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Destructoid review: Fire Emblem - Radiant Dawn photo

I hate tactical games. I hate strategy games, real-time strategy games, and tactical RPGs. I would rather drive screws into my nostrils with the business end of a power drill and, of course, apply a nail gun to my eyes than play a tactics title. But Linde stole all my Castlevanias, kidnapped my cat and said I can't play Trauma Center until I wrote this review. I drove a few screws into the soft part of my skull in an attempt to assuage his evil, but alas, he made me do it anyway. 

And I, consummate professional that I am, picked myself up from the kitchen floor still moist with the tears of my tantrum and set out to give this one a good, fair shake. Perhaps Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn would be the game that finally opened my mind, reconciled me with my nemesis, opened for me the doors to a new realm of gaming. So did it work?

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii)
Developed by Intelligent Systems
Published by Nintendo of America

Release Date: November 5, 2007

In Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, you control the members of the Dawn Brigade, a team of revolutionaries fighting back against unjust occupation forces in their homeland. And these guys are cartoonishly, insanely unjust – you know, the type of guys who run their own soldiers through for incompetence and then retreat to their own private shadow patch to cackle ominously to themselves. The lead character for the Good Guys is the rather pretty magic user Micaiah, also known as “the silver-haired maiden. Some fresh-faced and strapping young upstarts join the party, and your band hits the streets to deal with the invaders, and the occasional ruffian bandit that the occupation party tends to overlook. And you know, the plot doesn’t get too much deeper than that.

The story takes place across four different sections, and each section of the main plot is divided into a series of goals. Your dudes enter a new area, converse blandly with each other about the objective, and then the battlefield’s yours. Their abilities are all pretty standard fare – elemental and healing spells or archery from range, and then there are the sword dudes who have to be in adjacent squares. Happily, you can move and attack on the same turn, but if your opponent is directly adjacent to you, they will counterattack. When hovering over an enemy, you can see right away whether it’s a fair match or not, as an opponent’s basic stats are displayed alongside yours. Additionally, objectives will vary on different battlefields – sometimes you will need to defeat all the foes on the field, and at other times, you need bring down only a key enemy. Some missions require you to move your entire party to a certain exit point intact, and others merely require you to survive for a set number of turns.

To say the plot is derivative and the characters are two-dimensional is an understatement. This is not the kind of game you play for the riveting story experience. Since Radiant Dawn is actually a sequel to a previous GameCube title, I asked a pal who was into the series and learned that the heroes of Radiant Dawn, the Daein people, were actually the bad guys in the previous game. Now, their country crushed by the last war, the spirited folks of the Dawn Brigade are standing up to their unfair overlords – which might be an interesting turnabout for fans of the series, but to a newcomer, it feels precisely like every other “young anime revolutionaries take on cruel government master” game you’ve ever played.

Except you’d better not get attached to the characters, because they can die, permanently. You can get a game over if you lose Micaiah or one of the other characters key to a particular mission, but your dutiful troops are as good as dust in the wind. This would be quite an interesting opportunity to philosophically explore our relationships with our player characters, to raise our stakes and intensify the game experience. But at times certain missions are so difficult as to feel like sheer brutality, and losing your new favorite front-line superstar who you’ve been grooming and leveling meticulously for ages in one cheap coup de grace is about as philosophically inspiring as a stick in the eye. You always read those silly blog stories about some idiot who flung his Wii remote at the TV or dashed it against the wall, and you laughed at the need for those snug little Wii remote jackets. That idiot was playing this game, and if you plan to play it, you might want to get a cozy little snuggler for your Wii remote, too.

Look. I write navel-gazing philosophical bull on emotional connection and and character personalization in games all the time. But a super hardcore tactical game, which requires that you make your characters into statistical assets is not the place to try and tug heartstrings on the fragile nature of life and death. It’s nothing short of infuriating here, and once you start viewing your characters as disposable target marionettes, you can’t even be bothered to invest the time in them it would require to create a useful fighting force. There are no lessons on character value to be found here – each section of the game unfolds from a different character’s point of view, and even your disposable folks have established identities. So all it really means is get ready to reset, reset, and reset.

