games  anime  |  toys
Destructoid is gaming news, community, videos, and sometimes love. Take the tour or jump in with Facebook:

 



erere

A few months back, I did a piece on Mass Effect wherein I discussed the fact that, though the game had an epic, branching, nonlinear storyline, it frequently chose making the player "happy" over creating a suspenseful, tragic, dramatic storyline. If you liked a character, the game would not kill him under any circumstances, and if you hated one, the game acknowledged that it'd be okay to gank that person without the player getting upset.

Having just beaten Grand Theft Auto IV, I noticed Rockstar vastly improved upon many of the same structural ideas and narrative mechanics Mass Effect implemented a few months back. 

I can't get into too much more without spoiling stuff for those souls who haven't yet reached the end of Niko Bellic's bloody quest, so just hit the jump to see what I mean.

HUGE SPOILERS FOLLOW, of course.

Now, when I say that Rockstar "vastly improved" over Mass Effect's branching storyline idea, I obviously mean to say they "did the complete opposite."

In the final narrative decision of GTA IV, the game forces the player to choose which of two secondary characters (Roman or Kate) he or she prefers, then rewards that decision by killing off the selected character.

The choices you're given are presented under the guise of being either solely revenge-driven or money-driven, but a significant factor which guides the player's decision concerns which secondary character supports which option. Kate tells Niko that he shouldn't sacrifice his vengefulness for money (and that she'll leave him if he does), while Roman thinks Niko should leave his life of violence behind and get money for Roman and Mallorie's honeymoon. As the player has no real use for the half-million Pegorino promises Niko (unlike in Vice City, you can't buy property; any money the player earns past the $100,000 mark is pretty much frivolous), the final decision only partially concerns the question of revenge versus money -- equally, it's about choosing between Kate and Roman.  The choice only works, though, if you think it's all about the money and revenge.

werere

In the Mass Effect article, I said that to ask the player which character he cares about most with the explicit intent of then killing them would be (to use my exact words) "a dick move." I still believe that. Yet even though that's the exact situation we're presented with at the end of GTA IV, it's not framed as such; when Kate and Roman are killed, the player blames the characters who killed them, rather than the designers, for the tragedy.

Had the designers phrased the life-or-death decision in the straightforward terms Mass Effect is known for (specifically near the end, where the game puts two of your companions in danger and literally makes you choose who lives and who dies), the character deaths would have immediately aroused anger and distrust. If the game had straightforwardly asked the player, "Who do you want to live? Roman or Kate?," right before immediately killing whomever the player didn't want to die, the player would resent the writers all the way up until the end of the game. Phrasing this essential life or death choice as a matter of money or revenge was an incredibly clever way of working around this problem.

The result of all this, of course, is a much more emotionally satisfying payoff. Though the actual shooting scenes suffer from horrible camerawork and editing (Roman doesn't even get a close-up as he's shot), the fact that the player has to watch as the character they most cared about dies in Niko's arms adds a much more personal slant to the final mission, and ultimate theme of the game. 

erere

The post-tragedy chases and gunfights are, to a degree (more on that in a bit), designed to give the player the maximum emotional impact through simple virtue of choice. Since you unwittingly chose to have Kate or Roman die, it's your fault that they are killed, and therefore your responsibility to avenge them. Since the person who killed your loved one did so because you either betrayed them (Pegorino) or let them live (Dimitri), the player feels a stronger emotional connection to their respective endboss. The actual gameplay in the final two levels is essentially identical (did anyone else have to retry that boat-to-helicopter jump at least four times?), but the emotional charge behind it is specifically geared toward the player.

Same deal with the theme. No matter what, someone close to Niko dies, solidifying the themes "crime leads to the suffering of innocents"/"crime doesn't pay"/"the American Dream is a lie"/"violence begets violence", but the application of those themes are simply suited to the player's sensibilities by the branching plot.

