We're back this week with another Destructoid Discusses!, our featured discussion among the Destructoid editors and staff. This week, Dyson handed the reigns to me, so I decided to poll the staff on a topic that has recently been a point of contention among friends.
Back in the 16 and early 32-bit days, getting hold of a rare, mint condition game was like another trophy for your collection. Geek cred, right? But now, these days, it seems that every good game is released as either some kind of download or on a compilation disc. Or even totally remade.
Remember when Rez was the pride of your collection? It ain't crap now! Is it waste of money to invest in rare games?
Ready....Discuss!
Mike Ferry
Hell no! By no means is game collecting stupid. I am an avid game collector and I tend to frequent local swap shops to find rarities and oddities alike. It really is quite a thrill to collect a series of titles, or to find a game you haven't played in ages.
Some people collect coins, stamps, movies, baseball cards... how is video game collecting any different than any of these hobbies? To be honest, it really isn't. Just as Babe Ruth's Rookie card is a gem to find for the avid card collector, Chrono Trigger in a factory-sealed box is an equally-valued gem to the avid retro RPG collector.
Now, there are some fine lines here where simple collecting turns into obsessive compulsiveness. I buy and collect games that I plan to play or have played. I do not buy titles or doubles of titles "just to have/show." Though, I will admit that I've given much thought to purchasing various Famicom and Super Famicom games.
Anyway, to each their own. My hobby and collective vice revolves solely around games and gaming. To this very moment, I am still searching for a complete US version of Revelations: Persona... for under $80.
(Damn you, Atlus! Why can't you print more than, like, five copies of your games?!)
Alan Johnson
It's never a waste to collect something that brings you joy. It all comes down to three things:
Can I find what I want to collect?
Can I afford to buy what I want to collect?
Do I have the room to house what I collect?
If you can answer yes to these questions (and it's legal), go for it!
Jordan -Grim- Devore
How important is the condition of a game to you guys? If I see an extremely rare game for an unbeatable price, but it's beat up (like the label of cartridge being ripped, for example), I won't buy it. It's sort of a dumb rule, economically speaking, but then again I never rent game nor do I sell any of the games I've purchased, no matter how shitty they are.
Mike Ferry
Condition varies from person to person, but I'm in the same boat as you. If I'm going to spend any sort of money, I want the best my money can buy; complete and minut, if possible.
But, sometimes, that just doesn't seem to happen.
Dyson
I can't see how game collecting could be considered stupid. People collect bottle caps, don't they? Why not collect video games? Anyone who's ever seen my room can tell that I collect like a madman. I have NES cartridges falling off my night stand and seven systems hooked up to one tv alone.
Do I think that it's stupid to do so if companies keep rereleasing stuff? No. Even when Chronon Trigger comes out, I still won't be able to play it the way it was meant to be played - on the SNES. That's the main reason that I love to collect games. All games are designed to work best on the platform that they were made for, so that's the way I like to play them. I don't mind that rereleases come out, though, because then the originals drop in price :)
And as far as quality goes, as long as it works I'm happy.
Nick Chester
I don't condemn anyone for collecting games, but I'm not sure I get it. Actually, that's not the case; let me rephrase that.
As someone who, as a kid, used to collect comic books, horror memorabilia, and related toys, there's a small part of me that understands the obsessive itch that collectors seem to want to scratch. It feels good to stand back and gaze upon a well kept, sizeable collection of anything. But as an adult, I've lost the feeling. Long gone is the sizeable collection of movie posters, props, bagged comics, and "celebrity" signed items.
What do I have to show for it? Nothing, really. Good memories and good feelings, but not much else (resale value of items aside, though it was never my intent to sell my collectibles). These days I'd rather play games or talk about then then stare at some pristine boxes that I own for the sake of owning them. It's rare that I go back and play a "classic," what with so many current games already piling up unplayed. Besides, with remakes and other ways to get me hands on such titles, they're really never out of reach.