This is, of course, a tactical game, and let me stress again that I hate the genre. And yet I ground and grueled my way through as many painful, throbbing inches of this insanely dull, totally hardcore title that I could stand. Though there are helpful tutorials along the way, this definitely seems like the thick of the tactical RPG genre – I don’t think I’m a dull crayon, but this game seems to me to be punitively difficult, the territory of the stat-obsessed, the battlefield veteran, the experienced and detail-oriented resource manager. I went into it with an open mind and a persistent attitude, and I think it’s safe to conclude that if you’ve never tried a strictly tactical game before, this isn’t one to start with.

And you might be tempted to pick it up, because it looks RPG-beautiful, with tons of good looking characters with weird hair colors and intense expression, and lots of swirling full-motion cutscenes. In fact, I’d hazard that they’re some of the nicest FMVs I’ve yet seen on the Wii. Almost PlayStation 2 quality. –I kid, I kid. The game is pretty, the music is listenable, and all the girls are hot. If you are into tactical games, all of these elements provide a nice backdrop. If you’re not, don’t let them fool you.

But here’s the thing I don’t get – and this is the reason why even those master strategists who love a hardcore tactical challenge might want to avoid this title. It’s, like… barely even a Wii title. It doesn’t make use of any Wii functionality at all, except for the fact that you can point at menus – and that’s kind of annoying in this context, just pointing away, stabbing at menus all day. It doesn’t use the nunchuk, there are no motion controls, no voice dialogue, and the battlefields themselves seriously look about identical to the Path of Radiance screenshots I looked at. We’re talking about a GameCube title here. Normally one would expect a next-gen sequel to have some next-gen features, but Radiant Dawn has next to none.

All in all, it’s kind of a crummy package, I think – but I’ve the sneaking suspicion fans of the Fire Emblem series, or those who love a real tactical challenge, might adore it. The plot’s weak, the characters blab on too much, and the whole deal’s very last-gen, but for the truly dedicated, it’s playable, I guess. Rent it if you're a tactical geek -- everyone else should forget it.

Score: 5.0


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107 comments | showing # 51 to 100

SubOrbital's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 21:17
SubOrbital
the thing about reviews though is they really mean nothing. It's what you think of the game yourself that matters. Relying on reviews is like letting other people do your thinking for you. If you're offended by this review, then just play the game yourself and make your own assessment. I didn't agree with this review, but it'll never dictate whether or not I try a game. It's an interesting read though.
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 21:22
ShadowXOR
nilcam: I'm not complaining about the score or how their scoring system works.

And no need to sensor here...it is off the fucking chain!!!
Zac Bentz's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 21:49
Zac Bentz
Fuck the fan-boys.

This is the first useful game review ever posted on the internet.

If you're only looking for someone to say what you want to hear, go jerk-off onto a mirror.

Hey, that kinda rhymes.

What about this? What if she was totally blown away by the game? What if it was actually GOOD and FUN and COMPELLING instead of a PIECE OF SHIT? What then? You'd all be kissing her ass and making ridiculous suggestive sexual comments at her.

From now on, I think every review should be written be a skeptic, or, as it is more commonly known, a PROFFESSIONAL.
The Timely Howard's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 21:57
The Timely Howard
Reading this definitely opened my eyes to why exactly the reviewer shouldn't have been put in charge of looking at this particular game in the first place.

As I'm sure has been previously addressed in comments before my own, the problem here isn't the score attached to the game -- it's that not only are you not a fan of the genre, you're completely unfamiliar with it! An acute summary of your review would end up as something along the lines of:

"I don't like strategy RPGs. They are the bane of humanity.

The game was really hard.

I didn't finish it.

And I don't like strategy RPGs."

The problem here is just that for someone who's seriously considering whether or not to purchase the game, you've provided them with no information whatsoever to go off of. You've given them no idea of what this Fire Emblem has to offer that the others don't -- of these things there are many, though you are blissfully unaware as you suggest in your comment that included: "If I were a fan, what would I think of a game with a dull, transparent plot, no innovation on previous incarnations, and no use of next-gen features?"

This is something I take issue with. You definitely should not have said this, especially considering that you've admitted to not previously playing any Fire Emblem games. If you've never played the other ones, how in the hell would you know whether or not the game had innovated? There is a brand new support and bond system in place, battles saves, and this particular entry in the series has the element of height added into play, among many other additions I wouldn't need to explain to someone who actually knew what they were talking about.

