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Excellent post. I don't think it's just the mass commercialization that we have to fear, but rather the advent of the mini game as the dominant genre. Just like how commercialized hip hop has destroyed hip hop's real image, I think these stupid mini games and everything that is being produced so that you can play for a quick 5 minutes will lead to a big shift in game production. Sure, the big ones will still drop, but third parties who don't want to take big risks will instead concentrate on smaller games and concentrate on putting them out quicker, rather than taking time to make something polished.
We're at that turning point in history that music went around in the Nineties. The main product is going to be absolute garbage...commercialized, infested with ads and tainted by the hands of corporations who don't know the first thing about making games.
Or maybe I'm over reacting.
We're at that turning point in history that music went around in the Nineties. The main product is going to be absolute garbage...commercialized, infested with ads and tainted by the hands of corporations who don't know the first thing about making games.
Or maybe I'm over reacting.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't see the WoW crowd giving up their feel-good candy for casual, free games. It seems like the sort of diversion that might be added to the plate out of boredom, but never replacing the hardcore experience. I've bought Brain Age, Big Brain Academy, and Nintendogs, yet those were simply added to my game stack, an addition to the regular games I purchase. I can't envision a world where hardcore games are completely taken over by casual ones.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't see the WoW crowd giving up their feel-good candy for casual, free games. It seems like the sort of diversion that might be added to the plate out of boredom, but never replacing the hardcore experience. I've bought Brain Age, Big Brain Academy, and Nintendogs, yet those were simply added to my game stack, an addition to the regular games I purchase. I can't envision a world where hardcore games are completely taken over by casual ones.
Er...what's with the massive outbreak of double-posts recently? (And apologies if this is yet another one.)
Er...what's with the massive outbreak of double-posts recently? (And apologies if this is yet another one.)
I don't really consider free web-based games quite the same thing as console based stuff like Brain Age, Wii Sports, or Wario Ware. The developers making PopCap style games aren't typically the ones making larger "epic" games... so why would one take away from the other?
I can already see a poser gamer community form, where every time something about games is said in the media, we'll all do the 'headache guy' thing.
I don't like this new market. If people want to be gamers, fine, It's never been easier to become a gamer. But if the only console you own is a Wii, and you think that Mario guy is cool, you're not really a gamer.
I think that people will get the wrong idea about our culture from marketing like this. I am sure we'll see a decline in hardcore games, and a garbage ton more party games.
I don't like this new market. If people want to be gamers, fine, It's never been easier to become a gamer. But if the only console you own is a Wii, and you think that Mario guy is cool, you're not really a gamer.
I think that people will get the wrong idea about our culture from marketing like this. I am sure we'll see a decline in hardcore games, and a garbage ton more party games.
"Most of us are no longer teenagers circa 1990...."
after reading that paragraph, i'm totally convinced that i can get my fiance to let me marry you as well. where were you during that time of my life, we could have been great together. [:
sometimes your truths are almost to close for comfort, but then i realize that i don't really think you could be too close. [;
after reading that paragraph, i'm totally convinced that i can get my fiance to let me marry you as well. where were you during that time of my life, we could have been great together. [:
sometimes your truths are almost to close for comfort, but then i realize that i don't really think you could be too close. [;
As long as hardcore games continue to sell, publishers will continue to make them along with casual games. If there's a demand for it, it'll get filled. There'll just a wider variety of titles on the shelves.
Sometimes it feels like we overgloss things from the past though. In the 90's, we had tons of games that we now call classic. From 2000+, I can't even name 20 titles out the top of my head that were classic PC games, for instance. And yes, the DC had a couple of great games, the PS1 did too, the PS2 had a couple more, the xbox had 3 or 4, etc. The rest was all either crap or mediocre stuff.
But look at this year: we have some great AAA titles coming. Not countless, but still quite a few. There are still only like 5 good pc-games a year. If you are not into JRPG, the last 1-2 years didn't have THAT many great ps2 titles either.
With an expanding game industry, we may see a bit of an initial slump with the relocation of resources towards the casual sector. But it might pay off if they make so much money that they can fund indie games and other hardcore games as well. If the companies would care, of course...
But look at this year: we have some great AAA titles coming. Not countless, but still quite a few. There are still only like 5 good pc-games a year. If you are not into JRPG, the last 1-2 years didn't have THAT many great ps2 titles either.
With an expanding game industry, we may see a bit of an initial slump with the relocation of resources towards the casual sector. But it might pay off if they make so much money that they can fund indie games and other hardcore games as well. If the companies would care, of course...
@ Mxyzptlk -
the problem is that casual games would bring in much more money to publishers than hardcore titles. I can see a lot of big companies (you know, the ones with all the money that make stuff like Bioshock) putting hardcore games on hold for the next Party Game Bullshit #8.
