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Dynasty Warriors producer answers the critics photo

Next Generation has an interesting little interview up with Dynasty Warriors producer Ken Matsumoto, who discusses the latest in the series, Dynasty Warriors 6 (released in the US this month) and has one or two things to say about the criticism that gets heaped on Koei's millions-selling franchise.

Like Zhang Fei fending off the pursuing Wei forces at Chang Ban, Matsumoto expressed dismay at the way the series is gleefully savaged by reviewers, and points out the fallacies that he believes they use when complaining. When asked what criticisms especially annoy him, Matsumoto had this to say:

"Sometimes I feel annoyed. Comparing us to Halo, which I’ve seen on one occasion, is stupid – they’re just different. Games are often criticized on what they’re not rather than what they are. People got annoyed with Wii Sports because it didn’t have league tables, or allow you to have a three-wood in golf, or something, and it’s a brilliant game that’s simply not interested in offering those things.

With Dynasty Warriors we might feel the negative criticism isn’t fair, but when there have been a few sequels it’s hard to turn those opinions around. You’ll sometimes read something that doesn’t mention any of the new things in the game, then says it hasn’t done anything new, and you wonder: was it even played for more than 20 minutes? Perhaps people think, ‘Oh, that can fill up half a page’, and just give it to someone who doesn’t know the subtleties of this particular game – and when you get into an iterative series, subtlety is where the value lies."

Although there's no defense for releasing countless sequels (outside of the obvious one that people will buy them), he makes a fair point. Fact is, titles like Warriors Orochi and the Empires spin-offs are deeper, more interesting games that develop the series, but are often quickly derided as the same old pap. The fact a strategy game like Bladestorm was dismissed as another Dynasty Warriors by some professionals indicates that they don't even bother playing Koei titles, which is a shame (someone at Koei once thanked me for taking the time to actually play it fully for our review). Of course, DW games are never going to be anything more than niche outside of Japan, so Matsumoto really shouldn't worry too much. At least the Japanese releases rake Koei oodles of cash.


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Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 18:50
Holy Fuck, Dynasty Warriors 6 comes out this month? And my 360 is fucked? GOD DAMMIT!!

Screwed over again....
EternalDeathSlayer's Avatar
EternalDeathSlayer at 02/11/2008 18:52
Although there's no defense for releasing countless sequels (outside of the obvious one that people will buy them}

That's a damn good defense, methinks.
Y0j1mb0's Avatar
Y0j1mb0 at 02/11/2008 18:56
Jim:

On a serious note, How do the Dynasty Warriors Series fare in sales here compared to overseas?? I mean if they're not selling here I wonder why they put it out here. Not dissing the game just curious.

BTW: I'll be picking it up this time. I need a hack n slash affair as FPS are getting BOOOORIIING.
Wedge's Avatar
Wedge at 02/11/2008 19:01
They release them here because it's cheap. I bet they pay the voice actors with drinks. AND IT'S AWESOME.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 19:01
Reaprar: Actually it's more a case of "you're not playing it at all."
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 19:25
Dynasty Warriors is a terrific series will loads of fans for good reasons. It's a fun, simple game that is very addicting due to the RPG elements. Also consider that there are multiple characters with their own fighting style and weapons to find that make your character even more massive.

I could go on, but if what I described above doesn't sound interesting to you, I would question you on what you think is a fun game.
Crapsh00t's Avatar
Crapsh00t at 02/11/2008 19:32
Maybe I'm being a bit broad, but with Dynasty Warriors it feels like I can play every 3rd of 4th iteration of the series and feel like I'm not missing anything. Maybe that's where the Halo comparison would be accurate. (zing!)
Kyousuke Nanbu's Avatar
Kyousuke Nanbu at 02/11/2008 19:38
This sort of thinking reminds me of something a lot of reviewers do, they talk about flaws in certain titles and really scrutinize them then you have a more high profile game with the exact same flaws and it never gets mentioned.

DW is very niche and there's so many of them that it seems a lot of reviewers just don't care about making the effort for a review on them.
Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 19:38
LoL, Reaprar, you're so mad for silly reasons
Origim's Avatar
Origim at 02/11/2008 19:42
@Jim: Do you think someone who has never played a Koei title enjoy DW6 or is it to far along in the series?
Vigor's Avatar
Vigor at 02/11/2008 19:42
I love the dynasty warriors series since dynasty warriors 2 on the ps2. It's just a ton of fun i remember the first two games i brought home when i got my ps2, were gta3 and dynasty warriors. I dont know i will always play them so fuck reviews. To me dynasty warriors is one of the funnest games to play co-op.
Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 19:46
@Origim

For me, Dynasty Warriors is just about jumping in a large field and beating the fuck out of crowds of retards. I think anyone could jump in the series anytime, doesn't matter what number is on the end at all.
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 19:47
Reaprar is a joke, an internet punk if you will. I'd say about 95% of his comments are just negative jabs at others. I can't think of one time he had something positive to say about a game he liked.

