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People often forget that games are supposed to be fun first and foremost. And that a lot of middle class games nail this concept perfectly. I hope they never go away.
Good read, and well written. Also, I second giving Singularity a try. If you like FPS's more in line with Half-Life and Bioshock you will not be disappointed. Is it as good, worse, or better than some of the standards? Do you have to filter your opinion of everything you've played through a different game? That's up to you. Is it worth a look? Undoubtably.
I live off of middle-of-the-road titles like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Singularity, Blazblue, Enslaved, Midnight Club, Darksiders, Bayonetta. All that good stuff. You know. All those unhyped, but still perfectly functional and enjoyable titles. Sometimes, I love 'em more than the AAA titles. I like Blazblue more than anything Capcom does. Singularity more than I like Halo: Reach. Bayonetta more than Devil May Cry. Midnight Club more than Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit.
I need something to tide me over between AAA releases, and I don't usually replay big-name RPGs, either, so merely having long AAA titles isn't enough.
Long live the middle!
I need something to tide me over between AAA releases, and I don't usually replay big-name RPGs, either, so merely having long AAA titles isn't enough.
Long live the middle!
Says the only living Dynasty Warriors megafan.
Seriously, I totally agree. $30 is a great pricepoint for so many games that choose to ignore it.
Seriously, I totally agree. $30 is a great pricepoint for so many games that choose to ignore it.
Im really liking Majin and the forsaken kingdom right now and the only reason I know about it is because of your review. I think with middle class games you gotta enjoy what they are and not what they could be. But that's a thin line to cross especially when you review games in general.
Indeed. X men origins wolverine was so awesome, it made the movie look crappier! In fact, ill be playing that game right now!
Also, is batman arkham asylum a so called "middle-class" game?
Also, is batman arkham asylum a so called "middle-class" game?
I'd have said Demon's Souls was a middle-shelf game. It wasn't the deepest or longest or the prettiest, but it was gripping like nothing else. Or how about Deadly Premonition?
What I think happened is the middle-tier mostly moved to portables where you don't have to throw massive effort into graphics just to avoid looking like a turd compared to all of your competition.
What I think happened is the middle-tier mostly moved to portables where you don't have to throw massive effort into graphics just to avoid looking like a turd compared to all of your competition.
The variable price model should make sense, especially considering Gabe Newell's recent revelation that a 75% price cut on a title offered through Steam yielded a massive increase in profit. More people tend to take chances on a purchase when there's a cheaper price attached.
Two Worlds 2, Sacred 2... I think both those game fall comfortably under the title "middle class" and yet both were very enjoyable games.
I think my expectations were pretty much in line with the budgets though. If 2W2 had been a bigger budget game I might have screamed a lot louder about the lack of an option for a female character and a fix for that stupid final boss battle where your 100% fire resistant potions don't work... at all.
Gaming is huge... there's room for a lot of different games in the market at this time... and I guess we should be thankful for that.
Excellent point about price though... middle class games should come with a middle class price. Personally I don't mind paying full price, but I suspect that sales would indeed be more brisk at a lower price point. I also like the PSN option for some games... and think that profits might be higher for the devs/publishers if they did away with the retail costs. I might have bought Enslaved on PSN as a digital download, but when buying a "full" retail release, other games are on my radar. Enslaved would be perfect for one of those "I'm bored" evenings where there is the instant gratification of downloading a larger game (larger than most PSN games) and jumping into the game right away.
I think my expectations were pretty much in line with the budgets though. If 2W2 had been a bigger budget game I might have screamed a lot louder about the lack of an option for a female character and a fix for that stupid final boss battle where your 100% fire resistant potions don't work... at all.
Gaming is huge... there's room for a lot of different games in the market at this time... and I guess we should be thankful for that.
Excellent point about price though... middle class games should come with a middle class price. Personally I don't mind paying full price, but I suspect that sales would indeed be more brisk at a lower price point. I also like the PSN option for some games... and think that profits might be higher for the devs/publishers if they did away with the retail costs. I might have bought Enslaved on PSN as a digital download, but when buying a "full" retail release, other games are on my radar. Enslaved would be perfect for one of those "I'm bored" evenings where there is the instant gratification of downloading a larger game (larger than most PSN games) and jumping into the game right away.
