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I fully agree with your score and write up. While I'm 67% into the game and not finish, there's a lot of stuff that just irks me about the game. Don't get me wrong, I love playing it, there's just a few things story wise that don't add up. I can't wait until I get to the end of the story..where ever that may be.
Oh and it's Katt Williams :).
Oh and it's Katt Williams :).
Great review! And thanks for the honest score, I love this game but in a few weeks it will be as forgettable as an ugly child.
Since Age of Conan came out, I've already forgotten this like my ugly child. Still a pretty neat game though, even if it does feel a bit short in my view.
Did I not predict this would get an 8.0?
Someone, PLEASE!! prove me wrong.
Good review, great really. But again, typical DTOID rating and the fact that the review is this late...most people have finished the game by now you know.
I give this review 8.0 flaws out of 10.0 firetrucks...in honor of wiisucks.
Someone, PLEASE!! prove me wrong.
Good review, great really. But again, typical DTOID rating and the fact that the review is this late...most people have finished the game by now you know.
I give this review 8.0 flaws out of 10.0 firetrucks...in honor of wiisucks.
Finally now you guys reviewed it and I can buy it!!!! Haha nah I have had it for a while but just an 8 really? That seems kinda low for a such a good game. Is it possible that the game mechanics are a personal issue and not an actual problem because I love them aside from some very very small aspects. Any way if any one hasnt bought the game yet shame on you cause it is a lot of fun and pulls you into the GTA world!!
Well said man. An enjoyable read, and of the quality and incisiveness I have come to expect from Dtoid. Bravo. I think this review lived up to the hype before its release.
I give this review a 11 out of 10.
Good thing you waited for this below 9.0 review after the release date.
Good thing you waited for this below 9.0 review after the release date.
Good. I like it. GTA4 pissed me off way too often for me to consider it a 10/10 game. Or probably even 9/10.
I have not touched my copy in a long time.
Nice review with a down to earth score as this game does not deserve the 10 that everyone one handed out to it.
Nice review with a down to earth score as this game does not deserve the 10 that everyone one handed out to it.
well written review. can't say i really disagree with you, although i do think the hand to hand and weapon combat is much improved over previous iterations, and really have had minimal problems with targetting. i also really enjoy the hand to hand combat in this game, sure its no ninja gaiden 2, but its definately solid. can't wait for the DLC.
wow, when i read this review i really felt like you played the game first.
it's amazing to finally have that feeling for a GTA review :)
could you please hold off the negative review scores until next year though, i mean honestly unless it's a 10/10 just wait until after the holidays.
it's amazing to finally have that feeling for a GTA review :)
could you please hold off the negative review scores until next year though, i mean honestly unless it's a 10/10 just wait until after the holidays.
Finally someone who I can say I 100% agree with. Everything said here about the niggling gameplay issues and clunky dated mechanics I honestly agree with.
I 100% agree with this review and thank Destructoid for not just plastering another 9/10 or higher game rating out there.
The storyline, game world, and attention to detail is freaking fantabulous. You can have a ton of fun in the game and you can get a lot of the jokes that are built into the game.
Having said that, combat can be frustrating at times, driving even worse, and the pool and bowling mini-games should not be so sensitive to how you use the right analog stick (especially since the pool game already has a mode to determine where you hit the cue ball, which is overriden by how straight you hit it with your analog stick controlled strike - this gives the perception that the angles on the game are off, but it's really your use of the analog stick that is off).
Throughout the game I was looking forward more to the cut scenes than anything else, which is both a good and a bad thing, good for the storyline and voice acting but bad for the gameplay aspects.
The storyline, game world, and attention to detail is freaking fantabulous. You can have a ton of fun in the game and you can get a lot of the jokes that are built into the game.
Having said that, combat can be frustrating at times, driving even worse, and the pool and bowling mini-games should not be so sensitive to how you use the right analog stick (especially since the pool game already has a mode to determine where you hit the cue ball, which is overriden by how straight you hit it with your analog stick controlled strike - this gives the perception that the angles on the game are off, but it's really your use of the analog stick that is off).
Throughout the game I was looking forward more to the cut scenes than anything else, which is both a good and a bad thing, good for the storyline and voice acting but bad for the gameplay aspects.
