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I've played games where my character gets his head cut off with a chainsaw. I've played games where my character dies in a nuclear explosion. I've played games where my character is horribly tortured by a psychopath. How is a "attempted" rape scene worse than this?
@Rammstein
You are a grade A douchebag. God forbid people give a damn about their hobby. Perhaps you should go out and do some good instead of bitching at people for caring about things.
You are a grade A douchebag. God forbid people give a damn about their hobby. Perhaps you should go out and do some good instead of bitching at people for caring about things.
@Rammstein
I don't make videogames because I spend my work-hours studying medicine and working at trauma- and psychiatric wards. And in that capacity I have seen rape victims. It is a f***ing serious thing, and treating it like this cool, grimdark thing you can throw in to make a female character more deep or convincing is pretty much the furthest thing from being mature.
I don't make videogames because I spend my work-hours studying medicine and working at trauma- and psychiatric wards. And in that capacity I have seen rape victims. It is a f***ing serious thing, and treating it like this cool, grimdark thing you can throw in to make a female character more deep or convincing is pretty much the furthest thing from being mature.
"I have my doubts that videogames are ready to depict rape (or even suggest it)."
Silent Hill 2.
Have you ever played video games? After reading your past few articles, I'm having a hard time taking you seriously as a game blogger. I'm not normally one to dislike a particular bt a lot of your articles seem ignorant of all but the latest games.
Silent Hill 2.
Have you ever played video games? After reading your past few articles, I'm having a hard time taking you seriously as a game blogger. I'm not normally one to dislike a particular bt a lot of your articles seem ignorant of all but the latest games.
Pen Jillete says some pretty interesting things regarding digital rape in this video.
I hope that the developers handle it well, and the game turns out fine. I think it's a bit too early to jump on them completely until we see more.
I hope that the developers handle it well, and the game turns out fine. I think it's a bit too early to jump on them completely until we see more.
I feel like I'm watching the great serpent of internet hype slowly consume its own tail. The devs produce outrage, the message boards provide fuel for the fire, the name of the game gets repeatedly so hard and so often that it finally penetrates the consumer consciousness through brute force alone. And that's how games are made profitable in our day and age. I seriously feel like we should get paid advertising dollars for commenting on this kind of thing because clearly, we are doing someone's job for them.
@Talon
I can't answer you that. You could say people try to shield such things and hide it despite its a real thing that happens daily, like murder and such. I don't know.
I was just giving you an answer that rape is definitely a horrible crime or "really bad" like you asked.
As for attempted rape scenes, I've seen plenty of games that allude to rape. I can't say if this game literally has a man state, "I'm gonna rape ya."
Either way, I don't feel like attempted rapes in games are a new thing.
I can't answer you that. You could say people try to shield such things and hide it despite its a real thing that happens daily, like murder and such. I don't know.
I was just giving you an answer that rape is definitely a horrible crime or "really bad" like you asked.
As for attempted rape scenes, I've seen plenty of games that allude to rape. I can't say if this game literally has a man state, "I'm gonna rape ya."
Either way, I don't feel like attempted rapes in games are a new thing.
Wow. I don't think I have ever been so surprised by the Dtoid community than I have been with this post. The upside is that about half of those responding have made it clear that they should be chemically castrated.
The point here is the inclusion of rape in this game isnt't about the character, it only highlights the industry's completely fucked up views on women in video games. The threat of rape isn't remotely necessary for there to be serious tension in the game. Simply put, we have never heard Otakon warn Snake that he would be raped at gunpoint if he is caught.
Fucking boo on CD for being so clueless, I will be passing on this game if they keep playing up this route.
The point here is the inclusion of rape in this game isnt't about the character, it only highlights the industry's completely fucked up views on women in video games. The threat of rape isn't remotely necessary for there to be serious tension in the game. Simply put, we have never heard Otakon warn Snake that he would be raped at gunpoint if he is caught.
Fucking boo on CD for being so clueless, I will be passing on this game if they keep playing up this route.
"Tomb Raper".
Seriously, a character doesn't need to be raped to add depth to their backstory. People just use it because it has shock value and evokes strong emotional backlash. It's cheap and lazy. Also, it's not just a female thing to have a character start off as whiny and useless. They just do it to show obvious development. I think it's completely possible but more difficult to make a character somewhat of a bad-ass to begin with and still show significant development.
Also, I don't like the concept of "rape culture". It's one of those things where you can probably find it anywhere if you look for it, much like "homosexual undertones". It's like suggesting that media with these elements will make people will go out and rape or become homosexual. How many people do we see actually doing that? Virtually nobody? Yet how much social unrest is caused when people actively fear each other because they expect media such as video games to strongly influence criminal activity? At times, it's gotten to a point where if you so much as admit you play video games, people will assume that you're a psychotic shotgun-wielding rapist murderer.