I just looked at my game purchases over the past 2 years and I have to agree with him. It consists almost entirely of AAA games or indie titles. Sadly I rarely purchase new IP on day one either. Too much comes out too fast for me to drop $60.00 on something without a reccomendation from a friend.
Well you have some games like COD that pretend to be Top Shelf when they are really Middle Shelf games. I mean if it only takes you a year to develop a game how much more can you actually be doing beyond tossing in some new textures? Activision could take a shit in a box slap the word COD on it and it would sell bazillions. With that kind of conditioning upon their audience what motivation do they have to actually improve the game? When it's released everyone will bitch about it and then still by the next one. Not me though.
One of my favorite games this generation was Calling for the Wii, despite the fact that it was pretty much panned. I'd call that a middle class game, even though most would say it's lower class.
Majin and Enslaved are my favorite games of 2010. I've always loved the solidly B-tiered games, or whatever you want to call them.
I love middle of the road games. Sometimes I discover things I like playing more than the average AAA title.
Darksiders, Enslaved (which I'm playing now and loving), BlazBlue, and others. They're all great games with more innovation and newer ideas than some of the bigger sequel-plagued franchises out there.
Sadly even though Singularity deserves to be included on my list, I couldn't bring myself to enjoy it. I don't know why I didn't like it. Everything about it said I should have liked it. Oh well, c'est la vie.
I'm more likely to take a chance on a new IP or game with less hype if the price is $35 or $40. Lowering prices seems to be a good idea.
Darksiders, Enslaved (which I'm playing now and loving), BlazBlue, and others. They're all great games with more innovation and newer ideas than some of the bigger sequel-plagued franchises out there.
Sadly even though Singularity deserves to be included on my list, I couldn't bring myself to enjoy it. I don't know why I didn't like it. Everything about it said I should have liked it. Oh well, c'est la vie.
I'm more likely to take a chance on a new IP or game with less hype if the price is $35 or $40. Lowering prices seems to be a good idea.
And Gears of War is Triple A? I guess by some people's standards, certainly not my own.
I love a lot of middle class games, and some of them I like a lot more than the triple A titles.
I love a lot of middle class games, and some of them I like a lot more than the triple A titles.
Really, that's the main problem the video game business has nowadays - new franchises (without unlimited marketing budget) sell like crap. Really creative titles are either niche indie-products, or they lose their developers massive amounts of money.
But really, the main problem most of these "middle class" games have is their focus on graphics over gameplay - yeah, a game with shitty, ripped-off gameplay will flop, I don't care how good it looks or how good the story is - see: Army of Two, Kane & Lynch, the new Medal of Honor, racing games like Pure or Nail'd. I'd much rather take a game with sub-par graphics but innovative gameplay. These are the games that have a chance to become sleeper-hits. I think what I'm saying essentially is this: "middle class"-developers should try to be more like Indie-devs.
But really, the main problem most of these "middle class" games have is their focus on graphics over gameplay - yeah, a game with shitty, ripped-off gameplay will flop, I don't care how good it looks or how good the story is - see: Army of Two, Kane & Lynch, the new Medal of Honor, racing games like Pure or Nail'd. I'd much rather take a game with sub-par graphics but innovative gameplay. These are the games that have a chance to become sleeper-hits. I think what I'm saying essentially is this: "middle class"-developers should try to be more like Indie-devs.
Very interesting. I see where Cliff is coming from, and I appreciate you taking the time to expand the idea.
@janklogs
Agreed, Cliff is annoying, trying to get attention by pulling dumbass oneliners.
Subjectivity be praised, go away Cliff.
Agreed, Cliff is annoying, trying to get attention by pulling dumbass oneliners.
Subjectivity be praised, go away Cliff.
There are plenty of middle-class games, you just need to get some of your jackass colleagues (by colleagues I mean idiots like IGN) to stop telling everyone (by everyone I mean idiots who can't think for themselves) not to by those games because they suck.
Sorry guys but I'd argue NIS and Koei are niche. When they get a million seller in the US, it's a good day.
