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Are we going to have an article with a fresh Internet Shitstorm (tm) every time a new company does this with their ToS? Because they're all going to, the flood gates are open now. Maybe it's best to just get our rage all out of the way at once.
RAAAAAAWBLARGBLARGBLARGBLARGRAAAAAAAAAAH!
There. I feel better already.
RAAAAAAWBLARGBLARGBLARGBLARGRAAAAAAAAAAH!
There. I feel better already.
Is this even legal? You can forbid your customers from suing you in one way through a damn click-through agreement? I can see this in physical contracts but online? In a Terms of Service?
@Graduated Plum
Heh, they don't care, the majority of gamers don't even check things like this anyway. So long as their being fed another Madden, they're happy.
Heh, they don't care, the majority of gamers don't even check things like this anyway. So long as their being fed another Madden, they're happy.
Can whoever it is that complains about sexy women header images just stop.
You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them.
I think we've earned a few hot female header images over the last few days.
In other news, oh noes, TOS is stopping me from class action suing like a whiney little bitch.
If you have a problem worth suing over, take it up directly. Class action is more of a protest against a minor gripe that most people don't even care about, just want in on the bandwagon.
Class action suits are a dick move anyway. If you've really been harmed you can and should sue properly or at least offer the culprit the chance to make it right.
You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them.
I think we've earned a few hot female header images over the last few days.
In other news, oh noes, TOS is stopping me from class action suing like a whiney little bitch.
If you have a problem worth suing over, take it up directly. Class action is more of a protest against a minor gripe that most people don't even care about, just want in on the bandwagon.
Class action suits are a dick move anyway. If you've really been harmed you can and should sue properly or at least offer the culprit the chance to make it right.
Of course fans of either companies will claim this being a small matter. Who dares to sue poor ol' EA or Sony?
I will repeat myself once again: If you do not agree with this, do not buy products from Sony or EA! Talk with your wallet! Complaining in the internet and buying their products anyway will not make the companies change their minds!
Not to go all legal here, but these are adhesion contracts with such unequal bargaining power that it seems entirely possible that a court will find it to be unconscionable if challenged.
And for the record: large companies like class action lawsuits (or not being sued at all). It helps them predict costs and gives them finality since all those who did not opt out are thus precluded from suing on that matter.
Lesson: just because you signed something, doesn't mean that it's enforceable.
And for the record: large companies like class action lawsuits (or not being sued at all). It helps them predict costs and gives them finality since all those who did not opt out are thus precluded from suing on that matter.
Lesson: just because you signed something, doesn't mean that it's enforceable.
@ManWithNoName
Indeed. The risk of hypocrisy is pretty high there, though. Anyone who takes this course of action should probably take the time to peruse the ToS of other services they use. Specifically, they should cancel their Steam accounts and cell phone service. And that's just for starters.
Indeed. The risk of hypocrisy is pretty high there, though. Anyone who takes this course of action should probably take the time to peruse the ToS of other services they use. Specifically, they should cancel their Steam accounts and cell phone service. And that's just for starters.
Not to go all legal here, but these are adhesion contracts with such unequal bargaining power that it seems entirely possible that a court will find it to be unconscionable if challenged.
And for the record: large companies like class action lawsuits (or not being sued at all). It helps them predict costs and gives them finality since all those who did not opt out are thus precluded from suing on that matter.
Lesson: just because you signed something, doesn't mean that it's enforceable.
And for the record: large companies like class action lawsuits (or not being sued at all). It helps them predict costs and gives them finality since all those who did not opt out are thus precluded from suing on that matter.
Lesson: just because you signed something, doesn't mean that it's enforceable.
@ManWithNoName
But doesn't awareness need to be spread so that people are informed to not give them money?
But doesn't awareness need to be spread so that people are informed to not give them money?
@NickKull: Yes, I agree. What Jim is doing is raising awareness. He is in a news blog/website and is doing his job. But everyone saying 'EA sucks' and 'Sony must die' and yet buy the products of these companies are the problem. A company likes money and will do anything to get it. They don't care about bad PR if by the end of the fiscal year their profits raised, because everyone complaining bought their products anyway.
Look at your games, now look at me, look back at your games. Are your games not as filled with bullshit tos agreements as me? Look at me, I'm flying a dolphin across space, look again, that dolphin is now a foaming unicorn. Look at your games, they are now the same as they always have been. I'm actually a pirate.
