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I think one reason there's this disconnect between the gaming community and the general population on this topic is because both have two separate definitions of "gamer".
To the public and the people writing these articles, a "gamer" is a person who plays video games. If you own a DS and a single game for it (Say, Tetris or something), you're a gamer in their eyes. However, to us, "gamers" are really hardcore gamers. If you're not out pwning n00bs on a regular basis, we don't consider you a gamer.
Using the public's definition, I think this woman is right, but she's incorrect in just applying it to women. For people who don't game regularly, "casual games" are more appealing regardless of gender. I know people's parents, both male and female, who couldn't give two shits about Halo or the latest Street Fighter, but love playing a game of Wii Tennis. That said, if you count every girl who plays a video game as a gamer, then she is correct in that the majority of that population would be considered "casual gamers".
It's weird for us, since I think most of us are friends with girls who love video games just as much as we do, so it's hard to equate what these people are talking about with our own personal experiences. There are "girls that game" like Faith and Colette and VirtualGirl, but there is also a large population of people like my friend Amy, who haven't touched a video game in their lives except for The Sims 2 and the original Mario Bros.
I do think the general thrust of Dr. Pearce's argument is correct though. On the whole, the industry needs to do a better job of marketing to women, both in casual games and for more 'hardcore' games. While many Dtoiders see casual games as something that will destroy the industry, I'm somewhat more optimistic and believe that it's going to help bring a whole new demographic to gaming. However, it's going to take time. People will need to play casual games for a while and realize "Hey, this is fun. I wonder what else is out there?". Because the emergence of "casual games" is relatively recent, this shift hasn't happened yet, but I believe it will eventually.
And, based on that theory, one of the best ways to get people interested in hardcore games is to first market to as broad of an audience for casual games as you can, and then once you've built up a base, start marketing the hardcore games to them. It'll take time, but we'll see how it goes.
Of course, if my theory is wrong, then pretty much everything I've said is a pile of shit. However, I think that I'm correct, and I think that economically marketing games directly to a demographic ("girly games" for "girls") to draw them to games in the first place, and then introducing them to more hardcore games is the most sound marketing strategy for these companies. It may not be fair, it's definitely not equal, and it's going to piss off a lot of true "girl gamers", but for the console makers and developers it's the best way to increase sales and bring in new gamers.
To the public and the people writing these articles, a "gamer" is a person who plays video games. If you own a DS and a single game for it (Say, Tetris or something), you're a gamer in their eyes. However, to us, "gamers" are really hardcore gamers. If you're not out pwning n00bs on a regular basis, we don't consider you a gamer.
Using the public's definition, I think this woman is right, but she's incorrect in just applying it to women. For people who don't game regularly, "casual games" are more appealing regardless of gender. I know people's parents, both male and female, who couldn't give two shits about Halo or the latest Street Fighter, but love playing a game of Wii Tennis. That said, if you count every girl who plays a video game as a gamer, then she is correct in that the majority of that population would be considered "casual gamers".
It's weird for us, since I think most of us are friends with girls who love video games just as much as we do, so it's hard to equate what these people are talking about with our own personal experiences. There are "girls that game" like Faith and Colette and VirtualGirl, but there is also a large population of people like my friend Amy, who haven't touched a video game in their lives except for The Sims 2 and the original Mario Bros.
I do think the general thrust of Dr. Pearce's argument is correct though. On the whole, the industry needs to do a better job of marketing to women, both in casual games and for more 'hardcore' games. While many Dtoiders see casual games as something that will destroy the industry, I'm somewhat more optimistic and believe that it's going to help bring a whole new demographic to gaming. However, it's going to take time. People will need to play casual games for a while and realize "Hey, this is fun. I wonder what else is out there?". Because the emergence of "casual games" is relatively recent, this shift hasn't happened yet, but I believe it will eventually.
And, based on that theory, one of the best ways to get people interested in hardcore games is to first market to as broad of an audience for casual games as you can, and then once you've built up a base, start marketing the hardcore games to them. It'll take time, but we'll see how it goes.
