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EGM refuses to review Metal Gear Solid 4 photo

Tycho of Penny Arcade said that if you run a publication that reviews videogames, you need to have a review of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. This is a need that Konami is well aware of, and if you haven't heard by now, the publisher has been imposing strict limitations on those reviewing Kojima's latest opus. Why? Because it knows those publications need their game, and will jump through hoops for their precious review. Or will they?

Rather than crook the knee to Konami, EGM has actually refused to review Metal Gear Solid 4 thanks to Konami's demands that nobody mention the game's alleged large install sizes and cutscenes. While IGN is perfectly fine with bowing to Konami, EGM has at least shown that its reviewers can't be pushed around so easily. The magazine has instead compromised with a roundtable discussion of the game as opposed to a full review.

And this, my friends, is the way it should be. Unless it's a matter of courtesy, a reviewer shouldn't have to prostrate one's self to publishers for a review. The gaming press right now has no dignity -- it relies, like a lost puppy, on the games industry when the industry should be working to keep the press happy, not the other way around. 

Sticking to embargoes out of common courtesy is something I can understand, but trading in your integrity for the sake of being "first" with a review is pretty pathetic, in my opinion. There's a difference between agreeing to a few minor compromises (posting after a certain date, for example) and agreeing not to mention huge, important aspects of a game because you're so desperate for an exclusive. Thank you, EGM, for showing that at least some mainstream reviewers still have their balls. May others follow your lead.


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141 comments | showing # 51 to 100

bcrt2000's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:33
bcrt2000
Jim, show me your SOURCE for 90 minute cutscenes. That rumour was debunked a long time ago on GAF.
ace of knaves's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:40
ace of knaves
So instead of a review, they're doing a roundtable discussion.

Oh I see, there isn't going to be a score attatched, so that means it isn't a review. Right. Gotta go tell Yahtzee he's doing his job wrong.

Sorry EGM, but even if it's a different format than you normally do, if people are talking about their opinons on a game they've played from beginning to end and advising you whether or not to buy it, it's a review.
Merry Ho's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:40
Merry Ho
If there are going to be 90 minute cut scenes(wait, I think 90 minutes puts you in the full length movie category, correct me if I'm wrong) then there better be some damn good voice acting and dialog going on because there are few games today that I would tolerate more then a 10 minute cut scene. And for as helpful as the pre-install game files are they kinda start to eat up storage, at an average of 5+ GB a game after 4 installs you've probably filled over half your PS3 HD, unless of course you put in your own larger drive.

I'm not taking it as a good sign if Konami isn't proud of their 90 minute movie/cut scenes and God forbid a 10+ GB install. This is one game I am not going to pre-order. besides PS3 exclisive tytles have a bad rap going, Lair...Haze...may games 4 characters long just suck!
wait...MGS4....Oh Noes!
eternalplayer2345's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:44
eternalplayer2345
EGM, is doing a great thing by doing this. If we are to allow game developers to put restrictions on what reviewers can and cannot mention then we lose the entire point of reviewing something. A review to me should me a non-biased subjective look at something to determine it's overall value as a whole. If we do lose are integrity when reviewing than these reviews become nothing more than 3rd-party written PR speak.
Suprore's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:44
Suprore
I dont find 90 minute cutscenes hard to believe. MGS2 had upwards of an hour of cinema with maybe 5 minute of gameplay inbetween.

I like metal gear games, so i don't really get the big deal if this one is structured like a metal gear game.