However -- and I'm sure this wasn't intentional -- Rockstar subliminally rewards the player for taking the more "moral" path (in initially attempting to let Dimitri go) with a better dramatic conclusion. The entire game centers around Niko's character arc, as he goes from nonviolence, to violence, to either mercy or vengeance depending on how the player chooses. No matter what, each ending is reasonably satisfying due to their coming about from player choice, but the more moral act of renouncing vengeance is nonetheless rewarded with a generally superior ending.

erere

Opting for revenge at the end of the game is, from a storytelling point of view, not particularly interesting: Niko ends up pretty much exactly where he was at the beginning of the game in terms of his own capacity to commit violence. If he starts off the game willing and wanting to kill people and ends it willing and wanting to kill people, then his time in Liberty City hasn't really meant anything significant to him as a character. The writers do what they can to make this story branch  interesting for the duration of the game (Roman, for the first time ever, teams up with Niko to help him kill someone), but they've got their hands tied; the player has chosen a path in which Niko cannot possibly change as a character.

Additionally, the player who chooses revenge experiences less satisfying character interactions. Both Kate and Pegorino, while reasonably interesting in their own ways, still potentially mean much less to the player than the characters you've known since almost the beginning of the game (Pegorino doesn't show up until almost the end, and you only get to know Kate through taking her out on dates -- she's not intrinsic to the story, and therefore not as easy to care about). If the player chooses to kill Dimitri and make Kate happy, he obviously receives some narrative satisfaction deriving from the fact that Dimitri's death came about by personal choice, but the final fight against Pegorino can't help but feel pretty damn forced. Pegorino was an angry jerk, but did he really have what it took to just drive up and personally shoot at Niko? Maybe, but no matter how believable his reaction to Niko's betrayal is, it's nowhere near as effective as witnessing Dimitri do the same thing if the player chooses the money.

When Dimitri sends an assassin to kill Niko and Roman in the "anti-revenge" path, it makes perfect and immediate sense to the player. Throughout the game, Dimitri repeatedly calls Niko and makes arrogant death threats; he's one of the only characters in the game to actually gain both Niko and the player's trust through serving as a seemingly nonviolent foil to his partner, Mikhail; and he's pretty much set up as the main antagonist of the game once he guiltlessly betrays you. You know him, you hate him, and if you chose not to take revenge on the bastard, you probably did so with a little bit of hand-wringing and vengeful irritation. He is, for all narrative intents and purposes, your nemesis. It makes perfect sense that he would refuse to let the Bellic family go, even though he's already got his money and Niko stayed true to his word. Why? Because he's the bad guy, and has been throughout the rest of the game. To kill him at the very end is therefore an emotionally satisfying enterprise -- more satisfying than killing some Italian you only met a few hours ago, anyway. 

erere

Similarly, the player doesn't feel a moment's hesitation in chasing the assassins back to headquarters and killing Dimitri with extreme prejudice, simply due to how much Roman meant to both Niko and the player. When going back to replay the other ending, I didn't really feel emotionally dedicated to hunting down Pegorino and killing him: I felt like I was doing it more for Kate's sake than my own. When Roman died the first time I beat the game, however, I felt completely dedicated to finding Dimitri and making him pay simply because I liked Roman so much.

Trying to be a good person results in a much more tragic tale where Niko eventually reverts back to his more violent tendencies anyway, but the anti-revenge ending still remains superior to the alternative. Nobody can say Niko and the player didn't try to turn the other cheek -- Niko makes a full character arc, but is literally pulled back into his violent ways because of Roman's death. He's still a vastly different person at the end of the game, but he also finds that no matter how much he may want to change, the choices he made when he first arrived in Liberty City will still haunt him for the rest of his life. The story of a man who tried and failed to find redemption is much more interesting than that of a guy who didn't want to be redeemed in the first place -- the gunfight at the climax of the anti-revenge ending is not filled with jubilation or bloody satisfaction, but mourning for both Roman's death and Niko's inability to escape his history of violence.

Finally, I just wanted to focus on the final lines of both endings. Anti-game pundits probably wouldn't ever think of using the words "subtle" and "Grand Theft Auto IV" in the same sentence, but the differing dialogue at the end of each ending actually shows a great deal of subtlety and intelligence on Rockstar's part.

erere

After killing Dimitri in the anti-revenge ending, Niko expresses some hatred toward Dimitri and mourns Roman's death, but says essentially nothing else before Little Jacob takes him away. No monologue, no statement of values.

In the other ending, a supporting character tells Niko, "You did it," to which Niko responds: "I don't know...what did I do?" -- a line that seems more geared toward the player than anyone else.