I definitely agree with you giving this game an 8. It may be alot of fun and it may have improved on the previous titles, but you just cannot deny the fact that it still is a pretty flawed game. I'm just glad you didn't jump on the 10/10 train.
I personally have completed the main storyline, Stevie's Missions, Brucie's Missions, all the side missions and all the Most Wanted Cop missions.
My completion rate is 70.65 percent.
Although I really enjoyed the game, I think that it is over-hyped and does not deserve a 10. It has too many issues to be called perfect. I know a 10 doesn't mean perfect, but the game has some serious issues.
1. The camera hasn't been improved since the first 3D GTA game came out in 2001. The camera, no what what outside view, is too close to the ground. Also, when going up hills, the camera defaults to panning to the undercarriage your car. Also, when turning, the camera can't automatically keep up. It's a horrible 3rd person camera in this day and age. Having to use the right analog stick to readjust the camera all the time prevents you from using the x Brake, making it useless.
2. The driving is awkward. I drive a car, even at high speeds, cars do not drive like a ton of bricks are in the trunk, or gold bars. AI drivers can drive 100MPH and do 90 degree turns with a Cargo Truck with no problems. Too absurd and scripted in chases. people call this realistic, I call it overly exaggerated. Making a turn at 30 MPS is trickly, you basically have to roll into turns, which is weird. None of the cars turn well in the game.
3. The Cover system is mediocre, barely serviceable. You can't tell which cover you can stick to until you try and sometimes you have to restick to cover to fire: clunky. Also, a cover mechanic might work in Uncharted where most of your enemies are a good distance away from you and there's a very minimal chance of being flanked, but in GTA, being shot from all sides is difficult. A cover system is not some magical shooter mechanic it has its limitations. Try shooting someone behind you while in cover, you can't!!! Cover only give you an aim radius of about 180 degrees, it doesn't work when people are shooting you from all directions. It's easier to kill people the old fashioned way. Lock-on and switching targets is also clunky as well as using the trigger to manual aim. The cover system doesn't work and it's easier to just stand in the open and take people out one by one.
4. The melee combat is alright, although pointless when you can use weapons. There's no incentive to use melee.
5. On foot controls suck. Niko turns like a tank. Doing a 180 is much harder than it should be for a human being and staffing is difficult and cumbersome. Sometimes Niko won't run for no apparent reason, yes he was rested, even after pounding the X button. Despite using the Euphoria Engine, Niko still has some weird jumping animations that look like those from the PS2 games.
6. Niko is a wuss. He takes too long to rob a car. If you're being chased by the police and you decide to steal a ride, Niko will slowly knock out the window, open the door slowly, get in, close the door, and casually start the car, all the while police officers or energies fill him with lead 20 times before he's even in the car. Like the X button running, Rockstar could have made tapping the Triangle button make Niko jack cars faster or something. He gets hit by a car or thrown off a bike and he takes his sweet time getting back up, even when under pressure. Try doing a chase mission with a motorcycle and by mistake hit a pebble, fall off and watch Niko slowly get back up and pick up the bike and ever so carefully and slowly get back on!!! I've lost so many missions, because Niko is so slow.
7. Motorcycles suck, see above. The overcompensating physics make Niko fly off his bike even from a small bump. Motorcycles are a pain to use in GTA IV.
8. No Quicksaves or Checkpoints. Having to do the initial drive to a destination at the beginning of a 30 minute mission, because you screwed up at the end sucks!!! So archaic and so outdated. Mindless repetition makes the game three times as long as it actually is.
9. Lots and lots of bugs. Mission critical NPCs suddenly dying or getting stuck in objects make some missions tedious.
10. Too much scripting and hand holding. I can blow up Ray's caravan but I can't blow up a biker or Pegorino's boat with an RPG, because the game designers mandate that I use a motorcycle to follow them for 10 minutes until my bullets can finally kill them.
11. Titanium trees and hedgerows. You can't tell which objects your car can go through and which it can't. I can destroy a lamppost by I can't run over that fence that looks just like the one I ran over just a second ago. Physics rules are so inconsistent, it makes going off road a chore.
12. Money is useless. What's the point of the game being about earning money if you can't do anything with it?
13. Framerate is awful. It is neither good or consistent. Most of the time its in the low 20s and dips in the teens and single digits most of the time. Hurts the eyes and gives me headaches when playing for a long time. Rockstar has had 7 years to get the framerate under contol in their games. With the power of the 360 and PS3 they still can't get it under control. Inexcusable in 2008.
