As for the rape thing, I'll reserve judgement for the final game. But if gaming is now at a stage where it can handle serious subject matter like this, and handle it well, that can only be a good thing.
Still I'm looking forward to this game.
Well, first of all, I don't have a frame of reference--I wasn't a fan of the original games. Second, having played Diablo III there is now nothing more annoying to me, voice acting wise, than that insipid Enchantress. It will take a lot to bug me having suffered through her dialogue countless hours at a time.
@Chewiejds
I didn't complain about it because I find the whole thing beyond stupid. I appreciate that gamers are more in tune to character exploitation, especially with Lara, but in this case feels like gamer guilt. I did not find her gasps, moans, or guttural yelps to be sexual in any way--and I'm actually attracted to women. I also can sniff out bullshit a mile away. At no point in the production of this game do I think the developers looked at each other and said, "We better make sure there's lots of moaning; fans really need to know what she might sound like if she were having an orgasm during a tennis match." While it may have been deliberate in the past, and for that I understand why fans bring it up, I don't feel it's the case now.
Such a beautiful example of gamers' constant misinterpretation of any criticism they see in this industry. Feeling uncomfortable with a scene is not the same as getting "butthurt". It is not becoming a moral crusader for what content should or shouldn't be in video games. It's not even being overly sensitive. It's simply feeling uneasy when a character you care about is in a situation you find repugnant. The fictional situation had an impact on them. It was meant to. That they acknowledge it is not a threat to your vidyagaemes.
Yes, actually. I was directing my comment at the people who ARE getting butthurt over this scene - they may not be in the comments here, but all over the web there are plenty of people screaming BAN THIS SICK FILTH. Ignorance on your part for assuming that these people "care" about the character in question. There are a lot of people saying that they've lost interest in the game, respect for the developers and a ton of other shit for including such a disturbing prospect and scene in the game.
I'm not saying people aren't entitled to feel disturbed or uneasy at that. Reading about it and picturing it, I'm not wearing a five mile smile, clapping with glee and laughing hysterically at a fictional character facing sexual assault. I don't deny that it's disturbing and that it could really mess with the victims of sexual assault.
But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there and that Crystal Dynamics are dickheads for including something that could offend or bring up negative images in some of their audience.
It's the same as the people who wanted A Clockwork Orange banned because of the rape scene in that movie. It was disturbing as fuck, controversial but still an amazing scene as it put forth important themes that the creator wanted there. It served a purpose, it added to the narrative. It's not there to freak out victims of sexual assault or shock factor (perhaps) and no sensible person should claim it HAS to be removed because they don't like it.
Just like here, as you described it contributes to Lara becoming the heroine she is. Overcoming bad situations, growing into a woman. THAT is what the developers want to portray, what they're doing with THEIR character. It's their priority. Hand holding other people who might conflict with their vision is NOT.
Offense doesn't give you entitlement over something.
I don't know, I love Tomb Raider since I was a little kid and I'm not sure if I'm okay with them discarding the 16 years of TR history, even if not all the pieces from the series always perfectly matched.
It's still my most anticipated game and day one buy, but that info kind of made me sad.
That and no supernatural elements, it has always been a huge factor in the story and setting.
That's rather negative. I'm more than aware that there are a few people who nitpick just to nitpick but to suggest it is ignorance instead of optimism or just plain observation is a bit mean. I know for a fact that some people who expressed their discomfort did not simultaneously hold the opinion that we should remove the scene altogether.
All the same I'm glad you came back and clarified because as it stands, we agree with each other perfectly. I might not have understood that from your first comment.
I was holding out hope that it was just a badly mishandled trailer, but let's take it from the horse's mouth. Over on Kotaku, Rosenberg says the following:
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"
"She's definitely the hero but— you're kind of like her helper. When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character."
"The ability to see her as a human is even more enticing to me than the more sexualized version of yesteryear. She literally goes from zero to hero... we're sort of building her up and just when she gets confident, we break her down again."
To quote Kotaku again: 'In the new Tomb Raider, Lara Croft will suffer. Her best friend will be kidnapped. She'll get taken prisoner by island scavengers. And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her.'
"She is literally turned into a cornered animal. It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die."
Rosenberg also compared it to the origin story of Spiderman or Batman.
...godamnit, Crystal Dynamics - and double fuck-you to Square-Enix, for pulling this shit AGAIN after The 3rd Birthday. After Samus' and Aya's character assassinations, how dare you do this to Lara Freakin' Croft as well. Lara, Samus and Zelda are the big iconic three female characters of gaming (which is a pitiful amount to begin with). Zelda's always slid between a bit of a damsel princess stereotype (I say this loving Zelda), and an interesting, more unique character - and is rarely a playable character on top of that. What do we have we have left now that Lara and Samus are gone, huh?
No game studio would ever say, 'I want to protect Cloud. There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going on this adventure and I want to protect him'.'