@SC:
Class action lawsuits can be important, specifically when the parties in involved don't have the means to defend themselves in court. You remember when Sony battered Lik Sang into bankruptcy by drowning them in legal fees? If that can happen to a company that has considerable liquid assets, what do you think will happen to an average consumer with a family to provide for? Class action lawsuits allow multiple individual suits to be consolidated, saving both money and time. Forcing us to relinquish our class action rights is just EA's way of fending off litigation because a lone consumer isn't likely to have the financial means to stand their ground against EA's stable of corporate lawyers.
Class action lawsuits can be important, specifically when the parties in involved don't have the means to defend themselves in court. You remember when Sony battered Lik Sang into bankruptcy by drowning them in legal fees? If that can happen to a company that has considerable liquid assets, what do you think will happen to an average consumer with a family to provide for? Class action lawsuits allow multiple individual suits to be consolidated, saving both money and time. Forcing us to relinquish our class action rights is just EA's way of fending off litigation because a lone consumer isn't likely to have the financial means to stand their ground against EA's stable of corporate lawyers.
I'm in agreement with Jim here. It desperately seems that EA doesn't want any one on the pc playing BF3, or anything related to Origin for that matter. then again though most people are not gonna even know about this.
I am with CloudNune, I highly doubt this kind of thing would hold up if challenged. That said, the very fact that publishers are even trying this shit is pretty terrifying.
gamers, look at your terms of service.
look at me.
now back at your terms of service.
sadly, they aren't fair but if you stopped using STEAM, Origin and PSN and switched to board games they could be.
look down, back up, where are you?
you're in a troll post, with the troll your troll could troll like.
look at me.
now back at your terms of service.
sadly, they aren't fair but if you stopped using STEAM, Origin and PSN and switched to board games they could be.
look down, back up, where are you?
you're in a troll post, with the troll your troll could troll like.
@Everyone saying this isn't enforceable.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/21/tech/gaming-gadgets/sony-psn-terms/
tl;dr version - It's enforceable.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/21/tech/gaming-gadgets/sony-psn-terms/
tl;dr version - It's enforceable.
Aw c'mon, don't use Old Spice man for this article. Old Spice man is awesome, and this story is not.
@ManWithNoName
Yah, bad PR doesn't mean jack if people are still buying your shit. It really bums me out that EA has Mass Effect 3, because I really want to give BioWare money without having to slip EA my cash.
Yah, bad PR doesn't mean jack if people are still buying your shit. It really bums me out that EA has Mass Effect 3, because I really want to give BioWare money without having to slip EA my cash.
@gorescream
Really? Who are "they"? Your somehow above people who play madden? You only play cool games I suppose:)
Really? Who are "they"? Your somehow above people who play madden? You only play cool games I suppose:)
Meh. Like I needed yet another reason not to reinstall Origin. Keep climbing that wall of dicks, EA.
@ManWithNoName
The problem with that is that every company is doing this now. You can't participate in society without subscribing to restrictive contracts. Cell phones, credit cards and even jobs do stuff like this.
The problem with that is that every company is doing this now. You can't participate in society without subscribing to restrictive contracts. Cell phones, credit cards and even jobs do stuff like this.
@psycho you do realize that steam doesn't withhold your right to sue via class action, right? That is the point of everyone bitching. Not just railing against tos agreements in general.
@kidplus: They do this because people allow it to be done. The convenience of the service/product surpasses the problems, aparently. If the first company who did something like that suffered a loss in sales because of it, the others would not be compelled to do the same.
@shadow2398
You're absolutely right. Steam doesn't withhold your right to sue via class action. It withholds your right to legally resolve disputes in any way, shape or form whatsoever, including single-plaintiff suits, class actions, and arbitration. Behold:
EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.
You're absolutely right. Steam doesn't withhold your right to sue via class action. It withholds your right to legally resolve disputes in any way, shape or form whatsoever, including single-plaintiff suits, class actions, and arbitration. Behold:
EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.
EA hasn´t published a good game for years.
They are blaming their shitty sales on piracy and second-hand sales.
Origin is spyware. And they forbid class action suits.
Wish I could say they´ll go under.
But there are far too many retards who bend over and take it.
They are blaming their shitty sales on piracy and second-hand sales.
Origin is spyware. And they forbid class action suits.
Wish I could say they´ll go under.
But there are far too many retards who bend over and take it.