As for egm declining to review, props. It's a publicity stunt, but at least one with a facsimile of honorable intentions!
PaperBowser0's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:47
PaperBowser0
And that's how it's suppose to be. >_>
Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:55
Cyberxion
@ ace of knaves

They didn't. Make a suggestion as to whether or not readers ought to buy the game, that is. They just talked about it amongst themselves a bit. So..y'know, yeah...
Teta's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 09:59
Teta
I clap EGM for doing that, but reviewing the game anyway would have been better. Come on, what do they loose, exlucive early reviews with press restrictions?
If they don´t want to have restrictions, then why bother not review the game anyway since they aren´t happy with the restrictions they have with the early review?
A good Fuck you Konami would have been better.
And every body knows about the 90 minute cutscene and the install, "not pointing" out those aspects of the game is a still a valid way out to things like that.
Hey the game was decent, i would have been better if some "things" werent to long.
Uther's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:02
Uther
@Cyberxion

"It"? Stop being uncertain? Stop playing on both sides? Stop what?
skullivan's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:09
skullivan
The problem is, no one gives a rat's ass about any reviews that appear AFTER a game is out. You don't need someone else's opinion at that point because you've bought it, rented it or borrowed it from someone else already. If a site can't have a review up before or, at the latest, by the end of the first week the game is out, there's no point.

Magazines have it worse because they have to print so far in advance. If they wanted to do a review of MGS4 without Konami's limitations, they'd have to wait until June 12th like everyone else to play it and the review wouldn't show up until probably their September issue (seeing as the July issue came out last week).

@Wardrox

The issue isn't about "free games". EGM is a major magazine, not some fanzine. Even if they have to go buy the game themselves, the reviewer still isn't paying for it out of pocket, Ziff Davis is. This is their job.

The issue is that publishers want to trade access to games for positive coverage. EGM already lost any access to Ubisoft games because they gave some unfavorable p/reviews to a few of their games. Is that really the way you want the gaming press to work? Where any previews you read are BS because they are mandated by the publisher not to say anything negative?

Or that they need to give the latest Petz game for DS a positive review because if they don't they won't get any preview access of the next Prince of Persia game? This is what we're talking about here.
Trev's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:13
Trev
Wasn't the Konami condition for reviewing it not mentioning the total length of cutscenes, not the length of individual ones?

I can understand why they wouldn't want that number put out there. People are going to focus on it. How long is the average Memory Card when you print it out? How is that different running a stop watch for MGS4's cutscenes? "Some guy who likes dolphins is going to go on for three pages about six seconds of some game from four years ago? That's stupid! Why would I want to read that?"

I really enjoy Chad's Memory Card articles, but describing them by length will only convince people not to read them. Konami isn't exactly being classy about it, but they want a review of the game or, if not that, at least a review of the cutscenes, rather than just talking about the amount of time they're on the screen.

I guess I can support EGM's decision not to review a game because they would have to do it by preset criteria, but their refusal to review it because they would be barred from including numbers seems petty. Taking X number of minutes to cache Y number of gigglebytes to the hard drive has nothing to do with the experience of playing the game. I don't care if you call the cutscenes long and boring if that's your opinion of them, but you don't need to say they're 34.78 minutes long to do it.
bcrt2000's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:16
bcrt2000
Okay, Ignorants of the world!

90 minutes cutscenes were debunked A LONG time ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11296544&postcount=948

And debunked by GamePro as well: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=187049

Integrity, eh?
bluerei's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:17
bluerei
I pay for a subscription to see reviews on upcoming games. Regardless of what EGM may think, a review on what they CAN say is better than no review at all. All I want to know is if it is worth the money. It's not like Konami is telling them to leave a perfect score like other games have in the past. They played the full game, install and all. I just want to know if it's worth playing and purchasing.
GameGuyPete's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:17
GameGuyPete
It's a double-edged problem here. Konami certainly shouldn't be putting restrictions on what should be mentioned in a review; however, online and print publications can't wait to buy their copies of games from retail and review them... so they play along with publishers and PR firms to get early access.

If you're basically asking for a publisher's help to increase hit numbers for your site or publication, then you should have to play by their rules (if any are applied).

The easy solution to this problem is to end reliance on publishers and PR firms for review copies (free copies, basically). The reviews may end up being late, but you've got no restrictions. If publishers or PR firms don't like what you write, then too bad.

