Yeah, you should take that title with a huge grain of salt. Because, in an effort to create a new and vaguely recurring article here at the 'toid, I proposed to the staff that we discuss a random topic in our internal emailer and put it out for all to see. (Our internal emails are legendary, by the way.)
I made the suggestion that our first topic be about the new SSFII Turbo HD Remix beta that recently hit XBLA. Sadly, it seems, I was the only person on staff to pony up the cash to play me some Street Fighter. Now one may think that the conversation would have abruptly ended there, but like I said: Our internal emails are legendary. The topic ended up evolving into a frank discussion about Live, PSN, Home, and some weird thing called Qore.
So without further ado, I present the unedited, uncut discussion that was prompted by the first ever Destructoid Discusses!
I promise that we'll stay on topic next time ... or not.
Dyson
So, anyone played it? I spent a couple hours with it last night and think that, so far, it's pretty awesome. The online is janky, but at least it's better than Hyper Fighting.
Samit Sarkar
No 360 = no beta for me. :(
Justin Villasenor
Not wanting to buy Commando 3 = no beta for me. :/
Jonathan Ross
Same thing here. I have no interest in Commando.
Jim Sterling
My gold expiring = no beta for me. :(
Nick Chester
Same. No Gold.
Samit Sarkar
How does the EIC of Destructoid.com not have an Xbox Live Gold subscription?
Orcist
You shark me a SSF code of something, and I'll give you all sorts of frank chit chat. I don't have 10 bucks to burn.
Also, no gold.
Jim Sterling
He knows there are roughly fifteen better things to do with money?
Samit Sarkar
Well yeah, but I figured he could, I dunno, talk to some GameStop peeps and get those free month of Xbox Live cards from traded-in copies of GTA IV or something.
Topher Cantler
He doesn't need a gold subscription, he's already played everything that's coming out over the next six months. For free.
Jonathan Ross
Microsoft should give all of us free lifetime Gold subscriptions. Someone make it happen.
Samit Sarkar
I'll take one, just so I can sell it on eBay.
Topher Cantler
I tried that once. You know, being the guy who has to pay attention to that sort of thing every week.
Jim Sterling
I really need to see if I can get my friend or my brother at the Blockbusters to steal me a subscription card.
Joe Burling
They need to be scanned into the computer which makes them hard to steal.
Jim Sterling
Well, they should ... shut up Joe!
Hamsa CTZ Aziz
Yeah, I um, took one of our cards by accident and it didn't work. Bummer. I'll just keep taking the one month cards we get until I'm forced to actually pay for the damn service.
Samit Sarkar
I think the same thing applies to Sony's PSN cards (which are apparently starting to appear at retailers, although I heard that months ago). They have to be purchased and activated to have any value.
Topher Cantler
I hate paying for XBL. Hate.
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, that was one of the big factors in my decision to wait for a PS3 when the 360 came out. I'm not naïve enough to think that Sony will keep the PSN free forever, but a man can hope, can't he?
Topher Cantler
On the contrary, I'm hoping Sony isn't stupid enough to ever start charging for it. I can't think of a dumber move for them to make.
Hamsa CTZ Aziz
$4 a month basically. I think that's a good value, it's just that I'm a cheap ass.
Topher Cantler
XBL is $8 a month, I don't know where you're getting yours. o_O
Samit Sarkar
Wait, no...I thought it was $50/year...?
Jim Sterling
XBL is worth it if you use it. I hadn't used mine in ages so I don't want to pay for it. However, where MS fucking gets you is with its fake ways of making Gold worth the cash -- delaying demos and shit. It's a pretty piss-poor way of making Gold valuable, taking away from Silver rather than adding to Gold.
Topher Cantler
Microsoft deducts $7.99 from my checking account once a month, every month. if I'm being raped, tell me now.
Which, now that I think about it, wtf. I can't believe I'm not getting a goddamn XBL subscription for free.
Samit Sarkar
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/subscriptioncards.htm
It says that a 12-month subscription card (which comes with the first month for "free") is $49.99. However, a 1-month subscription card costs $7.99. Cancel that shit and get a yearlong subscription!
Samit Sarkar
Oh, I agree. I think it'd be retarded...but you can't say it wouldn't be entirely surprising for them to go back on their word. Hell, they wouldn't even technically be breaking a promise. Sure, they've advertised the hell out of the fact that the PSN is free, but this is the same company who (in)famously said rumble was a last-gen feature, then implemented it once they settled their lawsuit with Immersion. Just sayin'.
They won't do it for a while, I think...but once they update to v2.40 and add in-game XMB and trophies, as well as the upcoming movie download store, who knows? Those are the main features separating the PSN from XBL at the moment.
Joe Burling
XBL costs $50 a year, which comes to $4.17 a month. If you buy the card in at a retail store, they give you 13 months, which comes to $3.84 a month.
