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I used to be a beliver on the Wii giving us innovative games and whatnot, but after the release of Brawl, Galaxy and Mario Kart.
I don't see any games that I'm interested in anymore unless they show off something on their press conference in a few hours
I don't see any games that I'm interested in anymore unless they show off something on their press conference in a few hours
I just don't see it.
There are millions of gamers who bought Mario Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, RE:UC, Super Paper Mario, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Metroid Prime 3, Smash Bros, Red Steel...
I'm not saying these games are good or bad, but Soccer Moms are not the ones buying these games.
There are millions of gamers who bought Mario Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, RE:UC, Super Paper Mario, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Metroid Prime 3, Smash Bros, Red Steel...
I'm not saying these games are good or bad, but Soccer Moms are not the ones buying these games.
You guys' internal e-mails are a LOT more entertaining than the ones I get. Also, the Celery Stalks at Midnight. Beware.
There isn't really anything I look forward to getting on the Wii. I would really like this to change, but so far, I don't see it happening. Fingers crossed for the press conference. maybe Ninty will actually do some revealing and less self-glorification this year.
There's a big chance you can have this discussion all over again tomorrow. Or not. It all depends on the announcements by Nintendo.
It was a very entertaining read nonetheless.
It was a very entertaining read nonetheless.
"I'm not saying these games are good or bad, but Soccer Moms are not the ones buying these games."
True that.
True that.
can't believe i read the whole thing...
my feelings are more in line with Nick, Joe, and Jimmles on this one. i think the Wii is mostly (mostly) a toy and fear for the future of game development if we all get waggle-happy and casual-friendly. and this was my favorite quote from Nick:
"I think this pretty much sums it up. I just want to play good games and I'm happy. With that said, I certainly would not be happy if I only owned a Wii."
BOOSH!
my feelings are more in line with Nick, Joe, and Jimmles on this one. i think the Wii is mostly (mostly) a toy and fear for the future of game development if we all get waggle-happy and casual-friendly. and this was my favorite quote from Nick:
"I think this pretty much sums it up. I just want to play good games and I'm happy. With that said, I certainly would not be happy if I only owned a Wii."
BOOSH!
I also would like to point out that Halo 3 is the only game to outsell Mario Galaxy on one platform (Not including WiiPlay and Wii Sports).
Call of Duty 4, GTA4, and Guitar Hero are the only multi-platform games to outsell Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, and Smach Bros.
I am not saying that 360 and PS3 are less hard core. They are more hardcore than Wii, but these are not soccer moms.
Call of Duty 4, GTA4, and Guitar Hero are the only multi-platform games to outsell Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, and Smach Bros.
I am not saying that 360 and PS3 are less hard core. They are more hardcore than Wii, but these are not soccer moms.
I was first in line on the first day for the Wii. I camped out in the freezing cold for this thing and I still think it was well worth it.
One of the things I saw a lot of in this debate was the opinion that "the people who buy a Wii vs the 360/PS3, are different gamers". I don't think that's true really, at least not for everyone. It seems to me that everyone in this debate has all three consoles, as do I, so that point doesn't hold true all the time now does it?
Sure, there are a bunch of people who bought the Wii just because of Wii Sports, but I'm fine with that. Heck, I enjoy playing Wii Sports sometimes myself. I can't imagine that the Wii is the only console I'd want to have as a gamer, and that is why I am sure, at least a good portion of Wii owners (the "new gamers" segment of them) will maybe move on to another console later.
If they decide not to, it's no real loss though. Is anyone going to be upset because mom didn't buy the Xbox 720? Would that really effect the game industry in any way at all? I dont' think so. What is important is that the game industry stays the way it has always been; for the hardcore. Remember, just because the NES is looked back upon as a family console, doesn't mean that everyone in the family was "hardcore" enough for games like Mega Man, Ninja Gaiden or Final Fantasy.
One of the things I saw a lot of in this debate was the opinion that "the people who buy a Wii vs the 360/PS3, are different gamers". I don't think that's true really, at least not for everyone. It seems to me that everyone in this debate has all three consoles, as do I, so that point doesn't hold true all the time now does it?
Sure, there are a bunch of people who bought the Wii just because of Wii Sports, but I'm fine with that. Heck, I enjoy playing Wii Sports sometimes myself. I can't imagine that the Wii is the only console I'd want to have as a gamer, and that is why I am sure, at least a good portion of Wii owners (the "new gamers" segment of them) will maybe move on to another console later.
If they decide not to, it's no real loss though. Is anyone going to be upset because mom didn't buy the Xbox 720? Would that really effect the game industry in any way at all? I dont' think so. What is important is that the game industry stays the way it has always been; for the hardcore. Remember, just because the NES is looked back upon as a family console, doesn't mean that everyone in the family was "hardcore" enough for games like Mega Man, Ninja Gaiden or Final Fantasy.
