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Eidos: Used games have no benefit to publishers photo

No sh*t?

Eidos life president Ian Livingstone has attacked the pre-owned sales market, becoming one in a long line of people who have suddenly decided capitalism is bad, despite all the exploitation they've done of the very same market. He believes used games are a serious issue and that something needs to be done. 

"The pre-owned market is a serious problem, because there is no benefit to developers or publishers," he explains. "A shop makes a bigger margin on a pre-owned title, and can sell them six or seven times, so there is no incentive for them to reorder and the content creator gets no slice of the action."

Lingstone notes, however, that retail chains are still crucial: "These aren't just shops, they are a marketing tool, a window into our world where software houses can display their wares."

Most publishes don't care about their consumers, often going so far as to show contempt, so why should consumers care about publishers? It amuses me how companies will be as cutthroat and ruthless as they like, yet balk and cry when a retail outlet decided to be equally as cuthroat and ruthless.

Maybe when we consumers get a guarantee that our sixty dollars will actually get us a game worth sixty dollars, I'll pull out a little violin for those poor, poor publishers.


Continue: More second-hand games are evil stories





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47 comments | showing # 1 to 47

Usedtabe's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:17
Usedtabe
Amen, Jim. Give us a game worth our $60, then you can bitch. Til then ,STFU.
jackburnt's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:21
jackburnt
That's why I love Gamefly. I can rent the games I want to try, and keep the ones worth keeping.

Hell, I bought Madden new from them for 43 bucks. How can I do that anywhere else?

I wish it was cheaper though. But I'm a cheapskate.
Xzyliac's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:21
Xzyliac
Jim with the exception of Bayonetta do you ever get a story that makes you smile?
Magnalon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:23
Magnalon
It's heartbreaking to me that many publishers/developers simply aren't AWARE that a great deal of their games suck dick.

When they bitch about not doing so well in the industry, I rage a lil' bit.
garison's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:26
garison
The more stories you write on this subject, the more frustrated I become.
Kalakaua's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:28
Kalakaua
Lower the price of software and people may purchase new software more often, more money for them and retail still makes a cut. Raise it as Bobby Kotick jokes and you guarantee the increase the problem.
Losari's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:28
Losari
Is it really that difficult to make a game that's actually worth $60?
Brass's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:29
Brass
Digital distribution, downloadable content (free), lowering prices and bundling old games are all strategies Valve uses to squeeze every cent out of games in the best possible way. Maybe if publishers took some notes.
Br0th3rGr1mm's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:32
Br0th3rGr1mm
I see all of his complaints as 100% valid...I just can't bring myself to give a shyte. Come up with a creative way to get customers to buy new games instead of used games and quit bitching about something you can't control.
-PL-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:39
-PL-
Maybe they should make their games worth keeping.
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:43
Super Drybones
Quick question for everyone here, What exactly would a game have to do to be considered "worth sixty dollars"

Simply saying we need a game worth it without any explanation of what that means is well.....meaningless.
Sam Spectre's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:46
Sam Spectre
Can you please stop posting stories about this? It's capitalism, nobody wants to hear the publishers bitch anymore so stop giving them a soap box to stand on.
dj-anon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:48
dj-anon
@Super Drybones:

Read the comment before yours.
Paviel's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:53
Paviel
In my opinion, Nintendo has a pretty clever way of encouraging the sale of new games: All first party games have registration codes that are only valid once, and if you register enough games, you can redeem your "coins" for some items. Granted, only a Nintendo fan would care about what Club Nintendo has to offer, but imagine if every game developer/publisher did this... Even though I generally don't care for Microsoft and Sony, imagine if there was a Club Microsoft or a Club Sony...

Unless such things already exist...
smurfee mcgee's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:58
smurfee mcgee
They only give a fuck about our money. Unfortunately, we give a fuck about our money, too.
It's just cheaper to get used games. Very simple.
Used CDs. DVDs, etc. It's the same thing. The only thing you can do is make everyone believe you have a product worth purchasing at full price. You know, quality. Even then, not everyone will buy at full price. That's just how it is, especially in this "recession."
Maybe it's time for you to change products. Maybe it's time for to go fully digital. Maybe it's time for you to shut the fuck up and try harder.
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 15:59
brainderailment
The balls on this guy.
Jawshey's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:02
Jawshey
Why not compete against the Used market? Instead of bitching or eradicating it, why not lower prices or give incentives. Like the Halo 3 Beta for ODST/Crackdown, or the golden Lancer for Gears Of War 2. THINK!
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:06
Super Drybones
@Djnx
The comment "Maybe they should make their games worth keeping." is like saying "They should make their games better" its to generic, I meant like actual points, like saying "Having DLC every few months to make trading in a game not so alluring" or "More post Campaign levels to make the player keep coming back"
JDigital's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:06
JDigital
Great picture!