Remember the story about Inafune ditching Dead Rising 2 in favor of more mainstream stuff?
the problem is that casual games would bring in much more money to publishers than hardcore titles. I can see a lot of big companies (you know, the ones with all the money that make stuff like Bioshock) putting hardcore games on hold for the next Party Game Bullshit #8.
Remember the story about Inafune ditching Dead Rising 2 in favor of more mainstream stuff?
Well I had a great article written about this and then realized that I had gone off topic so luckily you all will be spared my rant that has nothing to do with this topic.
I think in the beginning this watch-to-play scheme will only work for the basic browser games. Serious games for the consoles or PC that use the same philosophy will not work, as the gamers that the company's are targeting, will not put up with it.
In the end, we might see some serious games use it, mostly online-only games, but I'm not sure if this is as serious as we are making it out to be.
I think in the beginning this watch-to-play scheme will only work for the basic browser games. Serious games for the consoles or PC that use the same philosophy will not work, as the gamers that the company's are targeting, will not put up with it.
In the end, we might see some serious games use it, mostly online-only games, but I'm not sure if this is as serious as we are making it out to be.
weird one of my posts didn't post after it said it did. let try this again. what game is the picture from?
oh, i agree leigh, cultural impact has a way of being widespread rather than localized, but just the fact that you hit my highschool years on the head almost in order scared me a little. if you would have quoted any part of henry rollins' "i know you" from his boxed life spoken word album i would have declared us soul mates.
i'm not trying to creep you out. i'm a nice guy really, it was just one of those moments that makes you really feel retrospective and confused.
oh, i agree leigh, cultural impact has a way of being widespread rather than localized, but just the fact that you hit my highschool years on the head almost in order scared me a little. if you would have quoted any part of henry rollins' "i know you" from his boxed life spoken word album i would have declared us soul mates.
i'm not trying to creep you out. i'm a nice guy really, it was just one of those moments that makes you really feel retrospective and confused.
Ugh, don't get me started on that "Little Deviants" campaign...
Hey kids! Don't conform with those losers! Conform with us! Our cars are square! Remember, if you didn't blow your entire college fund on it, you didn't buy a big enough tailfin!
Lame.
Hey kids! Don't conform with those losers! Conform with us! Our cars are square! Remember, if you didn't blow your entire college fund on it, you didn't buy a big enough tailfin!
Lame.
I'm not too worried about casual games. I fucking hate them yeah, but for good reason. Hardcore gaming isn't "ultra violent Doom 9" or whatever the hell was said earlier, but in general, games that require actual skill. Take StarCraft for instance. A casual gamer would buy this game thinking it's too hard. Once they go online, it'll be even harder. They'll be getting owned non-stop. The core difference between "hardcore" and "casual" is that the casual gamer would simply give up saying that the game is too hard and people who play it are all a bunch of geeks. The hardcore gamer may find it hard, but unlike the casual gamer, the hardcore gamer adapts rather than giving up and going back to Cooking Mama for instance.
Casual gamers refuse to learn anything new. When seeing a game that uses a fuckton of buttons on their gaming pad, they're too intimidated to even bother with it. They'd rather play a simple game requiring no learning curve or tutorials.
Casual gamers are also amused by simple mechanics. They don't care if they're playing a baseless mini-game over and over, they find it amazing given the fact that they lack true gaming experience.
But isn't this all to familiar? Yes, they're n00bs, but everyone was once a n00b too. These mini-games are not eternal. Even casual gamers will get bored, and once they are, they'll pick up a hardcore game that they've been hearing about on the web, or through friends, or anywhere else. Who knows?
This of course is simply the optimistic view that casual gamers will simply become more experienced, however, it's perfectly possible that the mass commercialization and mass ignorance scenario occurs. After all, how many kiddies do you know that started with nu metal and ended up with pop and oldies thinking that it's "more mature?"
Casual gamers refuse to learn anything new. When seeing a game that uses a fuckton of buttons on their gaming pad, they're too intimidated to even bother with it. They'd rather play a simple game requiring no learning curve or tutorials.
Casual gamers are also amused by simple mechanics. They don't care if they're playing a baseless mini-game over and over, they find it amazing given the fact that they lack true gaming experience.
But isn't this all to familiar? Yes, they're n00bs, but everyone was once a n00b too. These mini-games are not eternal. Even casual gamers will get bored, and once they are, they'll pick up a hardcore game that they've been hearing about on the web, or through friends, or anywhere else. Who knows?
This of course is simply the optimistic view that casual gamers will simply become more experienced, however, it's perfectly possible that the mass commercialization and mass ignorance scenario occurs. After all, how many kiddies do you know that started with nu metal and ended up with pop and oldies thinking that it's "more mature?"
@ Edarios:
But why wouldn't publishers make both? You don't need a huge team to make the average casual game, and I don't see EA or Ubisoft telling the Madden or Prince of Persia teams "okay, stop what you're doing and churn out some mini-game compilations." They'd get smaller, less experienced teams work on the casual games and let everyone else continue to do what they do. And with the money they make from the casual games, they'll be able to make more of both types.