It doesn't matter what you got, it's how your going to use it. It's smart for someone to research what their going to get and judge whether they want it or not. But it's even better to take someone else's word for a game or something that it's "good" and have it be a big gamble for them, but they could be surprised by it's quality, or laugh at it's lack there of.
... Yeah I'm talking out of my ass, all I know is that when I got some of my Halo playing friends to play Carcassonne on XBLA, the phrase "put it next to that tree." was said 20 plus time, and the phrase "build my d*ck castle!" was said at least once.
wait, is this about the Wii?
well I got a Wii close to launch, and it wasn't what I hoped it to be. But I believe that with that new Motionplus accessory, Nintendo is trying to deliver on the initial expectations of "experienced" gamers (I'm not going to say the H-word) when the system was originally announced.
So apparently they do care. (Although it could be possible that they withheld the tech for 1:1 motion detection so that people would have to pay extra for what they really wanted, which would make them bastards. But I will withhold my criticism on that until I get more information on the Wii Motionplus.)
... Yeah I'm talking out of my ass, all I know is that when I got some of my Halo playing friends to play Carcassonne on XBLA, the phrase "put it next to that tree." was said 20 plus time, and the phrase "build my d*ck castle!" was said at least once.
wait, is this about the Wii?
well I got a Wii close to launch, and it wasn't what I hoped it to be. But I believe that with that new Motionplus accessory, Nintendo is trying to deliver on the initial expectations of "experienced" gamers (I'm not going to say the H-word) when the system was originally announced.
So apparently they do care. (Although it could be possible that they withheld the tech for 1:1 motion detection so that people would have to pay extra for what they really wanted, which would make them bastards. But I will withhold my criticism on that until I get more information on the Wii Motionplus.)
Never owned one but from seeing the kind of stuff that gets released, the Wii is a games console just like the 360 or PS3.
The problem is while Nintendo release solid games that have been made with care and attention, there is an absolute mass of third party publishers seeing the massive success and saying "me too" while putting buckets of shitware on the system in a hope to make some easy profit.
The problem is while Nintendo release solid games that have been made with care and attention, there is an absolute mass of third party publishers seeing the massive success and saying "me too" while putting buckets of shitware on the system in a hope to make some easy profit.
Yeah, I'm going to have to be on the Nick, Jim, and Joe side of the views as well. I love what Nintendo's done with the VC though and I think that had a lot to do with Live getting better content in the long run in order to compete, which I appreciate.
I've just never been really impressed with any of the Wii games I've seen so far (granted I haven't played Metroid 3). I just can't enjoy any of them for more than an hour. I can sit down with my 360 and lose track of time easily.
At the same time, I understand it is primarily the goal of Nintendo to make easy, accessible games that anyone can play.
That is a major problem, I think, for most of us who have "graduated" past that initial stage of "introductory gaming". We want more than waggles and funny little characters that make us giggle.
Also, I think it is important to note that the reason most of us stuck with gaming in the first place, is because it provided us with almost insurmountable tasks that we felt immensely rewarded for completing. Alot more people might not stick with gaming just based on their experience with the Wii because it's forgettable when it's over. I go back and play some old NES games and man..... they are still hard as hell.
Most Wii games are paper thin, when you fire it up... that's it, you've seen it all.
The Wii may have introduced an innovative controller to the world of gaming, but you don't feel like you've accomplished anything or that you were truly challenged when you turn the console off after a session. To me, it just feels like an upgraded model of those plug and play mini-game devices they sell at the mall on the little vendor carts, you know what I'm talkin' about.
I'm glad more people are experiencing video games than they might normally, but at the same time, they're not getting a very good representation. It's an odd pickle for sure.
I've just never been really impressed with any of the Wii games I've seen so far (granted I haven't played Metroid 3). I just can't enjoy any of them for more than an hour. I can sit down with my 360 and lose track of time easily.
At the same time, I understand it is primarily the goal of Nintendo to make easy, accessible games that anyone can play.
That is a major problem, I think, for most of us who have "graduated" past that initial stage of "introductory gaming". We want more than waggles and funny little characters that make us giggle.
Also, I think it is important to note that the reason most of us stuck with gaming in the first place, is because it provided us with almost insurmountable tasks that we felt immensely rewarded for completing. Alot more people might not stick with gaming just based on their experience with the Wii because it's forgettable when it's over. I go back and play some old NES games and man..... they are still hard as hell.
Most Wii games are paper thin, when you fire it up... that's it, you've seen it all.
The Wii may have introduced an innovative controller to the world of gaming, but you don't feel like you've accomplished anything or that you were truly challenged when you turn the console off after a session. To me, it just feels like an upgraded model of those plug and play mini-game devices they sell at the mall on the little vendor carts, you know what I'm talkin' about.