My dear Ms. Alexander, I am not upset in the least that you didn't enjoy this game, nor am I opposed to having someone who dislikes a particular genre to be set into the field with a task to achieve, but...

If you don't know anything about what you're going into, don't come out of it as ignorant as you were before the journey began.

Please.

Also, mad props to Nintendo for catering to us strategic-type folk. They've been translating and localizing these bad boys since Fire Emblem for the GBA, and for the life of me I can't imagine they're making any money on this deal.

Thanks for taking one for the team, Nintendo!
Lukich's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:03
Lukich
@Timely Howard and ShadowXOR:

We're all on the same page, but people aren't reading what's written and are assuming fanboyism. Thanks Timely for giving specific examples to support the argument though.
joeisremy's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:04
joeisremy
Game with no VO oh no!
More like a book where what people are saying can have a lot more thought. Some things can mean a lot when they are written but when spoken sound campy. 's
I can't live in a world where there aren't VO oh wait a ton of my favorite games only have text. Guess I'll fucking deal.
I Think i speak for a lot of people when I say I wish both Tidus and Vaan would shut the fuck up.
braulio09's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:22
braulio09
having someone who hates the genre review the game is still biased. the review doesn't even talk about the flaws of the game, but what she doesn't like in the genre.

meh, i guess aaron can't review everything *goes back to blowing aaron*
ShawnKelfonne's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:31
ShawnKelfonne
I've been a big fan of the Fire Emblem series for years now, and even I will say that I was slightly disappointed with this title. The story is usually so much better than this, and in the case of Fire Emblem 7 on the GBA, I actually got a good feel for the characters personalities and really didn't want to see them die.

I just can't make that same connection with Micaiah or anyone else in Radiant Dawn so far. It's still the same tactical awesomeness that I love, but a bit weak as far as the series is concerned over all. I'd probably give it a 6 or a 6.5, just because the tactical elements are strong as always, but it is definitely not the best in the series.
ZekeThePlumber's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:31
ZekeThePlumber
Leigh, honestly how many hours did you put into the game and how far did you make it? Being someone who has put over 30 hours into the game thus far, by your description, I really wonder how much you really played it, as you described the plot as lacking depth and your relatively simplified summary of the game mechanics.
Comrade Snarky's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:36
Comrade Snarky
I am going to strangle the next r-tard who feels the need to boldly announce that reviews are opinions as if that is some kind of goddamn revelation.

Also, I hate strategy games and I LOVE Fire Emblem. I'll be picking this one up :)
ajaxender's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 22:55
ajaxender
The problem is not that its a review by someone who isnt a fan of the genre - the problem is that its Destructoids Official review. I fully agree with ShadowXOR in this case.

This review would have been fine, in fact very good, as a counter-point to a 'main' review, or as its own, seperate article. Its good to know when a game does not have anything that will appeal to people who are not already fans of the series/genre.

However, the people that really care about this review, are fans, and deserve a review by a fellow fan, because it will give them a much better idea of whether they should get it or not.
Mister Disco's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 23:17
Mister Disco
Look at my avatar. To say I disagree is an understatement, but I will always say, as I've always said, that Fire Emblem is not for everyone. :)
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 23:38
Aaron Linde
You guys need every review to be positive to make you happy? You'll be bored retarded of our work if that was the case.

My priorities for selecting a reviewer are thus: that they have some frame of reference with which to compare a game against genre peers and similar titles. Not that they live and breathe them -- that's not always the person you want writing a review. Enthusiasts of a genre or series are likely to overlook elements of a game that have become conventional, expected.

Take a game like NEVES, reviewed by Toph. When I asked him to write the review, I didn't ask him whether or not he was batshit crazy about block silhouette puzzlers -- I ascertained that he had experience with puzzle games in a general way. He had. So I asked him to write the review. Similarly, Leigh had experience with the tactical RPG genre. She didn't like the game. She's not the only one.

If every review we wrote was written by hardcore fans of the genre, they become effectively worthless. As a card-carrying tactical RPG nut, I found myself in solid agreement with many of Leigh's points, and it occurred to me just how often I let shit like that slide in my monthly diet of grid-based slayin'. An outsider's perspective every once in awhile is profoundly useful in getting a handle on things.