I'm expecting DRM on consoles here shortly. Where we get the faggotry that is "leasing" the "right" to play the game.

I'll be happy though, means I wont have to buy so many games... and I'm one of the suckers that buys everything brand new within a week of its release. I've bought like 1 game used this generation, and it is because they were actually out of new copies.
Blue Odeyssey's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:07
Blue Odeyssey
They treat us like shit, we treat them like shit, thats the cycle of the games industry, Enjoy!!
whormongr's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:10
whormongr
the used market does give back to the form of the publishers in the form of DLC and sales on subsequent sequels- the fact that I am a ps3 guy though means that publishers lose my $ because they want to sign exclusive DLC all of the time wit MS- your loss, don't blame me for it
Turbofail's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:18
Turbofail
God help us if they ever find out about ebay. The sound of their collective scream will crack the planet in half.
dj-anon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:29
dj-anon
@Super Drybones: It is a generic comment because, because tastes are subjective. I may see value in a game you don't. However making short single player campaigns with a tried story, with gameplay borrowed from everywhere, repetitive level design, and lack of support for the online community, if applicable, makes most people hesitate and just rent or buy used. For example, take a look at a game like Dark Void, just by watching the trailer and the gameplay videos, would you dare to spend $60 bucks on it? And remember that in any other country than the US, the price is actually higher,
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:31
Timmeh
I'm having a hard time figuring out who is further removed from the general public: game developers and publishers or politicians.

The video game development industry is laughable. Instead of looking at ways to reduce towering development costs they simply try to fuck their customers over a little more than they already are.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:36
Elsa
Ummm... where's captain obvious when you need him??
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:40
Occams electric toothbrush
I love used games.
Yehat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:41
Yehat
@Timmeh

If I could get a big internet red pen and circle your post over and over again I would because you hit the bloody nail on the head. We desperately need to cut down on development costs because it has a good chance to run out of control in tandem with pay DLC.

Even Warren Spector suggested a couple years ago that 20-30 dollars was what most games these days should cost but can't because they cost too blasted much to just make.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:43
Qraze
those greedy fucks are just gonna have to deal with it, just like the auto industry, clothing industry, furniture industry and about every other industry. if they don't want people to buy used games they need to give us an incentive besides shitty preorder game music cds. and this is fuctwat eidos saying this as well, make a game that's actually good and maybe, just maybe people will buy it brand new.

they cannot make me not buy something used. they will not because I won't let them tell me what i can or cannot do, they are the ones in the realm of can or cannot do.
Hcapt's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:44
Hcapt
Once a consumer purchases a video game, he has the right to do what he pleases with it (as long as he doesn't break copyright law), as it is now the property of the consumer, and not EIDOS.

No one complains about the used car market or the used DVD market. I suppose he'll complain about how game rentals steal sales too.
-PL-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:52
-PL-
There are many ways to make a game worth keeping. Take Fallout3, for example, and its downloadable content. If someone buys all of the expansions for it, they're probably a lot less likely to trade it back in. On top of that, they keep getting new gameplay experiences out of the same game through the DLC.

Another example would be something like Killzone 2, or Street Fighter 4, or any other game with fun online play. If you love playing online, and you're required to have the game disc to continue playing online, you're more likely to keep the game.

What has Eidos released lately that's really worth keeping? They just keep pumping out Tomb Raider and Hitman games. If they released more games that people wanted to hang onto, maybe they wouldn't be bitching so much.
8-bit disaster's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 16:53
8-bit disaster
these guys (game industry) never learn...
John B's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 17:01
John B
$60 games that piss off the buyer or don't offer what a $60 game should have no benefit to consumers!

It's amazing how that works.
free touch's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 17:09
free touch
I don't get it... they want to be paid twice for one game? Used game sales is as old as gaming itself. I remember growing up, going to fleamarkets and getting atari games for $.50-$1.00. Used sales aren't hurting people... if anything, it gets more people interested in gaming.

Although, I think the pricing at gamestop is downright outrageous too.

I think if Gamestop would sell used games cheaper than MSRP-$5,, I think things would be a bit smoother.
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 17:11
Super Drybones
@ Djnx
Exactly correct, so in reality no game is worth 60 to everyone
TripleZer0's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 17:20
TripleZer0
The problem is that publishers don't want to admit that some of their games aren't worth the $60 price tag. I mean, who wants to admit that something a team of people spent the last two years working overtime on ended up being a giant sack of shit?

