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I know for one thing Spector didn't like the fact that the camera shifted to third-person when pressing up against a wall or when performing a takedown.
I wish he went into more details about what he thought was wrong. I'll assume that the forced boss fights were probably top on his list. Those are not what Deus Ex was about. DE:HR is still a great game, though.
Feels like Deus Ex is in the right hands. People can say what they want about SE on the Japan side, but it seems like Eidos has cleaned up quite nicely under their ownership. DXHR was a damn fine start for Eidos Montreal.
Looking forward to hearing about Thief 4 and seeing how Tomb Raider and Hitman work out, too.
Looking forward to hearing about Thief 4 and seeing how Tomb Raider and Hitman work out, too.
Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a damn fine sequel to one of the greatest games of all time. It had big britches to fill and while there was a few goofy issues, overall the game exceeded nearly every expectation I had. It is tragic it did not get more recognition from the industry as being one of the best games of last year. Other than the weirdly placed boss battles and a few issues with easily abusable A.I., the game was one of the few games I have actually played, finished, and enjoyed.
Good story sir. Glad to hear he approved (mostly). I loved seeing the teams enthusiastic approach to it during the documentary. I felt it was great reboot (with a few issues) and am looking forward to another one.
Same Warren.
But then again it's still one of my GOTYAY's. They did well, a very honorable successor
I sincerely hope Adam Jensen is the protagonist in next game.
But then again it's still one of my GOTYAY's. They did well, a very honorable successor
I sincerely hope Adam Jensen is the protagonist in next game.
I had no issues with the boss fights.
However I had issues with "you can play however you want"
But if you're gonna play action and not stealthily well make it a bit harder.
I found the game leaning to heavily on stealth. Wish there was a better balance.
However I had issues with "you can play however you want"
But if you're gonna play action and not stealthily well make it a bit harder.
I found the game leaning to heavily on stealth. Wish there was a better balance.
@Jaw: Really? I felt the opposite. I didn't max out my batteries or take some of the more action upgrades and felt I was penalized for not wanting to kill everyone. Love the game still. Really loved the rainbow six cover system. Shit.... I know what I'm starting a new playthrough of tonight.
Besides the Boss fights and and the press-the-button-to-get-this-ending, it was a fantastic game. Much better than the first regarding actual gameplay.
I wrote a brief blog about the shady ending it frustrated me that much other than that it was my GOTY.
Maybe when Warren Spector decides stop making goddamn Mickey Mouse games and start making proper games again he can regain the right to talk about what he would have done differently than Eidos.
I'm kidding! ...mostly. As a fanatic for the first game who also loved Human Revolution, I'm glad Spector also digs it. I am curious about what made him scream, though. Maybe there weren't enough hilarious accents?
I'm kidding! ...mostly. As a fanatic for the first game who also loved Human Revolution, I'm glad Spector also digs it. I am curious about what made him scream, though. Maybe there weren't enough hilarious accents?
Judging by the Missing link dlc the new guys learnt from critcism (no big one on one boss fight) and thats a very important thing for developers so im looking forward for more dlc or a sequal... or prequal, or sequal prequal.
I hate like hell to be the one to say this but...I'm still kinda sad that ME3's endings weren't as good as DX:HR's.
O_o
O_o
It's a good game, it had it's faults but still very fun. I hope they do some sort of sequel and allow you more choice.
Also, hope any sequel has people without the creepy tiny-head thing going on XD
Also, hope any sequel has people without the creepy tiny-head thing going on XD
Warren Spector spawned Invisible War so I guess he lost grasp of what was good for a Deus Ex game a long time ago.
I feel exactly the same as Spector, I loved the game and was my GOTY (next to Skyward Sword), but I had A LOT of gripes, and not just in the boss fights, but in design and in the immediate narrative (the "lore" was alright). I would go into detail, but I feel that would be more appropriate for a blog.
I really don't get the gaming community. I see a lot of "well the ending sucked and the boss battles were bad, but over all it was a good game." For DX:HR but ME3's ending is enough to ruin the game completely? Why is rational thought so inconsistent with gamers!
Anyways it's nice that he liked the game. Though I think it matters more how consumers think the game turned out then it does Spector.
Anyways it's nice that he liked the game. Though I think it matters more how consumers think the game turned out then it does Spector.
@ Chi - The DX endings are different and show what happens next. The ME3 endings are all the same and none of them touch on what happens with the Quarians, Geth, Krogan, or anyone else whose fate you thought you were deciding as the storyline progressed. Kind of a deal breaker for a game based on "choice".