I'm glad more people are experiencing video games than they might normally, but at the same time, they're not getting a very good representation. It's an odd pickle for sure.
Oh, and Boomblox and Z&W are about as hardcore as it gets. They're not mature or "m for mature" but damn they are challenging in the later level and give planty of satisfaction.
If all you are looking for is action, is that really hardcore videogame fan or is it a niche fan?
I like variety. I love Bioshock, Final Fantasy, Half Life:OB AND I love Mario, BoomBlox, and Z&W. That is why I am a hardcore gamer.
Because I like games whether they are bright and colorful or not. Whether they are E or M, I like games. Whether puzzle or action, it's on.
Casual waggle fests like Carnival Games disturb me. Casual games like GH, DDR, WiiSports, Karaoke Revolution, etc. excite me.
If the game is good, I like it.
Mind you, I'm not saying your not aloud to dislike the Wii. It is fair, it's your opinion. But Just because I like mine doesn't mean I am a casual gamer. It doesn't mean I am disappointed.
If all you are looking for is action, is that really hardcore videogame fan or is it a niche fan?
I like variety. I love Bioshock, Final Fantasy, Half Life:OB AND I love Mario, BoomBlox, and Z&W. That is why I am a hardcore gamer.
Because I like games whether they are bright and colorful or not. Whether they are E or M, I like games. Whether puzzle or action, it's on.
Casual waggle fests like Carnival Games disturb me. Casual games like GH, DDR, WiiSports, Karaoke Revolution, etc. excite me.
If the game is good, I like it.
Mind you, I'm not saying your not aloud to dislike the Wii. It is fair, it's your opinion. But Just because I like mine doesn't mean I am a casual gamer. It doesn't mean I am disappointed.
@ stevenjazz
No no, I completely understand that there are some games that do make good use of the Wii's capabilities and I owe it to myself as a gamer to play as many of those as possible. I myself, hate waggle-fests, they frighten me.
I think the major problem I face when I think about owning a Wii though, is the lack of 3rd party support. I think it bothers me that it seems like Nintendo doesn't care that much to obtain a lot of quality games from other developers and just sort of rests on their laurels. I could be wrong, maybe they are trying, I dunno.
I just feel like there's a lot of potential there and eventually the Wii might get phased out. If companies start releasing motion sensing controls for the 360 and PS3, I think Nintendo will have to do a lot more to innovate and persuade 3rd party developers to create better content than they have been. You can't rely on a fickle casual fanbase forever.
Anyway, it doesn't mean the Wii is terrible or doesn't have any good games, I just think it will take more than what Nintendo is giving at this point in time.
No no, I completely understand that there are some games that do make good use of the Wii's capabilities and I owe it to myself as a gamer to play as many of those as possible. I myself, hate waggle-fests, they frighten me.
I think the major problem I face when I think about owning a Wii though, is the lack of 3rd party support. I think it bothers me that it seems like Nintendo doesn't care that much to obtain a lot of quality games from other developers and just sort of rests on their laurels. I could be wrong, maybe they are trying, I dunno.
I just feel like there's a lot of potential there and eventually the Wii might get phased out. If companies start releasing motion sensing controls for the 360 and PS3, I think Nintendo will have to do a lot more to innovate and persuade 3rd party developers to create better content than they have been. You can't rely on a fickle casual fanbase forever.
Anyway, it doesn't mean the Wii is terrible or doesn't have any good games, I just think it will take more than what Nintendo is giving at this point in time.
I'm not too crazy about the Wii to be honest
I mean I own one, I like the Virtual Console and yeah Nintendo's games are usually quality as always, but most of the rest is shit and there's absolutly no excuse for the graphics
it's almost like the same situation with the Gamecube where there were few games PERIOD outside of Nintendo except the Wii has few QUALITY games outside of Nintendo
but hey if you like the Wii that's fine, I'm not gonna try to change your mind or argue with you endlessly, to each his own
I mean I own one, I like the Virtual Console and yeah Nintendo's games are usually quality as always, but most of the rest is shit and there's absolutly no excuse for the graphics
it's almost like the same situation with the Gamecube where there were few games PERIOD outside of Nintendo except the Wii has few QUALITY games outside of Nintendo
but hey if you like the Wii that's fine, I'm not gonna try to change your mind or argue with you endlessly, to each his own
"it's almost like the same situation with the Gamecube where there were few games PERIOD outside of Nintendo whereas the Wii has few QUALITY games outside of Nintendo "
uh fix'd
uh fix'd
what is better? wii/xbox360/ps3
what is better? windows/linux/osx
sex with... yourself/someone/everyone
stop thinking single... start thinking multiple = bigger chance of having some sort of pleasure!
what is better? windows/linux/osx
sex with... yourself/someone/everyone
stop thinking single... start thinking multiple = bigger chance of having some sort of pleasure!
