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Protecting your game would be making a game worth buying, not fucking over people who legitimately buy your product.
They really believe that gamers who thought 'Hey, looks okay, I'll try this game used' have enough interest to go : OMFG now I have to buy it new because of the DRM, take my money, Ubisoft, TAKE MY MONEY!!! This game looks so 'meh' I cannot bear to pass on this one!!!
Someone, somewhere, lives in a fantasy world or something...
Someone, somewhere, lives in a fantasy world or something...
@putz: No it doesn't, people who plan to pirate are going to pirate it even if it takes a month for the crack to release.
The dev though is is retarded as hell no one ever said that they don't have a right to protect their own product, they said we're not buying something with such a shitty way of protecting it. If a bank strip searches you every time you walk in the door are you going to do business with that bank for very long?
@Jamnontheone - MMOs have nothing to do with it.
MMOs are online-only because you're supposed to be playing the game online with other people and its kind of hard to go offline and do everything solo yourself that you could do online. That and balancing out rarity of gear and whatnot. Rares should be rare, you know?
I don't need a constant online connection for Driver, Diablo III or many other games. Its a pain in the ass when you get kicked from your MMO for losing a connection, but's that's the beginning and end of it, its not some evil scheme to prove my loyalty like what Driver is doing.
MMOs are online-only because you're supposed to be playing the game online with other people and its kind of hard to go offline and do everything solo yourself that you could do online. That and balancing out rarity of gear and whatnot. Rares should be rare, you know?
I don't need a constant online connection for Driver, Diablo III or many other games. Its a pain in the ass when you get kicked from your MMO for losing a connection, but's that's the beginning and end of it, its not some evil scheme to prove my loyalty like what Driver is doing.
"[The online pass is] just one of those things we have to get used to."
I assume he's using the royal "we" here because I've gotten used to not buying Ubisoft games.
I assume he's using the royal "we" here because I've gotten used to not buying Ubisoft games.
I 100% agree with him on the fact that they see nothing from used sales. If you cheap bastards don't want to support the people who made the game, and instead line the pockets of the scum bag corporations like GameStop, who are making out like bandits by selling used games for almost new game prices, you don't have any right to complain about *anything*. Used game sales are what are really hurting the industry. If you buy used you're just contributing to the problem.
@302mike
..... you really think that if Used sales vanished overnight that the online pass would vanish? NO what would happen is the Online pass would still be required but nolonger bundled with the initial purchase. Which I suspect will be the case in a few years anyhow.
You talk about scum bag corporations like somehow the game publishers are not included in those ranks. We would get some round about PR schpeel about how "we need to keep the passes to insure a quality customer experience" because you know they are totally doing it with our best interests at heart...
Honestly the only time I bother with Gamestop is when
A) they are having a BXGX used game sale (that's really the only time used makes sense to me)
B) the game in question is so old that I couldn't find it New if I tried but not quite old enough that dredging around ebay is necessary.
but $3-5 off at gamestop..... I'd just as soon buy new from Amazon.
However I admit to being a horrible person because I won't buy most games at full price, I'll wait for a sale or a few price drops because frankly, and you can quote me on this "If your game doesn't make the grade... it isn't worth MSRP".
That said there are a select few games that I will go out of my way to buy launch week and even fewer games that I will actually pre-order.
At the end of the day all the passes really represent is publishers seeing that the used market is huge because their games do not have sufficient quality, their price point is too high and they are saying "Me Too!". Instead of fixing any of the inherent issues on their end.
..... you really think that if Used sales vanished overnight that the online pass would vanish? NO what would happen is the Online pass would still be required but nolonger bundled with the initial purchase. Which I suspect will be the case in a few years anyhow.
You talk about scum bag corporations like somehow the game publishers are not included in those ranks. We would get some round about PR schpeel about how "we need to keep the passes to insure a quality customer experience" because you know they are totally doing it with our best interests at heart...
Honestly the only time I bother with Gamestop is when
A) they are having a BXGX used game sale (that's really the only time used makes sense to me)
B) the game in question is so old that I couldn't find it New if I tried but not quite old enough that dredging around ebay is necessary.
but $3-5 off at gamestop..... I'd just as soon buy new from Amazon.
However I admit to being a horrible person because I won't buy most games at full price, I'll wait for a sale or a few price drops because frankly, and you can quote me on this "If your game doesn't make the grade... it isn't worth MSRP".