I simply don't have the space or time to focus on stock-piling shit I may never play or use. It would be "cool" to have a massive classic
collection, but I don't see the use beyond novelty.
Brad Nicholson
Exactly, Nick. I don't mind people that collect things. I used to have quite the collection of Batman comic books myself, but honestly, I have nothing to show for it. In fact, I think my collection is what kept the ladies away. Sure, having the entire Knight's End set in plastic and mounted is cool - but the females seem to be unimpressed.
That said, I used to collect my games. Other than my comics, I think my NES/SNES/GBA collections were what I was most proud of growing up. As I moved on to other consoles and had to start paying for the games myself, I found myself willing to trade in my old games for better ones. For awhile I did it at pawn shops, then I discovered Electronics Boutique and it ravaged every old game I own. I literally have zero titles for my PS1, like 8 for my original Xbox, and a smattering for the Dreamcast because of this. Do I mind? Not really. Yet, I still have a few golden oldies locked away that I can't find myself getting rid of. Secret of Mana, Earthbound, and Tecmo Secret of the Stars are still in my closet. Is this collecting? I'm not sure, but I can't find myself even selling them on Ebay.
Dyson
I used to collect comics, too, so I can understand both of your guys' points. I only stopped collecting comics because the market became stupid and the quality of comics dropped. After getting jazzed about the limited edition holo-cover with the secret card attached version of every comic on the market, your enthusiasm fades. I still read comics, though, but I just don't collect them.
That may be the difference when it comes to collecting old games. You might actually be someone who collects things in mint boxes and puts them on shelves and stares at them, but I'm the guy that buys the copy he finds -- even if it doesn't have a label and has "Mandy" written on the side -- and takes it home and plays it. In a way, I'm just buying games to play and not collect. It just so happens that I don't trade any of them in.
I like having a big library of games to look at and go through. It's fun having friends come over and play Contra on the original NES, with the original controllers. Everything about the old games and hardware just feels right when I compare them to an emulator or XBLA/PSN/VC.
Jordan -Grim- Devore
For the record, I do play all of the games I collect, it's just that I'm a little picky about how they look. Hell, if someone gave me an unopened copy of Earthbound or Mega Man X3, I'd pop that sucker open immediately and start playing.
Nick Chester
I see what you mean. But when it comes to novelty and nostalgia versus convenience, convenience wins every time. I can understand liking the feel of an original controller or the quality of an 8-bit system, but I hate clutter with a passion. Also, blowing into carts is not a fond memory, despite what some people might think. Shit was broken.
Topher Cantler
I'm with Dyson on this one. For me, I think the collector's bug bit me when I was younger, and it started with records. I could not-download this stuff on the internet, but how many people can say they have an original 45 of The Beatles'
Helter Skelter? Or an original pressing of The Ramones'
Road To Ruin? Sure they're a little scratched, and maybe the corners are kinda busted, but screw you, I can put it on a turntable and listen to it in its original state, crackles and all. I have one and you don't. Nyah nyah.
Same goes for games. I never really got with the whole "mint condition, frozen in carbonite" set, because what the hell's the fun in that? I take very good care of the games I do have, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have more than a few cartridges wrapped in plastic, but if it's not in pristine condition when I find it, who cares? It's still an original copy of the game, and that's more than the guy wih the PC emulator can say. And just like listening to original vinyl on a turntable, there's nothing like popping an old cartridge into an NES and hearing the nostalgic creak of the springs when you kachunk it down into the console.
As far as keeping everything locked away on a shelf under a magic sigil, I think that's dumb, too. I might step out my front door and get hit by a meteor tomorrow, and it would suck to die with a copy of FFVII sitting in my room unplayed just because I wanted to boost my nerd cred when other geeks came over the house. Play 'em, fuckers. That's what they're for.
Convenience, schmonvenience. There's nothing stopping you from having them on your DS in addition to having the real thing on your shelf. Did you throw away all your old CDs when the MP3 player was invented?
