Atlus is a name that strikes delight in the heart of many a gamer, and I count myself as one of that collective. Aside from the brilliant Persona 3, Atlus has been responsible for many well-respected titles such as the Trauma Center series, Etrian Odyssey and the Shin Megami Tensei games. Of course, not every game is a gem, but it's safe to say that when Atlus announce a title, a lot of people are awaiting the release with excitement.
Baroque was no exception, and the complaints of many Wii owners about the lack of RPG focus on the console surely only placed it higher on people's "do want" lists. For PS3 and 360 owners, however, the common complaint is that the game selection for the Wii can't compete graphically against Sony and Microsoft's consoles. If you're a fan of Atlus, RPGs or both, you're surely hoping Baroque is able to overcome that bias with story and gameplay, yes? I can tell you all about that.
Step into my review office, dear sirs (and ladies.)
Baroque (Nintendo Wii version reviewed)
Developed by Atlus
Published by Atlus
Released on April 8th, 2008
I'm going to be straight with you here, compadres: The first twenty minutes of playing this game, I detested every second of it. I don't know if it's the graphical transition from recently played RPG Lost Odyssey to the clearly lesser Wii graphical capability or the fact that there's something astoundingly awkward about everything after the opening titles, but I can say that I have rarely been bewildered by any game I have played (the last one I can remember feeling that way about was Cho Aniki, and it features exponential phalli, so it's kind of understandable.)
For example, the training dungeon (which is NOT right in front of you in the starting area as one would assume, but rather off to the right; the main dungeon is in front of you, which you'll likely wander into first and die in) is hosted by a lovely young man known as Coffin Man, whose catchphrase is -- I shit you not -- the word "goddammit." He peppers everything he tells you with the word, including such gems as "Don't let those goddamn monsters get too close to you" and "Making dungeons is hard, so please look forward to trying it, goddammit." Um....is this for real?
Seriously though, the game is rated Teen and while I did end up laughing eventually, I think this provides a weird sticking point that would likely offend religious parents who bought this game for their children. It's not just that he says the word once, it's his almost determined consistency of use that makes me envision a schoolteacher mom with steam pouring out of her ears. Not to mention, it's the most awkward thing I've seen since the general reaction to Duel Love.
So, the story of Baroque begins with you not being able to remember the story. You apparently have amnesia, although no one tells you that word for word, which is something you'll want to get used to. The people that populate the Outer World where you begin the game are some of the most vague bastards you will ever have the misfortune of meeting. It's a shame, because the character design is interesting, but either poor localization or just plain poor dialogue writing is mad at work here. The Horned Girl from some of the screenshots you've seen in the past is possibly the worst. I've seen better acting in Ishtar.
Anyway, the title Baroque is actually a word derived from the Portuguese word "barroco" which refers to "distorted fantasies." The beings you meet are clinging to their Baroques in order to survive, which helps to explain a bit of why things are so damn weird around here. There's also some business about a bunch of zealots called the Order of Malkuth, a tragedy called The Blaze, and a process called Idea Sephirah, which sounds a little like Sephiroth and daydreams reformulated. If it sounds confusing now, it's twice as much so when you're actually playing it.
A quick word on the Wiimote and Nunchuk versus the Classic Controller: Being the old-fashioned type that I am, when I play a Wii game I go straight for the Classic Controller most of the time unless it's a title like Wii Sports. I played Baroque both ways, and both are just fine -- neither outweighs the other in ease. Using the Wiimote takes more effort as sword use has been paired with waggle, but I actually felt the Wiimote and Nunchuk were a tad more intuitive and easy to use than the Classic controller, so use that info as you will.
The overall feel of the combat is decidedly Roguelike, so if your taste leans towards JRPGs, you may find yourself saying, "Is this it?" Yep, pretty much. You more or less kill stuff, find items, and talk to figments of Dave McKean's imagination in a vain effort to grasp the storyline. Once you get down there, though, the appeal of the grind kind of hits and you find yourself kind of enjoying that portion of Baroque. Or at least, I did, before I died and found myself in the Outer World again with all my items gone and back to level one. Yep, that's what happens when you die. Swell.
The other thing that happens when you die, however, is that the story progresses. This is probably one of the most interesting things about Baroque, and while I wish the story had been a little bit less cloudy, this feature still stood out as a great idea. The atmosphere gets decidedly darker as you make your way down through the levels, and the creature design is neat, especially if you're into horror and such. After getting far enough down there, I almost forgot the goddammit business had even happened. Almost.
I feel I should mention that there is a way to save items, so after you die and are fully stripped of everything you worked so hard to gain that you can go and grab a few of those items to start again with. Apparently you can throw items into Consciousness Orbs that you come across while in Neuro Tower and they will transfer to the kid in the Outer World who will hold things for you. The game NEVER tells you this clearly, and it was only after I read the instruction manual that I understood how this worked. Counter-intuitive doesn't really begin to describe this game.