The casual game doomsday scenario a lot of people are worried about just doesn't seem at all logical to me. No other form of popular media has had a similar problem. Shitty horror movies and blockbuster special effects films make the most money at the box office, but that doesn't stop the studios from continuing to make art house flicks or romantic comedies.
But why wouldn't publishers make both? You don't need a huge team to make the average casual game, and I don't see EA or Ubisoft telling the Madden or Prince of Persia teams "okay, stop what you're doing and churn out some mini-game compilations." They'd get smaller, less experienced teams work on the casual games and let everyone else continue to do what they do. And with the money they make from the casual games, they'll be able to make more of both types.
The casual game doomsday scenario a lot of people are worried about just doesn't seem at all logical to me. No other form of popular media has had a similar problem. Shitty horror movies and blockbuster special effects films make the most money at the box office, but that doesn't stop the studios from continuing to make art house flicks or romantic comedies.
after scaring leigh [sorry again], and more generally avoiding posting something of value, i'm going to try and be usefull.
this whole casual gamer debate is definitely an interesting topic, but as much as i side with Shenocide and his ideas I still see some reason to worry about leigh's thoughts on the matter.
if game companies see how much money can be made from small underdeveloped mini-type games, what is to keep them from severely limiting their development of more complete games. granted there is too much of a user base for high profile games, but what is to keep this train of thought from destroying the hopes of a real promising game just because the hype train behind it doesn't make it seem like a AAA title or instantly fit it into this casual gamer market strategy.
that has always been my biggest complaint about any industry. when things begin to happen that could lead to a stagnation of innovation, we see things with possible promise get looked over for more of the same old thing. now granted not every independent idea is a good one, but i would hate to see even one good one never get made.
this whole casual gamer debate is definitely an interesting topic, but as much as i side with Shenocide and his ideas I still see some reason to worry about leigh's thoughts on the matter.
if game companies see how much money can be made from small underdeveloped mini-type games, what is to keep them from severely limiting their development of more complete games. granted there is too much of a user base for high profile games, but what is to keep this train of thought from destroying the hopes of a real promising game just because the hype train behind it doesn't make it seem like a AAA title or instantly fit it into this casual gamer market strategy.
that has always been my biggest complaint about any industry. when things begin to happen that could lead to a stagnation of innovation, we see things with possible promise get looked over for more of the same old thing. now granted not every independent idea is a good one, but i would hate to see even one good one never get made.
@mxyzptlk: your right, but while there will always be more madden, what it to keep them from just going were the money is. madden is where the money is so it almost fits into the same category as the casual game area.
i agree that i don't think this is a problem of doomsday proportions, but i feel this is something to be aware of so that the train can be stopped before a full-on derailment. [metaphorically of course.]
i agree that i don't think this is a problem of doomsday proportions, but i feel this is something to be aware of so that the train can be stopped before a full-on derailment. [metaphorically of course.]
Maybe this new era is a wakeup call to some of us who've spent way too much time and money on video games in general...
I've become totally casual, sneaking in a few quick levels of Mario 2 on my Wii here and there. With the Wii's virtual console, I've realized that it's never been the "newest and most advanced" games that were keeping me interested. It was simply the fact that when I had absolutely nothing to do, I could jump into a game and kill a bit of time. The problem with games like Final Fantasy XII is that those bored few hours turned into a 100+ hour over a few weeks "waste of time".
For me, I know better and I stay away from games that are just too long and involved (pretty much anything on the last couple of generations.) Sure there will be exceptions such as Metroid on Wii and Mario Galaxy, but I could care less about the rest.
I've become totally casual, sneaking in a few quick levels of Mario 2 on my Wii here and there. With the Wii's virtual console, I've realized that it's never been the "newest and most advanced" games that were keeping me interested. It was simply the fact that when I had absolutely nothing to do, I could jump into a game and kill a bit of time. The problem with games like Final Fantasy XII is that those bored few hours turned into a 100+ hour over a few weeks "waste of time".
For me, I know better and I stay away from games that are just too long and involved (pretty much anything on the last couple of generations.) Sure there will be exceptions such as Metroid on Wii and Mario Galaxy, but I could care less about the rest.
I think that we should welcome casual games. Then they can become the equivalent to public service broadcasting. Take Channel 4 in the UK. Something like Big Brother is a total wankfest and not watched by anyone with an IQ equivalent to their shoe size, but then the money from this is ploughed into great, niche stuff like Modern Toss, Nathan barley or Fonejacker.
You've got to give a little to get a little people and casual/mini games seem to be the way. You don't have to watch Big Brother so why buy Mario Super Hits on Princess Peach's Turbo Pussy Lips?