If you're concerned about early access to other games for preview or hands-on, based on what the reaction is to your review, then it's the same problem as mentioned above.
Cheeburga's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:21
Cheeburga
Will you be reviewing the 360 version?
Aurain's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:48
Aurain
90 Minute Cutscenes in Devil May Cry = Bad
90 Minute Cutscenes in Grand Theft Auto = Bad
90 Minute Cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid = Awesome.

Metal Gear Solid is completely story driven, the entire point of the game is to experience the story. Metal Gear Solid 4 has alot of loose ends to tie up. I welcome it.

As for Install times, I'd rather that I wait a while for a game that works, rather than instantly play a game that doesn't.
Mr Kryptonite's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:51
Mr Kryptonite
*commences the baking of an EGM cake with...4 balls.*
At least someone wears the pants around here.
Conan-san's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 10:55
Conan-san
So how was the article proper?
nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 11:06
nilcam
I don't pay much attention to "professional" reviewers, much less EGM reviewers. I do, however, applaud this action.

There needs to be a clear distinction between advertising and editorial. Games journalism is still very early in its life and has to wage the important battles now. Once advertising gains more power than editorial, it's nearly impossible to push them back.

That said, a review should cover all elements of a game. If loading time is fair game for complaint, so is installation time. The length of cut scenes may be important to some gamers, thus it should be covered; especially in this case. Informing gamers about the legitimacy of the 90 minute cut scene rumor may affect a gamer's decision to buy. I generally get annoyed with long cut scenes; I want to play games not watch them.
someone666's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 11:19
someone666
Here is food for thought: Was Edge's 8 and Eurogamer's 8 some sort of a revenge against Konami's taboo list?

I think it is so. The reviewers felt unrespected in a way, and it conciously or subconciously affected their scoring
sn00zer's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 11:27
sn00zer
THEY ARE REVIEWING IT NEXT ISSUE
The regulations only apply to early reviews, ot rweviews made after the game is out.....whic is why they are waiting an issue
Alexradl's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 11:35
Alexradl
I agree with The Wrath. EGM was never anything special. It seems like they are purposefully trying to separate themselves from the rest of the generic gaming magazines/websites by doing this. Well, I applaud them for being different for once. It will be interesting to see how many other magazines/websites follow this act.
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 11:54
brainderailment
If it's simply over the install file and cutscene length, I think they are over-reacting. I don't think that would stop a reviewer from reviewing a game. There has to be some glaring flaw or something annoying that makes the reviewer want to dock a few points that they aren't allowed to mention.
parrothead's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:02
parrothead
Good job EGM!
Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:08
Cyberxion
Hey, I'm not the smartest person on the block, with an IQ hoevering around 3, but even though I drool on myself and have to have someone dress me in the morning, I'm smart enough to look at shit like and see it for what it is. You guys make too much of the smallest shit, and it's overwhelmingly idiotic, even to a guy who has to have someone whipe his ass for him because he finds the mechanics of the process mind-boggling.

Of course EGM is doing this on purpose. They want to separate themselves from all the mindless publications out there who would readily suck a dick if it meant an exclusive. To my mind, that they're bringing some integrity to the table is more important than the motivation behind it, because it means that we stand the chance to get info that hasn't been tainted by a publisher's PR team. That's a good thing, people.

Oh, and say what you will about the publication itself. You think it's shit? Cool. I'm not the biggest fan myself, and only recieve it by virtue of a free subscription. Just, I dunno, stop making up shit. I don't like a lot of you fuckers, but I won't claim that you all suck cocks on the street for spare change because of it, so maybe it would be a great idea if you'd stop taking small shit and bending it out of proportion because you don't like the mag.

It's fucking nuts how far most gamers will take their dislike of something.
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:10
Timmeh
@Aurain

90 minute cutscenes in ANY game = bad

I don't know when it was that story-driven became synonymous with long ass cut scenes but it stinks. Games can be cinematic without ACTUALLY being a movie.

To me, huge amounts of cut scenes suggests a lack of talent/ability in translating set pieces or sequences into gameplay.