A player who chose revenge as soon as it was offered would need this little unsubtle line of dialogue to explain the theme to them, since they obviously didn't make their decisions in such a way that suggested they'd understand this theme implicitly. Conversely, a player who tried to be merciful as much as possible already knows and believes what Niko would have said aloud in the other ending, and would thus be perfectly content to watch Niko kill Dimitri and silently walk offscreen. To prevent Niko from stating aloud the game's theme is a much better storytelling decision than what we get in the revenge ending, but each ending is specifically crafted to the assumed intelligence level of the player who reached that point.

All in all, the ending to GTA IV is a hell of an accomplishment in videogame storytelling. I'd have liked to see some better camerawork when Roman dies, and the final cut scene after Dimitri/Pegorino's death feels awfully abrupt considering the length of the game which preceded it, but Rockstar still managed to improve upon BioWare's flawed, branching story techniques and develop a truly interesting theme wrapped around a tragic, emotionally effective conclusion.


Continue: More Grand Theft Auto stories





prev 50 comments
next

80 comments | showing # 51 to 80

PopBot's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 21:21
PopBot
Great article, but I actually I found myself disagreeing. I don't believe sparing Dmitri was the moral choice. I don't think that there was a moral choice at all. On one hand you work with Dmitri for the cash, proving that you really will do anything for money (smuggle drugs, kill people, work for a man who betrayed you ). On the other hand, you can stick by your "principles", which also means that you (the character) can't really change and will forever be haunted by violence.

For the record, it took me three tries to get that last jump right.
XivSpew's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 21:31
XivSpew
For me, the real ending was choosing whether or not to kill Darko. Either way I chose, I was floored by what the game did with it. The sheer pathos dripping from the scene and the voices was almost too much to bear. Maybe it didn't wrap up GTA IV's story, but it wrapped up Niko's backstory very, very nicely.
zombie1823's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 21:57
zombie1823
I read this article about 30 seconds after I finished the story line. I choose the revenge path and suddenly thought I had just screwed myself over by choosing the slightly less tragic ending...Then I got a call from Roman saying that Mallorie was pregnant, and I couldn't helped myself from thinking about how messed up it would have been if I sacrificed Roman, when I had gotten to like his character, and knowing that he had a good future. I did like kate as a second character, but I thought that maybe another interpretation of the game might have been to learn to care about others and not always look out for yourself. If you save Kate, your doing it for yourself because she's a romantic interest. If you save Roman, your doing it because your willing to set aside your happiness so someone close to you can have their own happiness. well written article though.
TheDreadHawk's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 22:01
TheDreadHawk
This article is a work of freakin' art, man. I love it.
liqideos's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 22:18
liqideos
Nice work, the only thing I would have liked more is if explanation was clearly earmarked instead of intertwining within the two.

I chose the route from Kate's advice, and was really put off by the ending sequence.
Hamza CTZ Aziz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/02/2008 23:45
Hamza CTZ Aziz
I wonder, what's going to happen with the DLC. It's supposed to be new missions, so are they going to continue the storyline based on who survived at the end or completely separate itself from the rest of the game?
captain_awesome's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 02:27
captain_awesome
Am I the only person here who genuinely doesn't like Roman's character? Everything he does, from refusing to shut up about "american teetees" to claiming credit for things Niko did, is designed to get on my nerves. As for Kate, I felt that her relation with Niko was a bit forced (though I didn't do any of the date missions so I had very little contact with that character). Don't get me wrong, I like what rockstar tried to do here but in the end I don't really think the NPC's are as emotionally engaging are others seem to think they are.


Also, I don't think opting for revenge was less intelligent than working for the guy who screws you over multiple times.
That just proves that Niko is a cashwhore above all else (and since those are the only two options revenge seemed much more logical) -> I let the draco guy live because there I thought it was much more fitting to the character of Niko to let him go.
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 02:42
Timmeh
Oh and for the record, I think maybe you should reword smoe of that article.

You can't really argue that you picked the better ending and are somehow more intelligent when the game makes it obvious several times that choosing the deal means selling out your principles for greed. that and Dimitri taking further action being approx. 100000% more obvious than the revenge ending.

Just found that statement to be slightly boggling and maybe a little condescending towards your readers.
reticulate's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 05:58
reticulate
I chose the more 'moral' choices throughout the game (ie killing Playboy and Frankie, letting Darko go) but Dimitri was a completely different kettle of fish. I'd go as far as to say the exact opposite to what you've said - by doing the deal with this two-timing, backstabbing scumbag you essentially admit you've learned nothing; you're still in it for the cash, you don't care about anyone but yourself and you've just cut off the only person who could have offered you something resembling a new start.

