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"some of them are just prepared to hate Mass Effect 3, no matter what."
That's the best summary of the events of the last week I've seen so far. Some people just aren't happy unless they're miserable.
That's the best summary of the events of the last week I've seen so far. Some people just aren't happy unless they're miserable.
I don't get your ire over the whole spoiler thing. Some people haven't played it yet, but may want to read the article. Isn't that just a normal professional courtesy?
Video game bloggers should tear into EA and Capcom for what they are doing but I guess they are afraid they may piss them off and they'll take the goods away.
Here's the thing:
Developing DLC during the main game's certification phase is a perfectly legitimate and fair thing to do. I do not doubt that is what happened with ME3.
Including some skeleton assets such as a character model and essentially placeholders for future, planned, DLC on the disc is also a pretty reasonable thing to do if you understand the slightest bit about the development process. Bioware said as far back as ME1 that they intended for the Mass Effect universe to be expandable. Thus the main games are build in such a way to be "ready" for future expansions.
There is still a problem, and that is the unfortunate timing of the DLC. I don't doubt that the content was completed during the certification phase, but I feel as though they should have still delayed its release, because the result of releasing it simultaneously with the main product is a muddled perception of what is "extra" and what is "core".
Instead, gamers are ignoring this and are seeking out a reason to accuse Bioware of lying by finding content on the disc that one should expect to find on the disc. Right now gamers are butthurt and WANT to be angry. The thing is, there are some valid reasons for being angry and some invalid ones. This whole on-disc bullshit is invalid.
Developing DLC during the main game's certification phase is a perfectly legitimate and fair thing to do. I do not doubt that is what happened with ME3.
Including some skeleton assets such as a character model and essentially placeholders for future, planned, DLC on the disc is also a pretty reasonable thing to do if you understand the slightest bit about the development process. Bioware said as far back as ME1 that they intended for the Mass Effect universe to be expandable. Thus the main games are build in such a way to be "ready" for future expansions.
There is still a problem, and that is the unfortunate timing of the DLC. I don't doubt that the content was completed during the certification phase, but I feel as though they should have still delayed its release, because the result of releasing it simultaneously with the main product is a muddled perception of what is "extra" and what is "core".
Instead, gamers are ignoring this and are seeking out a reason to accuse Bioware of lying by finding content on the disc that one should expect to find on the disc. Right now gamers are butthurt and WANT to be angry. The thing is, there are some valid reasons for being angry and some invalid ones. This whole on-disc bullshit is invalid.
How many ways are there to say "bullshit"?
Key point here, "New appearances for all squad members". So that doesn't have to be included in the frame work? but a new model does? even though a new costume is a new model.
I'm not even against day one dlc, I'm not against dlc on the disc. But don't lie about it making up these massively transparent excuses.
Jim sterling I know you are busy playing blades of time, but please don't let them get away with this bollocks.
Key point here, "New appearances for all squad members". So that doesn't have to be included in the frame work? but a new model does? even though a new costume is a new model.
I'm not even against day one dlc, I'm not against dlc on the disc. But don't lie about it making up these massively transparent excuses.
Jim sterling I know you are busy playing blades of time, but please don't let them get away with this bollocks.
Why should people be satisfied with that answer?
Zaeed and Kasumi were throwaway characters, yet Arrival, Lair of the Shadow Broker and Project Overlord are all things Mass Effect 3 assumed happen no matter what. So who is that "optional content?"
Javik is a Prothean and Eden Prime is where Shepard's connection to the Protheans began in the first game. Its extremely fair to question Bioware's stance on the matter and the accusations are validated by finding Javik and some of the content on-disc.
People are in the right to call bullshit on all of this. They are not getting the full value for their dollar.
Zaeed and Kasumi were throwaway characters, yet Arrival, Lair of the Shadow Broker and Project Overlord are all things Mass Effect 3 assumed happen no matter what. So who is that "optional content?"
Javik is a Prothean and Eden Prime is where Shepard's connection to the Protheans began in the first game. Its extremely fair to question Bioware's stance on the matter and the accusations are validated by finding Javik and some of the content on-disc.
People are in the right to call bullshit on all of this. They are not getting the full value for their dollar.
Giant corporation milks customers and defends it's practices? Whaaaaa? The government must be informed, they'll fix this.
Meh. I don't even own the game. Won't be buying it anytime soon either despite loving the first to titles becuase Bioware is in obvious decline.
It's just laughable to even think that EA would say "alright, you caught us". To believe such a blatantly money grubbing publisher in the face of evidence to the contrary requires a suspension of disbelief.