Nick Chester
Actually, yeah, most of my CDs are in storage or have been sold (for
pennies, since they have zero resale value). My wife asked me to rip the CDs we still have so we could toss them; I'm all for it. We're not there yet (keyword "yet"), and it'll be awhile, but physical
media is going to die. That's another conversation, though. But your comparison doesn't work, unless you have some emotional attachment to the act of pulling a CD out of case, placing it into a tray, and pressing buttons with arrows on them.
And I already addressed what's stopping me from having a DS version and another original version on my shelf: space and clutter. I own an NES, a Genesis, and a Super Nintendo and they're not even hooked up to a television. I would like to have them set up, because I get the fun and novelty of playing the real deal, it's just not necessary for me to enjoy a game.
Topher Cantler
Necessary? No. But it's fun. I agree that physical media is on its way out (probably sooner than we all think), and truth be told, I'm all for it. But doesn't the doom of the disc make it that much cooler to own these old games?
I guess I think of it with some kind of time capsule fondness. I get a kick out of people who come over my house and have never seen a working 2600 before, or an NES in its original retail box. That kind of thing is fun. It's a history lesson for my younger friends, kind of like grandpa keeping his old Chevy in the garage. If you happen to still have something cool like that, why get rid of it just because there's been better stuff since?
Also, your game library takes up half your living room, and didn't Debbey just call me a couple months ago to tell me you guys found a R.O.B. for sale? Sure you don't want to fill your house with dusty old carts, but you can't tell me it's not cool to keep at least some of that stuff around just for nostalgia's sake.
Nick Chester
I'm not denying that it's "cool" or "fun" to keep nostalgia around the
house. The R.O.B. will never be used as a gaming peripheral, and will more likely find its way on to a shelf as display. The games I have that take up half of my living room I will have no problem trading in or selling when the time comes. I don't play more than half of them anyhow, and have no intention of keeping most of them beyond this console cycle. That could change when I eventually move and have an entire room dedicated to gaming.
My point is that *I* don't consider *myself* a collector, and *I* don't generally hold on to things just to have them. But as far as arguments are concerned, my "the shit takes up space that I don't have" stance is TOTALLY better than your "I just like them" position. I win. Throw out all of your games made before 2003.
Topher
You don't win. I have a Sega CD.
Alan Johnson
For me, condition is everything. It drives me batshit if I get something that's in less than great condition, and I do everything in my power to keep in the same shape. I cringe when I see how some people are so carefree about their stuff.
Nick Chester
NIGHT TRAP.
Dyson
DOUBLE SWITCH, starring the Corey. Only for the Sega CD.
Joe Burling
Collecting "current" games just doesn't seem appealing.
I used to have an epic collection, but one day I traded the entire thing in to buy a replacement PS1 when my first one broke. I really wasn't that sad about it, though, because I didn't look at it as an actual "collection". It was more like an accumulation of games that didn't appeal to me as much as they used to (mainly because, at the time, Resident Evil steered me in a whole new gaming direction). I had some good collectors items in there, too, which leads me to my point:
It's not hard to find current video games these days. More and more copies of games are being pressed and they are getting easier to get a hold of. I remember a time when my video games came from either Toys R Us or Electronics Boutique. These days, we can get games ANYWHERE, including the internet, so if there is a current game we want, we can get it. Elusive game collecting always seems to pertain solely to hard-to-find retro games. Once games stop getting made, that's when they start becoming collectible.
Each generation gives birth to more gamers, which in turn gives birth to more copies, which is slowly chipping away at the number of those rare collectible games. Additionally, as third parties shift away from exclusives towards multiplatform, collecting seems to be even more watered down.
Now, the trophies of video game collections are those rare older titles that aren't being made anymore. Remakes just aren't the same to a true collector. This means those few rare games from our distant past will continue to grow in value over time. This especially holds true to games in good to mint condition. This is great news for people who already have a solid collection, and bad news for people who are in the market for those rare games.
