Not all pc gamers are pirates, and piracy is only one of the components of the problem.
As for the topic, I always find it ironic that people quickly default to piracy when talking about the issues with the PC market. Even if the entire pc gaming scene just dropped out and left one day, there would still be a good portion of people pirating console games. It's not that hard, and there are no doubt people who do it. The problem isn't with piracy itself (although i agree it is a big issue), its the way companies chose to handle it. On one side you have companies such as valve who, despite having their games pirated just like anyone else, uses a pro-buy campaign to give benefits to people who support them and buy the game, while on the other side you have companies that view piracy as their biggest threat and treat everyone like garbage just to try and stop a few people.
I can't believe there are actual penises on this blog insinuating that Pirating isn't the cancer that is eating the arse out of PC gaming. Fucking grow up! And then, just to add to your cocksucking stupidity, you try and make out that Epic have somehow failed, with this statement, and passed decisions. I think they'll know a damn sight more about this than some random intertwat..
Gamers really are some of the most arrogant little pricks I've ever come across.
Gamers really are some of the most arrogant little pricks I've ever come across.
@chaosteacup
Theres no doubt that piracy is a big problem with PC gaming, but the fact is that piracy is a big problem with anything. Everywhere you look you can find pirating: Console games, music, videos, movies. It is a problem for sure, but it is also a problem that cannot ever be truly stopped. We then reach another big problem with PC gaming which is almost as bad as piracy itself: The way companies react to it. As people have already stated above, some of the reasons pc gaming has become so unattractive is because of the mechanisms various companies do to defend their property. Is it fair for them to do so? Of course, but to what extent does it become so conflicting with the average user that its actually making piracy worse?
Theres no doubt that piracy is a big problem with PC gaming, but the fact is that piracy is a big problem with anything. Everywhere you look you can find pirating: Console games, music, videos, movies. It is a problem for sure, but it is also a problem that cannot ever be truly stopped. We then reach another big problem with PC gaming which is almost as bad as piracy itself: The way companies react to it. As people have already stated above, some of the reasons pc gaming has become so unattractive is because of the mechanisms various companies do to defend their property. Is it fair for them to do so? Of course, but to what extent does it become so conflicting with the average user that its actually making piracy worse?
@ChaosTeaCup who shat in your tea this morning?
Epic makes their money on engine development nowadays anyway. Since it's easier to shovel out a game with a licensed engine, more of Epic's customers are focused on the console side of the house. Capp's big problem is that they didn't take any of the robust stuff from UT2004 with regards to multiplayer management and move it forward, otherwise the PC based results from their engine would be great instead of the relatively subpar efforts that did end up making it onto PC.
Epic makes their money on engine development nowadays anyway. Since it's easier to shovel out a game with a licensed engine, more of Epic's customers are focused on the console side of the house. Capp's big problem is that they didn't take any of the robust stuff from UT2004 with regards to multiplayer management and move it forward, otherwise the PC based results from their engine would be great instead of the relatively subpar efforts that did end up making it onto PC.
Seems to me that it's lack of compelling exclusive content and a very poor value proposition, especially in light of the significantly improved (and I'd say possibly superior) console controls for shooters.
They do seem to be getting back on track with cheaper games (largely thanks to constant Steam sales) and almost no one pushing the technological envelope so that even a cheap computer (or one that is 3 years old) can keep up with most modern games.
Piracy always gets the blame but whenever anyone looks at it in a remotely scientific way it turns out that piracy (as should be obvious to any casual observer) is a symptom and not a cause.
They do seem to be getting back on track with cheaper games (largely thanks to constant Steam sales) and almost no one pushing the technological envelope so that even a cheap computer (or one that is 3 years old) can keep up with most modern games.
Piracy always gets the blame but whenever anyone looks at it in a remotely scientific way it turns out that piracy (as should be obvious to any casual observer) is a symptom and not a cause.
Piracy is definitely a problem within the PC gaming community but in the case of Epic I can really say that with them, it's less about piracy and more about releasing mediocre less focused PC products. UT3 was their last foray in to PC gaming and it was just a downright sad iteration in what is otherwise usually a franchise that has always delivered.
ZRB: don't feed the trolls. Let chaosteacup go back to playing Halo in his mom's basement with his pals from middle school.
those fickle pirates who were never gonna buy the software anyway stole millions of invisible dollars from those developers...
damn them for making no impact...
... but they make great scapegoats!
damn them for making no impact...
... but they make great scapegoats!
"The hardware costs too much, I can't believe that the developers still can't grasp this fact." This.
Does the average consumer want to spend all their time and money continuously upgrading the hardware and software in their PC to keep up with system requirements on whatever the latest resource-hungry title is...or do they want to spend $400-500 about every 5 years or so (unless you own a red-ringing 360, of course) to buy a console that they are guaranteed will be able to ably handle an entire generation of games, requiring little or no technical know-how?