@D-Roy
Playing devil's advocate here: Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, and Mass Effect are not actually terrible games. Far from it.
Playing devil's advocate here: Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, and Mass Effect are not actually terrible games. Far from it.
@Sexualchocolate
"You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them."
Did you just come out of a six year coma?
If seeing Old Spice Guy makes you think about homosexuality, that's only natural. He is the manliest of men and even straight men would bend over for him. If he slept with our wives, we wouldn't be mad, we'd ask if he wanted to do it again.
Old Spice Guy is God....
On a horse...
Backwards.
"You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them."
Did you just come out of a six year coma?
If seeing Old Spice Guy makes you think about homosexuality, that's only natural. He is the manliest of men and even straight men would bend over for him. If he slept with our wives, we wouldn't be mad, we'd ask if he wanted to do it again.
Old Spice Guy is God....
On a horse...
Backwards.
FUCKin Hell!
CHANGE OF PLANS. This week's Tuesday Trollings will be about the continued RAPE of the game industry consumer!
Jesus, when did this kind of shit become acceptable?
CHANGE OF PLANS. This week's Tuesday Trollings will be about the continued RAPE of the game industry consumer!
Jesus, when did this kind of shit become acceptable?
@time glitch
"Jesus, when did this kind of shit become acceptable?"
Years ago. Which is why I'm finding it somewhat odd that we're just getting around to bitching about it recently.
"Jesus, when did this kind of shit become acceptable?"
Years ago. Which is why I'm finding it somewhat odd that we're just getting around to bitching about it recently.
@Time Glitch:
Most people are just unaware that these kind of things are going on. The strategy is usually to little by little allow these kind of things so people don't raise a shitstorm, and by the time it's blown out to ridiculous proportions it's too late for citizens to do anything about it. I know I've said this before, but it's the classic example of the frog not jumping out of a slowly-boiling pot of water.
@Sexualchocolate:
As a woman I have to say: No; I WILL be enjoying all these handsome shirtless male image headings, thank you very much my lad. *sips tea*
Most people are just unaware that these kind of things are going on. The strategy is usually to little by little allow these kind of things so people don't raise a shitstorm, and by the time it's blown out to ridiculous proportions it's too late for citizens to do anything about it. I know I've said this before, but it's the classic example of the frog not jumping out of a slowly-boiling pot of water.
@Sexualchocolate:
As a woman I have to say: No; I WILL be enjoying all these handsome shirtless male image headings, thank you very much my lad. *sips tea*
@Sexualchocolate:
"Can whoever it is that complains about sexy women header images just stop.
You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them."
All this is serving to do is convince me to bitch about them more, in the hope of even more 'ghey' headers.
Also, learn to spell. I'm not sure if you think changing the spelling has some mystical effect on the word, but all it's really doing is just making you look like an idiot.
"Can whoever it is that complains about sexy women header images just stop.
You realise all your complaints acheive is to drive Jimbo to find all these ghey headers. Please guys. Just take your sexy lady headers and enjoy them."
All this is serving to do is convince me to bitch about them more, in the hope of even more 'ghey' headers.
Also, learn to spell. I'm not sure if you think changing the spelling has some mystical effect on the word, but all it's really doing is just making you look like an idiot.
Dudes I don't know about North America, but in my country all ToS have a clause like this but never prevented anyone to sue everybody. You now, the law is the law and it's above any contract.
@JFF
As per the article I linked earlier, just to reiterate, it's enforceable here. The legal rulings of our Supreme Court set precedent, since their job as a legislative branch is to interpret law for application. The precedent that court sets is then referenced by all lower courts in similar cases, with the judge deciding whether or not the precedent applies on a case-by-case basis.
Given how similar the AT&T ruling is to Sony and EA's ToS changes (among many many MANY other corporations with similar ToS language), it's hard to imagine how it wouldn't be considered applicable. So yeah, it's very likely that this is, in fact, perfectly legal and binding.
As per the article I linked earlier, just to reiterate, it's enforceable here. The legal rulings of our Supreme Court set precedent, since their job as a legislative branch is to interpret law for application. The precedent that court sets is then referenced by all lower courts in similar cases, with the judge deciding whether or not the precedent applies on a case-by-case basis.
Given how similar the AT&T ruling is to Sony and EA's ToS changes (among many many MANY other corporations with similar ToS language), it's hard to imagine how it wouldn't be considered applicable. So yeah, it's very likely that this is, in fact, perfectly legal and binding.
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