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Dave Karraker: There is a big payoff for the PS3 being harder to program for photo

Unless you're living under a rock, or despise Sony, you've been enlightened many times over to the fact that Sony now has its own official blog. What makes this so nice, is that it has become a great resource for tapping into the minds of those who make those nice quotes we like to use here so much at Destructoid. As you'll soon see, we're at it again.

Dave Karraker, the Senior Head of Corporate Communications was kind enough to bless us with one of those insider answers to a question that has been haunting the internet for a few days now: is the PlayStation 3 truly harder to program for, and more specifically -- is it worth it? Well, according to Dave, the PS3 isn't your average gaming console, and thus requires a little more effort on the developer's parts for good reason. You see, the PS3 can do so much, and is loaded with all kinds of nifty features for developers to wrap their heads around. Don't scoff yet, as you weren't expecting the PS3 to be something the next door neighbor's kid could write code for, were you? Oh, and here's one of those quotes we promised you right after this loaded question. Is the PS3 hard to program for?

This is an interesting question and hidden within the question is an enormously complex subject! If the game starts life on PS3, then man-hours per feature or costs related to asset production are comparable with industry norms. For that, you can include Xbox 360 and high-end PC games, and exclude PS2 and Wii. However, since PS3’s Cell processor allows MORE features - better physics, more complex graphical processing, lighting or sound, etc. — there is inevitably going to be more cost in supporting those extra features. It’s not that PS3 is harder to write for, it’s just that you can do more with it.
Don't stop reading now -- there's so much more. Hit the jump, and continue to hear the real story straight from the horse's mouth.
 

Middleware tools like Havok and other specialist graphics tools are now customized to exploit Cell’s SPUs. These mean that developers don’t have to reinvent those particular wheels themselves. Also, PlayStation Edge does some very difficult and performance-critical aspects of the graphics pipeline on the SPUs: geometry processing, animation, compression - delivering performance unachievable on other systems. This is available for free to all developers from SCE. So, given that PS3 can draw more on screen, the assets required to fill that capacity go up, too. This can, but not always, require more people - however depending on the game, much of that extra content can be produced automatically - procedurally in software, not by hand. Compared to PS2, the SPUs are much easier to code for. In PS2 we had some custom chips called VU0 and VU1 which were powerful, but tricky to write for. The SPUs use a more standard programming language.

Now, it’s not without challenges:
1) SPUs are not ‘normal’ processors like the PPU. There is a trade-off between performance and versatility. A Ferrari is not the best car for a visit to Home Depot…

2) If you are porting:
If your game starts on Xbox 360 you will have to re-engineer aspects of the game to run properly on PS3. This means additional effort. Some developers have been complaining about this but I don’t believe we can solve that. Xbox 360 is a different machine with good, but lower powered hardware in a different architecture. Developers have to view them as two different machines not as a common platform.

3) If your game has heavy online use:
XBL provides more and better standard libraries for online gaming to developers. For the same features on PS3, developers have to do some extra work. We’re catching up, but there is a difference.

Ports usually suck anyway, so I don't see that is being much of an issue for gamers. Then again, we don't spend the countless man-hours and money to make it all happen. We just play the games. Now that online use thing? That could be a bit of a problem. I like that Dave is honest enough with us to admit that they have a while before they can hope to match Xbox Live. Still not happy that they built the system from the ground up and admitted that they cause extra work on the developers' part, but such is life. Never mind that they had a few good years to reverse engineer what the Xbox guys were doing, and make improvements on it. That might be considered progress.

Is it safe to assume that everyone is on the same page now? With great power comes great responsibility coding issues to overcome. Much like the PS2 that preceded it, the PS3 promises to make your troubles all worthwhile. We just need to wait for everyone to hit their stride, and get over the extensive learning curve. 








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20 comments | showing # 1 to 20
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infinity's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:04
infinity
blog, eh? i thought that after GIANT ENEMY CRAB and 599 US DOLLARS we had already tapped into their minds enough.

also, isn't it the case that the more you can do with something, the harder it is to make full use of it? it's not like programmers will be able to use all of these alleged new features just as easily as the old ones--just like with anything else that's new, cell will require greater effort to use effectively.
Magesx's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:05
Magesx
Wow, you guys take any chance to write about Sony, don'tcha?
DJDuffy 's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:08
DJDuffy
TOO EASY!!
Milofo's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:11
Milofo
Harder to program for is better?*cough*Sega Saturn*cough*
omegazero's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:16
omegazero
From a programmer's point of view, I personally like the fact that it can do more. Of course, I'm not programming for it. Any programmer would like to be able to do more with less hand coding (e.g. the new libraries Sony provides). The problem is how much you can show a client, or whoever hired you. "Yeah, see, we took 8 months to re-learn how to use a super high-end graphics processor to make the game look this amazing... It looks awesome. Online? Oh uhh.. well... we're limited."