I personally think it's worth it, but what makes it hard to swallow is when you go to purchase it every year. You look at $50 and think, "I could buy a game for this." They don't give you the option to just let it put $4.17 on your credit card. They SHOULD! No one would even notice $4.17 a month on their credit card, but they will notice $50.
That was my issue with the PS3 when it first came out. People claimed it was such a good deal (and it was for everything you got, such as a blu-ray player and built in wifi + free psn) but I couldn't look past the $600 price tag.
Sony is still making you pay each month, but only if you want exclusive demos. Their equivalent is called Qore.
Jim Sterling
I would be surprised if Sony wouldn't start charging for online play as soon as it felt it could get away with doing so.
Joe Burling
Sony's cash cow, Home (microtransactions), doesn't look like it will be ready anytime soon.
I think Sony will keep PSN free, but keep finding new ways to get their money back (like Qore and microtransactions).
I also think when PSN is = to XBL in terms of features, MS will be forced to drop the price.
$4.17 seems like a lot of money to spend on an online gaming service... until you look at the 10 million people paying over $10 a month for WoW.
Hamsa CTZ Aziz
Jesus Topher, cancel NOW!
But yeah, Joe said what I was going to say $50 a year or $4.17 a month if you break it down month to month.
Topher Cantler
Yeah, fuck that right in the ass. Sony needs to man up and start putting out some content, and keep their shit free. Make MS think about making Live free to keep up. Competition. Why isn't there any. Fuck this console generation. Fuck it.
Joe Burling
Any buy the XBL Gold subscription at a retail store... they give you 13 months instead of 12 for the same price.
Topher Cantler
Yeah, you want to send me fifty bucks all at once, I'd be happy to do that.
Joe Burling
For me, gaming has never been more affordable, but that's because of GameFly.
Samit Sarkar
Eh, Qore isn't quite the same as a PSN subscription, and I pretty much disregarded it completely when I heard about it because it doesn't affect me being able to play my games online for free. Here's what Wikipedia says about it:
Video on demand
Each episode includes a selecion of behind-the-scenes videos, previews, interviews and news related to PlayStation products. Videos are hosted by Veronica Belmont and are presented in 720p high definition. Broken-up into several shorter clips, each episode contains 1-2 hours of content.
Download Center
Exclusive playable demos, betas, games and add-on content is accessible through Qore's Download Center.
Yeah, sorry, I don't have time to sit around and watch one-to-two-hour episodes on stuff I can see on the internet (for free, to boot) -- especially not when the episodes are broken up by advertising. Fuck that. 13 episodes aren't worth $25/year to me.
Hamsa CTZ Aziz
... So hey Dyson, want to turn your piece about SF into something about free vs. subscription services? :D
Topher Cantler
Yeah, I know a guy who got in on the Home beta through Qore. I'm sure he's very happy with his purchase. :3
Joe Burling
I like the idea of Qore. Sony found ways to get people to spend money for things they could get free before (exclusive demos) but it still doesn't affect your ability to play online. I'd like to see MS find ways to get us to spend money on something OTHER than gaming online with your friends.
Samit Sarkar
Hah. Home and Qore are two PS3/PSN services that I couldn't care less about.
Joe Burling
I'll bet you will get an "episode" of Qore one day, Samit, and that day will be when you can only get the LittleBigPlanet demo by buying Qore that month.
Topher Cantler
You've doomed us all, Burling. I bet they'll totally do that.
Dyson
Um, sure. Why the fuck not?
As far as I'm concerned, I think that paying for an online service is bullshit, but there really isn't too much I can do about it if I want to play against my friends in a game. I know that Sony has the free online, but every damn game I've played on their free online service is run by Gamespy and doesn't offer what Live does. I don't think that Live is great, their voice chat sucks, the matchups are spotty, and I have yet still to play anyone over Live in Bomberman (stupid "Timed out" messages), but it is far more robust than what Sony currently has to offer.
Also, what the fuck is Qore?
Samit Sarkar
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/06/03/introducing-qore-taking-you-behind-the-curtain-with-playstation/
Dyson
Everything needs to explained to me in twelve words or fewer. Pictures help :)
Topher Cantler
This about sums it up.
Samit Sarkar
From the introduction entry on the PlayStation.Blog:
"...exclusive news, developer interviews, in-depth game previews and behind-the-scenes looks at PlayStation games and special access to game demos, special beta invitations, game add-ons and other downloadable game-related content."
(Yeah, I know that's more than 12 words.)
Anyway, it's $2.99 per "episode", or $24.99 for a one-year, 13-episode subscription. According to Qore's Wikipedia article, episodes are between 1 and 2 hours long, but they have unskippable ads (not always VGR stuff, either; I've seen a review of the first episode that mentioned a Burger King commercial).