Now that I think about it, insulting the intelligence (of it seems) a good number of the people replying because they chose to redeem Niko rather than sell him down the river makes you look like the one who 'didn't get the story'. I get that Niko realises he can't get away from who he is or what he's done, I get that despite all the choices he's made he's still Niko Bellic, hitman and drug runner. I get he's not happy with his life, but god damn it he had the chance to try and seek some sort of redemption in the only way he knew how - take out that asshole Dimitri before he caused more carnage.

I'm voting that, in fact, killing Dimitri was by far the better ending, and most certainly more in line with the person Niko is. And anyone who'd spent any actual time dating Kate (after you realised you'd probably never get in her pants) would probably get that.

Although I agree the last mission sucked ass. That bike jump was stupid.
jesusofwales's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 06:31
jesusofwales
I wrote a bit about moral choices in GTA IV if anyone is interested. Clicky.
jesusofwales's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 07:44
jesusofwales
@ Hamza

My guess would be that the DLC involves Bulgarin as he wasn't killed during the course of the game and still has a grudge against Niko, but that would seem a little forced as the finale missions highlight the fact that Niko wanted out of the life of crime, even if he was forced abruptly back into it for the sake of revenge.
weedgan's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 08:39
weedgan
You know I havnt beat the game yet, but I knew this was going to be the ending. I mean, roman is like the BIG guy in the game next to kate, so everybody pretty much figured the end would involve both of them...well I thought the ending would have michelle in it too, but i guess not.

I'll probably just kill kate though, I think romans a cooler guy, plus the shit he says when you get him drunk is hilarious,

"I AM AN ANIMAL NIKO, A FUCKING ANIMALLL!" *Falls into taxi*
Demtor's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 10:08
Demtor
Pfft, I knew the theme of the game. I just didn't care at that point cause I knew Nikko was getting screwed either way. I kept thinking about Godfather 3

SPOILER ALERT (for a misunderstood, trilogy ending movie)
.
.
.
.
.
.
Killing Michael Corleone would have been too easy for the main character. Instead the life of the person closest to him, Kay, was taken and Michael was left to wallow in his own misery and shame for the choices in life he made. Damned to spend an eternity alone and isolated in his sin.

So when there was the first few mentions of a wedding in GTAIV I knew immediately that it wasn't going to be just a wedding. Something was going to happen, count on it. I choose revenge with more of a "fuck it" attitude. Some people are going to die regardless of what I do at this point, things are too far gone. Might as well kill someone as a choice instead of making a deal with the devil. Fucked either way, but at least I'd go out swinging.

Also, am I the only one that got that bike jump on the first try? Maybe I just get lucky...
The Amazing Shenazin's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/03/2008 21:58
The Amazing Shenazin
ah I was just about to do a blog post about this myself :P

anyway I went with getting the money the first time because I felt Roman was right about revenge being pointless and whatnot (I didn't kill Darko) and I wanted to do something [i]for him[/i[ because I liked him so much

and I HATED HATED HATED that he died! so much so that I reloaded a save and did it the other way and since I never cared about Kate too much her death wasn't a big deal to me

but your absolutely right about the other ending being superior simply because it was so emotional, it truly felt like a friend had died

also I think the mission itself is interesting because it's not a huge spectacle like the previous games (especially San Andreas) it's just a shootout at the old casino, a helicopter chase and then one last brief shootout at happiness island and that makes it feel like a hallow victory or something...
Raidensolid's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/04/2008 02:32
Raidensolid
Yes, It had a very Emo ending.
coffeesash's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/04/2008 17:50
coffeesash
The reason I didn't like the ending(s) was after 30 hours of playing the game, all that story, the characters you care abou, Niko just stands over the dead body then walks off and the credits go. That's not an ending at all. It's kind of like a NES era CONGLATURATION screen. Then, after the credits, you go back to the game. But you can't do anything more with the story and after a few phonecalls, the story is totally over with and you don't get to find out what happens to anybody. It totally lacks closure.

