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Variety is the spice of life? For god's sake chad tell me you got that from the 1980's girls puberty video with the dressing room!
Yes yes a thousand times yes. This blog perfectly sums up my feelings about telltale, and I don't have anything else to add except that I feel the same way.
I dislike episodic games.
I loved Launch of the screming Narwhal... but i've got to wait several more weeks to play the rest of the game!!
I loved Half-life 2, ep1 and ep2 ..but I think I will be 72 by the time I get my arthritus ridden hands on the 3rd.
It's all just a way to squeeze more money and time out of the consumer. Release a FULL game on a disk or via the internet.... make it have everything it should have to begin with, all the modes, story etc.... and I will be happy.
I loved Launch of the screming Narwhal... but i've got to wait several more weeks to play the rest of the game!!
I loved Half-life 2, ep1 and ep2 ..but I think I will be 72 by the time I get my arthritus ridden hands on the 3rd.
It's all just a way to squeeze more money and time out of the consumer. Release a FULL game on a disk or via the internet.... make it have everything it should have to begin with, all the modes, story etc.... and I will be happy.
Now that you mention it, they do look rather similar. I miss sprite based adventures. Somebody should start that company.
Really nice idea for a series, Chad.
I agree with what you're saying, but I wonder if Telltale has a reason for it. Having a standout visual style that stays consistent is probably a good move in terms of getting your games noticed. In Telltale's case, we know them for making really good adventure games, and many of us could say "Oh, hey, look at that screenshot. That's a Telltale game." I'm sure the Telltale people love this, as it immediately puts the idea of quality in our minds even without having played the game. Hell, look what happened with Diablo 3. People are stubborn about visual style changes, and when they happen in a way that people don't like, the questions start flying about whether the game's even going to be the same. I know the hardcore Fallout people had similar reactions when Fallout 3 was coming to light (though that's a very extreme case, as a LOT more than the visual style changed).
I guess what I mean to say is that there are advantages and disadvantages to varying a visual style, and keeping things the same is probably a safe, yet boring decision. I'm with you in hoping that we get more variety, but I understand the reasons behind the decision if we don't.
I agree with what you're saying, but I wonder if Telltale has a reason for it. Having a standout visual style that stays consistent is probably a good move in terms of getting your games noticed. In Telltale's case, we know them for making really good adventure games, and many of us could say "Oh, hey, look at that screenshot. That's a Telltale game." I'm sure the Telltale people love this, as it immediately puts the idea of quality in our minds even without having played the game. Hell, look what happened with Diablo 3. People are stubborn about visual style changes, and when they happen in a way that people don't like, the questions start flying about whether the game's even going to be the same. I know the hardcore Fallout people had similar reactions when Fallout 3 was coming to light (though that's a very extreme case, as a LOT more than the visual style changed).
I guess what I mean to say is that there are advantages and disadvantages to varying a visual style, and keeping things the same is probably a safe, yet boring decision. I'm with you in hoping that we get more variety, but I understand the reasons behind the decision if we don't.
Heavens to Betsy? It's one thing to try reinserting old phrases into modern vernacular, but if nobody understands them, then what's the point?
Awesome idea for a feature, Chad! Do you think that more focus on artistic lighting would take their art to the next level? I think in terms of sets, characters, and textures, Wallace and Gromit did a great job matching a style, but everything seems so gray (and not in a Gears of War way) because it seemed mostly lit with white lights. If you look at a wallace and gromit film, the lights are waaaay more colorful.
Is Monkey Island much of an improvement? I haven't had a chance to play the new episodes yet, but it seems like they're steadily getting better visually, which is promising
Is Monkey Island much of an improvement? I haven't had a chance to play the new episodes yet, but it seems like they're steadily getting better visually, which is promising
I love these games (I've beaten all Telltale has to offer but Sam and Max Season 2), and I agree with you.
@Chad
I think the simple reason why they're using the same exact engine for every single game is budgetary issues. Adventure games are still fairly niche, and they're sort of fresh off being kicked out of Lucas Arts.
I think that after Monkey Island sees success like Grand Adventures and Save the World never did, we'll see a graphical/stylistic update :D
@Chad
I think the simple reason why they're using the same exact engine for every single game is budgetary issues. Adventure games are still fairly niche, and they're sort of fresh off being kicked out of Lucas Arts.
I think that after Monkey Island sees success like Grand Adventures and Save the World never did, we'll see a graphical/stylistic update :D
"You give me the vapors!"
