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We're still talking about this game's bosses? People need to get over it. They were tough. You had to shoot them. Big deal.
I certainly wasn't angry about the boss fights or anything, but I did find them to stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of that fucking amazing game. If there was a weak link in the chain, it's hard to argue that the boss fights weren't it.
That having been said, it was easily overlooked.
That having been said, it was easily overlooked.
*sigh* The bosses were fine. Everything you needed to beat them was placed in the rooms with them. Like I said before, the only real problem with this game was that they scrapped the skills system in favor of just using augs.
It was silly that the bosses were the ONE part of the game where you had to do something a certain way, but I thought it was sort of a good thing because it created a universal experience everyone's character had to do, no matter their build type.
It made the toughness of playing pure stealth even harder than it was and it made the badassness of just blasting people away at every chance even more cool when you could drop a boss in a couple seconds.
It made the toughness of playing pure stealth even harder than it was and it made the badassness of just blasting people away at every chance even more cool when you could drop a boss in a couple seconds.
They weren't that bad, they just didn't fit the game very well considering how much it was about choice. Besides it was a great game anyway!
Imho the real issue with the boss fights and the real reason people even started to complain about them forcing them to be played in a certain way was that the fights were simply overtuned in their difficulty - this meant that a stealthy character without combat augs would find them very hard, a situation where the entire rest of the game allowed and encouraged you to find alternatives, whereas the boss fights were fight or die situations. Since they admit on knowing the boss fights were an issue they should've simply made them half as hard, and people would've beat them on the first try and moved on, instead of failing for half an hour and then raging on on the internet about it for the rest of the night.
Imho the real issue with the boss fights, and the real reason people even started to complain about them forcing shooter gameplay down their throats was that the fights were simply overtuned in their difficulty - this meant that a stealthy character without combat augs would find them very hard, a situation where the entire rest of the game allowed and encouraged you to find alternatives, whereas the boss fights were fight or die situations. Since they admit on knowing the boss fights were an issue they should've simply made them half as hard, and people would've beat them on the first try and moved on, instead of failing for half an hour and then raging on on the internet about it for the rest of the night.
They weren't awful. They just did not fit the rest of the game at all.
Still, I don't understand how so many people had trouble beating them. Except for maybe the first, they were totally easy.
Still, I don't understand how so many people had trouble beating them. Except for maybe the first, they were totally easy.
The bosses shouldn't have been that hard for a stealth-based character if one ignores the more useless stealth augs in favor of combat augs.
They were out of character with the rest of the game, but at least the rest of the game was top notch. It's nice to see them acknowledge the criticism though.
It was definitely the weakest part of the game. They should have added an element of stealth to some of the battles.
Or better yet, the game would determine your biggest strength or weakness from your character's build and design around that. Completely changing the battle on just the build.
Spamming Typhoon ammo is not fun.
Or better yet, the game would determine your biggest strength or weakness from your character's build and design around that. Completely changing the battle on just the build.
Spamming Typhoon ammo is not fun.
The boss fights just felt out of place, if you'd spec'd for stealth and hacking you were boned. I had to load a previous save to get past the first boss, because I didn't have the weapons to take him down. I ended up picking up loads of grenades and other explosives.
The original Deus Ex still had confrontations, they weren't explicitly called "boss fights" but there were still three enemies you had to confront. However, things like the kill switches rewarded stealthy/hacker gameplay and fitted in a little better into the game.
The original Deus Ex still had confrontations, they weren't explicitly called "boss fights" but there were still three enemies you had to confront. However, things like the kill switches rewarded stealthy/hacker gameplay and fitted in a little better into the game.
How did you spec your character Jim? I had no idea about the boss fights and thusly my character wasn't specced for single combat at all!
Fighting an enemy with a huge amount of HP, on which two VITAL game mechanics, namely takedowns and stealth, don't work and on top of it all: have 0 personality, is something that really ruined the experience for me.
I've just finished the third boss (Stealth meat suit guy that can kill you in one shot with his space gun) and lets just say... it's a good thing I can Quick Save.
Fighting an enemy with a huge amount of HP, on which two VITAL game mechanics, namely takedowns and stealth, don't work and on top of it all: have 0 personality, is something that really ruined the experience for me.
I've just finished the third boss (Stealth meat suit guy that can kill you in one shot with his space gun) and lets just say... it's a good thing I can Quick Save.
How did you spec your character Jim? I had no idea about the boss fights and thusly my character wasn't specced for single combat at all!