Niko: "Maybe later, there is still much to do"

Much to do? What are you going to do, Niko? Shoot 200 pigeons and jump off some ramps and then exist with no purpose forever? It's just plain depressing that there's no more story but you can keep on playing. What it really needed was much more of a meaty ending and then to go back to a title screen (which the game doesn't have) with the option to go back to a save before the game ends.
DaedHead8's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/05/2008 23:33
DaedHead8
I just beat the game and I had no idea that Kate died because I picked the revenge path. I avoided all spoilers I could.

I let the junkie from my past live because I expected him to be some big shot gangster who could possibly harm me (me being niko). When I discovered he was a low life I let him suffer and walked away, not before firing my pistol right over his head though. However, I felt it would have been wrong to let Dimitri live as he had the power to harm me or those that I cared about.

I never bothered to date kate more than a few times but I was still affected by her death. I was allready pissed at Pegorino for the way he ordered me around, after all I'm nobodies slave and then he kills the woman I intended to marry? It made Pegorino the perfect end boss for me.
The Incredible Edible Egg's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/06/2008 09:50
The Incredible Edible Egg
I was fortunate enough to save close enough to the ending to play through this twice and it was worth it. The first time, I got revenge and I agree that it didn't feel quite as deep as losing Roman. I am really glad I played through twice.

p.s. I did have to play through the boat thing about 6 times. He kept hitting me with rockets while I was climbing up and my camera got stuck looking at the last place the chopper was, so I would have to start the mission from the beginning.

p.p.s. Tazar got a call from an unknown caller, which ended up being Kate after completing the games revenge end. Weird.

p.p.p.s. Nobody tell Phist that I'm the happy mask salesman on Tomopop. Nyahaha!
wardrox's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/06/2008 14:10
wardrox
The ending for me was meh. I chose to kill Demetry because he was a dick to me, and I hadn't take Kate out on all bar 2 dates (due to the game's bugs) so didn't really care. I also didn't actually want to get with Kate because I killed her brother. Didn't seem right.

Now,I Roman had been killed, that would be a good ending.
4knuckleshuffle's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/06/2008 23:12
4knuckleshuffle
Am I the only person who thinks that everyone in that game was a complete retard? I haven't played it, but I know I'm right./fanboy

Srsly though, I read it solely to save myself money by spoiling the story. Great read.
RDS48926's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/07/2008 23:04
RDS48926
i myself thought that the death of Kate was the more emotional ending for me. even though i do realy like Roman, haha lovable bafoon, but in the game Kate is the charicter that Niko realy opens up to, and you get to actualy fight the one who kills her where as when Romans killed you kill the hitman before you even know Romans dead. but i will say that ultimutly that the death of Kate is the ending that i prefer, you still get to hang out with Roman, where as in the deal vesion you never get to even go back out with Kate. so personaly i do'nt know they're both very depresing endings that completely cold cocked me, i can honestly say i never saw them coming, even after i went back and played the deal mode i thought that i'd just never see Kate agin and no one would die. all an all though i liked the endings not many if any have ever made me actualy a little sad to see a charicter die
SorcererXIII's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/09/2008 00:18
SorcererXIII
At first I started to do the "money" ending, but the dialogue seemed to be like, "it's funny how money can make you forget how rotten someone was", and it didn't feel right. So I reset and chose the revenge ending. I agree I'd rather not have Roman die . . . but actually I wish that I wasn't given a choice. The ending would just have more impact if Roman died. It fits with the theme of the whole game.
Clance's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/10/2008 07:58
Clance
fantastic article man. I just finished the game last night and chose the anti-revenge ending.... I just wanted to make Roman happy!!!???

I feel I made a good choice aesthetically in this but losing Roman almost makes it worthwhile to instead have exacted my revenge on Demetri and have the less satisfying ending. It's a perfect balance they have.

Really love how you pitted the two endings, their quality and the dialogue and stuff against one another.

The best thing I've read on this site to date.
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/10/2008 17:00
B-Radicate
Having literally JUST finished the game (and subsequently your article) I hafta say that both the ending and your article are a mixed bag for me.

For the record, I knew the whole "choice" in the end was coming. My own fault, but I knew it. So, because I liked Roman so much, I made my "anti-money" choice based on the fact I didn't want Roman to die. I didn't care if Kate died because, as you stated, she's just a girl you go on dates with. There was no emotional attachment to her for me. Whereas I really like Roman.

So, knowing I had a chance to save Roman from an untimely death, I had Kate knocked off on purpose, more or less.