Also, Reaprar bashing this game is funny. He clearing can't debate. All he brings to the table is name calling. Classy.
MrHappySunshine's Avatar
MrHappySunshine at 02/11/2008 19:48
I think the worst Hippocrates of this whole thing are the reviewers that don't treat the Madden games the same way... Madden 08 is almost the same game as 07 as is the previous to the year before that. They consistently give them good grades without the same "OMG its anotha foootbawl why don't they try someting new?!" that they do with the latest Dynasty Warriors. They bitch and cry that Dynasty Warriors doesn't have features that many other good games don't have. The worst argument that I've heard is that if you own an older version of the game it's the same as the newest... NO it's not the newer one has consistently been better if you'd just quit you bitching play the damn game.
MrHappySunshine's Avatar
MrHappySunshine at 02/11/2008 19:50
Oh and I have to agree coop on Dynasty Warriors games is fucking badass theres nothing like playing with a good friend and seeing who can kill most baddies
Vigor's Avatar
Vigor at 02/11/2008 19:53
I know funnest is not a word i just thought destructoid was free of internet tough guys. Oh well =(
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:00
When did Reaprar stop being cool?

I don't have a problem with people disliking the DW games. If I got upset every time someone attacked it, I'd be Emodrox. What I'm saying though, is that the people who attack the games don't PLAY them. It's just cool to bag on Koei games. Like I say, I was thanked because I actually played Bladestorm. Not played "properly" like the Lair stuff -- I actually bothered to keep the disc spinning for more than ten minutes.

Fact is, the DW games innovate about as much as the Final Fantasy games have, and people are all up on FF games' nuts. Shmups have no AI, and all you do is bash a button, and those are hailed as hardcore gaming Gods. But that's fine, it's a matter of taste.

I play up the DW fanboyism for entertainment purposes, but I honestly don't give a shit who dislikes the series. I love the games and don't need the love of others to re-affirm my own enjoyment. I do, however, think that Ken has a point when it comes to comparisons and people calling games like Orochi "more of the same," when it innovated the series about as much as most long running sequels did.

Above all though, I see no comments made in this thread that warrant you launching a rather unfair diatribe against everyone, Reaprar.
Tino's Avatar
Tino at 02/11/2008 20:00
Reaprar, for the life of me I can't tell why you're BBCode didn't quite take for that italic portion.


Moving on,

Jim this is a fun reminder for two reasons.
1) I need to go out and play Bladestorm. That demo was AWESOME.
2) I'm really excited for Dynasty Warriors 6. Does this one even have online play? I hope it does. Although truthfully, I don't care. I'll buy it anyway.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:03
Origim: You can jump in at any time. Because they're based on the one historical novel, most DW games have the same plot. I'd say wait until my review copy of DW6 finally arrives so I can have enough time with its new renbu system to see if it's worthy of recommendation.
mistic's Avatar
mistic at 02/11/2008 20:09
I really like DW-games, never got what all the bashing was all about :-)

sure you do the same moves over and over, but what about a racing game? you can only go back an forth and right and left with a car and yet it is a great concept to do it for hours on end... same thing with DW-series :-) the 'basics' might seem a little restricted, but once you get into the flow and get the games, they're brilliant :-)
Bioautographical's Avatar
Bioautographical at 02/11/2008 20:11
You know, I'm really glad that I typically don't judge the many on the actions of a few, because if I did, I'd think the lot of gamers were all whiny fucking jerks.

I mean, Jesus Christ, people. Because someone doesn't share your personal opinion on game X, that means he's a hypocrite for having a personal opinion of game Y.

Do people just stake their manhood or penis size on how many people like a game or console or whatever else they do? Am I fucking missing something here? Here's a thought: play the games you like. Don't play the games you don't. It's really that simple.
Mister Disco's Avatar
Mister Disco at 02/11/2008 20:11
Matsumoto put it better than I could: "when you get into an iterative series, subtlety is where the value lies".

Any fan of iterative series can tell you every minor change can either make or break it. Look at sports games (a tried and true example for me). Nobody complains that, year after year, football is still football. Madden goes through subtle changes that a fan can tell you, makes one year good and the next year terrible. But the overall gameplay remains the same, and that's okay. Most people understand this, and accept it. Few people afford the same understanding towards DW and it's various spin-offs because they don't understand that the game isn't supposed to be totally different every year.

@Reaprar

Aren't you generalizing a bit? I'm not a Halo fan but I have never bashed it for being anything more than a solid shooter with way too much hype behind it. I like what I like because I played it and liked it. I've been playing DW games since DW2. I like the series. I didn't start liking it because it wasn't mainstream, or because Jim liked it.