These kinds of shallow general assumptions and random finger-pointing generates fear and distrust of each other, and distracts from the real issues, such as actual childhood trauma and abuse.
Seriously, a character doesn't need to be raped to add depth to their backstory. People just use it because it has shock value and evokes strong emotional backlash. It's cheap and lazy. Also, it's not just a female thing to have a character start off as whiny and useless. They just do it to show obvious development. I think it's completely possible but more difficult to make a character somewhat of a bad-ass to begin with and still show significant development.
Also, I don't like the concept of "rape culture". It's one of those things where you can probably find it anywhere if you look for it, much like "homosexual undertones". It's like suggesting that media with these elements will make people will go out and rape or become homosexual. How many people do we see actually doing that? Virtually nobody? Yet how much social unrest is caused when people actively fear each other because they expect media such as video games to strongly influence criminal activity? At times, it's gotten to a point where if you so much as admit you play video games, people will assume that you're a psychotic shotgun-wielding rapist murderer.
These kinds of shallow general assumptions and random finger-pointing generates fear and distrust of each other, and distracts from the real issues, such as actual childhood trauma and abuse.
Just perusing the comments makes me certain that video games and particularly their fans have little ability to tackle an issue like rape maturely.
There is nothing controversial about an intervieweee suggesting players will find themselves more naturally protective of a sexually predated (and therefore a more vulnerable) protagonist.
@Complete Global Saturation
I don't think you should be using the example of people "becoming homosexual" alongside raping someone and other "criminal activity".
I don't think you should be using the example of people "becoming homosexual" alongside raping someone and other "criminal activity".
Wasn't this shown in the E3 trailer? As long as it makes sense in the context of the story and there isn't an attempted rape minigame every few fights, Then the part in the trailer is fine by me. BTW people make noises when they move, especially when exerting themselves, even more when they are tired and worn out.
I can't believe the devs are seriously suggesting that murderous, sociopathic mercenaries could also be potential rapists. Disgusting.
So i guess people didnt watch the E3 trailer when it showed that guy feeling her up then going in for the rape then she kneed him in the nuts then blew his brains out.
oh well
oh well
Of course there's a great chance that it could be handled poorly, but you have to admit that it at least seems to make sense in the context of the game.
@NoMoneyLeftBoy
True, but how do you convince me that this is a strong character if that protective instinct overtakes anything else I feel for the character? Which seems to be what he's suggesting in the interview.
True, but how do you convince me that this is a strong character if that protective instinct overtakes anything else I feel for the character? Which seems to be what he's suggesting in the interview.
What bothers me about this whole kerfuffle is how over the top reactions are over something that's been barely shown IMO basically because this happens in a videogame.
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo depicted a pretty graphic rape scene last year, Monica Belluci did a pretty harsh one too in Irreversible and let's not even bring Dakota Fanning (a child actor back then) doing one in Hounddog yet any of those didn't get such a strong negative reaction as this one (which so far has been barely discussed at this point). ¿Why the difference? ¿why do keep paying attention to people that attack videogames over stuff that's mostly in their minds and that is depicted far more often and clearly in other media? this is no different than the RE5 racism claims, whether it was out of ignorance of to draw attention to their cause in a cheap way is irrelevant because whatever the case we are taking them all too damn seriously as if they'd give us the same courtesy instead of just using videogames as their eternal whipping boy.
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo depicted a pretty graphic rape scene last year, Monica Belluci did a pretty harsh one too in Irreversible and let's not even bring Dakota Fanning (a child actor back then) doing one in Hounddog yet any of those didn't get such a strong negative reaction as this one (which so far has been barely discussed at this point). ¿Why the difference? ¿why do keep paying attention to people that attack videogames over stuff that's mostly in their minds and that is depicted far more often and clearly in other media? this is no different than the RE5 racism claims, whether it was out of ignorance of to draw attention to their cause in a cheap way is irrelevant because whatever the case we are taking them all too damn seriously as if they'd give us the same courtesy instead of just using videogames as their eternal whipping boy.
@EdgyDude Read the article maybe, Jim mentions a couple of those films here, but it is OK to have doubts about it, not only because the dev is shouting about it like an exciting selling point. So far that is the difference, and it's a shambolic one.
how do you die if you fail wouldnt their be a r rated rape scene?
anyway this explains all the VA that is all gasps and moans
anyway this explains all the VA that is all gasps and moans
I disagree, in the past trailer they implied rape was part of what enemies in the game might attempt. Simply ignoring how attractive the character and what these men may logical do with her is more irresponsible. I haven't seen any evidence that Crystal Dynamics wouldn't this the utmost care. I mean have claimed Lara's moan of pain seem sexual but it's no different then how believe Nathan Drake would react to this kind of punishment.