It's just laughable to even think that EA would say "alright, you caught us". To believe such a blatantly money grubbing publisher in the face of evidence to the contrary requires a suspension of disbelief.
Wait? So people are having a hissing fit on whether DLC was developed within a window of a few months? Being just 1 or 2 months early is unacceptable as it should be on the dics for free?
...These's fans really are starting to push the term lunatics on themselves aren't they?
I'm not defending EA. I hate them, and I don't buy their stuff unless it's in the bargain bin, but man...This is pushing it. lol
...These's fans really are starting to push the term lunatics on themselves aren't they?
I'm not defending EA. I hate them, and I don't buy their stuff unless it's in the bargain bin, but man...This is pushing it. lol
I'm embarrassed to be a Mass Effect fan right now; what a bunch of self entitled assholes. Mass Effect 3 is amazing, and easily the best in the trilogy.
it's a spoiler to know that spoilers even exist!
if your biggest problem is the agony that day 1 DLC (that might have been but turns out was not) on the disc causes you, consider yourself fucking lucky.
yeah it's lame, and yeah, the gullible fanbois will buy it (i did, sigh), but can we chalk this up to a marketing/economic strategy and not a threat to our future? i guess let the tone/scale of the rhetoric/response match the issue? too much to ask?
if your biggest problem is the agony that day 1 DLC (that might have been but turns out was not) on the disc causes you, consider yourself fucking lucky.
yeah it's lame, and yeah, the gullible fanbois will buy it (i did, sigh), but can we chalk this up to a marketing/economic strategy and not a threat to our future? i guess let the tone/scale of the rhetoric/response match the issue? too much to ask?
Its too bad that people are Spoiler about Spoiler being so Spoiler Spoiler-ing because Spoiler Effect 3 is a tremendously Spoiler experience.
People who Overreact about Mass Effect + People who Want to Burn Down the EA Offices = Internet Powder Keg.
This reminds the day that after a few months of Binding of Isaac someone accused me of spoiling the game to him. YES YOU KILL MOM and if you have not seen the achievements or not heard news about it... then you sir/mam are living under a rock.
@Hardy - The details on "From Ashes" content was leaked three times from last June to present.
First on Origin when the digital CE was available on pre-order. Then months later the script for it was leaked and then four weeks back the content was leaked again on Xbox Live Marketplace.
Finally, code for the content was found the ME3 discs themselves.
If you still want to believe this content was developed separate from the main game... well, I clearly can't help you.
First on Origin when the digital CE was available on pre-order. Then months later the script for it was leaked and then four weeks back the content was leaked again on Xbox Live Marketplace.
Finally, code for the content was found the ME3 discs themselves.
If you still want to believe this content was developed separate from the main game... well, I clearly can't help you.
On first blush I objected to this DLC, but you know what? It's fine. Bioware's reasoning (you can keep more people employed if you make off-disc DLC) is sound, and I don't object to paying $10 for high quality content on day one.
What I still object to is on disc DLC, because that doesn't let people keep their jobs. I'll pay $10 so people can keep their jobs and make high quality DLC (and ME2 showed Bioware did that), but not for meaningless corporate greed.
What I still object to is on disc DLC, because that doesn't let people keep their jobs. I'll pay $10 so people can keep their jobs and make high quality DLC (and ME2 showed Bioware did that), but not for meaningless corporate greed.
I hate EA, and I don't buy any of their games, except for ME. ME3 is incredible. I haven't played a game on hours on since Dark Souls. Haven't been paying attention to all this controversy because I've been busy playing this awesome game.
Does it surprise me that EA screwed over its fans, gamers? No, not one bit. It's expected. Soon, I'll *HAVE* to sign up for Origin just to buy their games.
Does it surprise me that EA screwed over its fans, gamers? No, not one bit. It's expected. Soon, I'll *HAVE* to sign up for Origin just to buy their games.
2*,just-admit-you-are-soul-sucking,grandma-murdering,baby-raping,greedy-demons....cuz-we-know-ya-are
I guess what I don't get is would the complainers be happy if this content was never released? ME3 as it is gives a complete gaming experience. If they do so, but have other content that is not part of what they planned to deliver and want to deliver it by other means, whether by having a parallel group work at the same time on the other content, or doing it after, whether it is downloadable, or fits into space on the DVD, what's the big deal?
@Trist
I disagree. I think there was some amazing back-and-forth found in the "Ending Controversy" article on Dtoid (amongst others) - some of the best discussions I've seen anywhere in recent memory.