We DW fans sort-of rally around Jim because frankly, fans of the series rarely have any sort of representation in gaming communities. We're usually bashed and flamed and shunned into our little pockets of fandom. Frankly if it weren't for Jim our games wouldn't get coverage on Dtoid at all, I believe. There's still plenty of haters here, just read the comments on nearly anything KOEI related. There's a difference between people "coming out of the woodwork" so to speak, to show support for their favorite games, and simply pretending to like something because, somehow, it became trendy. And frankly I don't think we're there quite yet, at any rate. The day DW becomes trendy I might just pull the sheets back over my head and go back to bed, as clearly I'm still dreaming.

Personally, I like tons of mainstream games. I have what I consider a "versatile" set of favorite games. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Just because someone doesn't dig every single mainstream title doesn't mean that everyone here should be lumped into some arbitrary grouping.
Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 20:11
@Reaprer

"I just find the whole thing fucking disgusting, the gaming community is really biased at the moment, hating anything that's 'mainstream' and then loving the less mentioned games, you're as bad as fuckin' emos, the lot of you, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED."

LoL, I don't even know how to respond to that.... It's just a silly rant. I'm not sure if you're serious or not.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:17
Reaprar: You are being so ... angry, and I have no understanding where it came from, other than the fact you seem almost insanely bitter about Halo for some reason.

Anyway, I hated Halo, and it wasn't for any of the reasons you've accused us all of giving. I just didn't think it was very fun, in the same way you didn't think DW was fun. Am I going to attack you for not liking a game? Hell no, personal tastes are personal tastes. We're all biased, at the end of the day.

For real though, calm down. I still don't get why you essentially flipped out on everyone.
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 20:17
however I found halo 3 fun for a while, and now I play it when friends are over and such, but I digest.

LOLOL U NOB LOL LERN UR GRAMMRZ
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 20:21
This is relevant to my interests
God Len's Avatar
God Len at 02/11/2008 20:22
how did a person like Reaprar get married?
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:23
"Few people afford the same understanding towards DW and it's various spin-offs because they don't understand that the game isn't supposed to be totally different every year. "

And really, what sequels ARE totally different? DMC4 practically IS the original DMC. Most of the Zelda games pan out in exactly the same way. Fact is, DW6 has a different fighting system, completely overhauled movesets and characters, and numerous other tweaks including an adaptive AI. However, the reviews WILL still brush it off as "more of the same," and that, my friends, is where the real hypocrisy lies, as yet another JRPG that sticks to conventions founded in the fucking eighties gets another 9.0.

And again, not that JRPGs, if good, don't deserve a high score despite its archaic game design. But it IS archaic, and nobody raises an eyebrow.
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 20:32
Koei try to keep the warriors system fresh...every game adds something, whether graphically, play-wise or extra stuff they chuck in. Orochi introduced player switching and that was fun for a whirl, even though it was basically two games smooshed together. Samurai warriors has a lot of stuff going for it that Dynasty doesnt as well, like the sengoruko mode (which is one of my favourite game elements to ever come out of any of the games). Just because it is based on the same story people bash it, assuming it will be the same game. But its not. Zelda isnt. FF isnt. Its just too easy for people to bash it without going past the 'ohh look another game where I wear down the X button once more' and theres a hell of a lot more to it than that.

Also Lu Bu will destroy anyone who says otherwise.
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 20:34
@ reaprar

arent there essentially only one or two goals to any game?
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 20:36
Each iteration of Dynasty Warriors released get tweaks and subtle additions that add to an already impressive game. The gameplay has been solid and fun since I jumped into the series at the PS2 launch with Dynasty Warriors 2.

With Dynasty Warriors 6, long-time fan's are seeing changes accross the board. I know I wasn't the only fan who was excited after learning you could now climb ladders and swim. The draw distance is very much improved compared to the past games. In a recent video you can see snow covered mountains in the distance. This is a very nice change considering we're so used to seeing fog.

When I see people hate on Dynasty Warriors, I automatically put them in the same group with people who hate on EA, Madden, Halo, or anything else in gaming that is popular/well known. We ultimately play games to have fun and get an immediate sense of accomplishment. Dynasty Warriors is a game to delivers these things. Are we as gamers so jaded, that we find reasons to hate on anything and everything? Even if the only reason we're hating on something is because it doesn't appeal to us?
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:38
Reaprar: And that's your personal opinion. I fail to see why we are disgusting hypocrites for having a different one.
Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 20:40
@Reaprar

