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I think he has a point. It's not true of all games, like able to think says, but I think the idea that graphical prowess isn't so important is more common in Japanese developers. For example I recently got Dragon's Dogma. The large monsters look amazing, but the environments and character models look pretty bad, especially the characters. The animations are really good though.
Was this capcoms way of saying "if it sucks, its not our fault because we would work on gameplay before deciding what the haircut of the lead character should be?"
Hmmm. That sounds fairly accurate. We like the pretty here in the West. And food in nugget form. I called my testicles sex nuggets for a while but it started to make my family uncomfortable.
"Hold up to run through the stage while mashing the attack button" isn't what I'd call a groundbreaking gameplay foundation...
Cinema, cinema, cinema. When you cater to only the broadest market, you give em the spectacle or they give you your walking papers.
There's an EA boardroom somewhere, probably right now, full of execs laughing at Atlus for doing it wrong.
There's an EA boardroom somewhere, probably right now, full of execs laughing at Atlus for doing it wrong.
Just in case this starts a shitstorm (because, well, internet), he’s literally saying that they put graphics before gameplay, as in they work on that first, not some broad statement who places more importance on what aspects of a game.
He has a point. Most Japanese made games I've played usually have good gameplay (Yes even FFXIII in my opinion, the rest of the game however..)
Western games I always find flawed in regards to gameplay, even games like Skyrim where I think the combat is very lacking.
Obviously there's exceptions to the rule and both sides can have either good gameplay or bad gameplay, but I think he makes a good point.
Western games I always find flawed in regards to gameplay, even games like Skyrim where I think the combat is very lacking.
Obviously there's exceptions to the rule and both sides can have either good gameplay or bad gameplay, but I think he makes a good point.
You know what bugs me most about the reboot? The fucking title: DmC: Devil May Cry. Seriously, that bugs me.
That sounds like fighting words to me
I think hes trying to save face, if the game does well praise japans gameplay building of this title. If it sucks, blame ninja's focus on visuals
I think hes trying to save face, if the game does well praise japans gameplay building of this title. If it sucks, blame ninja's focus on visuals
One of the biggest examples of the Japanese method to game design is "Deadly Premonition." To me, that game told an amazing story, offered some mechanics that had never been seen before, and put genres together that very well didn't go together, yet somehow made the whole experience engaging. The price? It looked ugly as sin at most points, as if the game had been built on the concepts and the graphics had been cobbled together around it.
Just thought I'd use one of my favorite games of all time as an example...
Just thought I'd use one of my favorite games of all time as an example...
Says the man that neutered classic skill-based Devil May Cry gameplay in favor of prettier TAP X TO WIN finisher moves.
Handy, obviously there is a difference in the outcomes when the priority are opposite. Action games (the genre of discussion) from the east are largely more technical, with layers of depth and subtlety, and western action games pioneer QTEs and usually feature loose, arcing swing attacks with a straight forwardness that borders on dull... Especially Ninja Theory games.
This is the precise reason DmC looks jacked.
This is the precise reason DmC looks jacked.
At least graphics and cutscenes don't interfere with my ability to control the game during the actual game. There are SO many Japanese games with controls designed to let animations play out before registering any new input.
I love Monster Hunter, but I admit that half of every fight is waiting for knockdown/eating/rolling animations to play out. It's done intentionally, but can still be incredibly annoying. And think about it; how rare is stunlock in Western games vs. Japanese games?
I love Monster Hunter, but I admit that half of every fight is waiting for knockdown/eating/rolling animations to play out. It's done intentionally, but can still be incredibly annoying. And think about it; how rare is stunlock in Western games vs. Japanese games?
@Phil
Wait till you see the inevitable sequel...
DmC2: Devil May Cry Two: DcA: The Devil Cries Again
BTYbC: Brought To You By Capcom
Wait till you see the inevitable sequel...