Middle class is a good majority of Capcom titles. The ones that sell about 800,000 to 1.5 million. They have some Niche stuff and they have some big name AAA titles, but for the majority it all lies in the middle.
Middle class is a good majority of Capcom titles. The ones that sell about 800,000 to 1.5 million. They have some Niche stuff and they have some big name AAA titles, but for the majority it all lies in the middle.
I got Majin at full price in December and about a week later the game was reduced by half. Glad I got the chance to give Namco a full sale.
Seriously, what is with all the prescriptive, ______ type of game is dead/needs to die rhetoric? Videogaming isn't zero-sum. There's room for all kinds, and there's really no telling exactly what will become successful and why. I wish people would stop trying to wave a dismissive hand at anything that doesn't represent THEIR brand of gaming.
Funny, I had a very similar convo with a gamestop employee awhile ago. I was the one saying what you said Jim.
'Middle Class' games are still successful, just as 'Middle Class' movies are still successful. What the hell is he talking about. Just because those games don't do Gears numbers doesn't mean they weren't a success for the developers and publishers.
@cbarrentos
NIS is a niche cult company. That's why nearly all their games have only one print, and stay high priced for almost ever. I love them, and hope NIS stays around forever.
NIS is a niche cult company. That's why nearly all their games have only one print, and stay high priced for almost ever. I love them, and hope NIS stays around forever.
I'm not sure why a lot of game developers seem to be in a big rush to make a 1:1 correlation between the movie industry and the game industry. Certainly games are emulating the film industry model closely as of late (massive consolidations, big budgets, big stars, over-the-top PR budgets, pushing for 3D etc.) but that's mostly because the big publishers are actively pursuing that paradigm. I'm not sure why, really. Plenty of Hollywood blockbusters bomb in a spectacular fashion, so a big budget doesn't necessarily ensure profits. (And hey, I hate to tell Cliffy, but those Will Farrell and Marky Mark movies -- dumb as they may be -- still rake in the cash.)
There are some fundamental differences that are being ignored. Games are developed for dozens of platforms, and at a huge range of price points. Movies are stuck with either a theater release or a home video release. So I wouldn't be in such a rush to consciously mimick the film industry model.
There are some fundamental differences that are being ignored. Games are developed for dozens of platforms, and at a huge range of price points. Movies are stuck with either a theater release or a home video release. So I wouldn't be in such a rush to consciously mimick the film industry model.
I think avoiding competition is the best thing these games could do. Not just in scheduling releases more intelligently, or in changing your price, but in changing the entire focus of the game. The problem is, if you're not a Call of Duty or Gears of War or Final Fantasy there is a large portion of the market who will never hear about your game, even if you release it in a week when nothing else is released. What they should be doing is focusing on lowering the overhead, focusing less on the areas where those games succeed (presentation) and focus more on making fun games filled with good design decisions.
Enslaved, for instance, was good, but it tried to swing at the big boys. It came with lots of bugs in the presentation which caused a lot of people to write it off, and I'd say over 2/3rds of the console market still have *never* heard of it. It's just another game, and it really has nothing separating it from Generic Shovelware #4 (see: success of Sniper: Ghost Warrior off of its title alone).
Then, look at something like Demon's Souls, which executed what it needed to and tried to appeal to the 1/3rd of the market who heard of it. It was an unqualified success. It's goal was to get the small market who hears of these games (us!) excited about its possibilities, and then succeed via word of mouth. That's a strategy that would work: you cut out a lot of budgetary overhead, aim for a specific type of consumer, and rely on their enthusiasm to move your game.
Enslaved, for instance, was good, but it tried to swing at the big boys. It came with lots of bugs in the presentation which caused a lot of people to write it off, and I'd say over 2/3rds of the console market still have *never* heard of it. It's just another game, and it really has nothing separating it from Generic Shovelware #4 (see: success of Sniper: Ghost Warrior off of its title alone).
Then, look at something like Demon's Souls, which executed what it needed to and tried to appeal to the 1/3rd of the market who heard of it. It was an unqualified success. It's goal was to get the small market who hears of these games (us!) excited about its possibilities, and then succeed via word of mouth. That's a strategy that would work: you cut out a lot of budgetary overhead, aim for a specific type of consumer, and rely on their enthusiasm to move your game.