I don't think games are able to handle the rape subject in a mature manner yet. what was the last game that dealt with rape? Edmund? No thanks.
Does the producer go into why they chose such lackluster and awful graphics, and what seems to be jerky and intensely been-there-done-that gameplay?
@Shinta
"Just play the game and then judge.
Sensationalist stories like this are why no developers talk without a script. Gotcha journalism. You got him. Way to go buddy. Speaking of treating things with respect ..."
You win the internet, discussion over. This is the correct response.
"Just play the game and then judge.
Sensationalist stories like this are why no developers talk without a script. Gotcha journalism. You got him. Way to go buddy. Speaking of treating things with respect ..."
You win the internet, discussion over. This is the correct response.
@Clance: i did read the article, those examples may be the "good" depictions of the subject at hand, but it also implies there have been "bad" ones too, my point is that at least other media have been given the green light to make those attempts despite the results being good or bad, videogames though? it's a shitstorm for even thinking about the chance to give it a shot, worse even, who makes that shitstorm we all pay attention to? idiots or people with agendas, even worse still? a part of the gamer community actually supports them.
The really pathetic part is that people love to whine at the homogenization of videogames, how with each year and every new release it's more like CoD and fewer risks and chances are taken, yet a large section of the community we doesn't waste half a second to support any claim against trying something different.
As long as we keep doing this, as long as we back down from even trying at the first sign of some idiot having an adverse opinion videogames will never really mature as a media.
The really pathetic part is that people love to whine at the homogenization of videogames, how with each year and every new release it's more like CoD and fewer risks and chances are taken, yet a large section of the community we doesn't waste half a second to support any claim against trying something different.
As long as we keep doing this, as long as we back down from even trying at the first sign of some idiot having an adverse opinion videogames will never really mature as a media.
DID NO ONE ELSE SEE THAT FAR CRY 3 DEMO AT E3??? We don't need games to cross certain lines, in my opinion. But if they do, it should only be a prelude to the rapist being killed extremely slowly and painfully. There is no excuse to glorify behavior like that, especially in games.
The threat of sexual violence is a nightmare for any woman. To convey that sense of terror in a video game is a something not to be taken lightly nor should it be a talking point to punch up a game. I think telling Lara's story from the point of survival and escaping not only death but sexual violence could really add a new dimension to the character and make the story something gut-wrenching and gripping. To see her embrace her fear in this awful situation and rise above it could be a story worth telling and participating in. I will wait to see the final product to see how it is portrayed.
Oh, and some of the comments here make me sad and dismayed. There's a real dialogue to be had here.
Oh, and some of the comments here make me sad and dismayed. There's a real dialogue to be had here.
@EdgyDude
Just curious, but what do you consider Tomb Raider innovating or taking risks in?
If you think it's the rape, that is one of the most common story telling tropes for 'weak female -> strong female characters'... There isn't anything that I think that they are really 'innovating' (it... looks a lot like Uncharted at this stage) but, what do you think?
Just curious, but what do you consider Tomb Raider innovating or taking risks in?
If you think it's the rape, that is one of the most common story telling tropes for 'weak female -> strong female characters'... There isn't anything that I think that they are really 'innovating' (it... looks a lot like Uncharted at this stage) but, what do you think?
Lara is an attractive woman surrounded by sociopathic murderers. I think the idea that they WOULDN'T try to sexually assault her is more ludicrous an idea than them not trying to. The medium needs to mature, and tackling ideas such as this is definitely one aspect that should be explored. But with that said, the way it was revealed as a "selling point" of sorts was definitely the wrong thing to do, and I can definitely see why some people are upset over the statement; it cheapens the emotion and weight of the situation.
But we need to explore ideas like this. This might be done extremely poorly, it might be overshadowed by a proceeding scene that has you shooting a tiger in the face, you might be a murdering female-Rambo 20 minutes later. But the point is that we try these things; that we push the boundaries. To cry that it should not be done is to condemn the medium to a lifetime of prepubescence.
To the people AGAINST this, how do you feel about the fact that we glorify murder in almost every single game that is released? We revel in the ways we get to kill people. Every few months a game is announced with new ways for us to murder people. Games like COD have you stabbing people in the heart, shooting them in the face, drowning them, and so on. It's not tasteful at all, but I don't see you rushing to defend war veterans or families of murder victims. Murder is just as serious a crime as rape.
Yes, it would be great if we could have nothing but masterpieces of art that treat every subject with care, and translate the feelings and emotions they are trying to portray, but that isn't reality. It doesn't happen. This game might treat the subject badly, but if it does it will be a stepping stone to somebody giving it the proper amount of attention later in the mediums life. An example of how NOT to do things. We learn by progressing, not by stagnating.