That's either a grand compliment or a grave insult. Thus, I am either flattered or offended, depending on the nature of your comment.
That's either a grand compliment or a grave insult. Thus, I am either flattered or offended, depending on the nature of your comment.
I agree Chad. Sam & Max's current style puts me to sleep.
What this boils down too, in my opinion, is the inherent pluses of 2D. With 3D, the player has way more places to go with their character AND their attention. With 2D, it's all there, and imagination has a bigger role. When you gotta solve puzzles by using items from the scenery, you kinda HAVE to dim down the complexity in 3D cause otherwise the player will get utterly lost.
What this boils down too, in my opinion, is the inherent pluses of 2D. With 3D, the player has way more places to go with their character AND their attention. With 2D, it's all there, and imagination has a bigger role. When you gotta solve puzzles by using items from the scenery, you kinda HAVE to dim down the complexity in 3D cause otherwise the player will get utterly lost.
I'll be darn' tootin' if it isn't working on me as well, gosh darnit!
As for the actual article, if its a company making non-realistic/cartoony games, it is a darn shame if they use the same art style/graphics. It is just a bit...wasted?
As for the actual article, if its a company making non-realistic/cartoony games, it is a darn shame if they use the same art style/graphics. It is just a bit...wasted?
This article came at the perfect time since I've been on a huge adventure game kick during 2009. I like the idea of an article series that offers friendly criticisms in conjunction with praise for things that are done right. I get really sick of the wall to wall hate on the internet, so it's nice to see some feedback that's constructive and has a good sense of perspective.
Well than I am flattered in a grand, if slightly gross, way.
Enjoy the mental picture that gives you, good sir.
Enjoy the mental picture that gives you, good sir.
Well they are made by samw people on the same engine in rather small time. And you really need to be a Nitpicking Nick to say that graphics in Tales are not vastly superior to previous Telletale games. They did some great depth of field effects and models are a lot more animated now. C'mon give those guys a break.
"I Love You But 15-620x.jpg"
What the hell game is that with the robots? It's so gorgeous and I don't think I've seen it before!
What the hell game is that with the robots? It's so gorgeous and I don't think I've seen it before!
I very much enjoyed this article. Please write more Chad! I'd love to hear what you have to say on other overlooked video game issues.
I think Sam & Max Season 2 summed up the graphical issues for me. Too many re-used locations and characters from the first game. Most of the jokes were just forced around their presence. They even make fun of the fact as a way of saying sorry at one point. It was a great game, but I think it showed up how much Telltale are on a tight deadline with their games. I don't they can afford to sit on a franchise like Monkey Island or Sam & Max just yet.
I totally agree, Chad. Telltale's games look okay, but they all look the same, and they are not nearly *breathtaking* like they could be.
I think it has something to do with deadlines, reducing the download size and low system requirements. All this just isn't worth it.
My heart sank a little when I heard Telltale got their slimy hands on Monkey Island and I don't want them to touch anything else.
My heart sank a little when I heard Telltale got their slimy hands on Monkey Island and I don't want them to touch anything else.
The good thing about Chad is that when he says something negative. We listen.
And its a good thing because this is so true. I love love love the old Sam n Max graphics. My eyes unfocus and cross when I stare at the bland graphics of Save the World.
Good article Chadmond.
And its a good thing because this is so true. I love love love the old Sam n Max graphics. My eyes unfocus and cross when I stare at the bland graphics of Save the World.
Good article Chadmond.
I've never been a big fan of episodic content because its like paying for the same game over and over again. it seems like the telltale games make that same mistake by using the same graphics engine to churn out the same design.
I'd like to see Telltale try to grow and publish some indie games like the robot one you show above, since they are pretty much the forefront of adventure games right now.
I'd like to see Telltale try to grow and publish some indie games like the robot one you show above, since they are pretty much the forefront of adventure games right now.
From reading the other comments I'm sure some of this comes from deadlines and size requirements, but there is a bit more a fundamental reason at work here.
Not getting into a 2d vs 3d thing here, you still have to recognize the limitations of both formats and how they influence design. When working in a 2d environment you can put a lot of detail into the backgrounds because they don't move, the characters however have to be designed simply so that they are easy to animate. The contrast of having less detail and brighter colors on the characters, against the highly detailed backgrounds make them pop more (contrast).