Of course, if my theory is wrong, then pretty much everything I've said is a pile of shit. However, I think that I'm correct, and I think that economically marketing games directly to a demographic ("girly games" for "girls") to draw them to games in the first place, and then introducing them to more hardcore games is the most sound marketing strategy for these companies. It may not be fair, it's definitely not equal, and it's going to piss off a lot of true "girl gamers", but for the console makers and developers it's the best way to increase sales and bring in new gamers.
This is as bad as that D.S. Lite book. * eye roll *
People like these are the reason why I still get told in a few places that I shouldn't play games because 'they might be scary'- why aren't boys ever told this? Of course, if someone thinks Devil May Cry is that terrifying, it might be time to return to mother for some more breast-feeding.
If they keep marketing the games as fun games, nothing more, they'll keep attracting the girls and boys who want to play. Sure, we females may (and I emphasise MAY) not be too keen to play Leisure Suit Larry, but there's a market for everything.
People like these are the reason why I still get told in a few places that I shouldn't play games because 'they might be scary'- why aren't boys ever told this? Of course, if someone thinks Devil May Cry is that terrifying, it might be time to return to mother for some more breast-feeding.
If they keep marketing the games as fun games, nothing more, they'll keep attracting the girls and boys who want to play. Sure, we females may (and I emphasise MAY) not be too keen to play Leisure Suit Larry, but there's a market for everything.
My wife can kick some ass in Soul Calibur 2. But she hates FPS games. (except for Blood. She will play the hell out of Blood)
My girlfriend games... so does my sister. They're both excellent. My sister enjoys pretty much everything I do (Rock Band, Trauma Center, Planet Puzzle league and so on.) My girlfriend on the other hand enjoys tltles like Endless Ocean, Viva Piniata, Cookin' Mama, Zelda, and Wario Ware. They both play Rock Band and love it but my sister isn't into the Zelda series and my girlfriend is. My girlfriend also enjoys casual games more than my sister. Neither of them like to play FPS' though.... Anyway my point is that it really just depends on who the gamer is and what their specific tastes are.
I totally agree with you but can we stop calling the wii's controls a gimmick? I think many times they work better than previous controls and despite sounding like a pr person they do often immerse you more. It's a gimmick if nothing creative is being done with them which, with many games is the case, but there are plenty of games out there making them not a gimmick.
As a girl gamer myself, I wholeheartedly agree. Perhaps girl gamers under the age of 10 will appreciate the stereotypical girl products (Pink DS Lite, Poneyz, Catz, Dogz, and whatever else)...but grown women that like games will like them because they're fun. Not because they're marketed for girls only.
At first glance I read the heading as "developers should market two women?".
If that was the question I'd have backed it with a resounding "yes!".
If that was the question I'd have backed it with a resounding "yes!".
All of the women I know who game are really only into rythem titles like Guitar Hero or Rock Band. In fact, many of them bought XBOX 360s just to play one of those two games. My wife, in contrast, loves her Call of Duty 4, Ghost Recon, Mass Effect and Catan.
I was in Wallmart a few months ago and this young (maybe 8?) girl was shopping for DS games with her Grandma. I remember quite clearly her point out all the games she already owned: Nintendogs, Ponies, and the rest of JTHM87's list.
I'm not sure what conclusion I can draw from that other than different people play different types of games. *shrug*
I was in Wallmart a few months ago and this young (maybe 8?) girl was shopping for DS games with her Grandma. I remember quite clearly her point out all the games she already owned: Nintendogs, Ponies, and the rest of JTHM87's list.
I'm not sure what conclusion I can draw from that other than different people play different types of games. *shrug*
The demographic the good professor is promoting is that lot that want games you can summarize in one sentence and play with two buttons. While it needs lots of bright shiny colors and happy sounds, it can't rely on reflexes or have any learning curve since, teehee, we're girls and we're not good with all this tech stuff. And violence and dying is BAD, heck, anything that would offend a Victorian priest is bad.
The idea that people out there actually take these game things seriously and want to push them forward technically and artistically... wait, what?