If I want to WATCH something, I'll rent a movie.
If I want to PLAY something, I'll get a game.

I recently bought Lost Odyssey to indulge my RPG tendencies only to find myself struggling to play it because it is about as interactive as pressing play/pause on the DVD remote repeatedly.
Big Z's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:12
Big Z
Good for you, EGM! I have no particular like or dislike for them, but I still recognize this as a step in the right direction on correcting the backwards relationship between reviewer and publisher.
Tuxy's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:12
Tuxy
EGM :thumbs up:

I'll purchase a copy of your antiquated paper-bound publication to support this act of integrity.
Shin Oni's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:13
Shin Oni
I'm glad EGM is actually well...still being good/smart/decent and not dickriding Konami. I'll take a discussion over a review if it meant no mention of the install and 90 minute cutscenes. It's not much of a review if someone's telling you what can and can't be said. Course IGN sucks 360 and mainstream game balls, EGM still keeps it true to an extent.

Granted I still don't listen much to reviews as I do more browsing to see if I should buy or just wait. I'm just glad someone is actually standing up to acts such as this.
Tull's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:25
Tull
Whether or not the majority of the people buying MGS4 have played the past games thus know all about lenghty cutscenes there will still be new gamers who will buy the game on name-recognition alone. If they've not played the previous titles and MGS4 is their first taste of the series then they better know from reviewers that there will be lenghty cutscenes. It'll be up to the new gamer to decide whether they want to actually buy it or not.

While there are reviewers out there who cannot for the life of them give a bad review to any game there are those who take their job seriously and write up a constructive and helpful review. Being handcuffed by the publisher about what the reviewer can or cannot mention doesn't go towards constructive criticism.
Blackhat's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:28
Blackhat
Of all places I could imagine finally having the balls to not do whatever fellating a famous franchise demands, EGM is probably at the bottom of that list.

Good on them, it's just surprising.

I can't believe Konami has the gall to do something like this. Well, I can believe it, I'm just... surprised they went this far so openly.
Perry Simm's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 12:35
Perry Simm
"...the industry should be working to keep the press happy, not the other way around."

Amen.
naia-the-gamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:01
naia-the-gamer
So it sounds like they will be reviewing it eventually, just not now. I guess that's nice of them not to bow to Konami, but I'm surprised to hear that to be honest. I hear stories from people I know in the industry about how places like that sell review scores all the time, so why get high and mighty now?

I might be thinking GamePro. All I know is that one (or probably all) magazine(s) will inflate reviews for the right price. That's what people have told me. As a result I don't trust any gaming mag for reviews. Are they backpedaling and trying to redeem themselves or something?
Vongore's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:02
Vongore
I still don't unsterstand what's wrong with the 90 minutes cutscenes i would gladly sit down on my couch and enjoy some MGS4 awesomness for 90 minutes, after all what i enjoyed the most in the past MGS were the cutscenes.
JonDarkwood's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:10
JonDarkwood
It's absolutely pathetic that integrity in game journalism is news.
pedrovay2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:14
pedrovay2003
I don't know why Konami wants to hide the installs and cutscenes --- I think they're both good things. The MGS series has always been cutscene heavy, and that's where all the story is revealed, so longer ones will be welcome in my opinion.

As far as installs go, if it makes a game run and play better, I'm all for them. The PS3 has the hard drive space for it, and even if you have a 40gb, compatible HDs are dirt cheap now. If it reduces or completely eliminates loading screens, I think it's more of a positive than a negative.
Zac Bentz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:18
Zac Bentz
Who the fuck cares about MGS4 reviews? Either you're getting it or you're not, and you knew that decision months ago. Any review of it is a waste of time/space/paper/electrons.
Salty Soil's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:24
Salty Soil
It's great that EGM isn't going to bend over for an early review opportunity, but I think they're hardly taking the high road with a five page long discussion of the game.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:24
Jim Sterling
Took the number "90" and the word "minute" out of the article to make some dude really happy.
Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:32
Cyberxion
@ Vongore