Dale North
It's pretty cool getting the final word! I'm with Topher on a lot of this. Nostalgia is the key word for me. Condition doesn't matter as much, as long as I can pop in that old game that I used to love and play it one more time. The remakes don't give you that fuzzy feeling. I think that as long as your collection isn't untouchable and pointless, and is really there as a library of games you've loved in the past, it's totally worth collecting.
I thought it was interesting that this discussion didn't explore imports. A very large portion of my collection is impored games, stuff that may never come out as a re-release or on a compilation disc.
What about you? Do you collect? Do you think it's a good idea these days?
Contest:
10:17 AM on 07.27.2008
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What are you going to show the kids? Kilobytes?
Also: just because a game isn't in any visible form when you download it doesn't mean you can't collect it.
Collections are still cool to look at though, more power to ya!
I also traded in pretty much all of my classic plastic (NES, SNES, N64) for a PS2 and GTA III. Massive regret there. Hundreds of NES games, I'm sure many hard to find games, just so I could fuck hookers and beat them up for my cash back. I bought into the GTA III hype and I made a horrible decision.
One more regret that I have that I can't really say was a bad decision was I sold my complete copy of EarthBound to pay some bills. Bills were there and it was either power or a game. I think it was a good choice, but I still miss my game.
Note to anybody out there: If you have a complete (and good looking) copy of EarthBound you'd like to unload, write me.
And somewhere, one of my asshole former friends has my copy of the Marathon Trilogy.
As an owner of lessee ... Suikoden II, Revelations: Persona, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, Lunar I & II (PS1), Valkyrie Profile, Dragon Force (Saturn), Panzer Dragoon Saga ... and so on, I see the value in keeping some of the oldies around, in mint condition (though I still play them).
Granted I don't go out and look for old expensive games to spend my money on. I just hang on to the vintage ones. I think there's a difference.
Of course I always ended up regretting it, but whether that was because I genuinely wanted to play something again or because I knew I couldn't is another matter. Overall I'd rather experience as many games as possible rather than holding onto some for nostalgia and potentially missing out on something else.
As for digital copies vs. hard copies, I follow a few rules. I will not buy cartridge-based games, since their battery saves will eventually die and they cannot display in progressive scan, something very important for new HDTVs. In that case, I'm fine with buying up digital copies on VC or XBLA. Furthermore, even if the original game is available on disc like Rez, if a digital version is improved in everyway like Rez HD, then I'll buy the digital version. Otherwise, hard copies all the way.
As for condition: any hard copy I buy needs to have a) a well-kept disc, b) a non-cracked case, and c) the original manual and documentation. What's the point of buying something to keep and treasure if you get it incomplete? Furthermore, in almost every case where a game has a collector's edition, I will buy it in that form. That is the only part of my collector's mentality that I find completely insane.
It's purely for the nostalgic fuzzy factor, the physicality of those old manuals, novellas, maps and trinkets. Back before game packaging became homogenised for the kind of mass production they need these days.
Also, cocks.
I collect so that I have all the best games once all the best games are out. In closed game pools you can identify every good game and gather them all so that you have 100% of the entertainment that the system can offer you.
To me, the point of collecting is not only a hobby in itself but an extension of a more fun hobby, collecting video games.
Aside from general M.O., A few years back I started to make an effort to collect PS2 games. Something from each genre, a good representative of games from most companies that I really enjoyed. I guess in anticipation of some ultra rig that I'd have setup oneday, but also because there were so many solid titles on that system. Not that the graphics will hold up that great, even over a few years, but that was a great era of gaming that I think I'll want to comeback to on a regular basis.
However, I've sold off a lot of my carts (quite a few, actually, and the only one I regret is Kirby Super Star) simply because over time it gets harder to get them to play, and play correctly. I'd rather play Super Mario World on a SNES than a ROM or on the VC, but not when the SNES cart gets to where it will play for 10 minutes then freak out and scramble and freeze all the time.