If you think the game's good and you disagree with the review, great. But as Leigh has demonstrated, the general audience might not agree. And that doesn't revoke your license to love what you love, because we're not telling you what to think -- we're telling you what we think.
Mister Disco's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/26/2007 23:42
Mister Disco
Zac:

I understand why you might be all chivalrous and jump to the defense of Leigh, but in this case, some of the detractors do have a point. I think the review is fairly even-handed for the most part, which comes as no surprise, but a couple of things did bug me.

For one, she didn't finish the game, nor did she mention how far she got. The plot could have thickened, the characters might have gotten more interesting, etc. Then it would have been more along the lines of a "slow start" rather than a bland experience overall. I'm not saying one way or another, just pointing that out.

Secondly, she didn't ever play previous incarnations, so to say it doesn't improve on anything from previous games makes no sense. She would only know based on hearsay.

Aside from that I think the review was fine, particularly from the perspective of someone who doesn't like strategy rpgs. She didn't exactly love it, but gave it a fair shake, I would say.
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 00:09
ShadowXOR
Aaron Linde: Obviously you cannot read because I'm not complaining about the score. I don't care if she gave the game a 10. She is not a fit reviewer for this genre. You obviously didn't bother reading my posts because you are addressing issues that weren't even brought up. You need to stop being so hyper-defensive of your review crew and once in a while accept some user feedback. Obviously the vast majority of users agree. We aren't complaining about an opinion, but when the one and only review you provide of a game is by someone that hates the genre, that doesn't help users make a purchasing decision at all.

Like I said, learn to take some criticism. Unbelievable. They can never EVER be in the wrong at all. They are apparently Gods in their own eyes.
The Timely Howard's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 00:11
The Timely Howard
Hey, Aaron. The problem here amongst us down here ain't that she didn't like the game -- it's that her review is just flat-out wrong on several points! Any person can hate on any game in any way they want, but that person should take care to make sure that they're at least making sense and -- dare I say it -- even talking about the right game?

Maybe that's going a bit too far, but it's quite clear in several places that she played through very little of the game. Assuming she took those screenshots herself (what? It's possible), we have enough information to confirm that she played two -- maybe three -- hours of the game. Saying the plot is shallow is not the right thing to do when you never actually get through it.

Yes, Leigh does in fact say multiple times that the game is divided into <i>sections</i>, but the only specific references to the story she provides are from the very beginning of the game.

Besides, mentioning how the game uses the Wii Remote for menus and then claiming the game has "no motion controls"? No voice acting, either? Did I just... fill in the narration between each chapter myself? The narration that happens between almost every fight? Holy smokes, I wouldn't have known that had you not cleverly filled that in for me.

The person that never played Path of Radiance stating that the battlefields look the same as they did in Path of Radiance?

I'm not complaining about the number attached to the review. If somebody wants to give it a 5 that's fine by me. What matters is that the review is coherent and addresses the problems that the game may have. Rev's review of Assassin's Creed, for example, was at least informative to read and provided specific complaints about the game's flaws (of which there are many).

People might just look at the length of this post and cry "fanboy!", but it's important to remember that most of us aren't complaining about the score here -- nor are we complaining specifically about Leigh's ability (or inability) to review games.

She might be perfectly capable, it's just that...

The review lacks specificity. I kind of have my doubts about how much of it she actually played.
Imako's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 00:16
Imako
I agree with Aaron. You guys seriously need to take a chill pill or something. You're all crying because it's not catered to the hardcore fans. Well boo hoo, more gamers than not have probably never played a fire emblem game, and they probably got the information they needed from this review.
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 00:34
ShadowXOR
Imako: You're just talking out your ass. None of us are complaining about that. If you don't know what we're talking about then shut the fuck up.
Lukich's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 01:05
Lukich
Why does every argument against us always go to "stop crying b/c the score was low" or "stop being a fanboy." Just read the posts. Seriously. I feel like people are reading the first 2-3 words of what is written.