Its not that I dont enjoy the mini game collection that is the wiis back catalogue (excepting 5 or so nintendo franchices). It’s just that I refuse to pay for mini games of a quality equal to most of the free ones on the internet. And to be honest, even the good games in the Nintendo stable are getting stale. I know how Zelda goes now, Brawl looks incredibly like brawl and Mario cart hasn’t got any better.
So yeah, I think people are stupid for buying a collection of what should be free mini games and the near carbon copies of Nintendo franchises from previous generations then mouthing off about the innovative motion controller, while going to the attic to dig out their old gamecube ones.
The wii is a novlety. Its the gamecube with gamecube quality games, 10x more shovelware and a novelty motion stick stuck on.
So yeah, I think people are stupid for buying a collection of what should be free mini games and the near carbon copies of Nintendo franchises from previous generations then mouthing off about the innovative motion controller, while going to the attic to dig out their old gamecube ones.
The wii is a novlety. Its the gamecube with gamecube quality games, 10x more shovelware and a novelty motion stick stuck on.
I'm really not sure what to think. I want to say that the Wii isn't a novelty item, but then I think of the last time I've actually played it. Heck, a PS3 that I borrowed solely for MGS4 has seen more action over the last 4 days than the Wii that I own has over the last 4 months. (OMGWTFBBQ MGS4 IS AWESOME!!!)
Nintendo's systems are definitely responsible for most of the memorable moments in my personal gaming history. I grew up playing with power! Thing is when I think of games I want to get to play on my Wii, I think mostly of Gamecube games. I keep hoping that all the spooging over waggle will settle down and we'll start to see more Wii games with substance, but for the most part I'm still seeing just more party games and PS2 ports.
Mind you, one PS2 port I'd love to see would be the MGS Essential Collection. All would be forgiven if they brought that to the Wii. ^_^
Nintendo's systems are definitely responsible for most of the memorable moments in my personal gaming history. I grew up playing with power! Thing is when I think of games I want to get to play on my Wii, I think mostly of Gamecube games. I keep hoping that all the spooging over waggle will settle down and we'll start to see more Wii games with substance, but for the most part I'm still seeing just more party games and PS2 ports.
Mind you, one PS2 port I'd love to see would be the MGS Essential Collection. All would be forgiven if they brought that to the Wii. ^_^
I love my Wii. But since getting my 360 a few weeks ago, I really haven't touched it. I have games I need to play through (No More Heroes, Boom Blox, Z&W), and I do enjoy the games I own...I've just been in the mood for more mature games recently (been playing A LOT of Dead Rising).
I don't think the system is a novelty, but Nintendo does need to step it up a bit and get some more AAA titles out there. At least enough to drown out the shovelware being released every week. We've got Mad World and Fatal Frame 4 on the horizon...but we need more.
Yes, I know the two I mentioned aren't 1st-party games. But they are the ones I'm really looking forward to (Ghostbusters as well, but I may pick that up for my 360).
I don't think the system is a novelty, but Nintendo does need to step it up a bit and get some more AAA titles out there. At least enough to drown out the shovelware being released every week. We've got Mad World and Fatal Frame 4 on the horizon...but we need more.
Yes, I know the two I mentioned aren't 1st-party games. But they are the ones I'm really looking forward to (Ghostbusters as well, but I may pick that up for my 360).
Wow, so many differing opinions. And did someone compare the Wii to the NES? Holy balls! Not sure if I buy it, but props for originality.
The motion controls that really killed it for me. I don't want it, in any form, touching my games. I have yet to see a single title convince me otherwise. Not one. I'm waiting, but so far I'm not seeing it. It's silly and unnecessary except with mini games which are only fun with a friend for about 10 minutes in my experience.
The motion controls that really killed it for me. I don't want it, in any form, touching my games. I have yet to see a single title convince me otherwise. Not one. I'm waiting, but so far I'm not seeing it. It's silly and unnecessary except with mini games which are only fun with a friend for about 10 minutes in my experience.
Interesting read.
I own 2 consoles from the current generation - Wii and DS. The DS is the one console to rule them all. I chose the Wii as it represented more innovative thinking than the 360 or PS3. I have seen some innovation on the system but now I see it as more of an old-school system and, as a retro gamer, that's fine with me. It has a better 2D fighter and shmup library than either of the other systems and those are my favorite genres. I sometimes check out the PS3 and 360 sections in the game store and everything seems very generic. I see far too many drably-colored FPS/3rd person shooters or ridiculously bloody action games; both genres far too often look realistic. If I wanted realism, I'd go outside. I want interesting art design and creative game design; I want hand-crafted high res 2D; I want colors. None of these are present on the 360 or PS3. In other words, I agree with Mr. Holmes.
I'm going to shut up now and go play some Blast Works.