So, yeah. I'd have been happier with "choose this path" if the paths had actually been varied in nature. As it stands right now, you could blow the rest of the galaxy right the fuck up and Buzz Aldrin would still tell his grandkid that you were Jesus.
So, yeah. I'd have been happier with "choose this path" if the paths had actually been varied in nature. As it stands right now, you could blow the rest of the galaxy right the fuck up and Buzz Aldrin would still tell his grandkid that you were Jesus.
Why they sourced the boss battles to other companies and didn't tell these other companies how the game was normally controlled I'll never know.
The rest of the game was awesome though! Atmospheric, great music, matched the original game and the upgrades made you feel like a bad ass, but not too powerful.
The rest of the game was awesome though! Atmospheric, great music, matched the original game and the upgrades made you feel like a bad ass, but not too powerful.
i think they pretty much nailed the gameplay department and art direction as well as the lore.
and yes the 3rd person view was ESSENTIAL to this series. it badly needs it. heck i was actually dying to hear back before it was released if they let us able to switch things to FULL 3rd person and first person. that way it can please both sides of the fanbase.
love the technology and the things that they had done here.
my only gripe is the story. it needs to be complex but not to the point that you lose sight of the main storyline.
i think if square enix hire Warren Spector as the writer and producer of the series as well as Theif 4 that would be awesome :P
or square should hire the Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex team and let them handle the story and pacing.
and yes the 3rd person view was ESSENTIAL to this series. it badly needs it. heck i was actually dying to hear back before it was released if they let us able to switch things to FULL 3rd person and first person. that way it can please both sides of the fanbase.
love the technology and the things that they had done here.
my only gripe is the story. it needs to be complex but not to the point that you lose sight of the main storyline.
i think if square enix hire Warren Spector as the writer and producer of the series as well as Theif 4 that would be awesome :P
or square should hire the Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex team and let them handle the story and pacing.
Everyone who reads a post on Destructoid was knew that the editorial control and general writing ability of the staff is so fucking low that they can't even catch a glaring error in the first sentence of a post. Really, really pathetic. You should all be embarrassed.
@bickle
lol did you even played Deus Ex HR? at all?
the game switches to 3rd person to cover, so it's not really a full first person game.
lol did you even played Deus Ex HR? at all?
the game switches to 3rd person to cover, so it's not really a full first person game.
I'm currently laying through this for the first time, read the review on here and took the plunge. Didn't really like it at first but it has grew on me big time.
I mostly murder people as I am utterly shite at the stealth aspect's of the game, totally butchered the Police Station, and it was in the news! I thought that was awesome! lol
I mostly murder people as I am utterly shite at the stealth aspect's of the game, totally butchered the Police Station, and it was in the news! I thought that was awesome! lol
@PrinceHeir: It's a predominately 1st person game. You can't really qualify something as "essential" to the series when it happens only occasionally in one of the games.
Funny, I found myself screaming 'Nooooo, why did you this? Noooo!' when I played Deus Ex Invisible War.
Warren you make me sad.
You screamed at your "television" and not your "monitor". How even the mighty have fallen to the subpar console versions for the sake of a larger screen.
I will also say, it's not the size of your screen but how far you sit from it.
Also, I did not finish Human Revolution soley due to the boss battles. A stealth oriented player playing on "Give Me Deus Ex" (Hard) is not properly equipped for such a bullshit battle as those provided. Patch the game so I can skip those terrible battles that you now regret.
You screamed at your "television" and not your "monitor". How even the mighty have fallen to the subpar console versions for the sake of a larger screen.
I will also say, it's not the size of your screen but how far you sit from it.
Also, I did not finish Human Revolution soley due to the boss battles. A stealth oriented player playing on "Give Me Deus Ex" (Hard) is not properly equipped for such a bullshit battle as those provided. Patch the game so I can skip those terrible battles that you now regret.
^^My PC is plugged into my TV. My keyboard is on my lap, and my mouse is on a side table.
Deux Ex in 1080p looks just fine to me.
Deux Ex in 1080p looks just fine to me.
@Killrig
Nah, you just suck. My build was hardly combat focused and i took out the first boss. You just need to use a different strategy to take out the boss. Also you played on the hardest difficulty and had trouble with a boss? SHOCKING!
Not that Deus Ex EVER had really clever bosses, they usually just stood you right in front of them and started fighting. If you were lucky you had a kill word for the two Agents.