I enjoyed Mass Effect 3 myself immensely, but debating the ending/epilogue and a potential lie about day one DLC that is vital to Mass Effect's lore is hardly a capital offense. If the DLC is indeed on the disc, than it's no better than the DLC characters on Street Fighter x Tekken, that the community seems to unanimously loathe - except here, Bioware potentially tried to cover it up.
I disagree. I think there was some amazing back-and-forth found in the "Ending Controversy" article on Dtoid (amongst others) - some of the best discussions I've seen anywhere in recent memory.
I enjoyed Mass Effect 3 myself immensely, but debating the ending/epilogue and a potential lie about day one DLC that is vital to Mass Effect's lore is hardly a capital offense. If the DLC is indeed on the disc, than it's no better than the DLC characters on Street Fighter x Tekken, that the community seems to unanimously loathe - except here, Bioware potentially tried to cover it up.
Honestly, regardless of all this, I think EA/Bioware has properly got the ME community by the balls on this one. Most of the time, game companies will charge extra for power (weapons), fun (joke stuff), or adrenaline (new missions/maps/etc.). Now, with the ME series, they can charge for emotion. So many fans have an emotional connection to this game that they can't bear to go through it without having all the story elements in place, and EA/Bioware is rightly taking advantage of that. Ashamedly, I count myself right among that number, having bought the Prothean DLC on my second day of playing.
While he's not essential to the storyline in the least, the Prothean is well-vested in the events, with many comments regarding his perspective on the story, as well as interactions with several other characters. This isn't a little "do a side mission with them and have them sit off in the corner" thing.
So, he's not necessarily valuable from a gameplay standpoint, and again, he doesn't factor into the main storyline, but he's incredibly valuable from a narrative standpoint.
Well played, boys. You squeezed a little extra out of us.
While he's not essential to the storyline in the least, the Prothean is well-vested in the events, with many comments regarding his perspective on the story, as well as interactions with several other characters. This isn't a little "do a side mission with them and have them sit off in the corner" thing.
So, he's not necessarily valuable from a gameplay standpoint, and again, he doesn't factor into the main storyline, but he's incredibly valuable from a narrative standpoint.
Well played, boys. You squeezed a little extra out of us.
It takes maybe 2 months to take a copy of the game, get it on discs, in boxes, and shipped. In that time, they finished up on some more content and had it ready for digital.
How is that hard to understand?
How is that hard to understand?
N7 armor? blue fire shit? Guns?! SPACE?!?!
This is the last straw, Mr. Sterling! I'm sick of getting a game I've never played spoiled for me!
I'm getting you fired, asshole.
<3
This is the last straw, Mr. Sterling! I'm sick of getting a game I've never played spoiled for me!
I'm getting you fired, asshole.
<3
I waited an entire year to buy Mass Effect 2 after its launch. I paid $20 for it, brand new. I went home, and then proceeded to spend $22 more on the DLC. This was before Arrival, but at least it felt like I had the full game when I played it the second time.
I didn't want to wait a year this time. My wallet is already paying for it. The only thing I'd like to know is why this character is $10, when Kasumi and Zaeed were both $7.
I didn't want to wait a year this time. My wallet is already paying for it. The only thing I'd like to know is why this character is $10, when Kasumi and Zaeed were both $7.
@CyricZ
"but he's incredibly valuable from a narrative standpoint."
Agreed. With the Prothean, you get so much insight into the Mass Effect universe, you'll never look at many aspects the same again - especially if you play through it again from ME1.
Insight on the Solarians, the Rachni - the Asari artifact - it's all solid gold, and IMO, is necessary for the full enjoyment of the game if you've been playing since ME1.
"but he's incredibly valuable from a narrative standpoint."
Agreed. With the Prothean, you get so much insight into the Mass Effect universe, you'll never look at many aspects the same again - especially if you play through it again from ME1.
Insight on the Solarians, the Rachni - the Asari artifact - it's all solid gold, and IMO, is necessary for the full enjoyment of the game if you've been playing since ME1.
@Chris Carter - Exactly.
Its bad and everyone assumes the worst and rages at Capcom on a LACK of information, but when a fair amount of evidence is gathered and Bioware issues a plausible-but- questionable denial we are all just supposed to be content with that and accept that it's the God's honest truth.
Perhaps the best response from both Capcom and Bioware would be a actual acknowledgement that they made a mistake - as the majority of fans do feel short hanged - and do something about that.
Neither company is doing a great job of building brand trust by doing what they do. It is time for them to change that.
Its bad and everyone assumes the worst and rages at Capcom on a LACK of information, but when a fair amount of evidence is gathered and Bioware issues a plausible-but- questionable denial we are all just supposed to be content with that and accept that it's the God's honest truth.