In so doing I managed to have the "lesser" experience as you sort of describe. However, I feel it was just as satisfying for me to complete. In fact, I feel as though having Kate killed results in two arcs at once.

Not only did I get to exact my revenge on Dimitri by killing him on the boat, I also got to hunt down Peg after he went nuts. Perhaps I didn't get to see Dimitri all the way through to his "arch-nemesis" conclusion, but putting a bullet in his skull was satisfying regardless of when I did it.

Overall, though, I'm actually extremely let down by the storyline in IV. The whole time I played I had this nagging feeling that what I was doing was meaningless and I still hold by that thought.

Where Mass Effect GREATLY succeeded where IV failed was in the character's motivation for the storyline. In IV you sorta show up and just wanna "find a guy" and you hafta work for people blah blah because this "guy" did something terrible to you years ago. Well, that's great and all, but I (as the player) have no real motivation to find this guy because I didn't experience this atrocity personally.

Whereas, in Mass Effect, you're on the mission where the bad guy goes nuts and you sorta experience that first hand. Then you have a hand in deciding what to do and how to do it. Those decisions then spur you on your epic quest.

To me, despite how long ME took to complete, I knew my final goal was to eventually stop Saren because he was the evil guy trying to destroy everyone. In IV I thought I was supposed to find Darko Brevic and then I do and he's just another live/die choice that really doesn't effect anything in regards to the story's conclusion. That really irked me.

You claim Dimitri was Niko's nemesis but I highly disagree. Darko was the man you search for the entire game, he's the reason you left your old country and came here, and then you find him and killing him or letting him live has ZERO impact on what happens afterwards besides some dialog with Roman. That is a huge flaw, in my eyes.

IV sorta pulls the rug out from under you in the end and goes, "Well, to hell with the guy you thought was important, it's really Dimitri and/or Peg you should be worried about," despite whether or not you agree. You, clearly, agreed. You thought Dimitri was important. I, personally, didn't give a fuck about him. He may have called threatening me every so often but he was just another guy I did jobs for at one point or another, which is sadly what most characters become in any GTA game.

People claim IV had a much harder hitting storyline than the others, but where it succeeded (the choice at the end) I also feel it failed (the lack of true motivation/Darko). Oh well, to each his own, right?
Ell12's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/15/2008 13:15
Ell12
I chose to go for revenge because i'd been spoiled, i knew kate would die and although i'd been on dates with her and been through all these deep conversations, i still didn't fell as close to her as roman. The thing that makes me feel annoyed though is now that io've completed the game, it's like none of this stuff ever happened. I've been drinking etc with Roman and Packie since i completed and when i speak to them in the car all Roman says is things like, "So Niko, aren't you loving America? They have great titties over here!" and all that stuff, just like he would at the start. No talking about how you feel about kate's death or how the marriage with Mallorie is going etc. And Packie is the same, completely oblivious to the fact that his sister got murdered at a wedding with Niko.
Maybe it's just me who feels this way but it makes me want to stop playing because towards the end i got reaaly involved in the storyline and with the characters and now it's like none of it ever happened. Makes me feel distant.
Capricorn87's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/15/2008 19:59
Capricorn87
Gentlemen, all your comments and opinions are of great intrigue as I have yet to reach the end with only 56% completed. However guys, I really need toknow how I can save it after choosing an ending and going back and carrying out the other one. Can anyone please please tell me how to do this? Because I thought once you saved a game, it automatically saved over the previous save. Many thank guys. Happy gaming.
houmie's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/10/2008 16:17
houmie
A very good article mate. I must disagree with you on few points though.

I have first finished the Revenge and then the Deal and I must say - like you - the Deal has struck me much more, since I was really thinking this would be now a happy end for everyone and Pegorino would definitely bring me the head of Dimitri, because of the latter's betrayal. (Especially after seeing what Pegorino is capable of by seeing the Revenge ending).

I think the reason why people like you and me were not that much struck by Revenge ending, was because we didn't invest so much in Kate. I have dated her only twice. I never have seen how Niko opens up himself to her and actually talks about his past. Something he barely did even with Roman. There are players who have invested in Kate and were much more devastated by the revenge ending. And if I just think about the moment you call Packie after the credits and he cries on the phone that he is the last McReary that remains for his mom and he would be worth nothing. That is even more hurt bleeding.