You've got to give a little to get a little people and casual/mini games seem to be the way. You don't have to watch Big Brother so why buy Mario Super Hits on Princess Peach's Turbo Pussy Lips?
all that writing and i left out one important thing [that subsequently got mentioned above]
casual games are needed. my life, sadly, keeps me from being able to sit down for long play sessions. so sometimes being able to play a quick level or mini game and getting back to business is great. i'm still worried about what i mentioned before.
casual games are needed. my life, sadly, keeps me from being able to sit down for long play sessions. so sometimes being able to play a quick level or mini game and getting back to business is great. i'm still worried about what i mentioned before.
evidence for concern (and i said concern, i'm not predicting doomsday) can be found at Nintendo's recent keynote from this E3. they spent most of their time boasting about themselves (and they have every right to, i guess) and showing off Wii Fit. the more "hardcore" games that were less touched on were Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime 3 (slight exception), and Mario Kart. now seriously, when was the last time Nintendo made a new IP that wasn't some casual game? they have been rehashing the same characters and franchises for years. now, they may even be focusing on them less. what if Mario Galaxy were to come out, and we realize that they dumbed down the gameplay to have even more mass appeal? it's things like this that should be of concern. if Nintendo is successful with it, then Sony and Microsoft may follow suit.
to the comments about casual games being like the movie industry's mindless adventures... we already have those in gaming. they are the movie tie-ins and plethora of crappy games. if piracy has taught me anything, it's that there are A LOT of shitty games out there. i just don't want a flood of casual games to flood the market and make it 10x worse.
to the comments about casual games being like the movie industry's mindless adventures... we already have those in gaming. they are the movie tie-ins and plethora of crappy games. if piracy has taught me anything, it's that there are A LOT of shitty games out there. i just don't want a flood of casual games to flood the market and make it 10x worse.
Wow, Edarios, that's pretty ignorant of you to say. So, since I think Mario's a cool guy, I'm not a gamer, despite having played games since Super Mario Bros.? Interesting. I even own a Wii, so I fit your "not a gamer" even better. Yet I've played and beaten countless amounts of NES and SNES games. I'm sorry, but Mario isn't the symbol of casual. He leans more towards the hardcore side, despite his mini-game endeavors.
On to the topic at hand. I really don't see casual gaming as the end of hardcore gaming. All of the hardcore gamers feel that companies will shift their focus so they won't make games for them anymore, but for me, most of their focus isn't on me anyways. Let me explain. I've noticed a large variety of first and third person shooters coming out recently, as well as rts'. I hate these kind of games, and may play one once in a blue moon. So, what exactly should I do. Oh wait, there's these three titles that aren't in the aforementioned genres, but their appeal sports and racing titles. Excellent. Now, I'm exaggerating just a tad, like many who fear this whole casual nonsense, but it still holds somewhat true for me. There's not a wide selection of gaming that really interests me lately. Hey, at least those FPS crowds will have lots to play the upcoming months.
On to the topic at hand. I really don't see casual gaming as the end of hardcore gaming. All of the hardcore gamers feel that companies will shift their focus so they won't make games for them anymore, but for me, most of their focus isn't on me anyways. Let me explain. I've noticed a large variety of first and third person shooters coming out recently, as well as rts'. I hate these kind of games, and may play one once in a blue moon. So, what exactly should I do. Oh wait, there's these three titles that aren't in the aforementioned genres, but their appeal sports and racing titles. Excellent. Now, I'm exaggerating just a tad, like many who fear this whole casual nonsense, but it still holds somewhat true for me. There's not a wide selection of gaming that really interests me lately. Hey, at least those FPS crowds will have lots to play the upcoming months.
that was 6 years ago. they already made a sequel, and i wouldn't be surprised if another one is on the way. face it, even Sony is responsible for more new IPs than Nintendo.
companies will always match whatever the demand is; it's an industry. even if you think there is a mounting sea change, the group of gamers who pay to play the epics aren't going anywhere.
Honestly, I'm seeing a side to this that many people are missing. I imagine a sort of butterfly effect that eventually leads to higher standards for "hardcore" games (by which I mean the traditional, non-casual kind that we all play 'round these parts).
Think of it this way: publishers are naturally risk-averse, because - to quote a recent GI article - virtually every game they pick up is a really slim bet. It's in every company's best interest to invest in a sure thing, so it's reasonable to expect that they'll begin putting more money into advergames and casual stuff that appeals to a broader market. My employer is in such a deep financial hole that they basically have no choice but to follow this route in order to avoid bankruptcy.
By extension, this means that the traditional games we love will have to be FREAKING AWESOME for a publisher to even notice it, let alone start pumping money into it. Mediocre crap just won't cut it anymore. Every game that enters business development, no matter how original or unique, will have to blow everyone away if it hopes to see a commercial release. So to that end, we may see fewer games we like, but their overall quality could be much higher. I'm all about raising development standards; it can only push people like me further in our quest to exceed expectations, and I'm beginning to learn how to thrive off that pressure.
On the other hand, quirky breakout titles like Katamari or what-have-you will also become less commonplace. But the steady growth of the indie scene, coupled with the reduced financial risk of online distribution in the form of Steam and GameTap, could mean that there's always somewhere to turn for obscure works of genius.