There's gotta be something wrong with playing a game and yet deriving much of your enjoyment of it from the non-interactive portion of it. :P
Quest's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:34
Quest
Jim Sterling
06/02/2008 07:44
"Why do people care about 90 min cutsences? MGS4 isn't like a simple minigame you will play for ten minutes then put down. MGS4 is suppost to be a "meaty adventure" that combines excellent gameplay with excellent cutsence"

I couldn't give a shit, but if I was reviewing it (and, God willing, I will be the one doing it for Dtoid), I would want to mention a cutscene of such length. Some people are turned off by that sort of thing, and should be informed. It's a reviewer's duty to do that.


you don't have a PS3 but i know your able to still create a bad review against the PS3
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:39
Jim Sterling
"you don't have a PS3 but i know your able to still create a bad review against the PS3"

So Metal Gear Solid 4 IS the PS3 now? Nice to know you Sony obsessives really do identify exclusive games in such a stupid way. I always assumed you did but never had the proof -- now it is confirmed that you morons think an exclusive game IS the system. Cheers!

And also, I do have access to a PS3, despite not having one in the house.
KilgoreTrout XL's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:40
KilgoreTrout XL
Eurogamer appears to have throughly ignored Konami's request. Even still, the review makes me want to play the game (I probably won't for a long time, since I don't own a PS3.) So Konami's restrictions are both improper and incredibly stupid. I'm pretty annoyed that Konami thinks so poorly of us that we would accept fake/censored reviews like lemmings.

Accordingly, I'd like to give a hearty "go fuck yourself" to all the douchebags at Konami who are behind this asinine decision.

What fools- there's not much doubt that the game would have been good enough without having to resort to this bullshit. All they did was tarnish the game.
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:41
Phoenix Gamma
@JonDarkwood: And I think it's absolutely pathetic that people can scoff at others when they mention stories like this. I'd rather hear about EGM sticking it to Konami than hear about more Gamespot bullshit.

And honestly, why give a fuck about keeping those things quiet? The game is going to sell, it's going to be really popular, and the fans are going to love it anyways.
Respectable Gentleman's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:45
Respectable Gentleman
This makes me feel bad for abandoning EGM.
doktorwyzzerd1's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:46
doktorwyzzerd1
Hear Hear! The video game press is just a payola receptacle.. Well I don't have any proof of that, jsut the piss-poor quality of IGN a and lamespot.

Hey remember Diehard Gamefan? Man that was a great mag, and honest. Did they have that in Europe?
Misanthrope's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:47
Misanthrope
I think I underestimated MSG popularity quite a bit. People are willing to defend something they cannot possibly defend: go tell this TO KONAMI ok? They are the ones hiding it like it was dirt. If they treat it like dirt then I will assume is dirt.

But I won't try to reason with any of you, I can't possibly get past fanboys who would go to the length of claiming "I LIKE big installs" How do you respond to that? You feel some sense of satisfaction to know you there is lots of information stored on a magnetic disks?

Im gonna make a Blueray movie that asks you to press X to continue 3 times during the length of it and forces you to copy 36gb to your 40gb hard drive, according to you guys you will like it right?
MaximusPaynicus's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:50
MaximusPaynicus
I applaud EGM and 1UP for their fabulous publicity stunt, saying they're not going to review a game because of the publisher's restrictions before having a "roundtable discussion" in which they review the game.

If you're going to take a stand like this, don't half ass it. You feel slighted because of the publisher's demands, then don't publish the review until the game's release, and make no further mention of it. Don't say you refuse to review it and then proceed to do exactly that under the guise of a discussion. It just makes you look cheap.
Morrius's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:56
Morrius
I can give you a review right now:

It's like metal gear solid
harrmonica's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 13:59
harrmonica
i agree that this is a good call, but lets not go overboard with the kudos. egm is just as guilty as most for falling in line with most other publications to give glowing marks to massively hyped games.
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