I own 2 consoles from the current generation - Wii and DS. The DS is the one console to rule them all. I chose the Wii as it represented more innovative thinking than the 360 or PS3. I have seen some innovation on the system but now I see it as more of an old-school system and, as a retro gamer, that's fine with me. It has a better 2D fighter and shmup library than either of the other systems and those are my favorite genres. I sometimes check out the PS3 and 360 sections in the game store and everything seems very generic. I see far too many drably-colored FPS/3rd person shooters or ridiculously bloody action games; both genres far too often look realistic. If I wanted realism, I'd go outside. I want interesting art design and creative game design; I want hand-crafted high res 2D; I want colors. None of these are present on the 360 or PS3. In other words, I agree with Mr. Holmes.
I'm going to shut up now and go play some Blast Works.
Things that make me happy:
Metal Gear Solid 4 and Ratchet and Clank on the PS3 (Uncharted, too... but I miss you Jak and Daxter :( )
Bioshock, Dead Rising, and Oblivion on the 360... oh and *ahem* Naruto: Rise of a Ninja...
Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, and a bunch of other stuff on the Wii
Generally, this whole generation is awesome and is shaping up to continue with the awesomeness. :)
Oh, and I want more Memory Card Moments... that would be awesome, too.
Metal Gear Solid 4 and Ratchet and Clank on the PS3 (Uncharted, too... but I miss you Jak and Daxter :( )
Bioshock, Dead Rising, and Oblivion on the 360... oh and *ahem* Naruto: Rise of a Ninja...
Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, and a bunch of other stuff on the Wii
Generally, this whole generation is awesome and is shaping up to continue with the awesomeness. :)
Oh, and I want more Memory Card Moments... that would be awesome, too.
I think it's to say that some kind of killer app(s) will emerge today at E3. When has Nintendo ever screwed up an E3 press conference, at least in the last few years? And even hough Nintendo often seems oblivious to the desires of hardcore gamers (storage space), I think they realize that they need something incredible on Wii this year to counter all the competition's high profile games.
Gamers discussing if the Wii is a novelty item is pointless. Ultimately, everyone is going to be in agreement that "a good game on any console is a good game and worth having".
A better discussion would be to ask "non-gamers" that own the console if they believe it was a novelty purchase.
A better discussion would be to ask "non-gamers" that own the console if they believe it was a novelty purchase.
HOLY SHIT I READ BUNNICULA HE LIKES SUCKS THE FUCKING JUICE OUT OF CARROTS AND MAKES THEM WHITE OR SUMTHIN!!!
Is the wii a novelty item?
Can I house river city ransom, metal slug and gunstar heroes on it simultaneously?
GOOD DAY SIR, POINT MR PERFECT.
Can I house river city ransom, metal slug and gunstar heroes on it simultaneously?
GOOD DAY SIR, POINT MR PERFECT.
That was an awesome "Destructoid Discusses".
I don't even feel like getting involved in discussions about the Wii anymore. Their press conference today will reveal a lot about the direction their heading, and that is when I will have my final opinion about the console and Nintendo as a whole. Today is a big day for Nintendo, and it can go one way or the other.
I don't even feel like getting involved in discussions about the Wii anymore. Their press conference today will reveal a lot about the direction their heading, and that is when I will have my final opinion about the console and Nintendo as a whole. Today is a big day for Nintendo, and it can go one way or the other.
I honestly could care less what the casual market buys, since I don't play those games. However, I'm more concerned that hardcore gamers (including me) aren't buying as many Wii games, especially after Jonathon listed a bunch that I missed. On the whole though, I think I'm increasingly drawn to the well-polished adventures on 360, and I wish Nintendo would put more effort into those, since they are the ones that seem to be advancing the medium more so than forced waggle controls. I really do wish more developers would take greater care in the games they create, since the main reason I pull out my Wii is at parties for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and that has more to do with the fact that we pulled out Melee at every party for years.
I didn't think Nick would start a flame war like that! That was quite intense.
Personally I worry about what hardcore gamers do with their wii and what games they buy for it. However, I like playing on my wii and there are some great games on it and therefore I don't see it as a novelty item.
Personally I worry about what hardcore gamers do with their wii and what games they buy for it. However, I like playing on my wii and there are some great games on it and therefore I don't see it as a novelty item.
I've been gaming since like 87' and I've never owned two current gen consoles at the same time...until now. I've had the Wii since launch and blown through all the great games but lately I haven't seen anything to look forward to. We already got the new Zelda, Metroid, Mario (and Mario Galaxy/Sports/Party/Kart/Paper). Also, i can only count the number of great 3rd party games one hand. And honestly, with the exception of Metroid and Boom Blox, I really could do without the inclusion of the sub par motion controls. And seriously, can we do away with all the crappy PS2 ports?! So, yeah I broke down and got myself a 360. I had more fun playing XBLA demos than I've had playing my Wii for months. I think that speaks volumes about the situation. I'm gonna keep the little white guy around for Homebrew (the homebrew channel + emulators=awesome) and perhaps the new animal crossing but its future is bleak. I hope nintendo will prove me wrong but it seems like they found their new niche for a long time to come...