Perhaps the best response from both Capcom and Bioware would be a actual acknowledgement that they made a mistake - as the majority of fans do feel short hanged - and do something about that.
Neither company is doing a great job of building brand trust by doing what they do. It is time for them to change that.
@Chris
"except here, Bioware potentially tried to cover it up."
...really? Come on man, it's fine for these other people to buy into that shit but someone that actually writes about it for a living ought to know better.
"except here, Bioware potentially tried to cover it up."
...really? Come on man, it's fine for these other people to buy into that shit but someone that actually writes about it for a living ought to know better.
@Trist
I'm not saying they did it. I'm saying I'm interested in seeing the truth, because people deserve that much.
I'm not saying they did it. I'm saying I'm interested in seeing the truth, because people deserve that much.
How dare people buy into a mentality that publishers segment content to make more money piecemealing a product. That could never be true.
"All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc."
Yeah, that's an outright lie. Like they would admit it however.
The reason is if you look around YouTube, several people have reported the code in the retail disks. Not only that, but by changing a few lines of code, Jarik and everything related to him is unlocked for you with no downloading required.
The issue is not whether people are satisfied with this. It's whether the companies in question will actually apologize rather than keep trying to dodge the facts laid before them.
Yeah, that's an outright lie. Like they would admit it however.
The reason is if you look around YouTube, several people have reported the code in the retail disks. Not only that, but by changing a few lines of code, Jarik and everything related to him is unlocked for you with no downloading required.
The issue is not whether people are satisfied with this. It's whether the companies in question will actually apologize rather than keep trying to dodge the facts laid before them.
I didn't say it was developed separately. I'm saying it's pretty sad seeing people get pissing over a couple of months development time.
And as for EA/Bioware lying out their ass about the issue....It's EA/Bioware. Did you really expect anything other then lying and deceit?
I guess some people still have some glimmer of respect towards the company.
And as for EA/Bioware lying out their ass about the issue....It's EA/Bioware. Did you really expect anything other then lying and deceit?
I guess some people still have some glimmer of respect towards the company.
@Chris
I'd personally rather you didn't dignify that shit with a benefit of doubt, honestly. As I said, if the rest of these people with no stake in it want to engage in speculation, that's their right. Good for them. I don't like the message it sends when someone who's contributing to the site engages, or even entertains, that speculation though. When they do it, it's just people on the internet doing what people on the internet do. When you do it, it gives the appearance of an ostensibly respectable video game blog contributing to baseless rumor.
Then again, that's just my take on it. I could be wrong. By all means, speak your mind, broseidon.
I'd personally rather you didn't dignify that shit with a benefit of doubt, honestly. As I said, if the rest of these people with no stake in it want to engage in speculation, that's their right. Good for them. I don't like the message it sends when someone who's contributing to the site engages, or even entertains, that speculation though. When they do it, it's just people on the internet doing what people on the internet do. When you do it, it gives the appearance of an ostensibly respectable video game blog contributing to baseless rumor.
Then again, that's just my take on it. I could be wrong. By all means, speak your mind, broseidon.
So why was Zaeed, Firewalker, Normany Crash Site Day 1 DLC free but this single piece not?
I am not complaining that From Ashes was Day 1 DLC, I am sure there is a good reason for it not being accessible fully on the disc. Heck I am totally fine with Day 1 DLC in general.
What I am not fine with and complaining about is why it even came with a price tag in the first place.
Pay DLC that is not an expansion pack and|or aesthetic stuff is the rot that is chewing away at this generation of games and I rather people be over-entitled babies about it than complacent consumers.
I am not complaining that From Ashes was Day 1 DLC, I am sure there is a good reason for it not being accessible fully on the disc. Heck I am totally fine with Day 1 DLC in general.
What I am not fine with and complaining about is why it even came with a price tag in the first place.
Pay DLC that is not an expansion pack and|or aesthetic stuff is the rot that is chewing away at this generation of games and I rather people be over-entitled babies about it than complacent consumers.
It doesn't matter when they made it.
The point is that it is DAY-ONE DLC, which is just a rotten practice.
The point is that it is DAY-ONE DLC, which is just a rotten practice.
I really don't understand how this is an issue. In fact it isn't an issue if it was completed at the same time or if it was completed before ME3 or after. This is content they decided to sell as DLC and an expansion arc and that's all there is to it. It is their choice of how they want to distribute and sell their product it is your choice to buy it or not. Grow the fuck up or either figuratively or literally (depending on the the case) and stop being obnoxious boys who cried wolf over everything. Side not I have only played about 2 hours of the first Mass Effect game and have no love for this series.