I completely agree with you, specially on the price issue. You wouldn't dare try to sell a mid-class car at the same price of a lamborghini, precisely because they didn't cost as much to make. Why do so with games? Sell it lower, you will sell more. In games this is actually even more productive than with cars. The word of mouth on the gaming market is incredibly powerful, therefore, the more people that get their hands of their games, the better. Just fucking try and start a domino effect, publishers.
Yeah, I think the price point thing is another side effect of the game industry trying to model themselves after Hollywood. ("That's the going price for a game.") Publishers should concentrate on what distinguishes games from films rather than just trying to copy their business model. There's no reason why a $60 game can't sell for $40 if the budget is lower.
Hmm, I don't consider Raven's titles to be middle-class. The budget, sales, and sheer fun have put them as a AAA-dev to me, anyway.
Woah, that Bleszinski fellow is a magnificent asshole.
Please Cliff, make more games with football players shooting aliens and a color palette of 12 colors.
We need you.
Please Cliff, make more games with football players shooting aliens and a color palette of 12 colors.
We need you.
@ootmians: While I agree with your reasons as to why they shouldn't be compared, I think that the reason they are is that movies (and tv) share gaming's relative "newness" to the social scene. We, as people, tend to use the things we're familiar with to describe the things we aren't. And, while games and video media have very prominent differences, you can't deny that its only in the last 100 years both have come into existence (although the reality of plays throughout history somewhat debunks that, the proliferation of said plays [i.e. movies] brought it to a new level) and so movies are the most recent, and closest, approximation some can make as we collectively work to define what videogames are, could be, and will become.
@Gorescream @janklogs
Emphatically agreed but let's face it, This is all CliffyB can do now: talk and talk. I mean what else is he known for other than Gears of War and ruining Unreal Tournament 3? Talking endlessly about Bulletstorm I guess.
Emphatically agreed but let's face it, This is all CliffyB can do now: talk and talk. I mean what else is he known for other than Gears of War and ruining Unreal Tournament 3? Talking endlessly about Bulletstorm I guess.
Middling, not very good middle class games can sell extremely well. You just have to include a GoW 3 "early access". :P
Most of the games I love could be considered middle-class ones. And the price of games nowadays is too expensive. That doesn't mean I don't buy a lot of games (on the contrary), they are just all either old or cheap. I rarely give more than 40 Euros, as in the end, that's a lot of money for few games. Though I buy in a heartbeat the games I consider worthwhile (like Solatorobo, Okami, El Shaddai or Klonoa), even though I'm a bit resilient, because of the price, but I like to give the money to the creator (and even the,n they get less than a third of it)
"Competitive prices? What do kind of industry you think this is? One that involves the making of money? We want to all be on a even plane here." But seriously I don't think Clifford is speaking the truth. Dude only made Gears, what gives him the authority to declare such a bold statement?
It's rare that I completely agree with you Jim, but in this case I do. You nailed it. Cliff is totally wrong.
When $10-15 XBLA/PSN games are turning into a billion dollar industry, how can anyone declare middle road games dead? He's badly missing the point.
Gamers waiting for the bargain bin are not the problem. Gamers have no more fucking money. The price on everything just keeps going up, the amount of titles goes up, the amount of DLC goes up, the amount of pre-order bonuses goes up, the live subscription goes up. And yet right now jobs and wages are in flames for a lot of people in this economy.
Middle class games will live on if people are smart enough to heed your advice on this one. The other thing to keep in mind though, is that while some of it is up to gamer attitudes - some of it is also up to reviewers.
When $10-15 XBLA/PSN games are turning into a billion dollar industry, how can anyone declare middle road games dead? He's badly missing the point.
Gamers waiting for the bargain bin are not the problem. Gamers have no more fucking money. The price on everything just keeps going up, the amount of titles goes up, the amount of DLC goes up, the amount of pre-order bonuses goes up, the live subscription goes up. And yet right now jobs and wages are in flames for a lot of people in this economy.