DmC2: Devil May Cry Two: DcA: The Devil Cries Again
BTYbC: Brought To You By Capcom
Scrustle: and Inlove Dragon's dogma for that. The monsters are exactly where I want the good graphics focused, then just give me good gameplay.
In Capcom Japan all they focus on is rehashing street fighter 7 times a year, so this dude's opinion is invalid.
I don't buy it. The Japanese developer are great at coming up with new "systems" and "mechanics" but they are terrible at balancing them. Disgaea is the poster child for this mentality.
CoD, Madden, etc may be the industry face for a lack of innovation and too much emphasis on graphics, but what they are is balanced and incredibly deep.
But, I think this speaks to the focus by Western devs on online competitive multiplayer and Japanese devs focus on single player offline play. The Japanese titles that are meant to be competitive, e.g. Capcom's fighting games, you see this focus on refining gameplay to promote balance.
CoD, Madden, etc may be the industry face for a lack of innovation and too much emphasis on graphics, but what they are is balanced and incredibly deep.
But, I think this speaks to the focus by Western devs on online competitive multiplayer and Japanese devs focus on single player offline play. The Japanese titles that are meant to be competitive, e.g. Capcom's fighting games, you see this focus on refining gameplay to promote balance.
Lumping devs into west or east is stupid. Every stereotype used to support the idea has several glaring exceptions therefore rendering the endeavor dumb as fuck.
He's absolutely correct; and that's why Japan makes the best games that nobody buys and Westerners make the flashiest crap that everyone buys and it's why most self-described modern "gamers" have no idea what they're talking about, no idea what a good game is, and act like spoiled babies who just want cheap, instant satisfaction.
as long as the main character in a eastern game is a EMO guy/girl the graphics don't matter and the game will sell big in japan
well i do agree with him.
@VicYoungblood
agree, you could also put in games like Tenchu, Shinobido
but the gameplay and mechanics are fun as hell(though sometimes the controls can be frustrating)
@VicYoungblood
agree, you could also put in games like Tenchu, Shinobido
but the gameplay and mechanics are fun as hell(though sometimes the controls can be frustrating)
I think what he meant to say is, "While at Capcom, we focus on rereleasing the same game over again at full price with a little more content." Dead Rising 2 and MvC3, anyone?
I don't agree really agree. Call of Duty, the biggest IP in the west has been using he same engine for years and looks pretty much the same, release after release. Whereas FF and MGS can't stop themselves from cramming as many HD cut scenes now as possible. It's not without a grain of truth, but I feel there is a bit of projection here.
So this is why DMC (I refuse to call it DmC, because that's just the most aggravating l33t speak to me) is going to suck so much donkey balls? Western approach is the wrong way to make games. Mechanics and gameplay are what MAKE your game... not realistic and flashy graphics. Wake up West!
Funny, I often think the opposite. Maybe because when I think of a lot of east vs west I tend to think of RPGs. When you compare Mass Effect or Skyrim to FFXIII, the argument is completely reversed.
I don't think he means this in a negative way, atleast with Ninja Theory. Not sure if he means westerners focus on the graphical fidelity or getting the world/aesthetics down before adding in gameplay.
I don't think he means this in a negative way, atleast with Ninja Theory. Not sure if he means westerners focus on the graphical fidelity or getting the world/aesthetics down before adding in gameplay.
I don't think he means this in a negative way, atleast with Ninja Theory. Not sure if he means westerners focus on the graphical fidelity or getting the world/aesthetics down before adding in gameplay.
Christ what an idiot.
When was the last time you played a Japanese game that wasn't an archaic pile of shit?
When was the last time you played a Japanese game that wasn't an archaic pile of shit?
"Whereas at Capcom Japan, we focus on the game logic and getting the systems down in the beginning then we gradually build the visuals on top of that."
You mean like Resident Evil 6, which is stripped down to its most basic gameplay elements to suit the most common of denominators, and still runs like ass with massive screen tearing two months before its release?