Nah, you just suck. My build was hardly combat focused and i took out the first boss. You just need to use a different strategy to take out the boss. Also you played on the hardest difficulty and had trouble with a boss? SHOCKING!
Not that Deus Ex EVER had really clever bosses, they usually just stood you right in front of them and started fighting. If you were lucky you had a kill word for the two Agents.
Oh FFS, not the boss battles again. How anyone could suck so damn bad as to have trouble with the bosses is beyond me. All you had to do was fire the Typhoon 3 times on each boss and it was over, even on hard mode.
Seriously, the Typhoon might as well have been labelled the "God Mode" ability, because it: A)Stuns the bosses when fired, B)Cools down before the stun wears off, and C)Only requires 3 shots to win.
You don't need a combat build, you just needed to put ONE FUCKING POINT into Typhoon. The way that they shoved it in your face as the coolest thing ever early on in the game wasn't a clue?
Seriously, the Typhoon might as well have been labelled the "God Mode" ability, because it: A)Stuns the bosses when fired, B)Cools down before the stun wears off, and C)Only requires 3 shots to win.
You don't need a combat build, you just needed to put ONE FUCKING POINT into Typhoon. The way that they shoved it in your face as the coolest thing ever early on in the game wasn't a clue?
Just finished the game yesterday, with 100% achievements (on the 360) in one playthrough. I was a fan of the original and enjoyed the second one a bit, but I have to say that I wasn't all that impressed with this game for a lot of reasons.
For one thing the controls are cumbersome as hell. One minute your using A to selection things (in menu's usually) next thing every thing is asking you to use X.. Thats confusing as hell and a downright stupid design for a game released in 2011. Then the fact that the game revolves around Stealth so much (I'm sorry, I don't care what the dev's are quoted as saying recently, the game really does revolve too much around stealth in every way to make the game anything more then a stealth game with combat elements), that the combat suffered A LOT. When your asked to sneak around so much and not shoot really at all, then you get presented with a part of the game (certain parts, not just boss battles) where you can do nothing but shoot, your not prepared AT ALL to fight in that way, its like going in being completely untrained with afire arm, against dues with decades of experience.
And the hiding against walls, with no real good way to peak out to shoot -but you'll peak out of you push yourself too far over to the side, or if the camera is in a bad place- was annoying as hell, specially for trying to do a stealth playthrough when all your trying to do really is shoot your Tranq gun every once in a blue moon.
That leads to another issue I had: The game ended up being very trial and error, even when I referred to a guide for some help. I found most of the game falling into when hacking, using stealth/takedowns and regular fire fight combat (because of what I mentioned above) all ended up being trial and error. Challenging (at times) yes, but over all it became frustrating simply because it was annoying rather then genuinely hard.
Third thing, and most talked about, were those bosses.. But the problem I had was that even playing on Legend the only boss I took issue with was the first one. He gave me the most trouble because he's the only one that actually asked you to fight him. Otherwise the rest of the bosses went down in a few seconds with next to no damage being taken on my part -ON LEGEND! When I beat the last boss without even fighting anything at all, without even looking at my notes, I was actually pretty pissed myself, even if I knew this was how the boss fights were going to end up.
Another thing is that pacing issues were huge in the game I noticed. The game is tedious in the first section.. Detroit, the first -I'd say- third of the game, is just too packed with stuff in the beginning and it slows the game down A LOT. Then you pretty much blow through China and the other places, even when doing side missions.
Another part of that pacing problem was that the game felt like it was asking you to do many of the same things over and over. Hack this, take out this guy, rinse repeat. And it all felt like it went on for too long. I got to a point towards the end, when I was actually enjoying myself, where I stopped to save and said "You know.. I really just want this to be over."
The visuals were unimpressive. Maybe they'd be better if I played them on my PC (I do have a free copy I got with my PC, I could try) but the characters looked and moved like crap (seriously, they all moved, specially when talking, like they came from around 2004), only a few of them really had the detail that made them look amazing, but amongst the rest they just felt out of place. The world itself looks really great, and I was impressed with how it didn't feel like much of anything was recycled, even with how big it was -but the game suffered from pretty bad bouts of slowdown, specially when in China (on both occasions).
Sound was great except for the fact that almost everyone that voiced most of the people you interact with most (including Jensen himself) all sounded like they were falling asleep while reading their lines.. There were also a few instances where the NPC's would say the same things over and over and OVER again.. That became grating, but not a huge issue.