Middle class games will live on if people are smart enough to heed your advice on this one. The other thing to keep in mind though, is that while some of it is up to gamer attitudes - some of it is also up to reviewers.
I agree with you in principle, Jim, but the problem with your argument is this: pricing games at "middle class" levels would require publishers to tacitly admit that they're making "middle class" games, and that's not exactly an easy sales pitch.
"Play this game! It's got some issues, but it's July, and what the hell else're you gonna do, go outside?"
You know? It's hard to convince people to play something even the publisher admits has issues.
Also, what about the developers? If they believe they're making a "middle class" game, do you think they'll try as hard on it as they would on a full-priced title? And how do you stop the games from being perceived as "budget?"
Like I said, I fully agree that it's a space that NEEDS to exist. I just don't know if your solution would necessarily be the best one for the space.
"Play this game! It's got some issues, but it's July, and what the hell else're you gonna do, go outside?"
You know? It's hard to convince people to play something even the publisher admits has issues.
Also, what about the developers? If they believe they're making a "middle class" game, do you think they'll try as hard on it as they would on a full-priced title? And how do you stop the games from being perceived as "budget?"
Like I said, I fully agree that it's a space that NEEDS to exist. I just don't know if your solution would necessarily be the best one for the space.
I think his argument has something to it. The problem is that game budgets have increased at an exponential level, while the amount of copies sold per game has not necessarily gone up to the same degree. For Example, the third highest selling game on the SNES was Super Mario Kart with 8 million copies sold. The highest selling game on the Xbox was Halo 2, with about 8 million copies sold as well. And it goes without saying that Halo 2 probably cost a lot more to make than Super Mario Kart. And I have a feeling that there was less disparity between the budgets of games on the SNES than there was on the Xbox.
The base minimum budget it takes to bring a game up to standards is a lot more than it ever used to be. Even if you WANT to make a middle class game, it's still pretty expensive, and you have to sell a lot of copies to adjust for that. In this generation, the middle class is an "uncanny valley", where it's still too much effort with not enough payoff.
I agree that pricing and distribution has to change. I definitely found myself buying more "middle class" games on steam whenever there were appropriate sales, and Valve has claimed that these sales have resulted in good profits on otherwise unprofitable games. I think Valve is REALLY on to something with its system, and I think we can star to see it take hold in more and more places. But until that kind of system is the industry standard, I do think you'll continue to see a gaping hole in between indie games and AAA titles.
Of course, for some reason, none of this applies to "casuals". Wii Sports and Wii Play totally trump every element of this argument. Of course, it does help to mention that Wii Sports was bundled with a system, and Wii Play was on one of the only ways to get a wii remote for a while. So it's all about increasing the value of the purchase.
The base minimum budget it takes to bring a game up to standards is a lot more than it ever used to be. Even if you WANT to make a middle class game, it's still pretty expensive, and you have to sell a lot of copies to adjust for that. In this generation, the middle class is an "uncanny valley", where it's still too much effort with not enough payoff.
I agree that pricing and distribution has to change. I definitely found myself buying more "middle class" games on steam whenever there were appropriate sales, and Valve has claimed that these sales have resulted in good profits on otherwise unprofitable games. I think Valve is REALLY on to something with its system, and I think we can star to see it take hold in more and more places. But until that kind of system is the industry standard, I do think you'll continue to see a gaping hole in between indie games and AAA titles.
Of course, for some reason, none of this applies to "casuals". Wii Sports and Wii Play totally trump every element of this argument. Of course, it does help to mention that Wii Sports was bundled with a system, and Wii Play was on one of the only ways to get a wii remote for a while. So it's all about increasing the value of the purchase.
@Gritzy: True, and you make some good points. But why single out film? Television is even younger than film, and didn't base itself around the film model just because it was the most recent cultural touchstone. (Granted, who wants to see games with commercial interruptions every 7 minutes?) Still, while there are definitely parallels to be made with the film industry -- especially since games seem to be rapidly replacing film as the entertainment of choice -- I don't think that means that the industry should be going out of their way to emulate that business model. Plenty of movie studios have gone under or been swallowed by competitors after betting on the "big budget blockbuster" model.
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