That's Dynasty Warriors, if you don't like it, then don't play it. There aren't a lot of games like Dynasty Warriors out there, so when I want to play that style of game, I play Dynasty Warriors. It's not like it's a big budget game or anything, it's just Dynasty Warriors.
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 20:45
I played through N3 on the 360 and I enjoyed it, but it doesn't come close to providing the same fun-factor that Dynasty Warriors offers. There is truly something special about the Dynasty Warriors series that no immitator has come close to matching.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 20:47
"which is fine if you like that kind of thing, but don't try and defend it from people that say it's just like halo 3, because it is"

Actually, I got from the interview that he was annoyed by people saying DW was NOT Halo, not that it was like it. Like, people making unfair comparisons between two fundamentally different games. I think that's a fair point. Like he said, don't attack a game for what it's NOT, just stick to what it IS and attack that.
Dr Milkdad's Avatar
Dr Milkdad at 02/11/2008 20:48
It's Dynasty Warriors BITCH!
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 20:49
@ Reaprar

lol, I agree that getting excited about climbing ladders and swimming in a video game nowadays is pretty silly, but it really is awesome! I'm gonna say it's too hard to explain. You have your opinion on Dynasty Warriors and that's fine, I respect that.
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 20:54
Ok.....can only really say examples from games ive played - Zelda: Save Princess, Pikmin:GTFO planet, Portal: escape, Most fps with some form of alien bad guy: save world, Most forms of fps with some form of terrorist badguy: kill terrorists, save world, Most forms of fps set in WW1 & 2: Kill germans, win war, most RTS: make your team win (exception:Starcraft, because no-one wins against fuck of bug things) and I could go on but the point is - theres usually only one premise to most games, and the game is built up around this premise, DW is no different, and is in many respects similar to WW FPS games - its based on history so you know whos going to win. But the thing with Dynasty warriors is that if you play certain characters who did die in history, history is rewritten.
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 20:56
@ VWGTI:

Dont woz....I was excited to hear this too. Also, teams of siege peoples :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 02/11/2008 21:07
"But the thing with Dynasty warriors is that if you play certain characters who did die in history, history is rewritten."

Yep. In fact, you wait and see what Sima Yi does in DW6. Accidentally read his ending (I think), and let me tell you, he is moar badass than ever. :-)
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 21:16
Does he smack down some whales with his finger whips?you want different...ILL GIVE YOU DIFFERENT *and all that can be heard is the sounds of whales in their final death throws*

God damn it...either im going to have to pay a fortune in trips home to play on my mates PS3 or im going to have to get one myself. Ehh I guess I have uni to keep me occupied until then. That and Jim teasing me with his free copy.

WHY JESUSS WHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Noah's Avatar
Noah at 02/11/2008 21:18
Man, you won't see more Dynasty Warriors coverage anywhere else than at Dtoid. My gut tells me Matsumoto didn't say this, but that it was ripped from Jim's Live Journal. Current Mood- Sad :(


All joking aside, I am honestly one of the many that 'hasn't' actually played many of the sequels. I loved 2 and 3, but I'm also a budget gamer. I've never owned two Dynasty Warriors games at the same time, and I'd trade old ones in for new ones, because they're pretty much the same. Not exactly the same, I thought it was cool in 4(?) how you could customize your generals that fought beside you, little things like that made it cool, but the experience for me wasn't really any different than the one before.

I can't afford to sink $60 into a new DW game every time they make a subtle change to the gameplay.

AFter Dynasty Warriors 6 comes out, I'd be pissed if they put out a DW6:Empires 6 months later for like $40, when it could easily be a $10 downloadable content.
Necros's Avatar
Necros at 02/11/2008 21:20
What's that Jim? I can't hear your valid points over the sound of me shouting "YOU PLAY DYNASTY WARRIORS HAHAHA" at the top of my lungs.

:)
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 21:23
They almost certainly will bring out a DW6:Xtreme Legends. If theres one gripe I could make about the DW series, its that.
Drift64's Avatar
Drift64 at 02/11/2008 21:23
You know the last time I played dynasty warriors was the first one on ps1 where it was purely a fighting game. Maybe I should start playing the other version...
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 21:24
Just for fun, a look at both Dynasty Warriors 2 and Dynasty Warriors 6.

DW2




DW6





Sorry if this breaks your blog, Jim.
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 21:26
Ugh, pictures failed. Glad the didn't break the blog though. Live and learn.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar
Samit Sarkar at 02/11/2008 21:37
@Silverhertz, Jim: Yeah, that’s why I always keep coming back to the Dynasty Warriors games. I love history in general, and setting these epic battles — with thousands of soldiers on each side — against the historical backdrop of the Romance of the Three Kindgoms novel is what makes the series so appealing to me. Your review copy can’t arrive fast enough, Jim!
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 02/11/2008 21:38
Zhang Jim looks upon your picture failure with disdain.



Im only one man jim...it was only so long I could hold back in a DW thread before posting this...
VWGTI's Avatar
VWGTI at 02/11/2008 21:39
lol @ Silver
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