14. Relationships are repetitive and pointless. They're not even worth it for the perks. A lot of the perks don't even work either. Carmen's perk of healing you when you call her doesn't work during a mission, only when you call her when you're not on a mission. Useless!!!
15. I don't know whether it's me, the game, or my HDTV, but anybody think the game is bloody dark at night? I turned up the contrast and brightness a little bit. If I turned up it too much, I would be blinded during daytime hours. If I turned it down again, chasing people in areas with no lights at night became impossible. I spent 30 minutes in an alleyway trying to find an entrance in the night, and could not find it until the sun came up. I think it's either due to the excessive bloom or HDR, but it's bloody awful. It got so bad that I started doing the missions only during daylight hours, making the game infinitely easier.
The Last Mission - A Dish Served Cold, for example, I literally rode my bike into the lake multiple times at nighttime, because it was so dark that I couldn't distinguish the land from the edge of the lake. I finally went to a safe house, slept 2 times, 12 hours and then attempted the game again when it was daylight.
No other game has given me such a problem and that includes Call of Duty 4 and Condemned 2.
It may seem like a lot of little things, but put them together and the can be truly frustrating at times. I'm sad that they haven't fixed many of the issues that have been present since GTA IV, namely camera, saving and shooting. It's been 7 years since GTA III, many of these things should have been fixed by now.
So in the end, I give GTA IV a 7 out of 10. A good game that marred by bad mechanics and bugs that have remained unalleviated since the series inception. The game could have used another 6 months to a year in development to fix things and/or iron them out.
Those are the major flaws I can think of in the game.
My completion rate is 70.65 percent.
Although I really enjoyed the game, I think that it is over-hyped and does not deserve a 10. It has too many issues to be called perfect. I know a 10 doesn't mean perfect, but the game has some serious issues.
1. The camera hasn't been improved since the first 3D GTA game came out in 2001. The camera, no what what outside view, is too close to the ground. Also, when going up hills, the camera defaults to panning to the undercarriage your car. Also, when turning, the camera can't automatically keep up. It's a horrible 3rd person camera in this day and age. Having to use the right analog stick to readjust the camera all the time prevents you from using the x Brake, making it useless.
2. The driving is awkward. I drive a car, even at high speeds, cars do not drive like a ton of bricks are in the trunk, or gold bars. AI drivers can drive 100MPH and do 90 degree turns with a Cargo Truck with no problems. Too absurd and scripted in chases. people call this realistic, I call it overly exaggerated. Making a turn at 30 MPS is trickly, you basically have to roll into turns, which is weird. None of the cars turn well in the game.
3. The Cover system is mediocre, barely serviceable. You can't tell which cover you can stick to until you try and sometimes you have to restick to cover to fire: clunky. Also, a cover mechanic might work in Uncharted where most of your enemies are a good distance away from you and there's a very minimal chance of being flanked, but in GTA, being shot from all sides is difficult. A cover system is not some magical shooter mechanic it has its limitations. Try shooting someone behind you while in cover, you can't!!! Cover only give you an aim radius of about 180 degrees, it doesn't work when people are shooting you from all directions. It's easier to kill people the old fashioned way. Lock-on and switching targets is also clunky as well as using the trigger to manual aim. The cover system doesn't work and it's easier to just stand in the open and take people out one by one.
4. The melee combat is alright, although pointless when you can use weapons. There's no incentive to use melee.
5. On foot controls suck. Niko turns like a tank. Doing a 180 is much harder than it should be for a human being and staffing is difficult and cumbersome. Sometimes Niko won't run for no apparent reason, yes he was rested, even after pounding the X button. Despite using the Euphoria Engine, Niko still has some weird jumping animations that look like those from the PS2 games.
6. Niko is a wuss. He takes too long to rob a car. If you're being chased by the police and you decide to steal a ride, Niko will slowly knock out the window, open the door slowly, get in, close the door, and casually start the car, all the while police officers or energies fill him with lead 20 times before he's even in the car. Like the X button running, Rockstar could have made tapping the Triangle button make Niko jack cars faster or something. He gets hit by a car or thrown off a bike and he takes his sweet time getting back up, even when under pressure. Try doing a chase mission with a motorcycle and by mistake hit a pebble, fall off and watch Niko slowly get back up and pick up the bike and ever so carefully and slowly get back on!!! I've lost so many missions, because Niko is so slow.