I think personally it is much easier to fall for Roman, since you start the game with him. If you want it or not - if you like to invest in him or not - you are forced to interact with him and sooner or later you fall in love with his funny way of life. Whereby Kate needs to be invested in. And since most players don't do anything without a reward; and there was no point in dating Kate since she didn't want to have sex nor did she have any ability to help out, least people dated her. :) Thats a mistake in game design. They could have maybe pushed it a bit more in Kate's direction.

In revenge scene you found it also weird that Pegorino does the assassination attempt himself rather than sending his guys. If you observe the game carefully you would remember that Pegorino was running out of men. They were turning against him or were leaving his family due no power nor money. He was almost finished and this mission was his last hope. Like in series "Sopranos" or Mafia style movies, it is not uncommon that a case is taken into the boss's hand directly.

You also criticize the lack of close-up camera, when Roman is shot in Deal ending. However I think sometimes not seeing something is worse than seeing it. Remember the scene of Roman Polanski's Macbeth when he cuts the face of that soldier and the latter hides his face with bare hands and screams. A famous scene that shows dramatic violence doesn't need to involve blood. I found it actually very moving how Niko reacted. He knew Roman was shot due Mallory's screaming and he couldn't accept it and kept shooting at the assassin's corpse repeatedly and kicking him afterwards, mourning that he let it go because Roman wanted it and see now the consequences.

The Revenge scene was a bit more quiet, Niko should have at least hold Kate in the arms for few seconds to make it more dramatic. A bit more drama was somehow missing. However there was also the long conversation with Kate and Nico just before the church that made up for it a bit. But the Revenge was superior in showing the emptiness of taking revenge after Pegorino's death and Roman's comment "We won". And yet there was nothing to be won. While in Deal ending, there was nothing the player could have done better, he sought redemption by not taking revenge and it became worse. Not only he lost his Cousin, but he also broke up with Kate. Kate actually calls up Niko a few moments later in game and says she would be sorry and she would be there for Niko whenever he wants. but Niko thanks her and says he has more important things to do. Three game days later whenever I call her, she doesn't pick up. I think they have broken up for good. In this sense going the "good" path hurts even a bit more as you said. Gosh, even Mallory calls crying and says she is pregnant.

I think no video game was ever able to bring such a drama over the screen. Thumbs up!
kingrollo06's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/10/2008 18:54
kingrollo06
Well Like I saw that someone else did... I got emotionally attatched to kate, only because I wanted to know more about Niko cos she is the only person he opens up to in the whole storyline.... I think it was a bad idea that they completely cut off kate at the end of the game (apart from Ghost kate if u have her) .... other than that, the article was a fantastic read hope to see some more writing to come!


BTW GTA Vice City + San Andreas were the best

Vice city = Strip club owner and car showroom was sick!!
San Andreas = being the fucking don of the whole gangland was immense with the homeys and that LOL! BEst GTA i have ever played!!
ttreen's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/15/2008 19:01
ttreen
I will always choose the Revenge path as my GTA IV ending because of the implications it has on Niko. Kate's death is what is central to the plot because we see how right Roman and Bernie were when they told Niko to move on. Roman gets Mallorie and a very happy ending because he never let the pain that his life brought him weigh him down, whereas Niko is punished for his obsession with vengeance. I never killed Darko Brevic, but that was because I felt Niko had learned to pity Darko and felt that his life was torture enough for his actions. Dmitri had crossed the line by kidnapping Roman, and Niko simply wanted to be free of the threat Dmitri posed. After killing Dmitri, the story is over, happy endings all around, we are all richer for the experience, blah blah blah right? This is wear Kate dying is truly vital to the story. Kate is the one good thing in Niko's life; she has come from a family of murderers and addicts and is still somehow a good person. She single-handedly redeems Niko's belief in people and gives him a new lease on life. Unlike Niko, she is not sullied by the gruesome nature of Liberty City and she represents the one thing Niko does not understand: pure innocence. In my opinion, everything Niko had learned about redemption, pity and forgiveness died with Kate McReary.
kacie anne's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2008 16:53
kacie anne
I spared everyone I felt deserved to be spared. I spared Darko because in the state he was in, there was no point in killing him. I decided to kill Playboy over Dwayne and Francis over Derrick. I felt Dwayne & Derrick deserved to live because Playboy turned his back on an old friend who helped him get to the top and Francis was a liar. Derrick was messed up, but at least he knew he was and didn't try to hide it.