In 3d there is no cost to designing complicated characters in animation. So the quality of the characters matches the BG, good or bad, making them all just kinda mush together.
All that said, the new telltale Sam and Max is the cats pajamas :)
Not getting into a 2d vs 3d thing here, you still have to recognize the limitations of both formats and how they influence design. When working in a 2d environment you can put a lot of detail into the backgrounds because they don't move, the characters however have to be designed simply so that they are easy to animate. The contrast of having less detail and brighter colors on the characters, against the highly detailed backgrounds make them pop more (contrast).
In 3d there is no cost to designing complicated characters in animation. So the quality of the characters matches the BG, good or bad, making them all just kinda mush together.
All that said, the new telltale Sam and Max is the cats pajamas :)
I'm not entirely sure I agree with everything here.
I get it, and I think that TT could definitely be doing more to give games a more individualistic look, but on the other hand I do think the style has been different from game to game. The characters in Sam and Max are very much in a Steve Purcell style, the Wallace and Gromit ones are obviously in that Aardman claymation style and the Monkey Island ones are again different. There are certain similarities, sure, but I think it's a little hard to say that they're all in the same style.
Also you mention use of camera angles and this is again something they have been working on - the switch to direct control over characters instead of point and click movement has enabled them to free up the camera a lot more, e.g. the close up following Guybrush across the bridge to the doctor in Chapter 1. It's true that there aren't many wide shots, but I'm not sure that a 3D game would really benefit from them.
But on the other hand, yes, I think they could be doing more graphically than they are already doing - it'd be interesting to see if they will use the cel-shaded style visuals the engine is capable of since the Strong Bad games in future projects, because I think they could come up with a really create style of their own using that.
But yeah... graphical improvements... that'll come with continued success - when you compare early Sam and Max to Tales of Monkey Island it's clear they've already made a lot of progress, here.
I get it, and I think that TT could definitely be doing more to give games a more individualistic look, but on the other hand I do think the style has been different from game to game. The characters in Sam and Max are very much in a Steve Purcell style, the Wallace and Gromit ones are obviously in that Aardman claymation style and the Monkey Island ones are again different. There are certain similarities, sure, but I think it's a little hard to say that they're all in the same style.
Also you mention use of camera angles and this is again something they have been working on - the switch to direct control over characters instead of point and click movement has enabled them to free up the camera a lot more, e.g. the close up following Guybrush across the bridge to the doctor in Chapter 1. It's true that there aren't many wide shots, but I'm not sure that a 3D game would really benefit from them.
But on the other hand, yes, I think they could be doing more graphically than they are already doing - it'd be interesting to see if they will use the cel-shaded style visuals the engine is capable of since the Strong Bad games in future projects, because I think they could come up with a really create style of their own using that.
But yeah... graphical improvements... that'll come with continued success - when you compare early Sam and Max to Tales of Monkey Island it's clear they've already made a lot of progress, here.
Sweet sassy molassy, what adventure games are the first two screenshots in the P.S. section from (entitled original and gorgeous)?
Dear Chad Concelmo,
I love you.
Your biggest fan,
.tiff
(p.s. I kind of flipped out when you included a screenshot from Sanitarium! OMG!)
I love you.
Your biggest fan,
.tiff
(p.s. I kind of flipped out when you included a screenshot from Sanitarium! OMG!)
Well done, Mr. Concelmo. I absolutely agree with you here. All of their games look nice but they all look the same. Wallace & Gromit really couldn't be helped much though as that's just the way it SHOULD be, tbh.
I think that the reason a lot of the older adventure games had more unique graphics was because each "scene" was basically an individual drawing that started out as a sketch on a storyboard. Time was taken to make that image look the best that it could on its own. These days with full camera control and the ability to store more of the game in RAM (less frequent load times) there's a higher emphasis on making the game design consistent from scene to scene, so dynamic lighting might haven fallen to the wayside in favor of this.
Either that or they're just trying to keep their budgets down.
Either that or they're just trying to keep their budgets down.
Chad, you're forgetting the Strong Bad games. I will forgive Telltale of anything because they made Strong Bad games.