Fighting an enemy with a huge amount of HP, on which two VITAL game mechanics, namely takedowns and stealth, don't work and on top of it all: have 0 personality, is something that really ruined the experience for me.
I've just finished the third boss (Stealth meat suit guy that can kill you in one shot with his space gun) and lets just say... it's a good thing I can Quick Save.
Fighting an enemy with a huge amount of HP, on which two VITAL game mechanics, namely takedowns and stealth, don't work and on top of it all: have 0 personality, is something that really ruined the experience for me.
I've just finished the third boss (Stealth meat suit guy that can kill you in one shot with his space gun) and lets just say... it's a good thing I can Quick Save.
Gamers weren't getting 'angry' about it, just raising the point that the bosses really didn't fit and ultimately hurt the game as a whole. One-dimensional boss fights in a game that cultivates choice are jarring.
Sorry for the double post. Just wanted to clarify: by zero personality I mean the lack of a dialogue tree.
They should've done the bosses the way that they did that hispanic (?) hostage taker guy from the first level. You know, with the talking and stuff?
They should've done the bosses the way that they did that hispanic (?) hostage taker guy from the first level. You know, with the talking and stuff?
If anyone remembers, the boss fights in the original Deus Ex were forced. While you had more options other than a straight gunfight, if you didn't do any kind of research, you still had to fight them.
I wouldn't say "angry" but they were definitely my only complaint in the game. Being forced into combat in every one of them, where I was stealth focused...really sucked.
I had to abuse shoddy AI glitches to even beat them, which is just sad in my opinion. That and it seemed like the 2nd bosses "gimmick" was FUBAR to me.
I had to abuse shoddy AI glitches to even beat them, which is just sad in my opinion. That and it seemed like the 2nd bosses "gimmick" was FUBAR to me.
@KingSigy: Actually, you could just run away from a few of them. Or if you knew their kill phrases, there wouldn't be a boss fight.
Didn't mind the boss fights that much, but they could've been more faithful to the Deus Ex style.
Didn't mind the boss fights that much, but they could've been more faithful to the Deus Ex style.
I wasn't angry and I didn't hate the game or care that it wasn't a direct clone of the original, but... Those boss fights were pretty rubbish and completely fucked up the flow of an otherwise stellar game. DE:HR is one of my top games this gen, but I'm not going to pretend that the game is perfect. It's actually far from perfect.
The lack of multiple solutions to the boss fights were their only weakness, in my opinion; They were uncharacteristically more difficult.
Better not show this post to Brad Nicholson. He'll twist your head right off for disagreeing with him.
DXHR's bosses were rubbish 'cause there was only one option on how to deal with them - by killing them. We got it. Now, fix the god damn price of your DLC 'cause it's not worth $15.
Oh Jim, reading your articles is like reading the Fox News of video games. Gotta love that negative statement at the end, which is completely unnecessary. ;)
I'm playing through Human Rev for the first time now, and I've only encountered one boss so far, but that one boss was incredibly frustrating and not fun to play at all. It was quite literally "shoot until dead" with a few explosive barrels thrown in the mix. The thing is, I had been mainly upgrading my legs, hacking, and stealth, and not putting anything into health or anything offensive at all. I was playing this game as a stealth game, not as a shooter, and boss fights that are the traditional set up for a traditional shooter have no place in a game about choice.
I'm playing through Human Rev for the first time now, and I've only encountered one boss so far, but that one boss was incredibly frustrating and not fun to play at all. It was quite literally "shoot until dead" with a few explosive barrels thrown in the mix. The thing is, I had been mainly upgrading my legs, hacking, and stealth, and not putting anything into health or anything offensive at all. I was playing this game as a stealth game, not as a shooter, and boss fights that are the traditional set up for a traditional shooter have no place in a game about choice.
In this day and age of most every console game receiving multiple patches they could like...ya know...fix them.
oh c'mon! I loved the boss fights, were challenging but well balanced, and i was playing with a stealth personality
"if you'd spec'd for stealth and hacking you were boned."
NOT TRUE, with the exception of the 2nd boss.
You can sneak away from the first boss and lob explosive barrels/grenades at him fairly easily, and you can easily sneak away from the third boss and get him with mines as well. The only boss fight I have serious issues with is the 2nd, and that's mainly because it's way too easy if you have the enhancement that makes you immune to electricity damage.
NOT TRUE, with the exception of the 2nd boss.