When a game studio looks at what you're going to have in the end-product, I think that online matters a lot more now. It adds a ton of replay value and they know that if their single player lacks the online multiplayer makes up for it (I never played it but Lost Planet comes to mind).

When they ask what they have to show after x months, "Oh yeah, the graphics and audio are completely done, and right now we can connect to Albert in New York and play the single player campaign together. We're also going to add extra content via download for money, or simply update the game if there are complaints."

That sounds a lot more appealing.
Joe Burling's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:17
Joe Burling
So basically... don't worry about getting a PS3 until it's up to speed... and hopefully by then there will be a price drop... sounds good.
DJDuffy 's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:19
DJDuffy
On a related note, I miss crazy Uncle Ken. He would have had something magical to say to make this all better.
DeusPayne's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:19
DeusPayne
A sign of a good development environment is its ease of use in programming. That's 99% of the reason Java is so nice, not because it's the best, but because it has many included libraries. This is what sony claims to be doing with their Havoc and other stuff 'optimized' for the spu. However, their claim is that by doing this it makes it harder. Uh... I don't understand how providing a library can translate to harder. It's harder because they DON'T provide the libraries, the just give you access to the spu's lower level functions, so you can optimize code yourself. Just because you CAN do more, doesn't mean you WILL do more. Sony really needs to learn that more != better. They gotta stop over compensating.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:23
Jim Sterling
Magesx:

Um, yes? We're a gaming site, we write about gaming companies. Last I checked, Sony was one of those.
Adamska's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 19:45
Adamska
The gaming industry expected the PS3 to hit the ground running, but with all system launches, you have to expect some... *looks at calender* Well maybe the PS3 is a late bloomer.

It looks like we get bombarded with a lot of ads and such for other games and products, why not use that money to put into games? It sounds reasonable enough, but I'm not going to complain about a system that I don't own.
jayzn's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 20:03
jayzn
Yknow what? I'm starting to think this is all BS. If the SPUs are really capable of such greatness, wouldn't you think Sony would drop us at least some kind of TECH DEMO that shows the PS3 doing stuff that the 360 cannot replicate????
Tron Knotts's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 20:58
Tron Knotts
This Dave Cracker guy... he's a little biased towards Sony.

Just a little gut feeling.
Churchhills Dog's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 21:12
Churchhills Dog
WTF is so difficult about making what is essentially a high powered, closed system PC for dedicated gaming and make it easy to program for? Every generation Sony, MS feel the need to reinvent the wheel.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 21:29
Wedge
"WTF is so difficult about making what is essentially a high powered, closed system PC for dedicated gaming and make it easy to program for? Every generation Sony, MS feel the need to reinvent the wheel."

What do you think both of the X-Boxes are? Especially the first one, but with where PC's are now, the 360 doesn't deviate much either.
Magesx's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 21:34
Magesx
Shut up, Jim. >:|

YOU WILL ONLY WRITE WHAT I SAY YOU CAN
908peruvian's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2007 23:24
908peruvian
i think all the Cell Processor HYPE will still be around when the Xbox 720 comes out....

"talk talk talk blah blah blah"

ENOUGH!!!
mrsamuel's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/15/2007 02:40
mrsamuel
It really wouldn't surprise me if the PS3 can legitimately do things the 360 can't. The problem is, Sony has chosen an awful time to emphasize that alleged fact.

Since the PS3 launched, multi-platform games look better (even if just slightly) on the 360 on a regular basis. As far as I know, there isn't a single PS3 title out there that's cutting edge in terms of graphics, physics, or whatever. Blaming developers for not making the PS3 the lead platform is a lame excuse.

Basically, as Jack Tretton said, Sony should release software that demonstrates what the PS3 can do. Until then, talking about its superiority does more harm than good.
TheStripe's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/15/2007 10:05
TheStripe
@ Milofo - *cough* N64 *cough cough*
hovercraft's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/15/2007 10:07
hovercraft
This is bullshit propaganda
JayTapp's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/19/2007 07:03
JayTapp
When I you have to pre-process all the triangles data prior to sending it to the RSX (vs do nothing on 360) just to get close performance of the 360. It's not "zomg MORE features". It just plain crappy hardware sorry.
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