Story, for a lack of a better way to say it, was a mess. Theres so many things they didn't need to do/put you through to get it, just to end up at the same ending(s). It's part of the pacing issue, but big enough to be its own problem.
And the endings were lame to be honest. I didn't get crazy over it, but they were lack luster, even if they were thought provoking. They did have my roommate saying "where the fuck did they get some of this footage from?" That made me laugh.
So, yeah, I know I went too far into this, but its because the game is literally the freshest thing on my mind right now, but I can see a lot of things Spector would have screamed at.
For one thing the controls are cumbersome as hell. One minute your using A to selection things (in menu's usually) next thing every thing is asking you to use X.. Thats confusing as hell and a downright stupid design for a game released in 2011. Then the fact that the game revolves around Stealth so much (I'm sorry, I don't care what the dev's are quoted as saying recently, the game really does revolve too much around stealth in every way to make the game anything more then a stealth game with combat elements), that the combat suffered A LOT. When your asked to sneak around so much and not shoot really at all, then you get presented with a part of the game (certain parts, not just boss battles) where you can do nothing but shoot, your not prepared AT ALL to fight in that way, its like going in being completely untrained with afire arm, against dues with decades of experience.
And the hiding against walls, with no real good way to peak out to shoot -but you'll peak out of you push yourself too far over to the side, or if the camera is in a bad place- was annoying as hell, specially for trying to do a stealth playthrough when all your trying to do really is shoot your Tranq gun every once in a blue moon.
That leads to another issue I had: The game ended up being very trial and error, even when I referred to a guide for some help. I found most of the game falling into when hacking, using stealth/takedowns and regular fire fight combat (because of what I mentioned above) all ended up being trial and error. Challenging (at times) yes, but over all it became frustrating simply because it was annoying rather then genuinely hard.
Third thing, and most talked about, were those bosses.. But the problem I had was that even playing on Legend the only boss I took issue with was the first one. He gave me the most trouble because he's the only one that actually asked you to fight him. Otherwise the rest of the bosses went down in a few seconds with next to no damage being taken on my part -ON LEGEND! When I beat the last boss without even fighting anything at all, without even looking at my notes, I was actually pretty pissed myself, even if I knew this was how the boss fights were going to end up.
Another thing is that pacing issues were huge in the game I noticed. The game is tedious in the first section.. Detroit, the first -I'd say- third of the game, is just too packed with stuff in the beginning and it slows the game down A LOT. Then you pretty much blow through China and the other places, even when doing side missions.
Another part of that pacing problem was that the game felt like it was asking you to do many of the same things over and over. Hack this, take out this guy, rinse repeat. And it all felt like it went on for too long. I got to a point towards the end, when I was actually enjoying myself, where I stopped to save and said "You know.. I really just want this to be over."
The visuals were unimpressive. Maybe they'd be better if I played them on my PC (I do have a free copy I got with my PC, I could try) but the characters looked and moved like crap (seriously, they all moved, specially when talking, like they came from around 2004), only a few of them really had the detail that made them look amazing, but amongst the rest they just felt out of place. The world itself looks really great, and I was impressed with how it didn't feel like much of anything was recycled, even with how big it was -but the game suffered from pretty bad bouts of slowdown, specially when in China (on both occasions).
Sound was great except for the fact that almost everyone that voiced most of the people you interact with most (including Jensen himself) all sounded like they were falling asleep while reading their lines.. There were also a few instances where the NPC's would say the same things over and over and OVER again.. That became grating, but not a huge issue.
Story, for a lack of a better way to say it, was a mess. Theres so many things they didn't need to do/put you through to get it, just to end up at the same ending(s). It's part of the pacing issue, but big enough to be its own problem.
And the endings were lame to be honest. I didn't get crazy over it, but they were lack luster, even if they were thought provoking. They did have my roommate saying "where the fuck did they get some of this footage from?" That made me laugh.
So, yeah, I know I went too far into this, but its because the game is literally the freshest thing on my mind right now, but I can see a lot of things Spector would have screamed at.
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"For one thing the controls are cumbersome as hell."
I did find them to be a bit counter intuitive, but they weren't that bad, it was to the point were you would just stare at the control, and be like what the hell does this do, but it was far from bad, and after awhile it was pretty intuitive, I'm also sure that this was remedied in the pc version.
