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I have zero respect for Cage as a writer, but I enjoyed his games and have to recognize he's at least trying "something different". I'd still pick Uncharted 2 over Heavy Rain any time, but that doesn't change the fact that games like Heavy Rain need to exist.
Games are not gonna die, but this generation has been the first one to feel really stagnant to me. In this respect, Cage is right.
Games are not gonna die, but this generation has been the first one to feel really stagnant to me. In this respect, Cage is right.
I want Cage to spend a year socializing with actual people before talking about emotions and maturity again. Or games doing things different.
I have my games with the choice to not kill people. They're rare, but there.
I have my games with the choice to not kill people. They're rare, but there.
Cage has just become a parody of a games developer at this point. He sits there yelling about how people need to inovate while he uses the oldest story cliches and gameplay that is so far removed from a game that i may as well be watching a C grade movie that i have to press a few remote control buttons now and then to keep it going.
Kinda hard to imagine gaming dying with games selling more than they ever have and with games like Mass Effect 3, which just by being made not entirely perfect pissed off all the people who loved it so much they expected perfection. Also, games like Binding of Isaac sell awesomely and it would seem Adventure games are making a comeback. There might not have been a better time to be a game developer.
That said though, press X to Jason
That said though, press X to Jason
Shouldnt he take his own advice?
If his own games cant even innovate, maybe he shouldnt be the one to be the figure head
If his own games cant even innovate, maybe he shouldnt be the one to be the figure head
Did anyone else imagine Cage's words being said in the voice of Jim's impression of Cage?
But I think what he actually said is pretty meaningless really. All he basically said was that there should be different types of games so people have more choice. No shit, Sherlock.
But I think what he actually said is pretty meaningless really. All he basically said was that there should be different types of games so people have more choice. No shit, Sherlock.
I dunno, really.
Considering most of my favorite innovative games or at least those who try to do something non-mainstream usually get ignored and the least innovative franchises tend to be the ones that sell like hotcakes even years after the initial launch...
But then again it could be temporary...
Considering most of my favorite innovative games or at least those who try to do something non-mainstream usually get ignored and the least innovative franchises tend to be the ones that sell like hotcakes even years after the initial launch...
But then again it could be temporary...
@shinryu - Humor me.
What did Heavy Rain do different besides be a poorly written and glorified point and click adventure?
Telltale Gsmes does it better more consistently and more often than Quantic Dream does.
What did Heavy Rain do different besides be a poorly written and glorified point and click adventure?
Telltale Gsmes does it better more consistently and more often than Quantic Dream does.
I agree with what he's saying. The market crashed in 1983 because games became far too derivative of one another.
It's happening now in ways that were far worse than the pong and pacman clones of yesteryear. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
That said I hope Mr. Cage will be a paragon of his own statements. Heavy Rain didn't do anything new that adventure games of the past haven't already done (besides being "adult"). His new game looks pretty, but will it innovate? We'll see.
It's happening now in ways that were far worse than the pong and pacman clones of yesteryear. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
That said I hope Mr. Cage will be a paragon of his own statements. Heavy Rain didn't do anything new that adventure games of the past haven't already done (besides being "adult"). His new game looks pretty, but will it innovate? We'll see.
I don't want to have a go at the guy. I've yet to see him bring what he calls for but plenty of other games have. Here is hoping he can finally bring what he is calling for.
He's right that games should innovate, but the industry won't die. It's nowhere close to dying. The industry may change or get worse, but it's not going to die. I hate it when people say that.
oh yes, those innovative indie PC games! I just love how innovative they are by copying every classic 8,16-bit popular game genres ever!
Seriously gotta love them classic platformer and samey tower defense and contra and final fantasy look-alikes!
I have yet to see a truly innovative indie game besides Minecraft and Amnesia.
Seriously gotta love them classic platformer and samey tower defense and contra and final fantasy look-alikes!
I have yet to see a truly innovative indie game besides Minecraft and Amnesia.