I may be overly optimistic here; this is kind of a best-case scenario, and the truth is more likely to fall somewhere in between my predictions and the "OMG GAMEZ ARE TEH DEAD 4EVA!!" doomsday ranting of the old-school types who fear change.
Think of it this way: publishers are naturally risk-averse, because - to quote a recent GI article - virtually every game they pick up is a really slim bet. It's in every company's best interest to invest in a sure thing, so it's reasonable to expect that they'll begin putting more money into advergames and casual stuff that appeals to a broader market. My employer is in such a deep financial hole that they basically have no choice but to follow this route in order to avoid bankruptcy.
By extension, this means that the traditional games we love will have to be FREAKING AWESOME for a publisher to even notice it, let alone start pumping money into it. Mediocre crap just won't cut it anymore. Every game that enters business development, no matter how original or unique, will have to blow everyone away if it hopes to see a commercial release. So to that end, we may see fewer games we like, but their overall quality could be much higher. I'm all about raising development standards; it can only push people like me further in our quest to exceed expectations, and I'm beginning to learn how to thrive off that pressure.
On the other hand, quirky breakout titles like Katamari or what-have-you will also become less commonplace. But the steady growth of the indie scene, coupled with the reduced financial risk of online distribution in the form of Steam and GameTap, could mean that there's always somewhere to turn for obscure works of genius.
I may be overly optimistic here; this is kind of a best-case scenario, and the truth is more likely to fall somewhere in between my predictions and the "OMG GAMEZ ARE TEH DEAD 4EVA!!" doomsday ranting of the old-school types who fear change.
@Shenocide
I want to agree, buddy, I really do, but we'll just use my mom for an example here. She wants a Wii, because she hasn't played a game console since the Super Nintendo. She is not on board with 12 button controllers and dual analog sticks. She tried to play Halo once and ran around shooting straight into the sky. Theses are the people who the gaming companies are targeting, and they're not "n00bs," they are people who have no interest in gaming beyond things they don't have to put thought into. They will never learn to play complicated games because games don't mean anything.
And as the market expands to accommodate these people, I worry that money and time that could be put toward developing good games with deep gameplay and story elements will be put aside to develop "Mom Happy Two-Button Jamboree 12."
Until I hear official word of KOTOR 3 being developed, all hope is lost. SERIOUSLY, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BIOWARE OR OBSIDIAN BUT SOMEBODY BETTER MAKE THE GODDAMN GAME AND MAKE IT GOOD.
I want to agree, buddy, I really do, but we'll just use my mom for an example here. She wants a Wii, because she hasn't played a game console since the Super Nintendo. She is not on board with 12 button controllers and dual analog sticks. She tried to play Halo once and ran around shooting straight into the sky. Theses are the people who the gaming companies are targeting, and they're not "n00bs," they are people who have no interest in gaming beyond things they don't have to put thought into. They will never learn to play complicated games because games don't mean anything.
And as the market expands to accommodate these people, I worry that money and time that could be put toward developing good games with deep gameplay and story elements will be put aside to develop "Mom Happy Two-Button Jamboree 12."
Until I hear official word of KOTOR 3 being developed, all hope is lost. SERIOUSLY, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BIOWARE OR OBSIDIAN BUT SOMEBODY BETTER MAKE THE GODDAMN GAME AND MAKE IT GOOD.
Well, people said the same about the movie industry. And they are still funding small, more indie projects even if they make another Rush Hour movie to fund it. Not that people actually watch those small movies...
It may sound elitist, but since "casual" is synonymous with "mass market," lets look at its effects in other forms of entertainment.
Movies: Hollywood mainly produces drek for the mass media. Their big advantage is that it is possible to create a quality movie for not much money.
Music:Top 40 radio. Need I say more?
Books:Having worked in a bookstore, what sells best is the type of Clancy, Patterson, and Cornwell crap that can be churned out by anyone with the formula in a month or two.
Expansion of a market always comes with benefits and detriments, and video games are no different. I definitely see the rise of a mass-market, largely crap video game industry that is hopefully countered by independent game companies that are able to use the technology(as it becomes cheaper) to make quality games.
That's my two cents.
Movies: Hollywood mainly produces drek for the mass media. Their big advantage is that it is possible to create a quality movie for not much money.
Music:Top 40 radio. Need I say more?
Books:Having worked in a bookstore, what sells best is the type of Clancy, Patterson, and Cornwell crap that can be churned out by anyone with the formula in a month or two.
Expansion of a market always comes with benefits and detriments, and video games are no different. I definitely see the rise of a mass-market, largely crap video game industry that is hopefully countered by independent game companies that are able to use the technology(as it becomes cheaper) to make quality games.
That's my two cents.
That bit about the "angst" strikes true for me somewhat. Although too young to be in the atari/NES generation of gamers, I teethed on my SNES controller and grew up on the wave of N64 games that was perfect for the time.