I truly love Mass effect, but man, Do I ever hate Mass Effect fans.
I have never seen such a group of self righteous ass holes in my life. There are legitimate to be had with ME3, but this kind of crap certainly isn't one of them.
Haters gonna hate.
I have never seen such a group of self righteous ass holes in my life. There are legitimate to be had with ME3, but this kind of crap certainly isn't one of them.
Haters gonna hate.
Forgetting Mass Effect for a moment, think about the ramifications of allowing pre-cert DLC development to become normal and accepted. Sure there are games where the DLC will definitely sell, but think about the games where it just doesn't pan out. We talk about how much more games cost to make these days, it's things like this that add to those costs. It's like shoehorned multiplayer, how many times has that added to costs only to end up not seeing a return on that investment?
Years ago, when all this started, the argument for it was that it would never go as far as it has. Now that we've reached this point, why would we continue to argue that they wouldn't go further?
Years ago, when all this started, the argument for it was that it would never go as far as it has. Now that we've reached this point, why would we continue to argue that they wouldn't go further?
I'm almost sure this was on disc content. not saying that I torrent but my friend who I will not disclose to you (because he will in fact kill me)does. And really all he had to do to unlock the DlC was get a measly 6 MB unlocker. I really don't care either way but yeah someones got some explaining to do.
@AgentBJ
No, the only thing they have unlocked is the ability to use the Javik model on missions. His actual Eden Prime mission, Cinematics etc are all downloaded. Try it yourself and see if you can do anything more than have him on missions.
No, the only thing they have unlocked is the ability to use the Javik model on missions. His actual Eden Prime mission, Cinematics etc are all downloaded. Try it yourself and see if you can do anything more than have him on missions.
@Timboxx - I'm a little confused.
Expansion content is fine by me. Bethesda gave me a 400+ hour game in Skyrim and more to do and see that I'd probably be able to. An expansion after that is indeed icing on the cake and I'd totally buy it.
Add-on DLC, however, is often day one or at least a month or two after and it is rather appalling how its implemented. Its used as a blatant money grab and often feels like value was removed from the core product rather than added to it.
Had from Ashes been something out two or three months from now, people wouldn't be questioning it like they do now and, to be fair. things as iconic as Eden Prime and a Prothean are things Bioware should be ashamed of not including in a final retail product.
What Bioware does with ME is kind of like if George Lucas took out Han's carbonite freeze in Empire Strikes Back and demands $10s for you to see it and then Return of the Jedi acknoledges it happened anyway.
That's certainly what happened with Shadow Broker, Project Overlord and Arrival. Bioware just doesn't have a good case for how they do DLC, its very much part of the story, not matter how small they want us to believe it is.
Expansion content is fine by me. Bethesda gave me a 400+ hour game in Skyrim and more to do and see that I'd probably be able to. An expansion after that is indeed icing on the cake and I'd totally buy it.
Add-on DLC, however, is often day one or at least a month or two after and it is rather appalling how its implemented. Its used as a blatant money grab and often feels like value was removed from the core product rather than added to it.
Had from Ashes been something out two or three months from now, people wouldn't be questioning it like they do now and, to be fair. things as iconic as Eden Prime and a Prothean are things Bioware should be ashamed of not including in a final retail product.
What Bioware does with ME is kind of like if George Lucas took out Han's carbonite freeze in Empire Strikes Back and demands $10s for you to see it and then Return of the Jedi acknoledges it happened anyway.
That's certainly what happened with Shadow Broker, Project Overlord and Arrival. Bioware just doesn't have a good case for how they do DLC, its very much part of the story, not matter how small they want us to believe it is.
Just do what I am doing. I am boycotting the game for now because of all the crazyness. I will buy it brand new sometime next year though, when the "massive" edition or whatever comes out with everything on the disc, DLC included for the full price. Then I will feel like I am getting the full game for the full price, and new.
That's my plan.
That's my plan.
@The Silent Protagonist
I was stating that "pay DLC" is awful junk when it is *not* an expansion pack and when it is *not* simply aesthetic stuff. I was saying I love expansions and can tolerate pay-for-alternate costumes & skins.
I agree that timing played a critical roll in releasing pay DLC stuff as well and had From Ashes been released a few months down the line I doubt many would have much problem with it.
I was stating that "pay DLC" is awful junk when it is *not* an expansion pack and when it is *not* simply aesthetic stuff. I was saying I love expansions and can tolerate pay-for-alternate costumes & skins.
I agree that timing played a critical roll in releasing pay DLC stuff as well and had From Ashes been released a few months down the line I doubt many would have much problem with it.
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