7. Motorcycles suck, see above. The overcompensating physics make Niko fly off his bike even from a small bump. Motorcycles are a pain to use in GTA IV.
8. No Quicksaves or Checkpoints. Having to do the initial drive to a destination at the beginning of a 30 minute mission, because you screwed up at the end sucks!!! So archaic and so outdated. Mindless repetition makes the game three times as long as it actually is.
9. Lots and lots of bugs. Mission critical NPCs suddenly dying or getting stuck in objects make some missions tedious.
10. Too much scripting and hand holding. I can blow up Ray's caravan but I can't blow up a biker or Pegorino's boat with an RPG, because the game designers mandate that I use a motorcycle to follow them for 10 minutes until my bullets can finally kill them.
11. Titanium trees and hedgerows. You can't tell which objects your car can go through and which it can't. I can destroy a lamppost by I can't run over that fence that looks just like the one I ran over just a second ago. Physics rules are so inconsistent, it makes going off road a chore.
12. Money is useless. What's the point of the game being about earning money if you can't do anything with it?
13. Framerate is awful. It is neither good or consistent. Most of the time its in the low 20s and dips in the teens and single digits most of the time. Hurts the eyes and gives me headaches when playing for a long time. Rockstar has had 7 years to get the framerate under contol in their games. With the power of the 360 and PS3 they still can't get it under control. Inexcusable in 2008.
14. Relationships are repetitive and pointless. They're not even worth it for the perks. A lot of the perks don't even work either. Carmen's perk of healing you when you call her doesn't work during a mission, only when you call her when you're not on a mission. Useless!!!
15. I don't know whether it's me, the game, or my HDTV, but anybody think the game is bloody dark at night? I turned up the contrast and brightness a little bit. If I turned up it too much, I would be blinded during daytime hours. If I turned it down again, chasing people in areas with no lights at night became impossible. I spent 30 minutes in an alleyway trying to find an entrance in the night, and could not find it until the sun came up. I think it's either due to the excessive bloom or HDR, but it's bloody awful. It got so bad that I started doing the missions only during daylight hours, making the game infinitely easier.
The Last Mission - A Dish Served Cold, for example, I literally rode my bike into the lake multiple times at nighttime, because it was so dark that I couldn't distinguish the land from the edge of the lake. I finally went to a safe house, slept 2 times, 12 hours and then attempted the game again when it was daylight.
No other game has given me such a problem and that includes Call of Duty 4 and Condemned 2.
It may seem like a lot of little things, but put them together and the can be truly frustrating at times. I'm sad that they haven't fixed many of the issues that have been present since GTA IV, namely camera, saving and shooting. It's been 7 years since GTA III, many of these things should have been fixed by now.
So in the end, I give GTA IV a 7 out of 10. A good game that marred by bad mechanics and bugs that have remained unalleviated since the series inception. The game could have used another 6 months to a year in development to fix things and/or iron them out.
Those are the major flaws I can think of in the game.
The targeting works fine for me, I don't get why everyone mentions that as a failure when criticizing the game. Sure it could be better, but I've learned how to use it well. So much so that I refuse to play a deathmatch game without auto-aim allowed as I can usually tear through a lot of people that feel finding cover is a silly idea, muwahaha.
But yeah, everything else is pretty spot on in the review. I would have enjoyed a rant or two about the missing content from the previous installments of the GTA series, but I guess you stuck to the main points of the game in question for a good general review. Nicely done.
But yeah, everything else is pretty spot on in the review. I would have enjoyed a rant or two about the missing content from the previous installments of the GTA series, but I guess you stuck to the main points of the game in question for a good general review. Nicely done.
The worst part of the movie blockbuster mentality currently ruling gaming is that reviewers feel obligated to get their review out 72 hours after getting a review copy. That's not enough time to really think about the game and live in it. On the other hand, the players all line up to get a big name title at release, so that a later review seems like old news. I'd rather read what Jim has done here-- a true, non-rushed review. But I'm old and I don't buy a lot of titles at launch.