But we need to explore ideas like this. This might be done extremely poorly, it might be overshadowed by a proceeding scene that has you shooting a tiger in the face, you might be a murdering female-Rambo 20 minutes later. But the point is that we try these things; that we push the boundaries. To cry that it should not be done is to condemn the medium to a lifetime of prepubescence.
To the people AGAINST this, how do you feel about the fact that we glorify murder in almost every single game that is released? We revel in the ways we get to kill people. Every few months a game is announced with new ways for us to murder people. Games like COD have you stabbing people in the heart, shooting them in the face, drowning them, and so on. It's not tasteful at all, but I don't see you rushing to defend war veterans or families of murder victims. Murder is just as serious a crime as rape.
Yes, it would be great if we could have nothing but masterpieces of art that treat every subject with care, and translate the feelings and emotions they are trying to portray, but that isn't reality. It doesn't happen. This game might treat the subject badly, but if it does it will be a stepping stone to somebody giving it the proper amount of attention later in the mediums life. An example of how NOT to do things. We learn by progressing, not by stagnating.
@ Occams - Eh, yeah, I can see how there's a dialogue to be had. And I'm not against the actual game content either. I'm just kind of put off by this trend I think I see forming, where shock value and controversy replace anything of actual substance. It's like nobody even wants to make a good game any more, everything is just "let's troll the gamers into advertising for us".
Plus I've been up all night and should probably get some sleep. Yep. That too.
Plus I've been up all night and should probably get some sleep. Yep. That too.
Obviously people have some strong and fighting opinions on this topic, but can we all agree that a moderator needs to do something about Gorelord? He's just making disgusting and inflammatory comments that do nothing to stimulate intelligent discussion, and are not even the tiniest bit witty.
There's already a place on the internet for garbage like that; it's called 4chan.
There's already a place on the internet for garbage like that; it's called 4chan.
No Opinicus, I can't agree with that at all. I don't think he's funny either but if the simple act of your eyes moving across words upsets you so much, you've got bigger problems than comments on the internet. No reason to punish anyone for your own hair trigger.
@Sir Legendhead Yeah, I hate that "look at this shocking thing!" that games sometimes do when selling themselves. Think that you can bring that added dimension of the threat of sexual violence into Lara's story without making it a bullet point or coming off as being daring or edgy. Just hope that this will be done well (not the right word but hope my point is conveyed) and not just something this guy is saying to get some hype. Guess we shall see. Get some sleep. I hear that helps.
It's a dicey prospect at best. Try as they might to change it, Laura Croft was long symbolic of the over-the-top objectification of women in games. The company is now beating its chest that, basically, "Hey guys, after many years, she's more than a set of breasts a carefully scuplted butt to watch on screen! Aren't we progressive"? So, with that kind of legacy, introducing rape is kind of a minefield. Obviously it all depends on how it's treated, but if it even suggest a bit of titilation it's going to be pretty awful. If men trying to assault her turns into an excuse to get her running around with more of her clothes ripped off (See the Star Wars prequel where Princess Lia's dress just "happened" to have it's stomach ripped out to make a half shirt), for instance, then they're using the subject exploitatively. We'll see, maybe they will handle it well. But considering the history of Laura Croft and expoitation.... ugh. Maybe baby steps here, guys?
Lara croft did not need to be raped or tried to be raped in order to become "real" or "powerful." She was an independently wealthy woman, was she not? She was also already strong, courageous, and intrepid. Did we need "also raped" checked off in the list to legitimize her?
To put it in perspective for some who are evidently sick enough to mistake rape as something sexy... Men and boys also fall victim to rape, sexual abuse, maiming and violence... Sexual assault and sexual abuse are not exclusive to women. Envision that and give it some consideration before spouting off like idiots about how sexy it is. Or imagine it were your mother, still sexy?
At least in Tomb Raider, Lara will kill all the perpetrators. Sadly, I don't necessarily see that happening in the case of Far Cry 3, etc.
At least in Tomb Raider, Lara will kill all the perpetrators. Sadly, I don't necessarily see that happening in the case of Far Cry 3, etc.
To put it in perspective for some who are evidently sick enough to mistake rape as something sexy... Men and boys also fall victim to rape, sexual abuse, maiming and violence... Sexual assault and sexual abuse are not exclusive to women. Envision that and give it some consideration before spouting off like idiots about how sexy it is. Or imagine it were your mother, still sexy?
At least in Tomb Raider, Lara will kill all the perpetrators. Sadly, I don't necessarily see that happening in the case of Far Cry 3, etc.
At least in Tomb Raider, Lara will kill all the perpetrators. Sadly, I don't necessarily see that happening in the case of Far Cry 3, etc.
This game sounds like it's going to be pretty harrowing. Color me interested. I like seeing characters drag themselves from the depths of insurmountable odds. I'm choosing to ignore the over-analysis and just enjoy the game. This is no less ridiculous than the shitstorm we were forced to endure with racism in RE5.
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