But at the same time, I have no sympathy for them when the publishers make statements like this. I pretty much buy all my games used because I cannot afford the new ones. If I had to pay full retail, I'd only be able to buy maybe 1 or 2 games a year. (If that.)
Ronsauce's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 17:21
Ronsauce
Stop being a bitch Drybones. There's nothing wrong with saying that games should be 'worth' $60...or even saying games should be better. It's not like Jim was attempting to give actual constructive criticism to developers. I don't understand how you don't seem to be for better games...regardless of how they are better. Communist.
carg0's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 18:20
carg0
the publishers have absolutely no right whatsoever to complain since it's their own fault, charging $60 per title. this kind of thing (seconhand market) doesn't come to be "just because".

the solution is and has always been right in front of them: LOWER SOFTWARE PRICES.

they not only have refused the solution but have exacerbated the problem by actually increasing the MSRP by $10. so the used-game market will continue to thrive to the continued detriment of the industry. *shrug*
worm jerky's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 18:41
worm jerky
..."A serious problem" for YOU - not for me. And I don't care about your problems. I care about playing games and the cheaper, the better. So tired of hearing them all whine. Wait, i'm whining. See what they did to me!
HiddenAHB's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 18:49
HiddenAHB
It's not my fault that a game costs R$240(US$120) here.
So it's not my fault if i buy used.
mgmgarcia01's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 18:58
mgmgarcia01
Ive gopt no problem with the prices. Yes, I'd love them to be cheaper but, we pay what we do, and I've come to live with that. But fuck off with "publisher should get a cut of used sales" type shit. I sold some things on eBay. Yeah i should totally get some of the money if that guy sells it again... Asshat.
How many times would a house change hands? Do builders bitch and moan?
D-503's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 18:58
D-503
I didn't know that the second hand shops I visited were cut throat OR ruthless. Thanks a lot Half Price Books, you greedy scum!!!
SovietMudkipz's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 19:29
SovietMudkipz
That baby has the grossest fingers ever. They look like shriveled caterpillars.
Doos's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 20:50
Doos
I've mentioned this a couple of times now, but Batman: Arkham Asylum is retailing at Wal-Mart and Best Buy (In Canada) for $38.83. This is a game published by Eidos.

Whether or not they're in control of that pricing.. I don't know.. But I do know that it's the first time I've seen a price that low for a new release.

Especially one that looks and plays as well as B:AA. (In my opinion.)
Wolfrider's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 21:16
Wolfrider
I love that the response to this is "Make a game that's worth our sixty bucks and then I'll care." How exactly is that going to happen? Want something original? Daring? Something that's outside of the mainstream? Pffftttt... good luck. If companies can't make their money back on games that they KNOW are going to be successful then they sure as hell aren't going to be taking any chances with anything original.

No, gamers, you are responsible for the success and failure of this industry and if you refuse to pay for games in a way that benefits the publishers and developers then those publishers can't make games. Ergo, you have less games (and less interesting ones) to play. Good on you though! Keep sticking it to the man!

And no publisher cares about used sales person to person or on ebay. What publishers are talking about when they say used sales is the GameStop/EB paradigm where all the used games are front and center, they under stock (and open) new games to devalue them, and then, after choosing to buy a new copy, the store tries to upsell the consumer to a used game (which means for 5 dollars less the publisher sees no money from the transaction) . That, dear friends is a problem. And no other industry has to deal with that. There are used CD stores, used movie shops, and used bookstores but neither the music industry, the film industry, or the publishing industry has to deal with its primary retail outlets competing with them. If they did those industries would bury those stores.

But hey guys! Thanks for guaranteeing me another 4600 God of War, Gears of War, and Babes of War clones. Huzzah! Capitalism for the WIN!
Hcapt's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 21:37
Hcapt
@Wolfrider

Like it or not, that wouldn't be an issue at all if the games were actually worth keeping after their first playthrough. Do you know why games like Mario Kart Wii, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, Mario Kart DS, and New Super Mario Bros. hit the top ten years after their release? It's because Nintendo makes products that either people do not want to sell back or do not have as much value to the customer used.

Not only is gaming following the cinema model, it's doing such a poor job of cinematic mastery in gaming that the market place is flooded with unwanted titles merely 3 weeks after a game's release. And it would be insane to simply remove all those unwanted titles from the market when there are large numbers of people who demand games for a cheaper price than that at which most games are sold. It is much better that the games be returned to the market than simply be thrown away or go unused.
zanthox's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/20/2009 23:58
zanthox
I say we outlaw all used sales. Ebay should be illegal. Used car dealerships burned down and any house that goes back onto the market destroyed.
silvain's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/21/2009 11:33
silvain
Used games currently bankroll the $60 price tag, pure and simple.

There is a significant audience who buys the game at $60 and trades it at ~$30-40. They spend $20-30 a game. The people who then buy it at $40-50 can generally sell it at ~$20. They are paying about $20-30 a game, most of the time. So there aren't that many people in the food chain paying $60 for a product, and the publishers are in for a severely rude awakening if they try to disrupt this supply chain.
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