Fair review. GTA 4 is a very good game but some things (combat, camera angle sometimes, restarting entire mission - including preamble ) are not what they should be and the 8/10 depicts that.
8/10 is a fair number. When it all comes down to it, GTA4 really is just an improvement over the previous games, not a revolution. It definitely has its flaws. I haven't played the game in over a week because I got incredibly-fires-of-hell angry when I got murdered during a mission by a guy shooting me THROUGH a building. He was trapped in the environment somewhere, shooting at me, and there was no possible way I could kill him because he was INSIDE A WALL. I lost the mission, I turned the game off. Just been playing Persona 3 FES and EVE online since then. Yep.
Very good review, seems very even-handed with what I've experienced so far in the game. I still love it, despite it's few problems. :)
While I agree for the most part, (ROCKSTAR, GET THE DAMN NETCODE UPDATED SO CARS STOP DISAPPEARING,) giving GTA IV a score that is its lowest Metacritic score by a good 5% and weeks lay may get your syndication revoked. Why aren't you whoring yourselves out better? Damn.
There's a better take here than most other reviews, having completed it there is, I feel, a step back in the evolution of the series. Sure we've got nicer graphics and things like the cabaret club, but that kinda thing is just a new lick of paint on an already present concept.
There seems to be a lot missing and I'm not sure whether this is the sacrifice for the improved visuals or things like territory and property are going to be rolled out as charged for DLC. Niko's focus seems to be equal between getting revenge and making money, but there never seems to be anything to do with the money when you get it. Very little to buy, and relationships are fairly arbitrary and meaningless and don't seem to affect much.
All in all it's my impression that we've been given what GTA III was to VC & SA and we are going to have to wait for the later additions to appear in future games/content.
There seems to be a lot missing and I'm not sure whether this is the sacrifice for the improved visuals or things like territory and property are going to be rolled out as charged for DLC. Niko's focus seems to be equal between getting revenge and making money, but there never seems to be anything to do with the money when you get it. Very little to buy, and relationships are fairly arbitrary and meaningless and don't seem to affect much.
All in all it's my impression that we've been given what GTA III was to VC & SA and we are going to have to wait for the later additions to appear in future games/content.
I also haven't played this game since Age of Conan was released. Maybe i'm a bit burnt out on sandbox games but its stupid when something like Saints Row can come out and completely nail combat mechanics and GTA4 is released and it doesn't hold a candle to it. I didn't like the combat mechanics in Uncharted either which GTA4 reminds me of but even worse.
A hope developers realise that a cover system isn't a needed mechanic, it worked for Gears as the whole game was centred around it from the ground up.
A hope developers realise that a cover system isn't a needed mechanic, it worked for Gears as the whole game was centred around it from the ground up.
I hated the driving in GTA IV, but I love Nico as a character more than Tommy Vercetti. Oh, and the TV in the safe house...
REPUBLICAN SPACE RANGERS!!!
@ Tubatic
Is that from The Elephant Man?
REPUBLICAN SPACE RANGERS!!!
@ Tubatic
Is that from The Elephant Man?
"The combat is far from improved,"
I also don't understand the criticism of the targeting and combat systems. They're so drastically improved over previous iterations it isn't funny. It's not gears of war. Yeah, the cover system sucks, but I never felt like I needed it anyway. It always made more sense to hang back a little more and shoot around the edges of your cover rather than to knuckle up against it and blind fire.
And really, the driving is just more realistic. If you knew how to presteer your turns and powerslide for the tight ones, you'd have no problem getting around liberty city. But I guess ten years as a driver doesn't qualify me to talk about how cars don't turn when you're going to fast. Taking a 90 degree turn at 35 or 40 miles an hour IRL is going to make your car skid or roll. Driving in Liberty City is actually a far shot easier than real life.
I'm not going to go so far as to say it's perfect, and I think an eight out of ten is perfectly fair. This ridiculous spouting in the comments about "camera R useless and bad and old" is just that, ridiculous. The camera controls are much improved over Vice City and San Andreas, and are much better than the camera in contemporary now-gen sandbox games like Crackdown and that knock-off GTA game, uhm, Saints Row. Seriously, if you're going up a steep hill, just pull back on the camera stick a bit so you can see over the top of the hill you're climbing. Don't bitch because the game doesn't play itself.