'He's definitely the hero, but - you're kind of like Kratos' helper.'
'We're sorta building Dante up, and when he gets confident, we break him down again.'
'Link is literally turned into a cornered animal. It's a huge step in his evolution: he's forced to either fight back or die.'
Spiderman, Batman, James Bond - whatever bullshit comparison has been made in the past by the developers to justify this - did NOT go through this in order to gain their strength. This is absolutely ludicrous. I was trying to give Crystal Dynamics the benefit of the doubt, hoping it was just a fuck-up from the advertising department, but nope.
You know what, Rosenberg? Thank you for letting me realise that I will indeed take the sexualised Lara of yesteryear. I will take her confidence, her bravery, her humour, her intelligence. I will take her no bullshit attitude. I will take the fact she went a decade and a half gaining these attributes without needing to be 'helped' by the player, without needing to be broken down to an 'animal', without needing rape as a part of her new traumatic back story she draws strength from. She got all those things without any of this bullshit.
How can y'all be okay with this? This is what Lara Motherfucking Croft is reduced to, in the name of character development. You're her HELPER. Lara Motherfucking Croft needs a HELPER. Every male protagonist has done just fine without the player being their 'helper', why the hell did we need to start now? It's not only nauseating, but absolutely insulting.
I was holding out hope that it was just a badly mishandled trailer, but let's take it from the horse's mouth. Over on Kotaku, Rosenberg says the following:
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"
"She's definitely the hero but— you're kind of like her helper. When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character."
"The ability to see her as a human is even more enticing to me than the more sexualized version of yesteryear. She literally goes from zero to hero... we're sort of building her up and just when she gets confident, we break her down again."
To quote Kotaku again: 'In the new Tomb Raider, Lara Croft will suffer. Her best friend will be kidnapped. She'll get taken prisoner by island scavengers. And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her.'
"She is literally turned into a cornered animal. It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die."
Rosenberg also compared it to the origin story of Spiderman or Batman.
...godamnit, Crystal Dynamics - and double fuck-you to Square-Enix, for pulling this shit AGAIN after The 3rd Birthday. After Samus' and Aya's character assassinations, how dare you do this to Lara Freakin' Croft as well. Lara, Samus and Zelda are the big iconic three female characters of gaming (which is a pitiful amount to begin with). Zelda's always slid between a bit of a damsel princess stereotype (I say this loving Zelda), and an interesting, more unique character - and is rarely a playable character on top of that. What do we have we have left now that Lara and Samus are gone, huh?
No game studio would ever say, 'I want to protect Cloud. There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going on this adventure and I want to protect him'.'
'He's definitely the hero, but - you're kind of like Kratos' helper.'
'We're sorta building Dante up, and when he gets confident, we break him down again.'
'Link is literally turned into a cornered animal. It's a huge step in his evolution: he's forced to either fight back or die.'
Spiderman, Batman, James Bond - whatever bullshit comparison has been made in the past by the developers to justify this - did NOT go through this in order to gain their strength. This is absolutely ludicrous. I was trying to give Crystal Dynamics the benefit of the doubt, hoping it was just a fuck-up from the advertising department, but nope.
You know what, Rosenberg? Thank you for letting me realise that I will indeed take the sexualised Lara of yesteryear. I will take her confidence, her bravery, her humour, her intelligence. I will take her no bullshit attitude. I will take the fact she went a decade and a half gaining these attributes without needing to be 'helped' by the player, without needing to be broken down to an 'animal', without needing rape as a part of her new traumatic back story she draws strength from. She got all those things without any of this bullshit.
How can y'all be okay with this? This is what Lara Motherfucking Croft is reduced to, in the name of character development. You're her HELPER. Lara Motherfucking Croft needs a HELPER. Every male protagonist has done just fine without the player being their 'helper', why the hell did we need to start now? It's not only nauseating, but absolutely insulting.
(Crystal Dynamics, you want to make a riveting tale about a young, inexperienced girl growing into her strength and learning about herself as she goes? Go watch Legend of Korra, and try the ever loving fuck again.)
I read that Kotaku article myself and you know what I see? A wild misinterpretation based on what people choose to believe. The lead in to that quote up there about protection? The author of the article ASKED him what the CHALLENGES were in creating a female character. He said that people wanting to protect her was a challenge in designing her character. It is not his fault if people instinctively see women as so weak that they need assistance in the saving themselves department.
Frankly that it's coming from Kotaku should tell you everything you need to know about the sincerity of the angle from which it was written.
They share a title, and that's about it.
That said, I was never a fan of the Tomb Raider series. Maybe this game will change my mind.
Unfortunately, the dialogue is very weak; no-one, especially us Brits, actually talks like that. Worse, the voice acting just isn't good enough to match the seriousness of the story they're trying to tell. I'm actually less excited after seeing this trailer.

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