All the while it was clear that such activites were not in the mainstream. News reporters pronounce "Nintendo" like it was some exotic cullinary ingredient, only mentioning it when they were exclaiming the death of some kid as it related to video games. Every other week some hack psychologist or politician came on T.V. and told me I was statistically less intelligent, more violent, and easily influenced, while all I could do was grimace and bear it.
I feel as if the mainstream doesn't deserve to enjoy our medium. Their invasion of our passtime perhaps does not mean the end of hardcore games, but I feel it will certainly cheapen and debase it. Want to recover health? Buy a Coke from the machine in every other room! Clothes for your female avatar in an MMO? Buy from Ye Olde JC Penny!
All the while it was clear that such activites were not in the mainstream. News reporters pronounce "Nintendo" like it was some exotic cullinary ingredient, only mentioning it when they were exclaiming the death of some kid as it related to video games. Every other week some hack psychologist or politician came on T.V. and told me I was statistically less intelligent, more violent, and easily influenced, while all I could do was grimace and bear it.
I feel as if the mainstream doesn't deserve to enjoy our medium. Their invasion of our passtime perhaps does not mean the end of hardcore games, but I feel it will certainly cheapen and debase it. Want to recover health? Buy a Coke from the machine in every other room! Clothes for your female avatar in an MMO? Buy from Ye Olde JC Penny!
Game companies...heh.
Sorry my boys, but if the massive money being made in the current gaming scene is any indication, I say there are more than enough non-casual gamers out there with enough non-casual money.
If game companies decide to focus more on casual, then they won't "abandon" us. They will simply break and other people and organizations shall rise to provide us with *our* type of games.
The only thing to truly fear here, is whether gaming could become fractured into casual and not camps, both with 'irreconcilable' differences.
And that mah friends would suck ass.
Sorry my boys, but if the massive money being made in the current gaming scene is any indication, I say there are more than enough non-casual gamers out there with enough non-casual money.
If game companies decide to focus more on casual, then they won't "abandon" us. They will simply break and other people and organizations shall rise to provide us with *our* type of games.
The only thing to truly fear here, is whether gaming could become fractured into casual and not camps, both with 'irreconcilable' differences.
And that mah friends would suck ass.
First off I would like to thank dictionary.com for allowing me to understand all of Leigh's big words. My IQ has jumped a few points from the last story I read. Now to the topic. I don;t think the "pop cap" type of games are anything more than all the cheap games you find at the grocery store cash register, just digitized. They gained popularity because Timmy went to grandma's an hooked up that new fangled internet off'a that AOL disk she got in the mail and found out she could pass her entire day with other people like her. Now I am completely aware that this is an over-generalization, but that is how I see it. No big deal, let 'em have there fun. EA will try to make a quick buck, end of story.
Side note: I just saw Leigh's myspace page and ZOMG she is HAWT!!!
p.s. I didn't spell check, sry in advance.
Side note: I just saw Leigh's myspace page and ZOMG she is HAWT!!!
p.s. I didn't spell check, sry in advance.
I think this is all a huge overreaction. My mind is actually so blown by how huge people's overreactions have been, in general, I don't even know where to begin. We have no reason to believe that anything bad is going to come from this, in the long run. Casual gaming may well be a passing fad. Even if it's not, it is NOT a bad thing. In a time where people are demonizing gaming more and more, we should be getting down on our unattractive knees and thanking Miyamoto that gaming has put on its good suit, stopped swearing and smoking pot, and decided to charm our proverbial parents before taking us out for a good, long night of backseat fucking. (Damn, that was a long sentence.)
Casual gaming helps our image and it helps bring new gamers into the fold. I mean, they're not ALL going to stop gaming after Wii Sports. People need to stop being so alarmist and stop panicking until there's something to panic about. Just keep buying the "non-casual" games and relax.
Casual gaming helps our image and it helps bring new gamers into the fold. I mean, they're not ALL going to stop gaming after Wii Sports. People need to stop being so alarmist and stop panicking until there's something to panic about. Just keep buying the "non-casual" games and relax.
In order for games to be even more hardcore, every game ever published should be in esperanto. If you are hardcore enough to play, your hardcore enough to learn the language. Otherwise GTFO NOOB.
Or maybe employees at the gamestop can implement a system that verifies that you do indeed live in your moms basement and have the requisite 100+ hours a week to sink into gaming before they sell you anything. As an added bonus, when you buy a new game you will have your pants pulled down and beaten with a paddle because you are new to the game you are buying and clearly not fit to play it.
Im certain that the casual gamer can use a Final Fantasy game as a bridge between casual and hardcore. You start by pushing one button for two minutes in a minigame and end by pushing one button for 100 hours.
Or maybe employees at the gamestop can implement a system that verifies that you do indeed live in your moms basement and have the requisite 100+ hours a week to sink into gaming before they sell you anything. As an added bonus, when you buy a new game you will have your pants pulled down and beaten with a paddle because you are new to the game you are buying and clearly not fit to play it.