-The score given is not the issue
-The fact that she didn't like it is not the issue

-THE ISSUE IS: A person with little to no experience in the genre and a self-professed hate of it is reviewing a game and makes claims as if she does have experience with the genre and more specifically the Fire Emblem series itself
joepaniic's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 01:22
joepaniic
Its funny how he says that getting someone who is a hardcore RTS fan to review this would be a bad idea, but he does not see why getting someone who despises the RTS genre to review this is a bad idea........

love this site, give reviewer respect for trying to approach this open minded, but i agree that she was not the right person to review this.
moeman's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 01:41
moeman
Aren't reviews meant for someone who is on the fence about buying a certain game? Fire Emblem fans will no doubt pick this one up, but I think the writer of this review intended to make a point by mentioning that people who don't like strategy games will not like it. It's what a professional critic does. They don't score a game based on what they think it should get or what fans of solely that genre believe it should get, but rather on the basis of mass appeal. You can't give this game to someone who won't take the time to figure out the subtle nuances and expect them to fall in love with it. Professional critique is all about mass appeal, and how much it will appeal to everyone.
Imako's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:17
Imako
ShadowXOR: dont be such a troll. I was just saying that it's not a horrible review if someone who doesnt know the genre reviews it because it still helps all the people who haven't been a fan know what to expect. I can really see one of my friends who have never played a fire emblem game before having a similiar experience. I'm not saying this was the best way to do a review, but you guys make it sound like it's some sort of conspiracy.
TheBrain's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:31
TheBrain
Eh...this review doesn't help me much as it seems Leigh hasn't played previous Fire Emblems.

I have liked all Fire Emblem I have thus far touched but all the hate piled on Radiant Dawn has made me hesitate. Then I realized that everyone says it is just the same game all over again...which is disappointing, but it helps that this same game happens to be of a variety I enjoy.

Methinks I'll get it...eventually.
Mister Disco's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:35
Mister Disco
moeman: That Leigh isn't a strategy fan doesn't seem to be the point most people are making here. As a professional she should be capable of giving her opinion without (much) bias, and I believe she's quite capable of that, given the circumstances. I don't think any of us are in disagreement about that (well, except the people totally flaming).

I see a lot of people on both sides of this argument jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions about what each other are saying. There doesn't seem to be a lot of actual reading going on.

I agree, obviously, that the people whining about the score need to shut up. It's an opinion, get over it.

But equally we have people like Zac and Linde, who are vital members of our beloved Dtoid editor crew who, frankly, aren't reading these comments they are replying to. I'm shocked that I can read a comment, then a direct reply that seems to have not even taken in the point of the original comment, by a member of the crew here at Dtoid. I respect you guys, I really do, but that just doesn't sit well with me. People are giving you feedback, gents. Genuine feedback. This is part of what makes Dtoid great, so please take some of what is said to heart.

My opinion isn't relevant here, and I pretty much already stated it anyway so I'm leaving it at that. However, I think it would be wise of everyone to read each other's comments a bit more carefully. There's wisdom to be gleaned from much of this, on both sides of the fence.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:47
Aaron Linde
It wasn't meant as an all-encompassing response, yo. I was mostly replying to the people who were freaking out about someone who isn't a huge tactical RPG fan reviewing a tactical RPG. I hadn't yet read through all of the comments and didn't direct my response to anybody in particular, so, sorry about that. I wasn't responding to you direct-like.

But I'll make a confession: a lot of what you refer to as feedback is simple disagreement escalated towards a response for what seems to be interpreted as a personal assault. After the Assassin's Creed review flashmob, I almost wanted to stop paying attention to comments altogether, because over half of the responses we got were folks telling us that we were fucks and should rot in hell for not liking the game as much as they did.

I understand your hangup, but believe me: with the norm swiftly approaching 150+ comment flamewars over scores, it becomes increasingly difficult to give the sort of attention that informed, intelligent responses certainly deserve. Mostly because I'm too busy slamming my face into a wall for thinking that reviews on a blog were a good idea.

Whether or not the slew of accusations against Leigh have any merit is beside the point, because these backlash incidents have become part and parcel to our reviews, so much so that I feel vaguely uncomfortable asking anybody to put their face and name on a review and risk pissing everybody off for being honest. The question is: what do you guys want? Brutally honest game reviews, as independent and uninhibited as we promise all our content to be, or a nice, simple run-down of a game's features in an unassuming, uncritical way?