The idea that people out there actually take these game things seriously and want to push them forward technically and artistically... wait, what?
The demographic the good professor is promoting is that lot that want games you can summarize in one sentence and play with two buttons. While it needs lots of bright shiny colors and happy sounds, it can't rely on reflexes or have any learning curve since, teehee, we're girls and we're not good with all this tech stuff. And violence and dying is BAD, heck, anything that would offend a Victorian priest is bad.The idea that people out there actually take these game things seriously and want to push them forward technically and artistically... wait, what?
Damn, right on Aerox. I was all set to rant...but you pretty much spelled it out.
Here's my $0.02.
There are two only game that has consistently got my wife on xbox live every night for the past few months: Halo 3 and Puzzle Quest. She's got a friendslist full of chicks that spend all night tea bagging n00bs despite the lack of teabags. (we still haven't come up with a female specific phrase for tea bagging...the best so far was Pastrami Slap).
But like I said she plays a lot of puzzle quest too...so that's where it falls down is she a hardcore gamer on halo who likes puzzle quest or a casual gamer on puzzlequest who plays halo?
I mean she is a "gamer", but she doesn't spend all day reading blogs like I do...but she's a lot more hard core than some of her friends who come over and just want to play sonic on the Wii.
The whole gender specfic argument is stupid. I agree with Aerox, it really comes down to marketing to the casual set which has expanded the market.
Here's my $0.02.
There are two only game that has consistently got my wife on xbox live every night for the past few months: Halo 3 and Puzzle Quest. She's got a friendslist full of chicks that spend all night tea bagging n00bs despite the lack of teabags. (we still haven't come up with a female specific phrase for tea bagging...the best so far was Pastrami Slap).
But like I said she plays a lot of puzzle quest too...so that's where it falls down is she a hardcore gamer on halo who likes puzzle quest or a casual gamer on puzzlequest who plays halo?
I mean she is a "gamer", but she doesn't spend all day reading blogs like I do...but she's a lot more hard core than some of her friends who come over and just want to play sonic on the Wii.
The whole gender specfic argument is stupid. I agree with Aerox, it really comes down to marketing to the casual set which has expanded the market.
Only if I can teabag her in return. And then she can use my joystick while I press her turbo button. Ooo, that's right baby, gonna pew pew pew all over you.
What were we talking about?
What were we talking about?
I don't want to play Barbie's horse adventure! I want to play COD4!
I don't want games marketed/made to/for woman, I just want games!
Thousands of MEN enjoy Kirby, the pink ball of hope (lulz) and no one thinks that weird. So why is it weird for girls to like the guns and the gore?! stfu weird lady, stfu!
I don't want games marketed/made to/for woman, I just want games!
Thousands of MEN enjoy Kirby, the pink ball of hope (lulz) and no one thinks that weird. So why is it weird for girls to like the guns and the gore?! stfu weird lady, stfu!
I think Aerox pretty much nailed it. Out of all the girls and women I know who have decided to play a game, the majority tend to gravitate towards 2D platformers, adventure games, Sims-style games, and puzzle games.
Maybe they've been brainwashed, or maybe they actually like those games. But defining girl gamers as girls who like to play Halo 3 neatly defines the question away.
Maybe they've been brainwashed, or maybe they actually like those games. But defining girl gamers as girls who like to play Halo 3 neatly defines the question away.
Like great movie trailers that show exactly what kind of experience to expect, I think game marketing should advertise the GAME, not the kind of people they expect to be playing it.
I find that direction in marketing counterproductive to pretty much everything.
I find that direction in marketing counterproductive to pretty much everything.
@Rock
I don't really know much about marketing, so I might be way off base here, but at last from a psychological perspective if you show a person who normally doesn't play video games a video game, they'll say "Oh, a video game. I don't care about that." and move on.
If you instead show them their peer group/popular people people playing the video game, there's a subconscious "Oh, people like me/people I want to be like are doing this. I should do it too.", and that seems to be what marketing is based on. Most Coke commercials now aren't people sitting around enjoying a refreshing coke, they're awesome breakdancers having an awesome party and they happen to be drinking coke. Campbell's is all about football players playing football for 25 seconds, and then having a bowl of soup in the last 5.