That said there are a select few games that I will go out of my way to buy launch week and even fewer games that I will actually pre-order.
At the end of the day all the passes really represent is publishers seeing that the used market is huge because their games do not have sufficient quality, their price point is too high and they are saying "Me Too!". Instead of fixing any of the inherent issues on their end.
302mike: I strongly disagree. It's not our duty to support game-makers by creating artificial demand for their games and you don't get to dictate who has the right to complain about what.
@302mike
I've specifically bought any game with an online pass used and not bought any DLC for them. They're the scum for putting it on, not me or the "large corporations" I buy from (individuals on eBay)
I've specifically bought any game with an online pass used and not bought any DLC for them. They're the scum for putting it on, not me or the "large corporations" I buy from (individuals on eBay)
I'm really sick of DRM -- I bought a laptop for gaming, and I'm almost starting to regret it.
Besides, isn't it the 360 that has all its games leaked online before they're even released? I've been under the impression that 360 piracy is just as bad as PC piracy, yet no one talks about that.
Besides, isn't it the 360 that has all its games leaked online before they're even released? I've been under the impression that 360 piracy is just as bad as PC piracy, yet no one talks about that.
"If people don't buy the game when it first comes out and wait and pay for rental or for second-hand usage, then the publisher sees absolutely nothing of that."
What a shithead.
Seriously. There's so much wrong with the above statement. Poking holes in this isn't even worth my time. What a terrible, terrible mentality for a company to have.
I always like to look at ubisoft as the anti-Valve.
What a shithead.
Seriously. There's so much wrong with the above statement. Poking holes in this isn't even worth my time. What a terrible, terrible mentality for a company to have.
I always like to look at ubisoft as the anti-Valve.
@302mike : They still got their money for that copy of the game. Used and rental games don't appear out of nowhere, they've been bought once to start with. Actually, they have more chance of selling a game if someone rents it and ends up enjoying it and creates some word of mouth within his/her circle of friends.
I've bought MANY games brand new because I did rent those first. And when I love a game, you can bet I don't want to buy it used.
But sometimes, there are games that I would never have tried if it were not at a used game price (Persona 3, for example). Because I did buy a used copy and fell in love with the game, Atlus now has a most loyal customer with me, one customer who will gladly pre-order most of their games from the SMT universe.
I've bought MANY games brand new because I did rent those first. And when I love a game, you can bet I don't want to buy it used.
But sometimes, there are games that I would never have tried if it were not at a used game price (Persona 3, for example). Because I did buy a used copy and fell in love with the game, Atlus now has a most loyal customer with me, one customer who will gladly pre-order most of their games from the SMT universe.
The solution to this crap is so incredibly simple that I get the impression neither the publisher or developer are playing any games at all.
Stop punishing paying customers, give paying customers a real valuable incentive to buy it new -- other than "online passes", which is ridiculous because it takes away instead of adds functionality -- and then lower the price thanks to all the money saved on DRM licensing. More people will buy it new, and pirates will get the game anyway as always. Oh, and of course, make a GOOD GAME WORTH PAYING FOR TO BEGIN WITH. Finally, what I (or the video games shops for that matter) do with my games (=my property) after I've paid for them is neither the developers' or the publishers' (definitely not the publishers) business. 'Nuff said.
Stop punishing paying customers, give paying customers a real valuable incentive to buy it new -- other than "online passes", which is ridiculous because it takes away instead of adds functionality -- and then lower the price thanks to all the money saved on DRM licensing. More people will buy it new, and pirates will get the game anyway as always. Oh, and of course, make a GOOD GAME WORTH PAYING FOR TO BEGIN WITH. Finally, what I (or the video games shops for that matter) do with my games (=my property) after I've paid for them is neither the developers' or the publishers' (definitely not the publishers) business. 'Nuff said.