Bottom line is sales: You mentioned it right there how Wii hardware sales are still much more strongers and the software sales are not there.
Yes millions own the "hardcore" Nintendo games but thats only part of the billions who own the hardware and maybe wii play or carnival games and thats it. So soccer moms ARE buying the wii and the sales numbers back that up.
Yes millions own the "hardcore" Nintendo games but thats only part of the billions who own the hardware and maybe wii play or carnival games and thats it. So soccer moms ARE buying the wii and the sales numbers back that up.
by the way, if I could just mention, since you guys were talking a lot about a "hardcore" game on the wii...
You have seen the madworld trailer, right? It seems Platinum games has decided to put our little thought experiment to the test, with one of the most gloriously violent games I have ever seen. Stylized, to be sure, but really violent. Also, Manhunt 2 was pretty gruesome. Any thoughts on those 2?
You have seen the madworld trailer, right? It seems Platinum games has decided to put our little thought experiment to the test, with one of the most gloriously violent games I have ever seen. Stylized, to be sure, but really violent. Also, Manhunt 2 was pretty gruesome. Any thoughts on those 2?
I'm going to have to agree with Chad. I don't play my Wii as much as I play my 360 (which is in part to the fact that I got the 360 two years into the lifecycle and had plenty of games), but there is so many generic games on the 360. The Wii has the same generic crap, but it's all in brighter colors.
I mean, I don't even like FPSs. And I don't like really competitive games. Where does that place me?
I mean, I don't even like FPSs. And I don't like really competitive games. Where does that place me?
I think what Steel squirrel mentioned was a pretty good observation that a lot of people miss. Old NES games (and the like) are NOT really casual. The majority of them are hard as fuck. The only difference between those games and the "hardcore" games of today isn't challenge, it's complexity. The "casual" games that are are so huge on the Wii today dial that complexity back (which is inviting to non-gamers) but lack the challenge which is ultimately why it feels like a shallow experience and people get bored of it.
THIS is what ultimately turns something into a novelty. Will the Wii's sales one day just drop significantly when people tire of it? Probably not, as there are a lot of people who still haven't bought one and so the experience will be new to them and their will always be the hardcore Nintendo fans to keep up the foundation. But will a significant number of those non-gamers stick with video games and want to upgrade the experience? I kind of doubt it since it's usually the challenge that makes you stick around (Achievements/Trophies are an excellent example of this in the short term). I really think most of these people are ultimately going to forget about the experience in general since they just want fluff and there's nothing really wrong with that, but it totally makes it a novelty.
THIS is what ultimately turns something into a novelty. Will the Wii's sales one day just drop significantly when people tire of it? Probably not, as there are a lot of people who still haven't bought one and so the experience will be new to them and their will always be the hardcore Nintendo fans to keep up the foundation. But will a significant number of those non-gamers stick with video games and want to upgrade the experience? I kind of doubt it since it's usually the challenge that makes you stick around (Achievements/Trophies are an excellent example of this in the short term). I really think most of these people are ultimately going to forget about the experience in general since they just want fluff and there's nothing really wrong with that, but it totally makes it a novelty.
Bunnicula wins!
There was a great point about how everyone had a NES, but not all these people moved on. I see a lot of the same thing for the Wii. Friends who haven't gamed since childhood see this and aren't scared away by way too many freakin buttons. Sure one friend buys crap games and barely knows how to operate the Wii settings, but there's others who are infatuated with the VC, and others who really appreciate No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki. It takes all types to keep the industry moving. I appreciate the other consoles and what they offer, and really resent it when the Wii is talked down simply because it offers a different type of experience. I'll take the colorful joy of Mario Galaxy on my inferior machine over any FPS with 1080p and 5 million shades of brown.
There was a great point about how everyone had a NES, but not all these people moved on. I see a lot of the same thing for the Wii. Friends who haven't gamed since childhood see this and aren't scared away by way too many freakin buttons. Sure one friend buys crap games and barely knows how to operate the Wii settings, but there's others who are infatuated with the VC, and others who really appreciate No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki. It takes all types to keep the industry moving. I appreciate the other consoles and what they offer, and really resent it when the Wii is talked down simply because it offers a different type of experience. I'll take the colorful joy of Mario Galaxy on my inferior machine over any FPS with 1080p and 5 million shades of brown.
I'd like Shells and Cheese more if the cheese powder didn't get caught in the shells so that when you're eating it, every once in a while, you'll eat a VERY CHEESY shell. Mac and Cheese FTW.