If you market to people who are already interested in your product, you're not getting new customers. The real point of marketing is to convince people who wouldn't normally be interested in what you're selling to buy it.
It seems stupid to us, but it's really all about making money.
I don't really know much about marketing, so I might be way off base here, but at last from a psychological perspective if you show a person who normally doesn't play video games a video game, they'll say "Oh, a video game. I don't care about that." and move on.
If you instead show them their peer group/popular people people playing the video game, there's a subconscious "Oh, people like me/people I want to be like are doing this. I should do it too.", and that seems to be what marketing is based on. Most Coke commercials now aren't people sitting around enjoying a refreshing coke, they're awesome breakdancers having an awesome party and they happen to be drinking coke. Campbell's is all about football players playing football for 25 seconds, and then having a bowl of soup in the last 5.
If you market to people who are already interested in your product, you're not getting new customers. The real point of marketing is to convince people who wouldn't normally be interested in what you're selling to buy it.
It seems stupid to us, but it's really all about making money.
The Petz games and Imagine games are basically targeted at YOUNG females, like ages 3-10 years old, and for this demographic they are perfect. Young girls love these games because they want games that are not frustrating where you die/lose every 5 min or less, or for impatient girls who do not yet have the patience to sit down and figure out a game yet and they are perfect for the girls who throw down their game saying "I don't like this game because it is too hard".
These games aren't marketed to anyone older than age 12 so I don't see the problem, its not like these games are marketed to the female 20 somethings that are into gaming. The females who are into gaming generally don't come here to post their thoughts which is why there is such discrepancy over what females want. I think we just want to choose what games we play, and not have something marketed specifically to us, because then its usually considered a "kiddie" or "girlie" game and is shunned by adults.
These games aren't marketed to anyone older than age 12 so I don't see the problem, its not like these games are marketed to the female 20 somethings that are into gaming. The females who are into gaming generally don't come here to post their thoughts which is why there is such discrepancy over what females want. I think we just want to choose what games we play, and not have something marketed specifically to us, because then its usually considered a "kiddie" or "girlie" game and is shunned by adults.
@Aerox
You make a great point, but what I was saying is merely a suggestion in a different, more HONEST direction - a direction that happens to go upstream, against an infinite flow of liquid gold that goes a billion feet per second, teeming with robot piranhas.
A man can dream...
You make a great point, but what I was saying is merely a suggestion in a different, more HONEST direction - a direction that happens to go upstream, against an infinite flow of liquid gold that goes a billion feet per second, teeming with robot piranhas.
A man can dream...
[i]teknohed says:
(we still haven't come up with a female specific phrase for tea bagging...the best so far was Pastrami Slap). [/i]
OMGWTFBBQ that was awesome.
(we still haven't come up with a female specific phrase for tea bagging...the best so far was Pastrami Slap). [/i]
OMGWTFBBQ that was awesome.
I don't want to play Barbie's horse adventure! I want to play COD4!
I don't want games marketed/made to/for woman, I just want games!
Thousands of MEN enjoy Kirby, the pink ball of hope (lulz) and no one thinks that weird. So why is it weird for girls to like the guns and the gore?! stfu weird lady, stfu!
I don't want games marketed/made to/for woman, I just want games!
Thousands of MEN enjoy Kirby, the pink ball of hope (lulz) and no one thinks that weird. So why is it weird for girls to like the guns and the gore?! stfu weird lady, stfu!
DS does well enough for the fairer sex. In my experience the controller is the biggest obstacle. Facebook "Games" seem popular with the ladies.
The term we should use imo is "Breasticle Bagging" or "Breasticles of Doom" or really anything that utilizes the word Breasticles.