Im certain that the casual gamer can use a Final Fantasy game as a bridge between casual and hardcore. You start by pushing one button for two minutes in a minigame and end by pushing one button for 100 hours.
man i hope LordRegulus is right.
oh and ritalin, as much as i love esperanto, i'm not really keen to learn another language just for the sake of a video game. unless that game doesn't really require reading, that way i can enjoy the language, but not be required to know what is going on.
oh and ritalin, as much as i love esperanto, i'm not really keen to learn another language just for the sake of a video game. unless that game doesn't really require reading, that way i can enjoy the language, but not be required to know what is going on.
I don't see why everyone finds the casual gaming scene so threatening. Casual by and large are the minority when it comes to console gaming because of price tags. Hardcore won't vanish and it definitely won't dissipate much in the future. I know people are scared about Nintendo's E3 conference and WiiFit, but everybody just needs to calm down and think for a bit.
The videogame industry is bigger than the film industry, and that's because of hardcore gamers not the new and feared casual gamer. There is plenty of money to be made off of "hardcore" games and they know it. Casual games aren't even close to a majority or even a large portion of the market, and even the Wii has only about 15 I think. So just relax buy the games you like and stop trying to segregate gamers.
In the end I think it'll be this anti-casual gamer crowd to ruin games if anybody is going to do it. If you like playing games play games. Honestly why are gamers trying so hard to separate themselves from people just getting into gaming instead of trying to get them in deeper?
The videogame industry is bigger than the film industry, and that's because of hardcore gamers not the new and feared casual gamer. There is plenty of money to be made off of "hardcore" games and they know it. Casual games aren't even close to a majority or even a large portion of the market, and even the Wii has only about 15 I think. So just relax buy the games you like and stop trying to segregate gamers.
In the end I think it'll be this anti-casual gamer crowd to ruin games if anybody is going to do it. If you like playing games play games. Honestly why are gamers trying so hard to separate themselves from people just getting into gaming instead of trying to get them in deeper?
Concern that the growth of casual games might eventually lead to the destruction of traditional gaming feels, just a bit, like the film industry feeling terrified that television was going to eclipse their own industry. Which, of course, is exactly how they felt at the time. And maybe it shook things up a bit -- at the time -- but look at it now, all these years later. Television and film are still coexisting.
So some money may get dropped into web-based freebie games. So some more money might get dropped into Wii-based wiggle games that have zero depth but are easy to learn and you can teach your mom to play. The market is there now, so it'd be foolish *not* to put some investment into trying to keep it alive. But none of that will erase the market that already exists. It just means two different markets. Sort of like there's a market in hollywood for big, dumb, action films, just as there is for the small, quiet, quirky, indie-flicks.
Mind you, this might be a bad comparison depending on if you see casual gaming as the action film or the indie-flick.
From the advertising standpoint, lets all face facts, this is going to be a given in our games from this point forward. No escaping it. But, if you were an advertising, would you rather your message broadcast to the casual gamer who plays a PopCap game for fifteen or twenty minutes online, or the guy who's spending three hours trucking through an online match of Rainbow Six: Vegas?
So some money may get dropped into web-based freebie games. So some more money might get dropped into Wii-based wiggle games that have zero depth but are easy to learn and you can teach your mom to play. The market is there now, so it'd be foolish *not* to put some investment into trying to keep it alive. But none of that will erase the market that already exists. It just means two different markets. Sort of like there's a market in hollywood for big, dumb, action films, just as there is for the small, quiet, quirky, indie-flicks.
Mind you, this might be a bad comparison depending on if you see casual gaming as the action film or the indie-flick.
From the advertising standpoint, lets all face facts, this is going to be a given in our games from this point forward. No escaping it. But, if you were an advertising, would you rather your message broadcast to the casual gamer who plays a PopCap game for fifteen or twenty minutes online, or the guy who's spending three hours trucking through an online match of Rainbow Six: Vegas?
I wouldn't worry too much. One day the companies will realize ads in our much beloved hardcore games don't do them any good at all and pull out of that market. And we'll be left playing our Gears of War and WoW in peace while the "casuals" (an ugly term I'm sorry) have to deal with Dell and Pepsi ads on their spinning puzzle balls.
@ Sharpless: Your mind is so bluwn? I think you may be overreacting.
Also, I agree with Leigh in her hopes that LordRegulus is right.
Also, I agree with Leigh in her hopes that LordRegulus is right.
@Leigh
I only have an account because everyone I work with has one, I don't go on there much but I'll certainly add you.
I only have an account because everyone I work with has one, I don't go on there much but I'll certainly add you.
I wonder if I can get away with just posting a link to my blog-responce to Lewzr's original article.. because it's basically what I have to say on the issue. Although, it was pretty late last night when I wrote it, so who knows how well it came out.