Sounds fun, huh? I wanted so much to love this game, as I often raved about it in posts before it was released. Although the older-looking graphics would be easy to blame, Baroque's worst crime is its oddy blurry intentions -- I felt like I still didn't really know what was going on until the very end, but instead of being masterfully handled in the process, I was kind of fumbled instead. Sometimes being fumbled is good, but, you know, not always. I can't speak for the PS2 version, but I can say that unless you are a hardcore Atlus collector or dungeon crawling obsessee, you'd be best off saving your money for something a little more compelling.
Score: 4.0 – (Poor. An admirable effort with a sliver of promise, but essentially mediocre.)
Contest:
11:04 AM on 04.10.2008
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I'll still pick it up - I wanna hear coffin man do his thing
Good review, you just saved me some money.
I'm used to dying and losing everything in games like this, so that didn't bother me, especially since you can save upon exiting every floor. This gives the game a kinder feel than most roguelikes.
If you like roguelikes or hate yourself, you should check out this game. Kudos to Atlus for bringing us the most niche of titles. Risks like that require gumption.
saving money though.
HOLY SHIT. You had to read the manual? UNTHINKABLE.
And somebody missed the entire point of the game. You reviewed this like it was some generic JRPG, but it isn't. It's a Roguelike. It's no different from Shiren the Wanderer or Azure Dreams or Izuna: Legend of Unemployed Ninja.
For instance, you reference that having to restart at level 1 with no items when you die as a bad thing. It's the WHOLE POINT of a Roguelike game! The point is to find items randomly and force you to use what you have on hand to solve problems, rather than just find the best stuff and keep it forever. You aren't SUPPOSED to keep your items for the most part, because it would defeat the entire purpose of the game.
As for the Horned Girl, her speech is supposed to be stilted. The Blaze erased her sense of self, and all she can do is repeat aloud the thoughts of others that pass by her. If she sounded any different, it would sound awkward.
And you mention that you "felt confused until the end", but did you actually reach the real end? The game doesn't end when you reach the bottom of the first 20 floor tower you know. That's just the beginning.
:/ Come on Colette I thought you liked good games.
Thanks for reading.
1. Is this turn-based, pseudo turn-based (Azure Dreams) or just another 3D hack and slash with RPG stats?
2. Camera angles a problem? My friend has motion sickness - would rather not keep the barf bag near the couch.
The Camera is fine, but takes a little bit of getting used to. The only way I feel they could have improved it would be to make it so Z-targeting focused the camera on the monster you're fighting.
The Camera is fine, but takes a little bit of getting used to. The only way I feel they could have improved it would be to make it so Z-targeting focused the camera on the monster you're fighting.
Let's pretend I haven't been following this game and am not familiar with the details (because I haven't). What are the game mechanics like? You mention a few, like dying and essentially having to start over and transferring items to some kid in the Outer World (whatever that is), and talk a little bit about some story elements, but you mostly seem to focus on that fact that it was a confusing and unlikeable experience for you. After reading this review I don't feel like I'm any more informed about this game than before I read it, other than the fact that you didn't seem to care for it. Maybe you thought it was so bad that it wasn't worth going into detail about the mechanics or story? Maybe I don't quite understand what a review is supposed to be, but I was expecting a little more information about the game along with your opinions.
Simply because certain aspects of the game are intentionally done so doesn't make them good in and of itself. If a gameplay mechanic hurts the gameplay, then the game needs to have something else there in order to make up for it, some kind of reasoning behind it. It has to either make the game more entertaining, or provide some deeper meaning, or some other reason. Even then, it comes down to whether that trade-off, gameplay for something else, is worth it.
I'm personally intrigued by this game on the basis of style and the face I've never played a rogue-like game before.
I appreciate that you wrote this with the traditional JRPG player in mind. I was vaguely hoping it was old school, but it sounds like its not immediately what I want. Marking some of the rogue elements don't feel like a disservice, because you're definitely informing against the most basic perception of JRPGs that average user X would have.
And, thank you for your link to roguelike in wikipedia! I played a little Rogue back in the day for a few weeks, and kind of enjoyed it. I'm actually a little excited to know that games are still made with that cruel dungeon crawler sensibility!
@Gen Eric Gui - I'd really like to see your review of the game. Not trying to call you out or anything, but I'd like to see a counterpoint by someone that is "attuned" to the play style and seems to have a passionate appreciation of the niche.