And because I appreciate your direct and forthright means of saying so, Senor Disco, I'll offer you the same courtesy: the constant flood of bullshit we put up with in almost every review of an even remotely high-profile title makes me lean towards the latter, if only because it generates less hate towards our writers who are otherwise beloved by the community. I don't want that for anybody.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:49
Aaron Linde
Good god, does that last paragraph sound back-handed? I didn't mean it to be. I wasn't being sarcastic or anything. I do very much appreciate your being direct and forthright.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 02:54
Wedge
"My priorities for selecting a reviewer are thus: that they have some frame of reference with which to compare a game against genre peers and similar titles."

I think she's been fairly clear that she doesn't even have that. She said she loathes any game remotely like this at all, and obviously has no reference point whatsoever. So why did you force her to review it if that is your criteria?
Mister Disco's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 03:01
Mister Disco
Aaron: Thanks for reading and replying.

I freely admit that I have no idea what it's like on the side of the fence you reside on, so my perspective is only from a member of this community. That is what I see, and so that's the way I present it.

I'll be honest - I would rather see the brutality of a harsh review than pure fluff. I have enjoyed most of the reviews written here at Dtoid for that very reason - stark honesty, risking annihilation by fanboy mob. If I want to see how "wonderful" Halo 3 is I'll go read another site. Insert slurping sound here. Honestly, it's quite brave what the reviewers here do, in that "Internet Bravery" way, if you catch my drift. ;)

Perhaps this review wasn't the ideal review. I think it has little to do with Leigh, and more to do with the fact that Leigh was all alone on this. Perhaps it would have been better to have more than one person review it, as I have seen done on previous titles. I really enjoy those reviews because multiple perspectives yield a more complete picture. I know you guys are busy and don't always have time for that, but it's far more comprehensive and informative.

As to the rest, chin up, my friend. I'm not about to tell you how to do your job, but I'm sure when you signed up for this you were prepared for the good and the bad. For every commenter who thinks you guys are "fucks and should rot in hell" there's one to tell that guy to STFU. It's the nature of the internet, donchaknow. :) S'not all bad.
jeep's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 04:10
jeep
wow...see i take this review with some actual revelance. I am indeed a fan of the SRPG genre...but more in the vein of the FFT and Disgaea styles. This game looked appealing but I couldnt get over the fact that it has little cuts for attacks...I enjoy just a simple sword swipe with the worry of a counter attack personally....but on to your review. It was a good review since i have never picked up a FE game and had been considering this. And are you really surprised a Nintendo game has no real story? C'mon...its Ninty...I dont think i've played a game yet that has a story that sharpens the mind. They are gameplay people of the truest since. I'll pass on this...maybe rent it maybe not...but I'll stick to the hopes that a true sequel to FFT will come...and hopefully without the weird british accents that square decided to put in all the Ivalice games.
Lukich's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 04:33
Lukich
There's no hate or ill will coming from me. I just think don't think Leigh should have been in charge of this review. The numeric score doesn't matter, but sadly, neither does the opinion because its ill informed. Still love you guys though :D
brad drac's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 08:42
brad drac
As someone who's never played a fire emblem game, but loves advance wars like a brother, I thought it was a pretty fair and well written review. While I (very) frequently disagree with reviews this site, I try to express my views in a well thought out manner. I always appreciate a dissenting voice, and I believe it's far more important for a reviewer to cover the negatives than gush endlessly about what they love. After all, the purpose they serve is to advise people as to what's worth buying, ain't it?

I also think you reviewers should not feel a compunction to respond to every problem, there are usually plenty of people on both sides in the community to duke things out between ourselves. That said, your attention is always appreciated. Keep up the good work.
dclark's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 09:05
dclark
Its good to hear that someone who doesn't like the genre didn't like it. To me that's a plus. I can't believe the hate that's being thrown around for the review though. An opinion is an opinion. Lets be serious for a moment. I read this review already knowing that I wanted to buy this game. I read it for a couple of reasons. #1: I wanted to make sure that there was very little wii remote activity, which thankfully there isn't.(again, this is a plus in my books that she listed as a minus) and #2: I wanted to see it directly compared to FE: PoR. I got the first answered, quite well. I did learn a lot about the game, but I know that the tacked on number carries very little weight in my own heart. The second, however, leaves me wanting...