I wonder if I can get away with just posting a link to my blog-responce to Lewzr's original article.. because it's basically what I have to say on the issue. Although, it was pretty late last night when I wrote it, so who knows how well it came out.
We have three historical models to use in judging the current trend:
1.) The gaming model. We shouldn't forget that "gaming for the masses" effect has occurred already in history: I can imagine there was similar sentiment in the early 80's amongst old-school PC users (who were actually building and programming their own machines) when personal game consoles emerged. The elite world of computer programming being invaded by the likes of Intellivision and Atari was sure to have brought out the heralds of doom for the future of personal computing.
2.) The Television Model. Hey, do you remember when old-man Broadcast was cock-of-the-walk down Television Street? He was the best at everything he did... and suddenly those hoodlums in the Cable gang start pushing in on his territory. The audacity of these low-budget low-lives, sullying the art of televised vision! Who's even heard of a "niche audience?" Television will forever suffer from the insidious influence of Cable (except for HBO, or course... we'll always pay a subscription free for better television!).
The Internet Model: The internet was so much cooler when it wasn't the internet. I remember, in 1986, I went onto a BBC and wrote a message to someone in Sweden. IN SWEDEN! That was like A THOUSAND miles away! And I was so much cooler than all the other six-year-olds who hadn't spoken to someone in Sweden. But not as cool as I would be in 1989 when I was the only 9-year-old to download EGA illustrations from Prodigy. Definitely still cooler in 1991; f**k those AOL punks and their chat rooms, *I* had my Winsock connection to the REAL internet. You know, the one with PORN. What? AOL has a browser? Still... they have NO IDEA whats going on. They'll be stuck with AOL's web filters FOREVER, while I'm cool enough to roam the digital jungle at my whim. They'll never use the internet like I do. Its mine forever. You'll see.
ummm... I love how my "discourse" slowly collapsed into some pathetically weighted first-person stream-of-consciousness. I gots me a case of the Mondees, what can I say... but you get the idea. This happens to every mass-media. Lets just step back for a moment, go watch <a href=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/>eXistenZ</a>, and hope for the best.
1.) The gaming model. We shouldn't forget that "gaming for the masses" effect has occurred already in history: I can imagine there was similar sentiment in the early 80's amongst old-school PC users (who were actually building and programming their own machines) when personal game consoles emerged. The elite world of computer programming being invaded by the likes of Intellivision and Atari was sure to have brought out the heralds of doom for the future of personal computing.
2.) The Television Model. Hey, do you remember when old-man Broadcast was cock-of-the-walk down Television Street? He was the best at everything he did... and suddenly those hoodlums in the Cable gang start pushing in on his territory. The audacity of these low-budget low-lives, sullying the art of televised vision! Who's even heard of a "niche audience?" Television will forever suffer from the insidious influence of Cable (except for HBO, or course... we'll always pay a subscription free for better television!).
The Internet Model: The internet was so much cooler when it wasn't the internet. I remember, in 1986, I went onto a BBC and wrote a message to someone in Sweden. IN SWEDEN! That was like A THOUSAND miles away! And I was so much cooler than all the other six-year-olds who hadn't spoken to someone in Sweden. But not as cool as I would be in 1989 when I was the only 9-year-old to download EGA illustrations from Prodigy. Definitely still cooler in 1991; f**k those AOL punks and their chat rooms, *I* had my Winsock connection to the REAL internet. You know, the one with PORN. What? AOL has a browser? Still... they have NO IDEA whats going on. They'll be stuck with AOL's web filters FOREVER, while I'm cool enough to roam the digital jungle at my whim. They'll never use the internet like I do. Its mine forever. You'll see.
ummm... I love how my "discourse" slowly collapsed into some pathetically weighted first-person stream-of-consciousness. I gots me a case of the Mondees, what can I say... but you get the idea. This happens to every mass-media. Lets just step back for a moment, go watch <a href=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/>eXistenZ</a>, and hope for the best.
ARG! HTMLLLLL!!!!!!!!
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/">eXistenZ!!!.</a>
as if you haven't seen it anyway...
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/">eXistenZ!!!.</a>
as if you haven't seen it anyway...
As far as "Casual Gaming" goes, im not too worried, especially based on what videos I've seen from this past E3. MGS4 still looks to be hardcore, as does Mass Effect, Too Human, Metroid 3, and others. I don't think that casual gaming will really make any dent in their production. Also there are also game designers like Suda 51, Peter Molyneux and Hideo Kojima that make games not to make money, but because they enjoy it. I don't think any CEO would fire them for refusing to make a casual game that they do not want to make because if they leave, that would be a huge loss of talent for that company, and a loss in potential revenues.
What I think may happen though, is that casual gaming may allow newer companies to start up easier by making low cost games that can sell well. Honestly, that is what I hope happens because it would allow new tallent into the industry easier.
What I think may happen though, is that casual gaming may allow newer companies to start up easier by making low cost games that can sell well. Honestly, that is what I hope happens because it would allow new tallent into the industry easier.
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