I'm actually against reviewing Roguelikes in the first place. 99.99999% of the time, a review of one can be boiled down to two lines. "If you like Roguelikes, you'll like the game. If you don't, you won't." This review says it's a bad game, but it's not. It's a roguelike. And I completely respect a person's opinion to not like those types of games, but don't say it's a "bad game" because you essentially don't like the genre. That's no better than what Nintendo Power did with the game.
Colette, your assertion that this game is less than average and thus "assy" troubles me. In spite of being an opinion as opposed to a factual statement, it is wrong. I humbly invite you to bite my biscuits.
Hold on here, you both seem to be crying foul at Gen Eric based on some unreasonable conclusion that he is spitting mindless vitriol about this review. I don't know anything about "roguelike" games but his replies don't seem to fit the description of angry or fanboyish gamers from your article. You don't have to agree with him that this type of game shouldn't be reviewed but disregarding his disapproval in this context seems biased.
You both seem to be representing the very replies you wish weren't so prevalent on reviews. This type of hypocrisy would be easier to ignore if you hadn't lambasted people that do this as much as you did.
I think the review is well written and does a good job of letting gamers know what they're in for before dropping $40 on the game. The review also indicated that this is a very niche title that will appeal to a very certain audience, as seen in this line: "... I can say that unless you are a hardcore Atlus collector or dungeon crawling obsessee, you'd be best off saving your money for something a little more compelling." I think most roguelike fans are the dungeon crawling obsessee cited.
@Audio Video: If you're interested in roguelikes, I'd recommend checking out Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer for DS. It's a really great roguelike game and is much more indicative of the genre than Baroque is. Baroque's real time battle is not very roguelike at all.
one thing i did want to comment on was:"...a process called Idea Sephirah, which sounds a little like Sephiroth and daydreams reformulated."
I was reading some gershom scholem for research (yes, im an academic, bite me) and came across the actual origin of the word "sephiroth" which is basically a straight copy of the hebrew word sefirot (or sephirot, or sephiroth in a church latinization.) Its a kabbalistic concept which i wont try to go into (there's a decent if flawed explanation on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephirot) but it does seem like this game's use is slightly (very slightly) closer to the original meaning than with FFVII's Sephiroth. I've noticed that as a weird pattern in Japanese games particularly with using Hebrew words. (in this same game they also have characters named apparently Urim and Thummim which is another obscure hebraic reference, this time to the breastplate (or objects contained within) worn by the high priest back in the first and second temple periods.)
@nilcam: I've heard about that one and I'll consider picking it up now. It obviously doesn't have the same oddball pseudo-religious style of Baroque, but I do like my DS.
I think Colette did the right thing in approaching it from a broad point of view, but I also think she did it a disservice by mostly ignoring its target audience.
I kid, I kid.
In all honesty, I've enjoyed Disgaea and Nocturne from the Atlus camp, the rest of their titles just haven't been that good for me.
And holy crap, random dungeons and that you die, you lose all your items crap, like I need any more reasons to stay from this.
Though it is rather funny to see Gen come to the rescue of a game he seems to enjoy, I liked his triple posting up there.
Its obvious you like it dude, I don't think Collette not liking it is gonna take away from that, Rev Anthony gave Condemned 2 a 3.0 and I love the hell out of it, I didn't go on a tirade in that review, I just ignored it like I do with 90% of reviews.
Why don't you do the same instead of bitching at Collette and basically saying she's not doing her job right, which is kinda rude btw.
We've almost been trained to think that being killed in a game results in a - pun not intended - dead end. It's bad thing. So many people might not be able to get past the idea of death as advancement instead of punishment.
I'm probably going to rent it, partly to give myself a break from SSBB, and also because I want to judge this game for myself since it seems to be getting very mixed reivews.
God damn..
I recently picked up Shiren the Wanderer for the DS (another Rouguelike), and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Granted, it's really frustrating when I die and go all the way back to the start of the game with no experience and no items, but the presentation helps. It's a simple SNES-style design with a really clear goal in mind: make it to the top of Table Mountain. I can imagine Baroque's presentaion hurting itself along the way...you die and go back to the start, and have to trudge once again through shit-colored corridors with creepy enemies and vague, borderline-retarded characters.
Er, sorry, I don't mean to ramble. I guess I just mean to say that if you're going to have a brutally difficult game, you'd better make it damn easy on the eyes. And as Shiren has shown me, you don't need a 360 or PS3 to do that...
Is the game globally turn-based?
I do agree that the majority of gamers out there will give Baroque a pass. But my question is... Is this a bad game because you don't enjoy rougelikes or is it a bad rougelike? There's a big difference between the two and I'd like to see what someone who enjoys rougelikes would say about this particular one.
I've never played a rougelike before and the wiki article left me curious. A game with permadeath is something I have yet to try. I think I'll rent it and see for myself.