The Wii is very much my new Gamecube. Brawl is out NMH is out, and Galaxy is out. I can count on one hand the number of games left that I care about: Mad World, Deadly Creatures, and that Vanillaware game about Ninjas or something. What else is there? My library has a grand total of 3 games for it. My PS3 library is only slightly larger, but there's so much more on the way. My 360 library is huge and still growing. I have absolutely no interest in motion-sensitive controls, so to me the system is an underpower current-gen system with the gimmick of playing millions of minigames.
Other people love it, and that's all well and good, but I really regret buying the system.
Other people love it, and that's all well and good, but I really regret buying the system.
Great discussion! Very lively and fair for the most part.
Personally, my position on the Wii has reversed since it's inception. I was initially behind the innovative ideas and control scheme, and I knew Nintendo would deliver the first-party goods.
At first, the titles were about half and half. Half interesting games or "no-brainers" like Zelda or Mario and half, well, Red Steel and crap party games. I loved the Virtual Console and spent more time on there than I ever did playing disc-based titles. I felt satisfied with my purchase and support of the Wii. I wasn't "blown away" but things were good.
Time passed, and those same shelves were beginning to change. Now, I would look across shelf after shelf of horrible shovelware and titles I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, I became more and more upset with my decision. Even Nintendo's first party games ('cept Smash and Kart, mind you) were beginning to stink. The VC releases were less and less interesting. I kept feeling like Nintendo was holding out on me.
Stepping back to a parallel, about a year after the Wii launch I bought a High Def TV and an Xbox 360. As time passed, as the titles for the Wii became less interesting and more frustrating, I spent more and more time with my 360. I would play XBLA games and say, "Why couldn't the VC be more like this?" Soon, I had a huge stack of 360 titles. I was genuinely enjoying these games that I knew were made with players like me in mind. I felt... well, loved and appreciated. I felt like I was getting what I wanted when a feature I never thought I'd use suddenly became useful and awesome. With the Wii, I kept wishing, but nothing was being delivered.
I knew then as I know now that 3rd parties are partially to blame. There were great, original titles like No More Heroes, but things like Carnival Games and Big Beach Sports and PETZEZ are all I see now.
The break came when River City Ransom came out on the VC. I booted up the Wii for the first time in a long while and literally had to clean the system. A thick layer of dust had formed on it, and I hadn't even realized how long it had been there. The torch was passed. I was no longer a supporter of the Wii. It was 360 all the way.
It made me sad, though. I really wanted to be behind this "great and innovative" system. But, much like Fredo and Michael, it had broken my heart, and I had to have it shot out on a boat on the lake. Wait, wat...?
Anyway, Wii Ware has breathed some life into the ol' white box but frankly I still feel a little sadness when I think about what could have been. The Wii still has a few years left to go before it's replaced by whatever Nintendo cooks up next. My hope is that between now and then, Nintendo and our 3rd party shovelers get their acts together and really make this thing worth owning. Otherwise, there's a spot next to the N64 in my closet just waiting for the day.....
Personally, my position on the Wii has reversed since it's inception. I was initially behind the innovative ideas and control scheme, and I knew Nintendo would deliver the first-party goods.
At first, the titles were about half and half. Half interesting games or "no-brainers" like Zelda or Mario and half, well, Red Steel and crap party games. I loved the Virtual Console and spent more time on there than I ever did playing disc-based titles. I felt satisfied with my purchase and support of the Wii. I wasn't "blown away" but things were good.
Time passed, and those same shelves were beginning to change. Now, I would look across shelf after shelf of horrible shovelware and titles I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, I became more and more upset with my decision. Even Nintendo's first party games ('cept Smash and Kart, mind you) were beginning to stink. The VC releases were less and less interesting. I kept feeling like Nintendo was holding out on me.
Stepping back to a parallel, about a year after the Wii launch I bought a High Def TV and an Xbox 360. As time passed, as the titles for the Wii became less interesting and more frustrating, I spent more and more time with my 360. I would play XBLA games and say, "Why couldn't the VC be more like this?" Soon, I had a huge stack of 360 titles. I was genuinely enjoying these games that I knew were made with players like me in mind. I felt... well, loved and appreciated. I felt like I was getting what I wanted when a feature I never thought I'd use suddenly became useful and awesome. With the Wii, I kept wishing, but nothing was being delivered.
I knew then as I know now that 3rd parties are partially to blame. There were great, original titles like No More Heroes, but things like Carnival Games and Big Beach Sports and PETZEZ are all I see now.
The break came when River City Ransom came out on the VC. I booted up the Wii for the first time in a long while and literally had to clean the system. A thick layer of dust had formed on it, and I hadn't even realized how long it had been there. The torch was passed. I was no longer a supporter of the Wii. It was 360 all the way.
It made me sad, though. I really wanted to be behind this "great and innovative" system. But, much like Fredo and Michael, it had broken my heart, and I had to have it shot out on a boat on the lake. Wait, wat...?