By the way, who'll bet on the amount of time it'll take until publishers (read Ubisoft) start including "install passes" instead of "online passes", which you'll need to be able to play the game at all, no matter what platform?
i'd like to point out that physical goods depriciate over time and use, they suffer wear and tear, thus creating a sub-market for a cheaper, albeit used product. Digital content, be it a dvd, game, download, etc, does not depreiciate in that code lasts in its written form (practically speaking) forever. digital content is still realatively new and still in process of legislation becasue it is a rather slippery slope. i am a professional musician for example, and when i sell an mp3, i am essentially selling a customer the right to listen to the work i haev created whenever they want. obviously i cant set up an orchestra in their house so i send them an mp3, however this does not mean that for 99 cents they can resell this to anyone they see fit. i'd be broke and years of work would have zero value, and i would never have released the digital version of my work in the first place. i think the online-check DRM is much more so a nuisance to paying customers than a hindrance to pirates, as seems to be the concensus here, however, i am very much in support of some form of security on the publishers end, and online multiplayer passes i think are the best solution, at least that i haev heard. it's ridiculous to say that a game is not "worth"60 bucks and should therefor be pirated, if its not worth the asking price of the publisher, then buy 60 flippin' mcdollar sandwiches instead, for christ's sake.
@ElReminator
That entire first paragraph can be applied to piracy. The uploader bought the game before they shared it with the world, so it's fine that they lose all those other sells to the leaches, right? They saw money off of that shit. And plenty of people pirate a game just to make sure its worth a fuck before actually buying it. Does that mean the dev has no right to complain about it?
I have no problem with used sales, personally, but I think they are just as bad as piracy as far as getting money to the people who actually made the game in the first place. There are plenty of people who buy used games who never would have paid full price and there are plenty of people who pirate who never would have bought the game. But the people who would have bought the game at full price, were there no other option, is pretty much a lost sale. And used games going for $5 less than MSRP just days after release is one hell of a burn for developers, I'm sure.
Anyway, that said, fuck Ubisoft and their stupid DRM. The fact that they haven't figured out that their bullshit isn't stopping piracy is simply mind blowing.
That entire first paragraph can be applied to piracy. The uploader bought the game before they shared it with the world, so it's fine that they lose all those other sells to the leaches, right? They saw money off of that shit. And plenty of people pirate a game just to make sure its worth a fuck before actually buying it. Does that mean the dev has no right to complain about it?
I have no problem with used sales, personally, but I think they are just as bad as piracy as far as getting money to the people who actually made the game in the first place. There are plenty of people who buy used games who never would have paid full price and there are plenty of people who pirate who never would have bought the game. But the people who would have bought the game at full price, were there no other option, is pretty much a lost sale. And used games going for $5 less than MSRP just days after release is one hell of a burn for developers, I'm sure.
Anyway, that said, fuck Ubisoft and their stupid DRM. The fact that they haven't figured out that their bullshit isn't stopping piracy is simply mind blowing.
Well fuck you then.
I won't be buying Driver this year. There are plenty of other overpriced games that don't have to have you by the hairs just to play your game.
I'm not spending 60 bucks to a company that believes this crockload of shit. Especially when my interest in the game was low already.
I won't be buying Driver this year. There are plenty of other overpriced games that don't have to have you by the hairs just to play your game.
I'm not spending 60 bucks to a company that believes this crockload of shit. Especially when my interest in the game was low already.
@TheNephilym : Oh they have all the rights to complain about it. But thinking they will one day stop piracy by such idiotic means is naive, to say the least.
And honestly, I doubt the amount of lost sales from piracy or secondhand is that high... They seriously need to understand their products would sell if they were AAA titles. But I believe my doubts are reasonable about games such as Driver: San Fransisco. They couldn't build a hype, really, I doubt a lot of people are actually awaiting this game for a first-day buy...
Not the same for their Assassin's Creed franchise. This is AAA, it WILL sell, even if it does get pirated. That's one game I won't pirate, even if I had the chance to.
Like many people said before : They want sales, they give us good games then.
And honestly, I doubt the amount of lost sales from piracy or secondhand is that high... They seriously need to understand their products would sell if they were AAA titles. But I believe my doubts are reasonable about games such as Driver: San Fransisco. They couldn't build a hype, really, I doubt a lot of people are actually awaiting this game for a first-day buy...
Not the same for their Assassin's Creed franchise. This is AAA, it WILL sell, even if it does get pirated. That's one game I won't pirate, even if I had the chance to.
Like many people said before : They want sales, they give us good games then.
While I agree with DRM in some form, an always one isn't that good of an idea, though to be honest people don't have issue with Blizzard games being always on.
Also I completely agree with online passes. Bitch about it all you want, until companies like Gamestop stop ripping off publishers by taking potential new copy buyers with a pathetic 5 dollar discount pocketing all the money with reduced profits going to the dev/pub, then get use to it.