You can sneak away from the first boss and lob explosive barrels/grenades at him fairly easily, and you can easily sneak away from the third boss and get him with mines as well. The only boss fight I have serious issues with is the 2nd, and that's mainly because it's way too easy if you have the enhancement that makes you immune to electricity damage.
@demotarget:
It isn't that they were overtuned. It is that they were tuned to the wrong type of game.
The problem was that the boss fights were outsourced to a group that didn't know what Deus Ex was, or why it was different (to players), so the boss fights were carefully tuned under the assumption that it was a regular FPS. They weren't designed or tuned for people who might want to make non-combat runs. The possibility that players might intentionally do that probably never came to the minds of the boss dev team.
It isn't that they were overtuned. It is that they were tuned to the wrong type of game.
The problem was that the boss fights were outsourced to a group that didn't know what Deus Ex was, or why it was different (to players), so the boss fights were carefully tuned under the assumption that it was a regular FPS. They weren't designed or tuned for people who might want to make non-combat runs. The possibility that players might intentionally do that probably never came to the minds of the boss dev team.
To anyone who has trouble with the bosses: Keep four frags on you at all times. As soon as the first frag hits them they will be stunned and stand there while you hit them with the rest. I killed every boss (not that stupid robot pillar thing) in just a few seconds. It's part of why I call them rubbish.
They weren't great, but to get as angry as people did is ridiculous. In terms of time spent on the game they were so easily overlooked, especially when compared to everything else that was great about that game.
They weren't bad, but they weren't good either, the problem for me was that they broke the pace of the game....at least for me anyway, but still loved every minute of it.
They weren't bad, but they weren't good either, the problem for me was that they broke the pace of the game....at least for me anyway, but still loved every minute of it.
I was a bit disappointed with the boss fights but I didn't think it ruined the game or was that much of a big deal at all. I mean they accounted for probably less than 5% of the game. I would say that the boss fights in the Batman AA were worse in terms of impacting the overall experience.
"I thought this was fine, therefore everybody with actual valid complaints about bosses who dont fit into the context of this game are wrong"
Welcome to the Jimstructoid.
Welcome to the Jimstructoid.
@SephirothX
Really not. If the relatively minuscule amount of time spent fighting the bosses really ruined someone's enjoyment of the game, they were clearly looking for things to hate just for the sake of it.
Really not. If the relatively minuscule amount of time spent fighting the bosses really ruined someone's enjoyment of the game, they were clearly looking for things to hate just for the sake of it.
^ what SephirothX said
@ jim
even the developers think the boss fights sucked, why is that still not a valid opinion to you? the "controversy" surrounding the subject is dead, they didn't have to say anything, it wasn't forced. are you now saying even the people that made the game don't know what they're talking about? they sure as hell didn't set out to hate their own game.
OURNALJISM
@ jim
even the developers think the boss fights sucked, why is that still not a valid opinion to you? the "controversy" surrounding the subject is dead, they didn't have to say anything, it wasn't forced. are you now saying even the people that made the game don't know what they're talking about? they sure as hell didn't set out to hate their own game.
OURNALJISM
There seems to be this attitude that there was a large portion of people that were filled with burning hatred for the game just based on the boss fights. I didn't see that to any significant degree, honestly. I saw plenty of people pointing it out as a flaw, and I agree with them, but that certainly doesn't amount to rage or looking for things to hate. It's simply acknowledging a weakness in an otherwise fan-fucking-tastic game. There's a big difference there.
I don't see any reason in sugarcoating an obvious flaw just to defend a game the majority of us enjoyed. Imperfect game is imperfect. There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't see any reason in sugarcoating an obvious flaw just to defend a game the majority of us enjoyed. Imperfect game is imperfect. There's nothing wrong with that.
I agree, the bosses were fine and I don't get why all the bitching was necessary. I can see how it might be frustrating for those trying to do the non-violent run through, but Eidos certainly didn't need to apologize for anything.
To be fair, the second-to-last boss fight was very well done, but I started the game trying for a no kill run. When it becomes obvious after the first boss that the game WILL NOT allow you to progress without killing the only enemies with whom you have any significant contact, non-lethal play becomes less about any sort of morality and entirely about gaining a few extra aug points (which is bad).
My biggest problem with the game was that the world, the characters, and the side missions often struck me as incredibly hollow and very forgettable.
My biggest problem with the game was that the world, the characters, and the side missions often struck me as incredibly hollow and very forgettable.