In the end, I went after the revenge path because for 1) I had a ton of money already, 2) I didn't want to let Kate down, I believed her to make more sense anyways, and 3) I didn't want to go against my morals and work for Dimitri just for money. I didn't read ahead and know what would happen based on this decision, but after Kate died and I killed Pegerino, I just got depressed. With San Andreas, I played the game over a TON of times because it was always fun and happy and everything ended up okay. But with Niko, I can't even look at him without just feeling bad for the guy.

After reading about the other ending (Deal), I'm still not sure which one I'd prefer, but I know I was REALLY sad when Kate died. Not so much because I prefered Kate, but because Niko had just been talking about starting a life with her, and how he was ready to let all his crimes go and just be good. And then for her to die without any last words or anything.. so sad, because he really cared about her.

After the game, everything just seemed pointless. I can't even play the game anymore because it all seems so futile.

I think the ending I chose was more effective than the other.
prev 50 comments next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

 
New on Destructoid.TV play all videos

Loading
Loading Destructoid Videos


    Win this!
    Dive in! meetup+play for a chance to win a PC

    Dtoid Twitter    Got news?   tips@destructoid.com

    Reviews & Previews
    Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter review
    Echoes review
    Assassin's Creed 2 review
    Crossfire Remote Pistol review
    Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles review
    more reviews
    Driver
    Avatar
    GT Racing Motor Academy
    Bad Company 2 beta dishes out meaningful experiences
    Legend of Zelda Spirit Tracks
    more previews


    - The Dtoid Army is 51220 strong -

    Showing Cblogs with 3+ faps   show all

    Call for entries: do the wrong thing

    New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide




     Originals
    Joseph Leray: Revisited: Gears of War 2, Pinocchio, and masculinity





















    More Destructoid Originals




     Popular now more
    Assassins CreedReview: Assassin's Creed 2
    591 comments + 41542 views
    Destructoid OriginalWhy No More Heroes HD could mean a Wii total victory
    152 comments + 30508 views
    FAILGirl smashes boyfriend's Xbox 360, films it
    160 comments + 16924 views
    BattlefieldBad Company 2 beta dishes out meaningful experiences
    43 comments + 16114 views
    Black FridayBlack Friday: Walmart going nuts with game sales
    31 comments + 16048 views
    Amazon.comBlack Friday: Amazon dropping deals all week long
    16 comments + 15004 views
    Amazon.comAmazon teases its Black Friday sales line-up
    18 comments + 14836 views
    Destructoid OriginalThe tragic history of the videogame turkey
    51 comments + 13276 views
    CapcomHot new SSFIV trailer shows Guy, Cody and Adon in action
    54 comments + 13222 views
    Call of DutyModern Warfare 2 DLC still planned for spring 2010
    27 comments + 12568 views


    Team Destructoid   tips@destructoid.com
    Nick Chester
    Editor-in-Chief
    Niero
    Founder, publisher
    Jim Sterling
    Reviews Editor
    Hamza Aziz
    Community Manager
    Dale North
    News Editor
    Rey Gutierrez
    Video editor & director
    Anthony Burch
    Features Editor
    Colette Bennett
    Tom Fronczak Brad Nicholson
    Ashley Davis Ben Perlee
    Conrad
    Zimmerman
    Chad Concelmo
    Jonathan Holmes Jonathan Ross
    Brad Rice Jordan Devore
    Will Maddock Matthew Razak
    Dyson Joseph Leray
    Topher Cantler Samit Sarkar
         
      Dexter
    Adam Dork
    Daniel Lingen
    Hollie Bennett
    Joe Burling
    Mikey
    Stella Wong

    Josh Tolentino




     

     
      get involved

    register or login
    post a blog
    post a forum
    enter a contest
    contribute a news tip
    suggest a feature
    be a guest editor
    support

    new member's guide
    login assistance
    tech support
    report abuse
    email our editors
    read our dev blog
    nuclear crisis?
    keep in touch

    RSS feed
    Twitter
    Facebook
    Myspace
    Flickr
    Game nights
    Meetup+play online
    seriously

    about Destructoid
    advertising
    terms of use
    privacy policy
    jobs at MM
    buy our crap
    our network

    Tomopop
    Japanator
    Despingation?




    Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
    living the dream since March 16, 2006