...so, I'm off to ign and gamespot now. I'm not goign to bitch about it.
Oogle's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 09:09
Oogle
Here are some of the main things I specifically look for when playing a fun SRPG...

1. That feeling of "Can I plan out an interesting way to take out an opponent?"
2. Can I make mistakes and say to myself "Oh yeah. I know that was a mistake because I forgot to account for some strategic info that the game readily provided to me"
3. Do my player pieces have advantages/disadvantages? I want to know that I have characters that work well in certain situations, but not others.

So, how does this game match my criteria?

1. Yes. It has this. There are levels where I can "brute force" my way through. In the same levels, however, there are times when I can take advantage of terrain or take some alternate route to achieve a more stealthy/flanking victory. I'll admit, though, that there are some levels that don't feel that way (e.g. Michaiah getting ambushed level)
2. Yes. It has this as well. The tutorial also clearly spells out how these scenarios can occur. One obvious example: I had forgotten to check out the range of my opponents and sent one of my strongest characters (Sothe) out a little too far into the battlefield and into the range of too many opponents. He promptly got dispatched by 3 enemy opponents. Lesson learned: check out the range of your opponents before moving. There are much more subtle examples as well (e.g. forgetting to protect Leanne)
3. Somewhat. Some characters really feel overpowered. There were times in the game where I felt that my character could just not lose. I guess this was because I was playing on easy. So, if it was supposed to be this way, then I guess I'll just up the difficulty next go around.

So if your criteria for SRPG games matches mine, I say "go buy it". You'll have fun planning out ways to decimate your opponent.
dclark's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 09:24
dclark
@ jeep:

I still haven't played this one yet, but I know that Path of Radiance had an option to skip the cut scene involved in attacking for small sword swipes as you've said. I can't imagine they'd take that option out.
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 10:39
ShadowXOR
I thought this site was still somewhat small and tight knit but apparently any form of constructive criticism is unwelcome. I'll stop wasting my time.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 11:50
Aaron Linde
You will be missed!

Anyway, I didn't force her to write the review, Wedge. I asked her if she wanted to review it, and she said yes -- not "oh no no no please not a TRPG".
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:20
ShadowXOR
I'm not leaving, I'm just not going to bother trying to submit any feedback to make the site better.

A growing website like this should listen to their users, I can't count the number of people I've turned onto your site so being such a dick to everyone (especially when they are providing mature discussion, something very lacking here) isn't helping anything.

So are you guys on GameRankings yet? With reviews like this, just slapping a number on it isn't going to do much towards your legitimacy.
neverknowsbesta's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:29
neverknowsbesta
I have to say, I'm really surprised by the hatred and outright hostility I've seen in these comments.

To all the fire emblem fans: You guys obviously love this game. You've loved every version of the game you've played. So why on earth are you complaining about her review? You don't even need to read it! You know exactly what you're getting into.

This isn't, nor does it even try to be, a review for fans of the series. But as someone who has never played a fire emblem game, this review was very helpful to me. I've been looking for a good tactics game and i know that this game won't be it. Hell, all of the fans of the series have admitted themselves that this game isn't for everyone, or even for most people.

I would encourage everyone complaining about her review because they are fans of the game to think for a moment about how this review is really not for them. You want a review that matches your own perspective (that of a fire emblem fan).

But the thing is that not everyone looking at this review is a fire emblem fan. I've never even heard of the game. And this review is very helpful because it comes from the perspective of someone who like me, hasn't heard of the game.

There are going to be many reviews all over the internet on this game, and the majority of them will probably be from the perspective of fans or of the series or at least the genre.
What then is really so terrible about one review that gives the honest opinion of someone who sees things differently than you all do?

I do agree with a lot of the fans in a way. This really is a terrible review but only for fans of the game. It's not going to help fans decide to buy the game or understand what is in it. But this review is there to help those who aren't fans understand what they are getting into.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:32
Aaron Linde
We're not being a dick to anybody. And forgive me, but much of the discussion that goes on in our reviews is far, far away from mature discussion.

We're trying our best to use the ten point scale, and it's being rejected because most folks are still hanging onto the three point curve. But I have to use the scores, because Niero says so. And if I have to use the scores, we're using the scale as we've defined it. I'm not going to expect any of our writers to give a bad game a 7 just because that's the convention.