He's actually right... but he's also stating an obvious point. If games stagnate they will retain some form of audience, but gaming as a whole has always been based on innovation.
...people already have different options. Some of the games I've played are pretty innovative in their own respective genre, so I dont get whats so original about this dude reading the cue card shpiel we've been hearing since psx.
You know, people should make different styles of potato chips. I just think if someone wants doritos, well thats still there and it'll always be successful. But at the same time, what about cheetos or funyuns?
You know, people should make different styles of potato chips. I just think if someone wants doritos, well thats still there and it'll always be successful. But at the same time, what about cheetos or funyuns?
@Jeffrey Warf
What are you talking about? There's plenty of innovative indie games. Braid for example, with it's time control mechanics. And if you think all that game does it let you rewind time you are in error. The mechanic is exponentially deeper than that. You also have Fez with it's 2D/3D perspective switching. There's also Sanctum, the 1st person tower defence game. And there's a little known game I've discovered called Against The Wall with some really cool mechanics. You have to travel up the side of a seemingly infinite wall by moving blocks in and out of the wall thus creating your own path. It turns the platforming itself in to the puzzle, which can be solved in potentially infinite ways. There may be plenty of overrated retro style indie games, but there is a lot of innovation too.
And Minecraft isn't innovative. It's a clone of an older game called Infiniminer. Notch even made Minecraft because they shut the servers for that game down.
What are you talking about? There's plenty of innovative indie games. Braid for example, with it's time control mechanics. And if you think all that game does it let you rewind time you are in error. The mechanic is exponentially deeper than that. You also have Fez with it's 2D/3D perspective switching. There's also Sanctum, the 1st person tower defence game. And there's a little known game I've discovered called Against The Wall with some really cool mechanics. You have to travel up the side of a seemingly infinite wall by moving blocks in and out of the wall thus creating your own path. It turns the platforming itself in to the puzzle, which can be solved in potentially infinite ways. There may be plenty of overrated retro style indie games, but there is a lot of innovation too.
And Minecraft isn't innovative. It's a clone of an older game called Infiniminer. Notch even made Minecraft because they shut the servers for that game down.
Honestly, I enjoyed Heavy Rain, and I agree with his point to a certain extent. However, I feel that he needs to expand the variety of games he plays in order to truly defend his opinion. So many developers are doing brilliant things via independent channels, whether it be via Steam or self-publishing.
Cage: "inovation! Emotions!"
Montoya: "You keep using those words, I don't think they mean what you think they mean.."
Buzzwords will always be bandied about, and pushing the boundaries in terms of mechanics, story telling, presentation, etc is something that should and will happen, what we do not want to lose sight of is what people want. Fun. Glorious fucking fun.
The most innovative game in the world is useless if no one wants to play it, and despite this desire some game devs have to come off as an electronic Socrates, they only hurt themselves and the industry when the experience they want to force you to have is convoluted bullshit, ala heavy Rain.
Remember the core of what your selling: fun. Build on that with your creativity and inovation and the industry will take care of itself.
Montoya: "You keep using those words, I don't think they mean what you think they mean.."
Buzzwords will always be bandied about, and pushing the boundaries in terms of mechanics, story telling, presentation, etc is something that should and will happen, what we do not want to lose sight of is what people want. Fun. Glorious fucking fun.
The most innovative game in the world is useless if no one wants to play it, and despite this desire some game devs have to come off as an electronic Socrates, they only hurt themselves and the industry when the experience they want to force you to have is convoluted bullshit, ala heavy Rain.
Remember the core of what your selling: fun. Build on that with your creativity and inovation and the industry will take care of itself.
Cage often says things that make sense, though they are usually obvious things that most people can see. Unfortunately he expresses his opinion in such an annoying fashion most of the time, so it's difficult to take him seriously. I still really enjoy his games though.
Wait, wait "Innovate or Die?" I've never heard anyone in the game industry say that before! Ever! How innovative of him! This guy...
