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Developer criticizes 360 Community Games price structure photo

Microsoft has come under fire before, especially from indie developers like Jonathan Blow, for the amount of restrictions and inflexibility one finds when making games for the Xbox 360. Joining the ranks of the frustrated is Weapon of Choice creator Nathan Fouts, finding himself between a rock and hard place when naming a price for his game.

"... an 800 point game 'must' be a great game," explains Fouts. "Is our game long enough to warrant a 800 point price tag? ... Will gamers compare Community Games to XBLA and not pay as much because there are no leaderboards or Achievements available? ... At what price is it an impulse-buy versus a thought-out purchase? ... Do we price our game for our target market or focus on building a larger fan-base? ... And on and on.

"I think the most frustrating part in pricing has been the quantized price points. Microsoft does not allow for user-defined price points like 799 points or even 100 point increments like 500, 600, 700, etc. For a bigger game like Weapon of Choice, only having two options, one of which is double the first option, makes the decision difficult. I felt like we could have priced the game at 600 points and received no backlash from consumers as they compare our game to other downloadables."

Really, any developer who considers getting into bed with Microsoft, as with any whore, needs to be aware of what diseases might be picked up. Microsoft's rigidity has caused problems in the past and even contributed to the detriment of a game (Unreal Tournament III being a fine example). It's a shame that MS won't be more flexible ... especially since most of the Community Games aren't even worth 200 points.


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16 comments | showing # 1 to 16

Guagloves's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:42
Guagloves
Lines is worth 200 points. Its pretty simple, but its alot of fun.
TrailerParkJesus's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:46
TrailerParkJesus
most of the Community Games aren't even worth 200 points

True dat. I was excited for Community games before, but after I played half the demos of games from the launch, excited no more.
Jobson's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:49
Jobson
Sadly, a lot of people opt out of getting games that cost because of no achievements
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:50
Mxyzptlk
Thank god they don't allow you to price something at 799 points. It's annoying enough already when you have 30 points left over you can't spend on anything.

Are there any arcade games priced at 600 points? It seems to me like MS is just keeping the community games in line with the existing standard. I can also see the reasoning behind the "greater than 50 megs = 400 points or more" rule. If they're taking up a certain amount of space/bandwidth on MS's servers, then there should be a minimum price.

Bottom line, don't like the way MS is handling it? Don't develop for the platform.
crila's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:53
crila
weapon of chose should have been free. i got to the second level (about as far as the free demo) and it crashes. way to go xbox community games. now my xbox tells me to contact the game developer. ummm, really?!
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 10:55
GuitarAtomik
I would totally have paid 600 points for Weapon of Choice. That game is awesome-tastic.

Though I don't think they should let you price your stuff as specific as 799 points, I do think they should let you choose between 100 point increments. Oh well.
free touch's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 11:20
free touch
You guys are missing the point I think. He's complaining because he doesn't want to add the extra bits into the game, like achievements and leaderboards. 2 things that would make the game more enjoyable, and maybe take a few extra hours to put in.

If the game was 600 points, I would still want the achievements.
gamesronlygames's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 12:18
gamesronlygames
The point system is lame. Lets work with real figures MS-Oh and give your devs freedom. If they dont want to include acheivements they need to know many xbots are addicted to that now and enjoy that extra feature and sales will suffer for a want of it. But geez let them price their games at a competitive pp.
IndiecisiveLink's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 12:44
IndiecisiveLink
free touch - Microsoft doesn't let XNA developers have leaderboards or achievements. If they want them in their games, they have to write them from scratch, provide the server for the leaderboards, etc. And Microsoft doesn't let them use the names "leaderboards" or "achievements" either. Not the developer's call. =/
xenon's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 12:57
xenon
His point, according to TFA, is that XBLA games are too cheap, therefore forcing Community Games to have very low prices. The reasoning is if <great XBLA game> costs X, and <Community game> is worth (or is perceived as being worth) X/2, X/3 or X/4, it certainlt the latter certainly be priced at more than X/2. Is he right? I don't think so. I think 1200 points is already too much for XBLA games. Also, I don't know the financial details, but the revenue share actually going in the pockets of the developers is comparatively bigger than the one for retail games, isn't it?
xenon's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 13:00
xenon
Also, download size can be a rough measurement of the work put into a game and a very rough measurement of its value, but the related bandwidth and server storage costs can't be considered a sufficient reason for a higher price tag.
Karma-Suture's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 13:24
Karma-Suture
This guy sounds like an unsigned band complaining about everything the label "forces" them to do.

And as much as I can appreciate the notion of "sticking it to The Man", you don't call The Man a whore when you're relying on him to afford you the opportunity.

How's about you just sell the game for 5 bucks, succeed, then sell your next game for 10 bucks. Problem solved.
xenon's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 13:44
xenon
Certainly they could develop for PC and sell directly, although I think it's proven that centralized systems like XBLA and Steam do help increasing visibility and sales. Of course they come at a price (not only a monetary one), and in this case they chose to pay it, but I think they still have a right to comment and criticize their deal.
Demtor's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 15:14
Demtor
lol @ MotoRobo, good point. As much as everyone likes to hate on MS (me included) they are still doing better than others in a number of areas.
WarZombie's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/25/2008 17:41
WarZombie
Honestly, Achievements didn't exist before this generation and people *gasp* bought the games anyway. It isn't about the Achievements or leaderboards, if the game itself is good then I would buy, reagrdless of all that other crap. 12 bucks isn't bad for a good game (there are shitty games out there that are more expensive), and even before that people have to learn to SUPPORT INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS. Buy the game not just because it's good, but because it gives the developer of said game to make MORE games.

Our money + Buying good indie games = More good indie games.

What a concept.
GohanGVO's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2008 21:53
GohanGVO
Interestingly enough, he wanted to move the project onto XBLA. However, Microsoft wanted to keep it on Community Games as a showcase of what can be done by such a small team (as in one guy and some helpers).
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