Back closer to the topic, though, I say somewhat because, while I do collect games, I only collect games that I'll play and sell of the ones I'll never touch again. I sold off my Mario RPG cart a few years ago and have only felt a small, miniscule twinge of regret about it. At that point I was mostly keeping it around for nostalgia value, and I realized that and sold it to get some Saturn games.
Condition, though, is dependant on what the game comes with. If it's a Working Designs game (more specifically some of the Playstation games they put out) like a Lunar SSSC, I want it to be more or less complete. I want the cloth map, the hardcover booklet, the whole shebangabang. But if It's just something standard, I'll take it at a lower price for just the disc. I mean, you can't play the box, you can't play the instructions, right? I'm there for the game, not to read the book for the game. I probably wouldn't have ever played Popful Mail if I hadn't seen it for 15 bucks disc only (though it did come with the back insert of the box).
Also, I hate that physical Media is going away, I guess I just don't trust hard drives that much.
I have another SNES now but most of my best games are only ROMs on my computer.
When I was in high school there was an amazing pawn shop I passed everyday on my way home. When I saw "awesome" I mean they had tons of old video games, NES cartridges were only $4 each regardless of rarity and quality, and they had a NES hooked up to a TV so you could test any game before you bought it. So, obviously my NES collection is the one I'm most proud of, when not glitching or freezing.
Also, I know the gamecube was shit but I still own one and I have ... maybe about 15 games for it, and I don't think there is a single game for it that I want but don't have. I got all the good ones. There are only 15 good gamecube games. Probably less.
Im also a big fan of game memorabilia. I have the RE4 chainsaw controller, I have the DQ8 slime controller. I always buy a collectors edition of something, if Im going to be buying it anyway.
Lastly, Im not a big CD collector anymore, but I do like them. I just bought a limited edition print of Nine Inch Nails: "The Slip". Yes, you can download the album from the NIN website for free, BUT, the physical CD is limited to only 250,000 copies EVAR. so to know that Im one of a few people on earth that will ever own a real official physical copy of that album is awesome.
Sure, I love looking at my bookcase and seeing my collection, but with modern games it's just so easy to sell them and get some of your cash back, to either live on or put towards your next game.
Now I usually sell games to friends or eBay (fuck gamestop, those fucking cons), but I only "collect" the ones I really loved.
The point is, if you collect you love games and you want to keep them in great condition. I have 30 or so Super Nintendo games, a handful of Nes, a couple of Sega Megadrive games (Yeah I own Altered Beast, I'm awesome), Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, Playstation, Nintendo DS, Nintendo 64, Nintendo Gamecube, Nintendo Wii, Xbox, Xbox 360 and PS2 games.
The larger my collection is, the happier I will be. I place them all in a dark closet as well so they don't wear and tear + fade from the sunlight.
I even buy games for systems I don't even OWN sometimes when I find a sweet deal... like when you go to a thrift shop and they don't know what anything is actually worth.
I started doing this when, I am not shitting you, I saw a copy of Radiant Silvergun for $4 in a thrift shop once and passed it up because I didn't have a Saturn. Most fucking stupid moment of my entire life D:
At the moment, the NES games we've started to collect again are decoration, but only because our NES died. I'm trying to slowly rebuild an NES and SNES collection and get replacement systems.
I usually don't go after "rare" games, maybe only a couple of times.
I'm one of those too, but they weren't my games, they were my brother's, and it was only about five to six years ago, And he(my brother) thinks Madden '07 for the Wii is amazing, God...
To bad I don't have an SNES or anything yet because I suck and have no source of income.
I used to have a pristine copy of Xenogears. My industrious 14 year old self kept it pristine simply out of appreciation for the game and the night after night of sleepless night ignoring schoolwork to dig further in, so enraptured was i by it. I lent the game to my best friend at the time. He attempted suicide shortly thereafter and became a shut-in and i haven't seen him since. I really, really, really want to play Xenogears again, and i can't, because i don't have a spare seventy bucks to drop on it.
This is why i do not sell my games.
There's still a good few PS1 games I want, let alone GBA.