I agree with him but Heavy Rain wasn't what I want games to be at all. It's a highly-interactive DVD menu. Sure it was interesting, but they even CALLED it an "interactive drama" and it just seemed...a bit off for me. Wasn't bad, but he should really stop thinking he's above gameplay mechanics to eschew his "EMOTIONS"
@Tristrix
Get with the times, man. If you dislike a person, then their opinion on anything is automatically wrong. Internet logic differs greatly from normal logic. However, if someone you like says the exact same thing, then it's OK to agree with them.
Seriously, though, the quote here is kind of meaningless. He's probably partially right, but also partially wrong. That's the trouble with absolutes.
"But I think this industry needs more games like Journey because it's a breath of fresh air; this is necessary in any medium."
Awfully hard to disagree with that, but I'm sure some people will try.
Get with the times, man. If you dislike a person, then their opinion on anything is automatically wrong. Internet logic differs greatly from normal logic. However, if someone you like says the exact same thing, then it's OK to agree with them.
Seriously, though, the quote here is kind of meaningless. He's probably partially right, but also partially wrong. That's the trouble with absolutes.
"But I think this industry needs more games like Journey because it's a breath of fresh air; this is necessary in any medium."
Awfully hard to disagree with that, but I'm sure some people will try.
Say what you want about their games, he's 100% right. I know I don't want to play Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed for the rest of my fucking life. I'll never see what other people see in playing the same fucking game every single fucking year. Vomit.
@pokota
Well i mean, it's not like David Cage called a press conference and gathered everyone around to say "Hey guys, INNOVATION!"
It's an interview. Someone asked him to do it, and asked him a question, and he said "Innovative games are pretty cool." Well of course they fucking are, it IS stating the obvious but it was his answer to the question he was asked.
And of course, no one here is disagreeing with it because it's so obvious that it's not really something anyone can disagree with. However in true internet fashion, we have to find SOMETHING to bitch about, and the low hanging fruit is Cage himself.
Internet.
Well i mean, it's not like David Cage called a press conference and gathered everyone around to say "Hey guys, INNOVATION!"
It's an interview. Someone asked him to do it, and asked him a question, and he said "Innovative games are pretty cool." Well of course they fucking are, it IS stating the obvious but it was his answer to the question he was asked.
And of course, no one here is disagreeing with it because it's so obvious that it's not really something anyone can disagree with. However in true internet fashion, we have to find SOMETHING to bitch about, and the low hanging fruit is Cage himself.
Internet.
I know its cool to hate on Cage for whatever reason but all he does is say basically the same things that the beloved "indie devs" say except he has actually made a few real games with actual stories, derivative (Heavy Rain) and nonsensical (Fahrenheit) as those stories may have been, you can't say they have been done to death in video games.
And yes, David Cage's creations ARE video games. If Visual Novels get a free pass on this there is no reason why his games shouldn't.
And yes, David Cage's creations ARE video games. If Visual Novels get a free pass on this there is no reason why his games shouldn't.
While I agree I feel like he spend to much time evolving the story of games instead of evolving the content
Yep, because the economics totally favor innovative titles and not derivative sequels to popular shooters that sell 7M each year. Total proof that gaming is dying.
Innovation is great, but what support is there for the notion that, if innovation doesn't happen, the industry will "die"?
It's just silly on its face. There are countless media products that have not seen significant innovation in decades, and they do not "die". Many thrive. Action movies have followed the same template for thirty years. Pop music uses the same chord progressions as in the 1960's. Professional football, trashy novels, theme parks -- you name it -- they all continue to rake in money despite seeing only minor iterative changes over decades.
It's just silly on its face. There are countless media products that have not seen significant innovation in decades, and they do not "die". Many thrive. Action movies have followed the same template for thirty years. Pop music uses the same chord progressions as in the 1960's. Professional football, trashy novels, theme parks -- you name it -- they all continue to rake in money despite seeing only minor iterative changes over decades.