You want to get mad at someone for online passes, get mad at companies like Gamestop who only care about themselves, with no regard for publishing/developers, consumers and the industry as a whole.
Also I completely agree with online passes. Bitch about it all you want, until companies like Gamestop stop ripping off publishers by taking potential new copy buyers with a pathetic 5 dollar discount pocketing all the money with reduced profits going to the dev/pub, then get use to it.
You want to get mad at someone for online passes, get mad at companies like Gamestop who only care about themselves, with no regard for publishing/developers, consumers and the industry as a whole.
I also believe some publishers should lower their sales expectations. Print millions and there is a huge chance you'll find a lot of your title on the used games shelves. Do limited prints and no one will ever return that game, creating a bigger demand, and more sales at the end.
Small studios understand that principle. They do a first limited small run, see how the gamers react to their product, and adjust the production after. It's not rocket science to understand that the product they sell might not be so extraordinary to deserve millions in sales.
Small studios understand that principle. They do a first limited small run, see how the gamers react to their product, and adjust the production after. It's not rocket science to understand that the product they sell might not be so extraordinary to deserve millions in sales.
@ElReminator
Certainly no arguments there. I honestly think, for the most part, a lot of the people buying used or pirating really weren't going to buy the game any damn way. There are plenty of games I only bothered getting because I found them in a cheap used bin somewhere. If a game is really promising I have no qualms about dropping full price day one. So yeah,they should just make games people WANT to buy.
I also don't think the kind of DRM they are pushing is even effective enough to warrant its existence. I think the most basic form of DRM (needs CDkey, CD, whatever) is enough to deter the folks that simply don't want to go through the trouble of finding and applying a crack. At the same time it only requires the legit customers to enter a CDkey and be done with it. All this extra bullshit just makes things more difficult for EVERYONE involved. It's stupid. It's a waste. And it may end up costing them more sales than it saves them if they keep it up.
Certainly no arguments there. I honestly think, for the most part, a lot of the people buying used or pirating really weren't going to buy the game any damn way. There are plenty of games I only bothered getting because I found them in a cheap used bin somewhere. If a game is really promising I have no qualms about dropping full price day one. So yeah,they should just make games people WANT to buy.
I also don't think the kind of DRM they are pushing is even effective enough to warrant its existence. I think the most basic form of DRM (needs CDkey, CD, whatever) is enough to deter the folks that simply don't want to go through the trouble of finding and applying a crack. At the same time it only requires the legit customers to enter a CDkey and be done with it. All this extra bullshit just makes things more difficult for EVERYONE involved. It's stupid. It's a waste. And it may end up costing them more sales than it saves them if they keep it up.
I like Blizzard's Diablo approach out of any online DRM.
Ubisoft has sucked up Trackmania, so I hope they improve before their violating gaze falls on that franchise.
Ubisoft has sucked up Trackmania, so I hope they improve before their violating gaze falls on that franchise.
I think he meant to say, "It's just, simply, consumer explotation is at the most incredible rates. This game cost a huge amount of money to develop because we focus on everything but gameplay."
This is the kind of shit that makes me wonder if maybe I should think seriously about skipping Assassins' Creed :Revelations.
Buy our game at full price (that will probably plummet in price within a year) and then have something you can't lend out, use on multiple machines,or probably reliably play again in six years when new consoles are out and Ubsioft doesn't care about old games. Buy it you stupid crooks! And don't expect a discount because you made us ruin it. And never mind that the pirates will just crack out the DRM anyway and then have a BETTER VERSION TO PLAY than the people WHO ACTUALLY PAID MONEY FOR IT.
Buy our game at full price (that will probably plummet in price within a year) and then have something you can't lend out, use on multiple machines,or probably reliably play again in six years when new consoles are out and Ubsioft doesn't care about old games. Buy it you stupid crooks! And don't expect a discount because you made us ruin it. And never mind that the pirates will just crack out the DRM anyway and then have a BETTER VERSION TO PLAY than the people WHO ACTUALLY PAID MONEY FOR IT.
"They already saw $60 off any game sold used, and they've likely made far more with whatever day-one DLC they release alongside it. Oh wait, you already know that because I'm not talking to a bunch of idiots."