We listen to our users, but this is editorial, this is opinion. This is about how we feel about a game, not about what we think will make everyone happy. If I can't break convention by abandoning the scores, the least I can do is try my best to use the system the way it ought to be, as opposed to the way it is.
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:37
ShadowXOR
You keep talking score, but you obviously aren't grasping what the majority of us are saying.

Let me put it this way: I have never played a Fire Emblem game, I have no attachment to the series, I don't care if she gave it a 1. My problem with the review is you have someone who hates strategy games reviewing a strategy game. How many times do I have to post this until you read it and understand it? It wasn't just me either, this is what the majority of us are saying. I am not hung up on the score at all, if it deserves a 5, fine. But let someone who is familiar with strategy RPGs tell me it is a mediocre game.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:50
Aaron Linde
You brought up the score, which is why I responded to your bringing up the score. Jesus.

And I get what you're saying. I already replied to it:

"My priorities for selecting a reviewer are thus: that they have some frame of reference with which to compare a game against genre peers and similar titles. Not that they live and breathe them -- that's not always the person you want writing a review. Enthusiasts of a genre or series are likely to overlook elements of a game that have become conventional, expected.

Take a game like NEVES, reviewed by Toph. When I asked him to write the review, I didn't ask him whether or not he was batshit crazy about block silhouette puzzlers -- I ascertained that he had experience with puzzle games in a general way. He had. So I asked him to write the review. Similarly, Leigh had experience with the tactical RPG genre. She didn't like the game. She's not the only one."

I understood. I get what you're saying, and I responded.

When I asked her to write the game, she didn't tell me how she felt about TRPGS. I knew that she had experience in the genre, and that was all I needed to know. I was certainly surprised when I read her review, but I felt no need to take it down or ask her to rewrite it, because having hardcore fans of the genre review a game within that genre isn't always appropriate. As I mentioned earlier, they tend to notice the things that hardcore enthusiasts take for granted or would otherwise go unnoticed.

Not everyone who might be interested in Fire Emblem is a hardcore Fire Emblem fan -- in fact, in this day and age with the Wii's increasing reach, there's likely a huge number of folks curious about the game who have never been much for the genre. Leigh made her intentions extremely clear -- it would've been irresponsible if she *hadn't* mentioned her dislike for the strategy RPG genre -- and serves well to represent those of us not exactly batshit crazy over Fire Emblem.
neverknowsbesta's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 12:51
neverknowsbesta
@ShadowXOR
I have to say, I don't think you're listening to what some of us are saying. You keep saying that she shouldn't be allowed to review strategy games if she hates them. But i personally don't understand what that has to do with anything.

I want to read a review that largely follows my own perspective. I only picked up Disgaea because even people who had ignored SRPGs gave it great praise. Fire Emblem obvious isn't garnering the same kind of response. Obviously, this game won't appeal to people who don't already like the game.
I can't stress enough that this is exactly the kind of review i want. Her perspective is very helpful because it mirrors my own. If i read a review by someone who loved the game, they wouldn't bring up all the flaws that fans would be willing to forgive.
Does this make sense?
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 14:00
ShadowXOR
That made me feel a lot better. Maybe the reviews on this site just aren't for me but I'll be damned if I don't love the humor.
Aaron Linde's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 14:27
Aaron Linde
We're in agreement there. The one thing I can't stand about the reviews is that the climate gets so goddamn serious -- but it's something we have to deal with, because we take games seriously, you know?
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 14:29
ShadowXOR
Yeah, I know what you mean.
MasterMS's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 16:34
MasterMS
What's everyone getting so upset about? Isn't it better than be honest about a game? I mean come on Leigh may not like these kinds of games but as a gamer she still as the ability to form an insightful review. I don't know, I don't even know why people care so much about reviews. You rock Leigh don't let the fanboys get ya down
ShadowXOR's Avatar - Comment posted on 11/27/2007 22:29
ShadowXOR
Well I just bought this game out of spite. My first Fire Emblem game. We'll see how this goes.

Leigh: Don't let the fanboys get you down, but feel free to listen to BRUTALLY HONEST (sound familiar?) input from users like me. You guys are being honest and so are we, but mainly it seems like all we hear back is "you're wrong".
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