I knew I was going to regret posting that other comment. I loathe comment boards, but I was attempting to show some solidarity in saying this DOES happen. It was not a one-shot occasion.

@Radie;

The point is they extend a service past when it's paid, then hold your account hostage until the charges they applied erroneously are paid. Microsoft's Live service has a number of things about it that are nothing but poor customer service with the crowning one being that you have to call the 1-800-MYXBOX number and wade through their horrible phone system simply to stop paying for their service. This is a basic, simple process that should be easily done via online.

This is the same process that AOL has been doing for years, where they make it difficult to cancel the service and take advantage of a confusing system to eke out more money from their subscribers.

Further, it isn't whether or not I don't like the service but the fact that it runs directly in contrary to how any other pay-to-play service would work. Stop paying, stop playing. Microsoft's answer is 'stop paying, keep subscription active, attempt to charge subscriber afterwards and lock account if we're unable to take payment'.

There is nothing about this that is for the subscribers convenience. This is 100% for Microsoft's benefit.

This account of mine that they put on hold had about 1200 Microsoft Points, points that I had paid for. This works out to be about $20 CDN, but honestly .. spending the $15CDN to pay arrears on a service that I hadn't wanted nor could use (not having had an Xbox or 360 at the time the service expired) to access $20 worth of points. These points are now inaccessible to me; they cannot be transferred through the website that's available to US people, nor can the customer (dis)service people that I spoke to transfer them.

So, no I don't like the way they run their service. I don't like the way they setup blocks to the customer to cancel their account, I don't like the way they do not remove credit cards from their system. I don't like the way there is no escalation process when you DO speak with their "customer support" staff.

The point of customer service is to help the customer, not treat them with the same contempt found in your post -- not an attack against you, but your stance is that all of this is the fault of the consumer.

So, yes, my mistake (and freely admitted) is that I didn't stop payment on my account 'The Microsoft Way'.

As for how spoiled YOUR nation is, I have nothing to do with it. If I'm spoiled because I expect a company that I'm supposedly a customer of to treat me with consideration, then I guess I am spoiled.

And thus ends a giant comment that nobody will bother reading.

I suppose perhaps I was only sharing my insight into not being the companies fault. I do not condone their method or even can say that I approve of it. But that is what it is. And that is really the main point.

As I said in the first post (but didnt elaborate on) was that you are certainly right about the customer support. That should be handled much better. No excuse there.

But aside from that, you need to still accept (technically you already did when accepting the EULA) that this is how they do business. NOT READING IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE! Try and guess what would happen if you tried that line in a court of law. And dont ever forget (trust me, they wont let you) that it is still a business. The SOLE purpose of a business is to make money. No company should have to treat its customers in any way. All they should concern themselves with is making money. Naturally treating customers right is a good way to keep them as customers and to keep them putting money in your hands. That is why places have customer support and stuff like that. But it should never be assumed that they owe you that. When you start making assumptions like that, is when you run into problems.

You can never forget that it is US against THEM. It is not a marriage, it is a war. It is like this with every business. I mean really, can you think of a time when you could have exploited a business and chose not too? I would venture that most havent, but even if you did, that is because you care about your moral standing and all that other jazz. A business doesnt have that burden. They care (and rightly so) only about the dollar.

I am not supporting the companies that do stuff like this because for the most part, they will get what they deserve. But I am defending the logic behind it. If a customer is taking their business elsewhere, why make it easier for them? If you walked into a resturant and wasnt happy with the menu would you get all pissed off at the host for not giving you directions to a better resturant? Too often we expect more then we should from places we shouldnt.

As for the cancellation (or lack thereof) of the service and still being charged, well what if you sold your TV or simply didnt use it for a month, would you expect to not have to pay for the cable bill that you never bothered to cancel?

Companies have done this for ages (perhaps an exaggeration, but perhaps not). It is not just AOL and MS. Magazine subscriptions, porn websites (so I hear, lol), many MMO games... anything with a subscription does business like this. I am kind of surprised to see even a ripple about this practice, let alone the uproar.

I am not trying to defend MS, despite what it looks like (hence why I almost always applied my examples to all companies). And I certainly didnt mean to offend andyone that this happened to. I just want to point out that nothing done in these stories here is officially "wrong". Is it smart? Hardly, but it is not WRONG.

@ Gulo... I am very much against the MS system for using Microsoft Points. It is probably my biggest complaint about them. I totally agree and feel for you there. It speaks directly to what I was saying about a business employing tactics to seperate you from your money, but also like I said, it is a war. I "combat" this by only buying points when I am ready to spend them. They have their tactics, we have ours. Regardless, you are right about something... You should have access to those points. I am not sure what the EULA says about it (I am guilty of only reading the parts that I was concerned about and this was not one of them) but you should be able to have access to something you paid for. It is a war, but it should be a fair one where both sides should be expected to follow the rules.

By the way, I totally laughed at your comment about the NATION. I didnt realize you were a cannuck.

@ necrozen... The fact that there is a name for this practice is telling. Why isnt it named "ScrewTheCustomer Tax" (aside from not being catchy). You see what I mean though? Why is it called "Idiot Tax"? Because the people that get it, did not even bother to read what you are agreeing to. I am not saying that I read every EULA, not even close, but I would never have it in me to complain or refute anything that was in it if I got screwed by it when it is right there in black and white for me to read and I chose not to. I will say this once again... just becasue it is long and boring, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOID IT.

@ Radie

And I agree. Commerce can be a "WAR". But I think that even in the battle between the customer and the business there are those who fight fare and those who fight dirty. On the Business side, I would consider this Microsoft stuff dirty. As far as dirty consumer tactics are concerned, I'd say that game piracy is high up there on the list. I suppose it balances out. Still doesn't make either one right.

So I try to research who I'm giving my money to and find out what kind of track record they have.

EEEEVVVVILLLL!!!!!!!!! The will of Christ compels you.