Some of you might be missing a bit of the point here: Regardless of what the unwashed masses think, the developers themselves consider the boss fights a weakness and yet, while they have no problem cranking out $15 DLC, they can't be bothered to patch-in even minor balance tweaks which would take a minimal amount of time and effort to implement. (it's just changing values and testing the output)
This is all 100% pure 'grade A' PR bullshit, Eidos isn't taking any of this to heart, and they sure as shit aren't putting in place any measures to counter and/or smooth-over the weaknesses post-release.
Eidos could fix the vast majority of the balance issues in one small patch but they already have your money so why in the fuck would they?
This is all 100% pure 'grade A' PR bullshit, Eidos isn't taking any of this to heart, and they sure as shit aren't putting in place any measures to counter and/or smooth-over the weaknesses post-release.
Eidos could fix the vast majority of the balance issues in one small patch but they already have your money so why in the fuck would they?
I didn't think they were that bad, but playing as a stealth character and not upgrading my health at all definitely caused me to get a little irritated with the first two; then I upgraded.
But some were extremely cheap. Like the first boss, even if I went stealth and moved to a completely different part of the room and hid. The big burly dude would somehow still throw 3 grenades directly at my feet. He wouldn't even be FACING me, and he'd throw in a completely different direction, but the grenades would just arc towards me. It was horrendous design.
But really, they weren't THAT bad.
But some were extremely cheap. Like the first boss, even if I went stealth and moved to a completely different part of the room and hid. The big burly dude would somehow still throw 3 grenades directly at my feet. He wouldn't even be FACING me, and he'd throw in a completely different direction, but the grenades would just arc towards me. It was horrendous design.
But really, they weren't THAT bad.
@Tristix
No, no, no man. You got it a bit wrong.
Even in the original DX there were sorta boss fights. The difference is, in the original DX there were many ways to deal with them - lethal: kill them yourself, kill them using the environment (ex. get a guy to stand on the rail tracks, flip the switch and electrocute him) and non-lethal: knock them out or just run away.
In DXHR there's only one option available - to kill them (I don't count the BARRELS OF DEATH to be the environment).
No, no, no man. You got it a bit wrong.
Even in the original DX there were sorta boss fights. The difference is, in the original DX there were many ways to deal with them - lethal: kill them yourself, kill them using the environment (ex. get a guy to stand on the rail tracks, flip the switch and electrocute him) and non-lethal: knock them out or just run away.
In DXHR there's only one option available - to kill them (I don't count the BARRELS OF DEATH to be the environment).
I'm hurt Jim, I'm a huge fan of the first one (I consider it my best gaming experience to date) and I thoroughly enjoyed DX:HR. Bosses were weak, glitched and felt pulled out of nowhere. Does it make me hate the game? Absolutely not, I simply love it.
Careful with generalization, they are paradoxically only true for a loud minority. My close circle shares a similar opinion with me: we all think its an excellent game with bosses as a minor flaw and with a weird unfulfilling ending.
Careful with generalization, they are paradoxically only true for a loud minority. My close circle shares a similar opinion with me: we all think its an excellent game with bosses as a minor flaw and with a weird unfulfilling ending.
FFS, will people stop bitching about the bosses, already? I beat Barrett on the second try (only because I fucked up the first one, not because of difficuly), and I beat the other 3 with no problem whatsoever.
Yes, they went against the otherwise stealthy/cautious feel of the game, but so the fuck what? They each last all of a minute or two. Let this shit go, already.
Yes, they went against the otherwise stealthy/cautious feel of the game, but so the fuck what? They each last all of a minute or two. Let this shit go, already.
@Ren Doornheim - I was on "Give me a challenge" difficulty, and I didn't spec for "one on one" combat either (if there even is such a thing.) I didn't even put points into damage reduction until after I was three bosses in. Maybe you and
@SirPrizes - What really boggles my mind is that most people bitch about the first boss (barrett) the most, and he's by far the easist. Throw gas barrels at Barrett to blind him, throw red barrels to kill him. Whole thing is done in less than 30 seconds. For the rest, keep a few frag grenades and either a combat or heavy rifle stashed away just for them. IT IS NOT HARD.
@SirPrizes - What really boggles my mind is that most people bitch about the first boss (barrett) the most, and he's by far the easist. Throw gas barrels at Barrett to blind him, throw red barrels to kill him. Whole thing is done in less than 30 seconds. For the rest, keep a few frag grenades and either a combat or heavy rifle stashed away just for them. IT IS NOT HARD.
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