I thought Capcom spent most of their time trying to dry hump their customers' wallets, but apparently I'm mistaken.
You mean like Resident Evil 6, which is stripped down to its most basic gameplay elements to suit the most common of denominators, and still runs like ass with massive screen tearing two months before its release?
I thought Capcom spent most of their time trying to dry hump their customers' wallets, but apparently I'm mistaken.
@WordTipping “CoD, Madden, etc may be the industry face for a lack of innovation and too much emphasis on graphics, but what they are is balanced and incredibly deep.”
Seeing as how CoD has been using the same graphics engine for years mainly due to the devs (IW, Treyarch) not wanting to risk sacrificing the games’ 60fps (on consoles at leasts), CoD is a poor example of graphics over gameplay.
BO&MW2 are crazy unbalanced.
Seeing as how CoD has been using the same graphics engine for years mainly due to the devs (IW, Treyarch) not wanting to risk sacrificing the games’ 60fps (on consoles at leasts), CoD is a poor example of graphics over gameplay.
BO&MW2 are crazy unbalanced.
I'd be more likely to take this article seriously if Capcom didn't release Asura's Wrath/MvC3/etc.
**** gameplay + flashy graphics = Capcom
**** gameplay + flashy graphics = Capcom
I always thought western games put focus testing and mass appeal before everything else, while eastern games go for a more niche route. Mass appeal often requires more beautiful graphics rather then new gameplay mechanics and creativity.
IMO east vs east in this generation is the equivalent of Hollywood vs Arthouse cinema.
btw, I think he didn't use the therm "before" in a qualitative sense, he used it in a ordinal sense. As in "the horse comes in 'before' the cart". He meant Eastern devs think of gameplay before thinking of graphics, not exactly that one is put aside in favor of the other (otherwise we wouldn't have fucking FFXIII!).
IMO east vs east in this generation is the equivalent of Hollywood vs Arthouse cinema.
btw, I think he didn't use the therm "before" in a qualitative sense, he used it in a ordinal sense. As in "the horse comes in 'before' the cart". He meant Eastern devs think of gameplay before thinking of graphics, not exactly that one is put aside in favor of the other (otherwise we wouldn't have fucking FFXIII!).
Historically he's right (in terms of Capcom's internally developed products). Many Capcom games like say, Lost Planet, have fighting game mechanics in them. There is a frame data mentality in a lot of Japanese game design (actions having invulnerability, recovery, move linking, cancelled actions) that many Western developers seem to have never grasped the concept of. This is why I frequently have a strong preference for the play control in Japanese games, despite other wonky elements (CAMERAS CAMERAS CAMERAS).
On the other hand though... Capcom is dumping almost all their resources in the trainwreck that is RE6 =/.
On the other hand though... Capcom is dumping almost all their resources in the trainwreck that is RE6 =/.
Its about time some Japanese dude fired back, and he's actually RIGHT too. Good man.
Most of the games I've played that are badly optimized, glitched out, unbalanced or have mechanics that are just plain badly thought out are Western. It doesn't matter how big the graphics budget was if the game isn't a smooth experience to me.
Square Enix may be retarded now and focus WAY TOO MUCH on graphics to be the point of dumbing down their games and never releasing anything, but can ANYONE claim that FF13 has those examples bad workmanship? Didn't think so.
Nintendo are the perfect example of functionality and functional visuals over fidelity for the sake of it.
Most of the games I've played that are badly optimized, glitched out, unbalanced or have mechanics that are just plain badly thought out are Western. It doesn't matter how big the graphics budget was if the game isn't a smooth experience to me.
Square Enix may be retarded now and focus WAY TOO MUCH on graphics to be the point of dumbing down their games and never releasing anything, but can ANYONE claim that FF13 has those examples bad workmanship? Didn't think so.
Nintendo are the perfect example of functionality and functional visuals over fidelity for the sake of it.
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