I can understand the sentiment towards the similarities in visual style amongst all the episodic games Telltale has done thus far, but I think Telltale has mentioned in the past that they use the same graphics/game engine they created for all their games as a means of being able to maintain a reasonable schedule for developing and releasing the episodes. It could be part of the reason why they nailed down how to do episodic gaming in such a timely fashion now. I'm willing to let a minor grievance slide as long as the games continue to entertain with fun puzzles and great story/humor.
omg Mr. Chad Here is one for you collection. "Good Gollie" that was one of my great grandmother' favs
i agree with the need of a change but i seriously see teh characters a much different size in relation to their surroundings. I think it's more of a "CHANGE THE CAMERA'S POINT OF VIEW" thing.
I love you.
I love you.
Totally agree... I was a big adventure game fan back in the day, and while I enjoy Telltale's ressurections, something is lacking, and you good sir found it.
I agree they could use some changes in camera angles, but I think Telltale's starting to address their art direction problems. If you compare Sam and Max to the Tales of Monkey Island screenshot, you can see the improvement- there's a lot more style in Tales.
Chad while I agree with the sentiment that Telltale's games do look quite similar, I don't necessarily believe it is purposeful of malicious on Telltales part. If anything, Telltale has consistently listened to their fans and have considerably improved with each iteration of a series it creates.
The thing about Telltale is, despite the fact that they have had such amazing success over the past year or so, they are still a very small gaming studio with limited resources and a limited time frame to release such awesome games. They do quite well considering the limited time and budget they have for each game series.
As for the graphics and animation styles that are similar throughout each game, it is mostly due to the fact that each game uses the same game engine and was designed to work with as many computers as possible to ensure they could get their games out as fast as possible and to a larger audience. If you seriously have an issue with the art direction, take a look at most of the early SCUMM engine games Chad. Each one of the early SCUMM games looks very similar and have many of the same issues you address in Telltale's games.
The Telltale engine Telltale uses is still fairly new and instead of adapting it to work as you have suggested, they have adapted it for easier porting of their PC titles to other platforms. It was smart move on their part at this time but I agree that if they don't change soon, they will eventually fall flat on their faces.
I'm more concerned about them spreading themselves out too thin with all the IP's they are currently juggling.
The thing about Telltale is, despite the fact that they have had such amazing success over the past year or so, they are still a very small gaming studio with limited resources and a limited time frame to release such awesome games. They do quite well considering the limited time and budget they have for each game series.
As for the graphics and animation styles that are similar throughout each game, it is mostly due to the fact that each game uses the same game engine and was designed to work with as many computers as possible to ensure they could get their games out as fast as possible and to a larger audience. If you seriously have an issue with the art direction, take a look at most of the early SCUMM engine games Chad. Each one of the early SCUMM games looks very similar and have many of the same issues you address in Telltale's games.
The Telltale engine Telltale uses is still fairly new and instead of adapting it to work as you have suggested, they have adapted it for easier porting of their PC titles to other platforms. It was smart move on their part at this time but I agree that if they don't change soon, they will eventually fall flat on their faces.
I'm more concerned about them spreading themselves out too thin with all the IP's they are currently juggling.
I can't help but agree., and in fact one of the reasons why I'm apprehensive to touch Tales of Monkey Island is because I absolutely cannot stand the uninspired children's TV show 3D graphics and bland backgrounds. I mean, sure, it looks okay for an episodic game, but there's no real flair. Everything just looks too samey.
Please keep the old lady cliches coming, Chad. You've made my day.
Don't get a bee in your bonnet. Beauty is only skin deep, and you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Also, you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. Yep, that's the long and short of it.
Don't get a bee in your bonnet. Beauty is only skin deep, and you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Also, you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. Yep, that's the long and short of it.
I love this article , but to be fair The Sam and Max games improve with each episode. Start from the beginning of season 1 and when you're done with 2 you will notice some huge improvements. But yea Tell Tale is the shit aren't they? Graphics aside they've been making some of the best titles , adventure games are back people!
Chad, this post needs more Quest for Glory :)
By the way, its not just palette or character size thats an issue. The amount of detail is an issue too. You never see a scene where theres more than 3 characters on screen or more than 3 or 4 objects you can interact with on screen in the Telltale games. I think it might be wise for them just to go back and redo some of the older classic adventure games of Lucasarts in their new engine so they can stretch it in ways they haven't before.
By the way, its not just palette or character size thats an issue. The amount of detail is an issue too. You never see a scene where theres more than 3 characters on screen or more than 3 or 4 objects you can interact with on screen in the Telltale games. I think it might be wise for them just to go back and redo some of the older classic adventure games of Lucasarts in their new engine so they can stretch it in ways they haven't before.
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