Anyway, Wii Ware has breathed some life into the ol' white box but frankly I still feel a little sadness when I think about what could have been. The Wii still has a few years left to go before it's replaced by whatever Nintendo cooks up next. My hope is that between now and then, Nintendo and our 3rd party shovelers get their acts together and really make this thing worth owning. Otherwise, there's a spot next to the N64 in my closet just waiting for the day.....
Hey, this piece is like reading the comments thread of any Wii article in a parallel universe where all the posters are intelligent and write well!
P.S. MAC AND CHEESE FTW!
P.S. MAC AND CHEESE FTW!
wow guys, that was an extremely entertaining romp. at first i was like "oh no..." but then i was like "oh yes!" kudos go out to holmes and concelmo though mainly for mostly having my opinion.
i really dont think the wii is bringing all the gloom and doom "hardcore" gamers are predicting. in essence, the wii is just the changing of the guard, only with a twist though. first it was the nes, then the snes, playstation, playstation 2, and now the wii. none of those consoles were "hardcore," they just had more hardcore games. the only hardcore consoles id say ever existed were the master system, pc engine, neo geo, saturn, and dreamcast. what happened to all of those systems? they horribly undersold, and i dont think a hardcore console could do anything but. hardcore gamers still exist, but with gaming becoming more mainstream, we have a wider gap in casual and hardcore gamers, and in my opinion we now have what id like to call a "mainstream gamer." the guys that buy 360/ps3s for sports games, racing games, and a couple of fps games. thats by no means hardcore, but its more effort than a "casual" gamer. the idea that the 360 or ps3 are hardcore consoles is mostly laughable and due to the industries growth, i dont believe theres room for such a thing anymore.
you guys are right, i dont want halos, call of dutys, gears of wars and the likes on the wii. i wouldnt want to play traditional maddens, nba2ks, or fifas on the system either. what im predicting is that the wii is going to be the oddest console in history due to its library being extremely hardcore, and extremely casual. those odd quirky rpgs, 2d fighting games, and overall wth japanese games are probably all coming to the wii once the ps2 finally dies out. those games my friends are the most hardcore of them all in my eyes. the only games more hardcore than that are on pcs, not these watered down fps/rts games we have now.
what they need to do is release the next xbox with a mouse and keyboard and make it the console for the best non upgradeable living room pc experience. the next playstation should have the most mainstream experience with a good selection of epic rpgs and story telling games, what sony has always had a knack for providing on their consoles. and nintendo needs to marry their broad appeal with sega's arcade fervor and make the next wii the home to arcade ports AND mini games. thats the perfect conclusion folks.
i really dont think the wii is bringing all the gloom and doom "hardcore" gamers are predicting. in essence, the wii is just the changing of the guard, only with a twist though. first it was the nes, then the snes, playstation, playstation 2, and now the wii. none of those consoles were "hardcore," they just had more hardcore games. the only hardcore consoles id say ever existed were the master system, pc engine, neo geo, saturn, and dreamcast. what happened to all of those systems? they horribly undersold, and i dont think a hardcore console could do anything but. hardcore gamers still exist, but with gaming becoming more mainstream, we have a wider gap in casual and hardcore gamers, and in my opinion we now have what id like to call a "mainstream gamer." the guys that buy 360/ps3s for sports games, racing games, and a couple of fps games. thats by no means hardcore, but its more effort than a "casual" gamer. the idea that the 360 or ps3 are hardcore consoles is mostly laughable and due to the industries growth, i dont believe theres room for such a thing anymore.
you guys are right, i dont want halos, call of dutys, gears of wars and the likes on the wii. i wouldnt want to play traditional maddens, nba2ks, or fifas on the system either. what im predicting is that the wii is going to be the oddest console in history due to its library being extremely hardcore, and extremely casual. those odd quirky rpgs, 2d fighting games, and overall wth japanese games are probably all coming to the wii once the ps2 finally dies out. those games my friends are the most hardcore of them all in my eyes. the only games more hardcore than that are on pcs, not these watered down fps/rts games we have now.
what they need to do is release the next xbox with a mouse and keyboard and make it the console for the best non upgradeable living room pc experience. the next playstation should have the most mainstream experience with a good selection of epic rpgs and story telling games, what sony has always had a knack for providing on their consoles. and nintendo needs to marry their broad appeal with sega's arcade fervor and make the next wii the home to arcade ports AND mini games. thats the perfect conclusion folks.
I don't think it's a novelty, but after Ninty's conference, it looks like they're treating it like one. :(
I can't believe the game I'm most excited about is Animal crossing. They didn't even [i]mention[i/] some of the games I wanted to see. My 360 may be seeing more time.
I can't believe the game I'm most excited about is Animal crossing. They didn't even [i]mention[i/] some of the games I wanted to see. My 360 may be seeing more time.
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