"I'm sorry, I don't care what the dev's are quoted as saying recently, the game really does revolve too much around stealth in every way to make the game anything more then a stealth game with combat elements"
You know I actually find that to be untrue, if anything I felt the devs lied about taking the hacking approach (it's nearly impossible and impracticable), but I always felt that one could take the stealth approach or the combat approach, actually due to the somewhat bad ai (there actually better than most) I felt that the game was telling me "save yourself the trouble and kill em". I found that killing them with a smart head was easier than sneaking past them.
"then you get presented with a part of the game (certain parts, not just boss battles) where you can do nothing but shoot, your not prepared AT ALL to fight in that way"
Are you sure you got all the achievements, like pacifist?
"And the hiding against walls, with no real good way to peak out to shoot -but you'll peak out of you push yourself too far over to the side, or if the camera is in a bad place"
Not sure what is meant......
"The game is tedious in the first section.. Detroit, the first -I'd say- third of the game, is just too packed with stuff in the beginning and it slows the game down A LOT"
I was one of those guys that complained at what little there was to do in this game, you get 4 side quest and apartment buildings with nothing interesting in them.
"Another part of that pacing problem was that the game felt like it was asking you to do many of the same things over and over"
Common problem with most video games, but yeah I agree.
"The visuals were unimpressive"
Fucking tell me about it, I felt the surroundings were nicely done, but the character models made me barf, the awkward movements, a stiff face with a piece of trash on the top of their head called hair, horrendous, and honestly took me out of the game far to many times. Look at Half life 2, great character models, and that's 04.
Agreed on the sound department.
"Story, for a lack of a better way to say it, was a mess"
I found it underdeveloped and predictable, and when a "conspiracy" narrative is predictable, then something is wrong.
Agreed on the endings, a bit thought provoking but lame.
But yeah, while I won't go much into it, my quarrel with the game lies within the level design, immediate narrative, and the lack of more. To put it simply, for a game about choices, said choices in gameplay are far to obvious (level design; game in turn becomes linear). Choice in narrative is absent, and only the occasional illusion of choice pops up, to little control, to little world. And finally the game has to little to do, two city hubs with at most 4 side quest, and two other remote locations, there was a shit ton of interesting places in the original, they really messed up on that.
I did find them to be a bit counter intuitive, but they weren't that bad, it was to the point were you would just stare at the control, and be like what the hell does this do, but it was far from bad, and after awhile it was pretty intuitive, I'm also sure that this was remedied in the pc version.
"I'm sorry, I don't care what the dev's are quoted as saying recently, the game really does revolve too much around stealth in every way to make the game anything more then a stealth game with combat elements"
You know I actually find that to be untrue, if anything I felt the devs lied about taking the hacking approach (it's nearly impossible and impracticable), but I always felt that one could take the stealth approach or the combat approach, actually due to the somewhat bad ai (there actually better than most) I felt that the game was telling me "save yourself the trouble and kill em". I found that killing them with a smart head was easier than sneaking past them.
"then you get presented with a part of the game (certain parts, not just boss battles) where you can do nothing but shoot, your not prepared AT ALL to fight in that way"
Are you sure you got all the achievements, like pacifist?
"And the hiding against walls, with no real good way to peak out to shoot -but you'll peak out of you push yourself too far over to the side, or if the camera is in a bad place"
Not sure what is meant......
"The game is tedious in the first section.. Detroit, the first -I'd say- third of the game, is just too packed with stuff in the beginning and it slows the game down A LOT"
I was one of those guys that complained at what little there was to do in this game, you get 4 side quest and apartment buildings with nothing interesting in them.
"Another part of that pacing problem was that the game felt like it was asking you to do many of the same things over and over"
Common problem with most video games, but yeah I agree.
"The visuals were unimpressive"
Fucking tell me about it, I felt the surroundings were nicely done, but the character models made me barf, the awkward movements, a stiff face with a piece of trash on the top of their head called hair, horrendous, and honestly took me out of the game far to many times. Look at Half life 2, great character models, and that's 04.
Agreed on the sound department.
"Story, for a lack of a better way to say it, was a mess"
I found it underdeveloped and predictable, and when a "conspiracy" narrative is predictable, then something is wrong.
Agreed on the endings, a bit thought provoking but lame.
But yeah, while I won't go much into it, my quarrel with the game lies within the level design, immediate narrative, and the lack of more. To put it simply, for a game about choices, said choices in gameplay are far to obvious (level design; game in turn becomes linear). Choice in narrative is absent, and only the occasional illusion of choice pops up, to little control, to little world. And finally the game has to little to do, two city hubs with at most 4 side quest, and two other remote locations, there was a shit ton of interesting places in the original, they really messed up on that.
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