Honestly, I think we should do the opposite. It pains me when I see my 5-year-old sister playing Strawberry Cupcake and my younger cousin playing Nintendogs. I didn't grow up on that kind of thing. Girly just wasn't appealing. I played with dinosaurs and toy cars, not Barbies or something or other. Obviously back then it was even more of a "just a guy thing" to play video games and that's why I kind of liked it. I don't know. Maybe marketing to little girls is good. Maybe it's just because I think all the normal girl things are lame. But I just really wish that I could hand little girls something like Mario or other neutral games and lead them further away from pet simulators and fashion designer games and magical pony adventures and little by little introduce them into something a little more, I dunno what you want to call it, gender neutral or manlier or hardcore... (I know none of those words fit what I'm talking about, but you get the point.)
I played Pokemon when I was started to get into that phase where most girls become a little less girly and I'll admit that I liked the cute Pokemon like Eevee and Vulpix over others, but I just think we're starting to cater a little too much to the little girl demographic.
That's my opinion, though, not my advice. And keep in mind that I just tend to hate most things that are stereotypically associated with women.Girly games just don't sound fun. *sad face*
I will admit though that I really want to play Hamsterz 2, but I think that has more to do with my desire for companionship with small animals that ask little of me since I can't own any where I'm living.
...And my obsession with hamsters.
I played Pokemon when I was started to get into that phase where most girls become a little less girly and I'll admit that I liked the cute Pokemon like Eevee and Vulpix over others, but I just think we're starting to cater a little too much to the little girl demographic.
That's my opinion, though, not my advice. And keep in mind that I just tend to hate most things that are stereotypically associated with women.Girly games just don't sound fun. *sad face*
I will admit though that I really want to play Hamsterz 2, but I think that has more to do with my desire for companionship with small animals that ask little of me since I can't own any where I'm living.
...And my obsession with hamsters.
The-Excel: That sounds perfectly reasonable for a PC gamer. You see, PC gamers are just more maneuverable when they aren't bogged down by excessive clothing.
Unfortunately during LAN's and other social occasions we're forced to put up with the handicap.
Unfortunately during LAN's and other social occasions we're forced to put up with the handicap.
I think there are games that women would like, but no one markets towards them. Most of the titles I can think of a niche Japanese titles that very few people care about and so they get no press.
Katamari Damacy is a great example of this. Who wouldn't love rolling things up?
The games are there, but most people don't know they exist yet.
Katamari Damacy is a great example of this. Who wouldn't love rolling things up?
The games are there, but most people don't know they exist yet.
Personally I think there's little to nothing wrong with games created for the sexes. I know plenty of girls who love the types of games that exist now, and the ones who don't don't like video games at all. I could understand less stupid female characters that are only there for the adolescent boys, but we were getting less of those anyway.
Holyetheline had a great point. Gaming really does vary person to person. I think it's less about gender and more about experience and personal interests. I'm a female gamer and I play a little bit of everything. I enjoy a lot of games that would probably be considered "guy games" like Bioshock and Assassin's creed but I also enjoy a good Harvest Moon title and the Sims. What makes me sad is that so many people think that just because I'm a woman I can't enjoy a violent game or even a complicated game. But as time goes on things will improve. They can only get better from here.
Let me summarize the comments here: Quail Futon wins for epic picture and caption; Aerox wins for essay; Holyetheline & Sinnix win for “it depends”; but teknohed wins the entire thread for “pastrami slap”, which may be the greatest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. I’m totally going to start using that term.
I agree wholeheartedly with Vanima. I am also a girl gamer who likes a bit of everything, and I can't stand it when people assume that if it doesn't have rainbow-colored puppies and cupcakes, that I don't play it. Pretty much any girl who is a gamer, is a gamer like any other, as previously stated by Qais. I don't need to be segregated from the male gamers, and I don't need or want special treatment. And I truly mean that.
Dear developers: Make your games fun, and both men and women will want to play them. Probably hermaphrodites as well.
Hooray, sexism has entered the game industry after it's largely been exterminated in the real world. I don't think that any girl would only want My Little Pony and Barbie are Saving the Playground games, but could enjoy some good Metroid Prime or maybe even Half-Life or something, too. I mean, Samus is a girl, too. 'Nuff said.
Yes, Samus is a girl.
Yes, Samus is a girl.
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