Cage is an idiot, at least for his initial statement.. The industries trying to do *too much* to innovate, and all of it is going in awkward directions that rarely have to do with *GAMES*.
Its the video*game* industry, the focus should come back to the games, not how we input with them, what entertainment we'll watch after playing them, or how we receive them into our homes. THATS why the industry is going to die, because it won't be about games anymore.
And while I see thats exactly his point, he also forgets that his games are rarely games, but interactive movies, which really isn't innovative or the right direction either, since they've been trying to do that since the theatrical version of CLUE.
Honestly, from what he said somewhere in the middle of his statement, it sounds like he just wants people to talk to him.. Cage needs a friend :(
Its the video*game* industry, the focus should come back to the games, not how we input with them, what entertainment we'll watch after playing them, or how we receive them into our homes. THATS why the industry is going to die, because it won't be about games anymore.
And while I see thats exactly his point, he also forgets that his games are rarely games, but interactive movies, which really isn't innovative or the right direction either, since they've been trying to do that since the theatrical version of CLUE.
Honestly, from what he said somewhere in the middle of his statement, it sounds like he just wants people to talk to him.. Cage needs a friend :(
I do believe the industry needs to innovate, but not on the same levels as Cage says. He is more interested in innovating the premise (narrative, atmosphere)then the games themselves.
We need to innovate in what we are doing on screen. Doesn't it bother anyone that the last "genre" that was established was Katamari Demacy?
PS: Cage really shouldn't be preaching to the hard working people of this industry on how to make games. The man himself makes "games" that consist largely of QTEs. He has no authority on game innovation.
We need to innovate in what we are doing on screen. Doesn't it bother anyone that the last "genre" that was established was Katamari Demacy?
PS: Cage really shouldn't be preaching to the hard working people of this industry on how to make games. The man himself makes "games" that consist largely of QTEs. He has no authority on game innovation.
Jim's Cage impression is the best.
I liked Heavy Rain for it's atmosphere and the way the gameplay keeps you on your toes, as it were, and I'll probably play Beyond. I didn't like Heavy Rain for the "emotion" so much. And yeah, David Cage can sound, yeah.
He said a reasonably reasonable thing here though!
I liked Heavy Rain for it's atmosphere and the way the gameplay keeps you on your toes, as it were, and I'll probably play Beyond. I didn't like Heavy Rain for the "emotion" so much. And yeah, David Cage can sound, yeah.
He said a reasonably reasonable thing here though!
lol sorry David Cage would rather play Visual Novel games like 5pb science adventure games(Chaos;Head, Steins;Gate, Robotic;Notes) or Telltale games with Sam & Max series(just finished episode 102 last night awesome stuff)
though i might need to try Heavy Rain in the future just to see what's all the fuss about, but with my tons of backlog games i may never ever play that game
though i might need to try Heavy Rain in the future just to see what's all the fuss about, but with my tons of backlog games i may never ever play that game
Cage, you made a couple of fairly but not amazingly successful movie games, you have no idea what the industry as a whole needs to do and you have no idea that it will "die" if it doesn't follow in your footsteps.
We see games that aren't innovative end up wildly successful all the time, and games that are wildly unique fail.
"This industry would definitely benefit from more engaging and unique experiences that encourage interesting and emotional responses. I can't wait for Cage to make a game like that."
Buuuurn. Honestly I liked what he was trying to do with Heavy Rain, though I think his own writing is what held the game back the most.
We see games that aren't innovative end up wildly successful all the time, and games that are wildly unique fail.
"This industry would definitely benefit from more engaging and unique experiences that encourage interesting and emotional responses. I can't wait for Cage to make a game like that."
Buuuurn. Honestly I liked what he was trying to do with Heavy Rain, though I think his own writing is what held the game back the most.
Says the guy who wants to turn video games into movies and whose idea of "gameplay" is Press X To Not Die.
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