Well you kinda do... because only in your dreams does a publisher take home anywhere near a game's full sale. Steam is seen as a bargain because their cut is 'only' 40 to 50% of the retail price. And none of your smart, knowledgeable readers picked up on that.
At the end of the day, when even PC-centric cult-classics like Fallout 3 and Oblivion sell 10 times more copies on consoles than on the PC it's time to rethink the piracy apologist BS. Deus Ex HR sold 6% of total copies on the PC. With Digital PC sales representing typically 40% of total sales, it's likely to fall within the 10-15% norm, in spite of the PC having the largest install base by far.
Publishers have to defend themselves and look for creative ways to recoup their losses until modern societies get their act together and treat piracy like the mass wealth destruction it is.
Well you kinda do... because only in your dreams does a publisher take home anywhere near a game's full sale. Steam is seen as a bargain because their cut is 'only' 40 to 50% of the retail price. And none of your smart, knowledgeable readers picked up on that.
At the end of the day, when even PC-centric cult-classics like Fallout 3 and Oblivion sell 10 times more copies on consoles than on the PC it's time to rethink the piracy apologist BS. Deus Ex HR sold 6% of total copies on the PC. With Digital PC sales representing typically 40% of total sales, it's likely to fall within the 10-15% norm, in spite of the PC having the largest install base by far.
Publishers have to defend themselves and look for creative ways to recoup their losses until modern societies get their act together and treat piracy like the mass wealth destruction it is.
"They already saw $60 off any game sold used, and they've likely made far more with whatever day-one DLC they release alongside it. Oh wait, you already know that because I'm not talking to a bunch of idiots."
Well you kinda do... because only in your dreams does a publisher take home anywhere near a game's full sale. Steam is seen as a bargain because their cut is 'only' 40 to 50% of the retail price. And none of your smart, knowledgeable readers picked up on that.
At the end of the day, when even PC-centric cult-classics like Fallout 3 and Oblivion sell 10 times more copies on consoles than on the PC it's time to rethink the piracy apologist BS. Deus Ex HR - beloved even in pirate circles where everyone and their grandmother swears that the beta leaked convinced them to sell the game and tell everyone they knew to buy it - sold 6% of total copies on the PC in the UK so far. With Digital PC sales representing typically 40% of total sales, it's likely to fall within the 10-15% norm, in spite of the PC having the largest install base by far.
Publishers have to defend themselves and look for creative ways to recoup their losses until modern societies get their act together and treat piracy like the mass wealth destruction it is.
Well you kinda do... because only in your dreams does a publisher take home anywhere near a game's full sale. Steam is seen as a bargain because their cut is 'only' 40 to 50% of the retail price. And none of your smart, knowledgeable readers picked up on that.
At the end of the day, when even PC-centric cult-classics like Fallout 3 and Oblivion sell 10 times more copies on consoles than on the PC it's time to rethink the piracy apologist BS. Deus Ex HR - beloved even in pirate circles where everyone and their grandmother swears that the beta leaked convinced them to sell the game and tell everyone they knew to buy it - sold 6% of total copies on the PC in the UK so far. With Digital PC sales representing typically 40% of total sales, it's likely to fall within the 10-15% norm, in spite of the PC having the largest install base by far.
Publishers have to defend themselves and look for creative ways to recoup their losses until modern societies get their act together and treat piracy like the mass wealth destruction it is.
@Nascarbuc: Umm yeah he was talking about used game sales in that paragraph you quoted, going on a pro-drm rant while quoting a used game console paragraph only makes you look like a retard. Steam takes 30% of any sales, so the devs/pubs get 70% of the sales. I'm not sure of the piracy rates in the UK, but do you have info to back up that's the reason Deus Ex: HR sold only 6% in the UK or are you just grasping at straws and hoping no one calls you out on it? Steam also very rarely releases sales data so I doubt this 6% is including Steam.
Again how many times do I have to keep telling idiots this, dumbass DRM DOES NOT make less people pirate your game instead it makes legit customers not buy your game and pirates are still gonna pirate. Unless of course Ubuisoft's plan is for it to sell horrible on the PC, then go for it.
Again how many times do I have to keep telling idiots this, dumbass DRM DOES NOT make less people pirate your game instead it makes legit customers not buy your game and pirates are still gonna pirate. Unless of course Ubuisoft's plan is for it to sell horrible on the PC, then go for it.
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