I also don't understand the criticism of the targeting and combat systems. They're so drastically improved over previous iterations it isn't funny. It's not gears of war. Yeah, the cover system sucks, but I never felt like I needed it anyway. It always made more sense to hang back a little more and shoot around the edges of your cover rather than to knuckle up against it and blind fire.
And really, the driving is just more realistic. If you knew how to presteer your turns and powerslide for the tight ones, you'd have no problem getting around liberty city. But I guess ten years as a driver doesn't qualify me to talk about how cars don't turn when you're going to fast. Taking a 90 degree turn at 35 or 40 miles an hour IRL is going to make your car skid or roll. Driving in Liberty City is actually a far shot easier than real life.
I'm not going to go so far as to say it's perfect, and I think an eight out of ten is perfectly fair. This ridiculous spouting in the comments about "camera R useless and bad and old" is just that, ridiculous. The camera controls are much improved over Vice City and San Andreas, and are much better than the camera in contemporary now-gen sandbox games like Crackdown and that knock-off GTA game, uhm, Saints Row. Seriously, if you're going up a steep hill, just pull back on the camera stick a bit so you can see over the top of the hill you're climbing. Don't bitch because the game doesn't play itself.
Good review. I will say though, you have the option to turn off auto-aiming, which I did right from the start. It feels much more like a shooter if you do.
I don't "get" scores, but well written review-- only three things I'd add, personally:
1. At a certain point I stopped caring about Niko and he became just another Tommy Vercetti-- so many people worked for then kille,d he was just a boring psycho and not a complex guy who didn't want to kill anymore. Really took it down a notch or two for me.
2. At one point you say "affects" when it should be "effects." Just sayin'. :)
3. Despite that this game is "an eight" it is still a must-play, if that makes sense. I wish there were two scores-- X/10 for AWESOMENESS and X/10 for NOT AWESOMENESS because it'd be, like, 10/10 awesome, but also 3/10 for not awesomeness.
1. At a certain point I stopped caring about Niko and he became just another Tommy Vercetti-- so many people worked for then kille,d he was just a boring psycho and not a complex guy who didn't want to kill anymore. Really took it down a notch or two for me.
2. At one point you say "affects" when it should be "effects." Just sayin'. :)
3. Despite that this game is "an eight" it is still a must-play, if that makes sense. I wish there were two scores-- X/10 for AWESOMENESS and X/10 for NOT AWESOMENESS because it'd be, like, 10/10 awesome, but also 3/10 for not awesomeness.
Finally someone with the honest-balls to point out the atrocious and unimproved combat. A masterpiece of game that, as most other reviews seem to ignore, still has its flaws. As always Mr. Sterling, I agree whole heartedly.
I personally have auto aim turned off, and rarely use cover, and find it's much less frustrating than using both of said features. Sure it's a bit harder, but except for some times when you can't see your target but they can see you where lock-on would be nice, I find that I want to stab the controller far less.
I would have given it an 8.06236, but to each his own. Here's to hoping that the 2nd and/or 3rd installments in the GTAIV franchise add as much as VC and SA did to GTAIII.
I would have given it an 8.06236, but to each his own. Here's to hoping that the 2nd and/or 3rd installments in the GTAIV franchise add as much as VC and SA did to GTAIII.
Haven't bothered reading the review yet (all in good time!) but scanned over the comments, amazed to see no OMFGAWD U SUX JIM yet. Good job!
Read all of lubczyk's points though, agree with everyone single one, still a cracking game though.
Read all of lubczyk's points though, agree with everyone single one, still a cracking game though.
good thing you guys waited otherwise the internets would have been outraged at the point lowering on metacritic. I believe Dtoid's review method is by far more honest than any others, but it needs that explanation at the bottom to validate that score.
From my 4-5 hours with the game before I returned it, I think the last paragraph sums it up very well. This game was not terribly fun, but I could appreciate the care that went into crafting it. You want to give it an A for effort.
Ultimately, though, I didn't think the story or writing were close to what we would expect from a big-budget movie with similar critical acclaim. Immersive isn't a great selling point if it's immersion in a world filled with people I don't really care about.
Ultimately, though, I didn't think the story or writing were close to what we would expect from a big-budget movie with similar critical acclaim. Immersive isn't a great selling point if it's immersion in a world filled with people I don't really care about.
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