But yeah...it's piracy that's choking the PC gaming industry. Just like it's destroying every other industry and causing all global commerce to cease immediately.
Does the average consumer want to spend all their time and money continuously upgrading the hardware and software in their PC to keep up with system requirements on whatever the latest resource-hungry title is...or do they want to spend $400-500 about every 5 years or so (unless you own a red-ringing 360, of course) to buy a console that they are guaranteed will be able to ably handle an entire generation of games, requiring little or no technical know-how?
But yeah...it's piracy that's choking the PC gaming industry. Just like it's destroying every other industry and causing all global commerce to cease immediately.
Fuck off Killias2. What has Halo (a game I've never rally liked incidentally) got to do with this? I'm a 35 year old former PC gamer who watched the PC gaming world shrivel before my very eyes. And I'm English so I don't have a 'mom' I have a Mum.
@ChaosTeaCup
Look at any torrent site on launch day for a 360/PC game.
There will be more active 360 torrents, that are leaked at least a week before release, nonetheless.
Look at any torrent site on launch day for a 360/PC game.
There will be more active 360 torrents, that are leaked at least a week before release, nonetheless.
In my case, piracy was a brilliant marketing tool. My PS2 (read one of the most successful consoles EVAR) was fitted with a HDD and network card allowing me to rent games and rip them to the HDD or to simply download them to the HDD.
I played every game i had any vague interest in.
...A generation on and my console is all legit, but I still buy any game that i have any vague interest in, just rather than download it, I actually buy it.
So yeah, pirating got me into the mindset of "too much time, not enough games" which makes me spend far more than i should on games. Also games which i pirated now have sequels on the PS3, which I've bought.
so yeah, I stole a whole lot of PS2 games but they essentially worked as adverts for their PS3 sequels.
Also the fact that myself and 4 of my friends had modded PS2's which allowed us topirate, I'm assuming this practice was widespread, and PS2 gaming didn't die because of it.
Epic, make better games perhaps?
I played every game i had any vague interest in.
...A generation on and my console is all legit, but I still buy any game that i have any vague interest in, just rather than download it, I actually buy it.
So yeah, pirating got me into the mindset of "too much time, not enough games" which makes me spend far more than i should on games. Also games which i pirated now have sequels on the PS3, which I've bought.
so yeah, I stole a whole lot of PS2 games but they essentially worked as adverts for their PS3 sequels.
Also the fact that myself and 4 of my friends had modded PS2's which allowed us topirate, I'm assuming this practice was widespread, and PS2 gaming didn't die because of it.
Epic, make better games perhaps?
Locke. It wasn't so long ago that Pirating PC games was more marginalised and only available to the most dedicated. With the boost in intenet capabilities and download speeds, pirating grew into a monster that has brought PC gaming to its knees. You can pretend otherwise, but I've seen it dry up in front of me, I've seen the PC game department in every shop shrink and shrink and shrink to the point where some stores only sell old budget titles. And, of course, I've seen DRM stick in the knife and give it a good old twist.
I'm passionate about this because it fucks me off, not because I'm some sort of troll.
I'm passionate about this because it fucks me off, not because I'm some sort of troll.
Magnalon - Indeed, but then you look at the numbers in sales percentage, and even if a 360 game is pirated 10 times more than the PC version, the percentage of lost sales is way higher and more damaging for the PC.
Chocs. Again, you are comparing PS2 sales to PC sales which are in different leagues entirely. If you have a small cake and take a chunk out of it you're left with an even smaller cake. If you have a fucking huge cake, and you take a chunk out of it, you're still left with a fucking huge cake.
Oh and Epic make very good games - stop with the flaming ;o)
Oh and Epic make very good games - stop with the flaming ;o)
@ChaosTeaCup: "It wasn't so long ago that Pirating PC games was more marginalized and only available to the most dedicated."
it wasn't so long ago that PC games, period, were available only to the dedicated. Even though it is easier to pirate than ever, the industry is also larger than it ever has been, with a lower barrier to entry than its ever been. I remember having to screw around with command lines in DOS to get the original quake to run right, because it didn't work right with windows 95. nowadays, you just buy it from steam and don't even have to mess with installing it into the correct folder, or installers that couldn't work with your disc drive because it wasn't mounted as drive D!
it wasn't so long ago that PC games, period, were available only to the dedicated. Even though it is easier to pirate than ever, the industry is also larger than it ever has been, with a lower barrier to entry than its ever been. I remember having to screw around with command lines in DOS to get the original quake to run right, because it didn't work right with windows 95. nowadays, you just buy it from steam and don't even have to mess with installing it into the correct folder, or installers that couldn't work with your disc drive because it wasn't mounted as drive D!
If you make a good game, people will buy it. I feel the reason for the rise in piracy over the last 5-7 years is due to developers caring more about quantity than quality.
It's been proven time and time again, if you release a good game for PC people will buy it.
It's been proven time and time again, if you release a good game for PC people will buy it.
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