So, yeah...what Topher said.
Might I add... "Qore" is a stupid-ass fucking name.
Joe Burling
Here's a pic for you...
Samit Sarkar
I...i...is that a penguin taking a shit?
Justin Villasenor (Your name is too complicated!)
I think the thing that bothered me the most about having to pay for Live was how the online function for PC games always used to be free. The fact that you need a Live subscription to access the multiplayer for games under the Games for Windows brand really bugs me.
Joe Burling
It's much more of a problem on PC. Agreed, Justin.
Steam does all that XBL does, for free and better.
Don't you love how mama penguin is all intrigued by it?
Then again, wouldn't you intrigued by projectile pooping, too? I'd at least be keeping an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get anywhere near me.
Topher Cantler
It looks more like he's been shot in the ass with a tiny plunger on a string...
Samit Sarkar
Yeah, that was the first thing that I thought I was looking at.
Brad Rice
What the fuck. Why is there a game called "Salmon Night 2" coming out?
Sorry to derail the discussion. Ignore me.
Aaaaaaand, there you go. Well, we tried to discuss the Street Fighter beta, but, as you can see, our inherent robot-ness took over and we segued into a discussion about the online services that Microsoft and Sony have made available to the gaming world (sorry, Ninty!).
So what do you folks think? should we keep doing the Destructoid Discusses feature? (Oh, we will.) But more importantly, now that you've seen a candid view of what the staff thinks of the online services available to us, what do you think?
Discuss!
Contest:
12:38 AM on 06.30.2008
| 
WHAT THE HELL?
No big loss. I can still play for free on the PC and PS3. The way it should be.
Looking forward for some more.
LINK PLEASE
also, i agree on the "$50 at once hurts, but $8 per month seems better"
The only console game I've played online is Brawl.
But where is this penguin? I'm disappointed. No editing next time.
Justin mentions the Games for Windows Live initiative, yes you do need a subscription to play games (of which there are currently 9) that support it online, but you only need a silver for that on PC. Gold only gives you multiplayer achievements, TruSkill ranking, matchmaking and the ability to play those couple of cross-platform games.
Qore could be okay as it is totally optional, as long as it offers something that isn't available on a hundred websites for free. Adverts in a paid for product are a pretty big no-no in my opinion though.
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i think the #1 thing that needs to be done with live is to HAVE MS HOST SERVERS!
for $50 a year to have access to HOSTED servers, as opposed to p2p hosting that would seal the deal for me. that 1 single feature would be worth the cost, considering you really dont get anything for gold aside from being able to play games online (hosted by other users).
hosted servers would make for much smoother gameplay all around and it would be something for the money. again, im ok with the fee, but i dont really like paying for the "priviledge" of being able to connect to some kids shitty dsl and have it lag out in 2mins of gameplay.
we already pay enough in ISP costs, we should pay MS for the right to connect to other people over the internet and use OUR bandwidth to play with them. that should be a given. host some servers for us and give us a real product for our money and i think we might all be more than willing to shoulder the cost.
damn corner users.
as for paying for XBL, although i would like it to be free, they wont make it free, and since most of my friends own the 360 and play online, i want to play with them. so i pay the 50 dollars a year
About the online stuff, I bought a gold subscription for the first time a few months ago, through buy.com and google checkout, so I paid $30 for a 13 month subscription (I'm so cheap I won't even pay $50 a year). One thing that hasn't been discussed about XBL is that if you are a household with multiple gamers (like myself) you have to buy subscriptions FOR EACH GAMERTAG! What the fuck is with that? So I activated my subscription and assumed my fiance would be able to use the Gold features too. What if you had a big family and all the kids wanted to play online? I guess my point to my rant is that Microsoft is a bunch of greedy assholes and I'm amazed people are letting them get away with it.
I probably won't renew after this year is over. I don't play enough games online to make it worth it.
Hell, I know someone who whines about it, yet pays $15 a month (or whatever it is) for WoW. Compared to that XBL is a fucking steal.
If you don't use it, then don't get it. Just don't be a cheap ass mother-fucker and whine about how "expensive" it is to those of us who are happy with it. :p
'Segwayed', rofl, Dyson, stick to podcasts :D
O_o 'Segwayed' is a word ...
its fucking excellent
minus the glitchy menus
For what it is, it is pricey. You get virtually nothing for that money. If you buy a game, you get a game. What, paying for demos and the privilege of being able to host games or connect to other people hosted games? Yes it isn't a huge sum of money but the fact is, what you get isn't worth the entrance fee. Online play should be free.
It's not being a cheap-ass mother-fucker, it's having the sense to realise when you are being taken for a ride.
@Dyson
I think you meant segued, segwayed actually isn't a real word :P